Prove there's a god.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#627420 May 29, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Sue - James Tabor's book - "The Jesus Dynasty" posits what you question in your post - that Jesus was of "two annointings":
a. Jesus was of holy men (Joseph's lineage)- "a holy annointing"
b. Jesus was of the lineage of Mary's lineage - "a kingship annointing"
http://www.amazon.com/The-Jesus-Dynasty-Histo...
http://jesusdynasty.com/
The Messiah was to be King, a descendant of and heir to the throne of David but will not be high priest. The Messiah will have enough work to do being Judge, lawgiver and King. The throne of David still exists today and Queen Elizabeth is sitting on it. The Messiah will be "melech ha olam, King of the universe. David reincarnated will be the governor of both houses of Israel. In response to your other post, knowledge just identifies the times we live in.

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xianity is EVIL

Walton, Canada

#627421 May 29, 2013
Thinking Man wrote:
<quoted text>
Your declaration about what science cares about is presumptive. There is plenty of evidence to support the existence of God. It's simply a matter of how we look at the evidence and the presuppositions we bring to the table with us. The nature of the available evidence is always subject to debate. Why? Because we either want to see the evidence or we don't. It's all about personal choice and the rationalizations we make to justify those choices. And while we're on the subject of science, exactly what type of science would we be looking at? Social science or hard science? Is anything that's remotely close to admitting the existence of God considered faulty and labeled as pseudo-science just because it comes close to admitting something we don't want to admit? This is the true science. The science of the mind. What do we want to admit or deny; and more importantly, why?
composition FALLACY

you have NO proof of god

care to try again?

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“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#627422 May 29, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You attached too much influence to religion in the minds of humans.
Actually, I've placed the right amount. Religion was a direct impact and deterent to allow technology to advance.
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The vast majority of conflicts throughout history have been tribal and nationalistic pursuits.

I was only commenting on how religion has inhibited knowledge. Please don't turn the discussion into something different and what it looks like - about war.

Please try to stay with the discussion.
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Sometimes religion succeeded in unifying tribes and achieving peace. Sometimes it failed.
So. What does / doesn't this have to do with "attaining knowledge"?
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Sometimes it added to the conflict.

Again - so.
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Most of the time it was irrelevant.
Religion has always been present - indirectly or directly. It is today, and it will be in the future - UNTIL it is realized it is just a PERSONAL BELIEF.
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The vast majority of conflicts was over dominance of land and resources. One nation against another.
So.
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
And moreover, you neglect the effect of war as a driver for technological innovation.

I didn't mention it, because it had nothing to do with my refutation to Sue.

Now if you want to add it to the mix, it just goes to show that religion has nothing to do with attaining knowledge.
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The advanced communications, transport, and military mechanisms we have today is a legacy of the two world wars. It was a race to dominate technologically.


Let's thank the Germans together, shall we?
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
We enjoy modern living, but loads of people fought and died so that we can have the luxuries we have today, as opposed to 50 years from now.
Okay.
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Human minds are like evolutionary processes. If things are too fine, it all gets into a rut.
Uhm - sure.....

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“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#627423 May 29, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>The Messiah was to be King, a descendant of and heir to the throne of David but will not be high priest. The Messiah will have enough work to do being Judge, lawgiver and King. The throne of David still exists today and Queen Elizabeth is sitting on it. The Messiah will be "melech ha olam, King of the universe. David reincarnated will be the governor of both houses of Israel. In response to your other post, knowledge just identifies the times we live in.
Have you read Tabor's book?

But for you assertions - can you please post a citation so I may research what you have?

Thanks!

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susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#627424 May 29, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you read Tabor's book?
But for you assertions - can you please post a citation so I may research what you have?
Thanks!
Genesis 49:10 "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come..." Shiloh is a city of Ephraim and is associated with the Messiah. Isaiah 33:22 "For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king: he will save us".

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“THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD;”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#627425 May 29, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
That sounds like a threat.
That sounded like the truth.

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Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#627426 May 29, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Sue - you'll use this passage for what reference to the topic?
FYI - in the past 150 years, we've moved out of the horse and buggy stage of life and into space stations and other technological advances (cell phone/internet/mobile devices/cars that drive themselves/etc). So, of course, knowledge has increased, it is a gimme for evolution and shows the abilities of men and how we are ingenuitive.
Now if we were to take a different stance, similar to your 'apocalyptic' reference.....and think of when religion "ruled" and Science was a step-child; religion hampered many individual's ability to excel. If religion had stepped aside back them, one could imagine, based upon the rate that technology advances, that in the past 500 years (as compared to only 150 and the rate of change)- our knowledge base would be exponetially more advanced than what it is today.
IMO - it is because of religion, that we aren't more knowledgeable than what we should be.
There was no religion against Science. There was no money and hardly any interest in Science. There was more interest in slavery than there was science. The reason being there was money in slavery. It was a real profitable business and other than religious convictions no real reason to oppose slavery. You are just another anti Christian bigot spreading hate propaganda.

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Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#627427 May 29, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
I was only commenting on how religion has inhibited knowledge.
Historically, Catholics are numbered among the most important scientists of all time, including Rene Descartes, who discovered analytic geometry and the laws of refraction; Blaise Pascal, inventor of the adding machine, hydraulic press, and the mathematical theory of probabilities; Augustinian priest Gregor Mendel, who founded modern genetics; Louis Pasteur, founder of microbiology and creator of the first vaccine for rabies and anthrax; and cleric Nicolaus Copernicus, who first developed scientifically the view that the earth rotated around the sun. Jesuit priests in particular have a long history of scientific achievement; they

contributed to the development of pendulum clocks, pantographs, barometers, reflecting telescopes and microscopes, to scientific fields as various as magnetism, optics and electricity. They observed, in some cases before anyone else, the colored bands on Jupiter's surface, the Andromeda nebula and Saturn's rings. They theorized about the circulation of the blood (independently of Harvey), the theoretical possibility of flight, the way the moon affected the tides, and the wave-like nature of light. Star maps of the southern hemisphere, symbolic logic, flood-control measures on the Po and Adige rivers, introducing plus and minus signs into Italian mathematics — all were typical Jesuit achievements, and scientists as influential as Fermat, Huygens, Leibniz and Newton were not alone in counting Jesuits among their most prized correspondents.[1]

http://www.catholicreligion.org/article/facts...

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“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#627428 May 29, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> There was no religion against Science. There was no money and hardly any interest in Science. There was more interest in slavery than there was science. The reason being there was money in slavery. It was a real profitable business and other than religious convictions no real reason to oppose slavery. You are just another anti Christian bigot spreading hate propaganda.
you have this liar down to a T! new age is a lie...

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Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#627429 May 29, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>
Historically, Catholics are numbered among the most important scientists of all time, including Rene Descartes, who discovered analytic geometry and the laws of refraction; Blaise Pascal, inventor of the adding machine, hydraulic press, and the mathematical theory of probabilities; Augustinian priest Gregor Mendel, who founded modern genetics; Louis Pasteur, founder of microbiology and creator of the first vaccine for rabies and anthrax; and cleric Nicolaus Copernicus, who first developed scientifically the view that the earth rotated around the sun. Jesuit priests in particular have a long history of scientific achievement; they
contributed to the development of pendulum clocks, pantographs, barometers, reflecting telescopes and microscopes, to scientific fields as various as magnetism, optics and electricity. They observed, in some cases before anyone else, the colored bands on Jupiter's surface, the Andromeda nebula and Saturn's rings. They theorized about the circulation of the blood (independently of Harvey), the theoretical possibility of flight, the way the moon affected the tides, and the wave-like nature of light. Star maps of the southern hemisphere, symbolic logic, flood-control measures on the Po and Adige rivers, introducing plus and minus signs into Italian mathematics — all were typical Jesuit achievements, and scientists as influential as Fermat, Huygens, Leibniz and Newton were not alone in counting Jesuits among their most prized correspondents.[1]
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/fac...

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“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#627430 May 29, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> There was no religion against Science. There was no money and hardly any interest in Science. There was more interest in slavery than there was science. The reason being there was money in slavery. It was a real profitable business and other than religious convictions no real reason to oppose slavery. You are just another anti Christian bigot spreading hate propaganda.
Yo give new age a break he's never touched a woman before.

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YTubeNews

AOL

#627431 May 29, 2013
.

Israel's KNESSET shown ANTICHRIST's ID ---

http://youtu.be/2Ay5t2-mrB4

.

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Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#627432 May 29, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
I was only commenting on how religion has inhibited knowledge.
Muslims and Science.
Major Muslim Achievements in Science
Muslims translated most of the scientific works of antiquity into Arabic.
Muslim mathematicians devised and developed Algebra.
Al-Khwarazmi used Arabic numerals which came to the West through his work in the 9th century.
Al-Razi described and treated smallpox in the 10th century.
Al-Razi also used alcohol as an antiseptic.
Ibn Sina diagnosed and treated meningitis in the 11th century.
Ibn al-Haytham discovered the Camera Obscura in the 11th century.
Al-Biruni described the Ganges valley as a sedimentary basin in the 11th century.
Muslims built the first observatory as a scientific institution in the 13th century.
Qutb al-Din al-Shirazi explained the cause of the rainbow in the 13th century.
Ibn al-Nafis described the minor circulation of the blood in the 14th century.
Al-Kashani invented a computing machine in the 15th century.
All one has to do is google it.

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“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#627433 May 29, 2013
Let's recap:

susanblange wrote:

The Messiah was supposed to be a descendant of David and heir to the throne. There are two problems with this. They trace his lineage thru his father Joseph, but claim Joseph was not his father. He is also traced back to David thru Jeconiah who was precluded from having any of his descendants reign because he was so wicked. In response to this, Christians say that Mary was also descended from David but that is not true, she was a Levite.

New Age wrote:

Hi Sue - James Tabor's book - "The Jesus Dynasty" posits what you question in your post - that Jesus was of "two annointings":

a. Jesus was of holy men (Joseph's lineage)- "a holy annointing"

b. Jesus was of the lineage of Mary's lineage - "a kingship annointing"

http://www.amazon.com/The-Jesus-Dynasty-Histo ...

http://jesusdynasty.com/

susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>The Messiah was to be King, a descendant of and heir to the throne of David but will not be high priest. The Messiah will have enough work to do being Judge, lawgiver and King. The throne of David still exists today and Queen Elizabeth is sitting on it. The Messiah will be "melech ha olam, King of the universe. David reincarnated will be the governor of both houses of Israel. In response to your other post, knowledge just identifies the times we live in.

New Age wrote:

Have you read Tabor's book?

But for you assertions - can you please post a citation so I may research what you have?

Thanks!
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Genesis 49:10 "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come..." Shiloh is a city of Ephraim and is associated with the Messiah. Isaiah 33:22 "For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king: he will save us".
How is it that you are able to use Jewish texts to define an event that never happened?

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“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#627434 May 29, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> There was no religion against Science. There was no money and hardly any interest in Science. There was more interest in slavery than there was science. The reason being there was money in slavery. It was a real profitable business and other than religious convictions no real reason to oppose slavery. You are just another anti Christian bigot spreading hate propaganda.
Ah - a name-caller, I must've hit an emotional nerve. Good - you are paying attention.

Bummer for you. Logic stand with me on this.

Your opinion of pre-1800 can be defined anyway you choose, but the facts are still there. Religion thwarted the means of invention and the progression of many arts - which we all now know that many arts exist, without religion to interfere with them progressing.

If it weren't for these "hermit-like" folks - many modern Sciences would not be in existence.

Again, knowledge of the 21st century is far more advanced than the multitudes of the Middle and Dark Ages. And far more intellectual to understand the energies of the Earth - through knowledge gained - which will eventually leave religion as an underground movement in the shadows.

Are you 'awake'?

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“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#627435 May 29, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>
Historically, Catholics are numbered among the most important scientists of all time, including Rene Descartes, who discovered analytic geometry and the laws of refraction; Blaise Pascal, inventor of the adding machine, hydraulic press, and the mathematical theory of probabilities; Augustinian priest Gregor Mendel, who founded modern genetics; Louis Pasteur, founder of microbiology and creator of the first vaccine for rabies and anthrax; and cleric Nicolaus Copernicus, who first developed scientifically the view that the earth rotated around the sun. Jesuit priests in particular have a long history of scientific achievement; they
contributed to the development of pendulum clocks, pantographs, barometers, reflecting telescopes and microscopes, to scientific fields as various as magnetism, optics and electricity. They observed, in some cases before anyone else, the colored bands on Jupiter's surface, the Andromeda nebula and Saturn's rings. They theorized about the circulation of the blood (independently of Harvey), the theoretical possibility of flight, the way the moon affected the tides, and the wave-like nature of light. Star maps of the southern hemisphere, symbolic logic, flood-control measures on the Po and Adige rivers, introducing plus and minus signs into Italian mathematics — all were typical Jesuit achievements, and scientists as influential as Fermat, Huygens, Leibniz and Newton were not alone in counting Jesuits among their most prized correspondents.[1]
http://www.catholicreligion.org/article/facts...
Gotcha - if you weren't Catholic, you couldn't be a scientist or other type. I would agree with this in some extent.....BUT.....

Cut the Catholicism 101 introductory course Lb....We don't have this or that, if it weren't for these Catholics. Yeah - Yeah. We have a lot of things by Atheist scientists also. I just washed away your position.

Promoting the arrogance of Christianity should not even be on this Topix's table.

Your stance is like this - "We would have a complete Jesus - like we know of Plato, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and many other historical figures, but we don't in Christianity, huh?

You live behind a lie, only to promote "truths" that make you look good.

Thanks for responding.

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Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#627436 May 29, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah - a name-caller, I must've hit an emotional nerve. Good - you are paying attention.
Bummer for you. Logic stand with me on this.
Your opinion of pre-1800 can be defined anyway you choose, but the facts are still there. Religion thwarted the means of invention and the progression of many arts - which we all now know that many arts exist, without religion to interfere with them progressing.
If it weren't for these "hermit-like" folks - many modern Sciences would not be in existence.
Again, knowledge of the 21st century is far more advanced than the multitudes of the Middle and Dark Ages. And far more intellectual to understand the energies of the Earth - through knowledge gained - which will eventually leave religion as an underground movement in the shadows.
Are you 'awake'?
You are not printing anything new. That is why there is plenty info on the internet and in writings which refutes these bigoted statements. Most get upset to a degree when they have to read this misinformation on the internet. Yeah the moderns know everything and the ancients were all wrong according to the moderns but many to not buy the swill you are dishing out. You can't get anywhere by spreading misinformation and making empty accusations.

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“THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD;”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#627437 May 29, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The Jewish perception of God, or Yahweh, is different to that of Allah, in that Yahweh is exclusive to the Israelites. Yahweh has a covenant with Israel and Israelites must not worship other gods, since Yahweh is apparently a jealous god.
Allah is more universal, appealing to all of humanity, not just a certain group of people.
"The Jews say: "The Christians have nothing to stand upon"; and the Christians say: "The Jews have nothing to stand upon." Yet they both have something to stand upon, they both recite the Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.(Quran 2:113)
Say: "O People of the Book! Come to what is common between us and you: That we worship none but Allah, that we associate no partners with Him, that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords other than Allah. If then they turn back, say:'Bear witness that we are bowing to Allah’s will.'" Quran 3:64
"Lo! Those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.” Quran 2:62
I do not boast either, but this is a religious discussion we are having, so I have to bring certain things up, such as prayer and fasting. Our Prophet tells us to do good in such a way that what your right hand does, your left hand must not know. I am a stranger to you, so what boasting can I do?
If you do not understand the poor and destitute, your intentions will become wasted. You will end up donating and donating and it will become a bottomless pit, because the destitute ultimately becomes used to being destitute, they become used to receiving handouts, instead of achieving the confidence to try something for themselves, start a small business and develop some pride of citizenship for himself. When we fast for a month, it becomes a sustained malnutrition, and so the psychology of a person begins to get compromised.
And moreover, destitute begin to have more desperate thoughts, a more instinctive way of thinking, a survival way of thinking, and that means their trustworthiness becomes limited. As a person who is able to help, we need to understand this and identify with this, otherwise as soon as a destitute person double crosses us in any way, we may begin to resent them and lose track of our mission to help them.
So we have to know what they need, not just give them what they want for the moment.
And Allah teaches people in different ways. Have you not ever come across any Christian who once lost their faith, and then came back to faith? And they come back stronger, more motivated and goal driven than many Christians who have never left their faith. So what is your or my opinion worth really, in comparison to Allah?
Your allah, and the God i worship and serve are not the same. Never has been and never will be.

And yes, i have met and have known Christians who have gone astray from the path of rightousness. "But" it was "not" because God purposely decieved them and lead them astray to prove a point or teach them something. That contradicts the nature of God, and makes for a foolish assumption. They gave into the temptations of the lust of the flesh. God is love and HE CANNOT LIE, God "wants" his children to follow him always, the Holy Spirit leads guids and "teaches" us what we need to know and what God wants to reveal to us, without leading his followers astray.

Why would allah do such a thing? I mean realy, if allah wants you to learn something or teach you something, why not do it with love and honesty instead of deciet?

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Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#627438 May 29, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>Yo give new age a break he's never touched a woman before.
Either that or he is in deep need for an enema being so full of Ka Ka.

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Huh

Garland, TX

#627439 May 29, 2013
psalms 23 wrote:
<quoted text>
Your allah, and the God i worship and serve are not the same. Never has been and never will be.
And yes, i have met and have known Christians who have gone astray from the path of rightousness. "But" it was "not" because God purposely decieved them and lead them astray to prove a point or teach them something. That contradicts the nature of God, and makes for a foolish assumption. They gave into the temptations of the lust of the flesh. God is love and HE CANNOT LIE, God "wants" his children to follow him always, the Holy Spirit leads guids and "teaches" us what we need to know and what God wants to reveal to us, without leading his followers astray.
Why would allah do such a thing? I mean realy, if allah wants you to learn something or teach you something, why not do it with love and honesty instead of deciet?
Who hired you as spokeswhore? You certainly are making many assertions about something that you claim is so complex that the mind of a man can not conceive of it. You Christians are weird.

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