Prove there's a god.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#626701 May 26, 2013
huh wrote:
<quoted text>BOOM! Irony meter.
At least the universe hasn't impoded in a logical paradox. I'm worried that he will say something so profoundly contradictory that the universe itself will BSOD and cause everything to disappear.
huh

Fort Worth, TX

#626702 May 26, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>While I agree that this particular poster is insane, I don't think it's psalms. It is the "troll of many socks," an enigmatic little mystery of a human being who gets banned constantly because of his/her obsession with homosexuality.
It was throne post that gave it away as psalms. I stand by that revelation.
huh

Fort Worth, TX

#626703 May 26, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Up, "down" or "around", whatever...you haven't smacked anybody yet.
Keep reading. I eviscerated your nonsense. You're just too stupid to fall down, rottencrotch.
huh

Fort Worth, TX

#626704 May 26, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Haha, keep at it.
You should check out the Why Should Jesus Love Me thread.
It's a hoot. Characters funnier even than the ones here.
That miasma of self-loathing is not for the weak of peritoneum.

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#626705 May 26, 2013
huh wrote:
<quoted text>Most murders are done in the heat of the moment where fear of punishment is immaterial. Another swing and a miss.
And, you are wrong that all humans are capable of murder, emotionally.
http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/...
Extensive studies have been done on this.
Hope on the Battlefield
By Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
Military leaders know a secret: The vast majority of people are overwhelmingly reluctant to take a human life.
During World War II, U.S. Army Brigadier General S.L.A. Marshall asked average soldiers how they conducted themselves in battle. Before that, it had always been assumed that the average soldier would kill in combat simply because his country and his leaders had told him to do so, and because it might be essential to defend his own life and the lives of his friends.
Marshall’s singularly unexpected discovery was that, of every hundred men along the line of fire during the combat period, an average of only 15 to 20 “would take any part with their weapons.” This was consistently true,“whether the action was spread over a day, or two days, or three.”
Marshall was a U.S. Army historian in the Pacific theater during World War II and later became the official U.S. historian of the European theater of operations. He had a team of historians working for him, and they based their findings on individual and mass interviews with thousands of soldiers in more than 400 infantry companies immediately after they had been in close combat with German or Japanese troops. The results were consistently the same: Only 15 to 20 percent of the American riflemen in combat during World War II would fire at the enemy. Those who would not fire did not run or hide—in many cases they were willing to risk greater danger to rescue comrades, get ammunition, or run messages. They simply would not fire their weapons at the enemy, even when faced with repeated waves of banzai charges.
Why did these men fail to fire? As a historian, psychologist, and soldier, I examined this question and studied the process of killing in combat. I have realized that there was one major factor missing from the common understanding of this process, a factor that answers this question and more: the simple and demonstrable fact that there is, within most men and women, an intense resistance to killing other people. A resistance so strong that, in many circumstances, soldiers on the battlefield will die before they can overcome it.
So far, you haven't been right yet. Tomorrow, figure out what time zones are then try Opposite Day.
That's real good but combat is only one perspective. I do believe their are domestic, extraordinary and bizarre reasons that could lead a person to murder beyond a combat role.
huh

Fort Worth, TX

#626706 May 26, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Ahahah. I knew I recognized "washingtontimes" from somewhere. It's moonie's paper. That's absolutely hilarious.
It makes a weekly World News and their bat boy seem sane.
huh

Fort Worth, TX

#626707 May 26, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Oh, right. Touche. Jeebus has truly shown himself in a wide variety of foodstuffs. Better than a photograph if you ask me. This way, christians have their photographic evidence, and they can partake of his flesh, just as he likes it. Nothing more spiritual than symbolic cannibalism.
Don't forget highway underpasses!
huh

Fort Worth, TX

#626708 May 26, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Very interesting stuff... good links.. thanks for posting.
You're welcome. I hate when Topix Christians spew their uneducated nonsense all over the Internet tubes.
huh

Fort Worth, TX

#626709 May 26, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>At least the universe hasn't impoded in a logical paradox. I'm worried that he will say something so profoundly contradictory that the universe itself will BSOD and cause everything to disappear.
Then it will have its wish of the destruction of the Earth. What a sick, twisted mind Christianity creates.
huh

Fort Worth, TX

#626710 May 26, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> That's real good but combat is only one perspective. I do believe their are domestic, extraordinary and bizarre reasons that could lead a person to murder beyond a combat role.
Yes, but you're skirting the point. Her statement was everyone is capable of killing, emotionally. That is just not true. In some cases, combat would exacerbate extraordinary and bizarre reasons and still most people would choose to die before killing. The military has done extensive studies on this and have amended training regimens to increase the percentage of those willing and trainable to kill.
huh

Fort Worth, TX

#626711 May 26, 2013
huh wrote:
<quoted text>It was throne post that gave it away as psalms. I stand by that revelation.
* the one

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#626712 May 26, 2013
huh wrote:
<quoted text>It was throne post that gave it away as psalms. I stand by that revelation.
I'm pretty sure it's the troll of many socks. Just mention homosexuality to it and watch the madness unfold. Perhaps I will be forced to agree with you, but at this point I'm pretty sure.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#626713 May 26, 2013
huh wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, but you're skirting the point. Her statement was everyone is capable of killing, emotionally. That is just not true. In some cases, combat would exacerbate extraordinary and bizarre reasons and still most people would choose to die before killing. The military has done extensive studies on this and have amended training regimens to increase the percentage of those willing and trainable to kill.
Yeah. I personally can't accept that everyone is capable of killing. I certainly am not, and I'm sure many other people are the same way. I disagree with it on such a fundamental level that the idea that I could kill someone is absurd to me. The only scenario I can imagine that could cause me to kill someone would be a life or death scenario involving myself and/or my family/loved ones, and even then, I wouldn't consider myself "emotionally capable." The knowledge that I had killed would really mess me up.

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#626714 May 26, 2013
huh wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, but you're skirting the point. Her statement was everyone is capable of killing, emotionally. That is just not true. In some cases, combat would exacerbate extraordinary and bizarre reasons and still most people would choose to die before killing. The military has done extensive studies on this and have amended training regimens to increase the percentage of those willing and trainable to kill.
Methodically killing because someone else tells you too is completely different than killing because you personally came to the decision.
That is what we are talking about here, and anyone can be put into a situation they would kill at some point or another.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#626715 May 26, 2013
Anyone hear about the american sniper named chris kyle? He had over 150 confirmed kills in iraq/afghanistan, and claimed to have killed over 250. He glorified his murderous spree in a book called "american sniper." Then, he was gunned down by a friend suffering from PTSD - he brought this friend to a firing range. Sorry to speak ill of the dead, but that strikes me as profoundly stupid.

I bring this up because I suppose he was one of the few people truly capable of taking life, wantonly so in his case. I wonder what it is that separates a mass murderer like him from "the rest of us," the rest of us being the type of people who find it nearly impossible to consider taking a life.

I know that some people will claim that he was not in fact a murderer, and I would disagree with this assertion. Killing in war is murder by another name. We romanticize it and glorify it, but putting a bullet through another man's skull is the same thing whether it happens in the US or in one of our perpetually shifting war zones. Anyways, when I say chris kyle glorified his killings, I mean he *glorified* them. He says at one point in his book that he is proud that he killed a woman who was holding her baby because she had a "worthless soul." He brags about how efficiently he takes out the enemy. He revels in his craft. A murderer, through and through - exalted as a hero by our twisted and backwards culture in which murder isn't really murder if the victim isn't "one of us," or if the victim had the misfortune of being born in a country that we deem "the enemy."

Note - I consider the guys that kill our soldiers murderers as well, so no one get your panties in a bunch. I believe that they are defending their homeland and therefore, in their mind, "justified," but that doesn't excuse the fact that they kill people too.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#626716 May 26, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Methodically killing because someone else tells you too is completely different than killing because you personally came to the decision.
That is what we are talking about here, and anyone can be put into a situation they would kill at some point or another.
I disagree. I would never, ever kill someone because "someone else tells me to." Never. For those that would, the knowledge that they were ordered to kill might ease the burden on their psyche a bit, but it doesn't change the fact that they pointed their gun at someone and pulled the trigger. That kind of thing is difficult for all but the most conditioned/indoctrinated/soci opathic/antisocial (whatever they happen to be) people.

Also, I agree that there are hypothetical situations in which anyone could be forced to kill - but that doesn't mean that they are "emotionally capable." Being physically capable of ending a life to preserve one's own is different from being able to emotionally handle it, mentally rationalize it, and ultimately justify it to oneself.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#626717 May 26, 2013
Actually, I might be wrong in agreeing with you that "anyone could be forced to kill in the right situation." If memory serves, the ultra pacifist followers of gandi's movement would often allow themselves to be beaten, sometimes to death, during their civil disobedience campaigns.

Ghandi was kind of a prick, though. I don't consider it honorable to offer yourself up as a "sacrifice" for a civil disobedience campaign, I was only offering it as an example. I personally find it atrocious that ghandi was more than willing to use human lives as a means to an end.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#626718 May 26, 2013
Sorry, aura, just realized I may have misunderstood you. It appears that you did not say that anyone is capable of killing if they were ordered to do so during war, just that anyone is capable of killing in the right situation.

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#626719 May 26, 2013
timn17 wrote:
Anyone hear about the american sniper named chris kyle? He had over 150 confirmed kills in iraq/afghanistan, and claimed to have killed over 250. He glorified his murderous spree in a book called "american sniper." Then, he was gunned down by a friend suffering from PTSD - he brought this friend to a firing range. Sorry to speak ill of the dead, but that strikes me as profoundly stupid.
I bring this up because I suppose he was one of the few people truly capable of taking life, wantonly so in his case. I wonder what it is that separates a mass murderer like him from "the rest of us," the rest of us being the type of people who find it nearly impossible to consider taking a life.
I know that some people will claim that he was not in fact a murderer, and I would disagree with this assertion. Killing in war is murder by another name. We romanticize it and glorify it, but putting a bullet through another man's skull is the same thing whether it happens in the US or in one of our perpetually shifting war zones. Anyways, when I say chris kyle glorified his killings, I mean he *glorified* them. He says at one point in his book that he is proud that he killed a woman who was holding her baby because she had a "worthless soul." He brags about how efficiently he takes out the enemy. He revels in his craft. A murderer, through and through - exalted as a hero by our twisted and backwards culture in which murder isn't really murder if the victim isn't "one of us," or if the victim had the misfortune of being born in a country that we deem "the enemy."
Note - I consider the guys that kill our soldiers murderers as well, so no one get your panties in a bunch. I believe that they are defending their homeland and therefore, in their mind, "justified," but that doesn't excuse the fact that they kill people too.
A job is a job, right?

There are people who will go to work tomorrow and systematically gut and cut the heads off of chickens so that you can grill them next weekend. Sheriffs will evict single mothers from their homes because they're too far behind on their rent. A doctor will suck a fetus from the womb, wash his hands and have chicken for lunch.

It is what it is. What's your point?

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#626720 May 27, 2013
_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
A job is a job, right?
There are people who will go to work tomorrow and systematically gut and cut the heads off of chickens so that you can grill them next weekend. Sheriffs will evict single mothers from their homes because they're too far behind on their rent. A doctor will suck a fetus from the womb, wash his hands and have chicken for lunch.
It is what it is. What's your point?
Not in my opinion. Your job does not absolve you from responsibility for any morally questionable actions you might perform during said job. Anyways, all of your examples, while certainly not pleasant, are not on the same level as a job which requires one to kill people. I don't agree with how livestock are treated, and I don't like that single mothers get evicted, but these things are not comparable to the job of a soldier. I'm not sure if I could even call these actions truly immoral - the chicken thing is debatable and depends on whether or not chickens can truly suffer; the single mother scenario is certainly unfortunate, but I wouldn't call the cop immoral; and I don't consider abortion immoral in the first place.

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