Prove there's a god.

“I speak my mind”

Since: Sep 10

It hurts to bite my tongue

#623410 May 12, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>That is not the situation we find ourselves in. I tried to turn your lava analogy into something more appropriate, but really, it's just not a good analogy in the first place. We are not dealing with a simple forked road. We are dealing with questions of life and death - there are no definitive answers either way, and absolutely no reason for me to listen to any polite suggestions as to which god I should worship. There is simply no evidence, at all, that your god exists, and the christian tactic of trying to instill the fear of hell in non-believers doesn't work on me. There is no reason for me to believe in the "lava pit," and what "evidence" you do have is the same evidence claimed by the followers of every other religion out there.
And if I were to worship any god, you can be sure it wouldn't be the god of the bible - that book is absurd, and describes a being I wouldn't even want to speak to, let alone be judged by.
Again, it was a bad analogy...I was watching Dante's Peak when I wrote it! Listen...I don't generally ever speak of Hell and by all means...I'm not trying to instill fear you...I gave the analogy in response to an earlier question and it was simply to show my perception...it was a bad analogy.

Either way, what you do in your life and what you believe is your choice. I'm not judging you. I don't mind debating evolution...or just about any issue, but I'm not on here to condemn anyone to hell or pass judgment on anyone...just to set the record the straight.

“I speak my mind”

Since: Sep 10

It hurts to bite my tongue

#623411 May 12, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>So you don't believe that non believers will rot in hell? Even if you've never said it, you are a christian, and it is therefore a safe assumption.
So, you literally just said I wasn't abusive, but now I have personally attacked you? When? In what way? What do you consider a personal attack? I have no idea how you could consider any of my posts to you a "personal attack." I may have attacked your ideas, and been dismissive about some of the more blatant misconceptions you have about evolution, but that doesn't constitute a personal attack.
LOL...I'm really gonna have to stop watching tv and reading this junk. I honestly thought I was responding to Sharkey...not you...I wasn't paying attention at all. You haven't been abusive, nor have you attacked me personally. That was a complete mistake. sorry bout that.

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#623412 May 12, 2013
timn17 wrote:
I've said this several times throughout our discussion - maybe you missed it. The best way to summarize my thoughts on the matter would probably be to say this: while it is currently impossible to scientifically prove that the mind comes from the brain, the evidence (or observations, if you don't like the E word) that we have suggests that the mind does indeed emerge from the brain. There is a clear association between the two, and in the absence of any compelling, alternate explanations, I think it is reasonable to assume that the brain does what it appears to do.
I'm workin on getting out of here for the summer, and I think we're getting about done here. You admit science has no evidence for a mechanism but you still keep trying to say that the association we have "suggests" it. Science doesn't suggest it, you are suggesting that it does. And that's ok, just quit trying to say science suggests it, because it is just as likely that consciousness has a quantum source. You are forgetting that we just as much 'association' of quantum reality as we do association with molecules. Anything that is associated with a molecule is associated with whatever is more fundamental. IOW can you take the quantum reality out of anything in existence and have anything left, at all?

So don't act like 'association' suggests anything yet. So far it is just association.

Our mind is a collection of entities unto itself. I can think without any external input.

So if we can remember "the events associated with our sense of being" while awake, why shouldn't we be able to while asleep? Our minds are active while asleep, and we have the ability to form memories while asleep. And even in the absence of any sensory input, we can still "feel" our sense of being via our thoughts - so I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to feel our sense of being while asleep if it is indeed still "turned on." There's nothing about being asleep that would preclude us from feeling our sense of being - it's not as if all activity in the brain simply stops.

I didn't say I know that it "turns off" for sure, in fact I previously said that I can't actually know that for sure - but that doesn't mean anything. I can't know a lot of things for sure. I can't know for sure that I'm not a brain in a vat, but that doesn't mean that I am. Our sense of being seems to turn off while we sleep, and since I don't have any reason to believe otherwise, I don't.

Well, if our sense of being "pops in" when an "event (dream) takes place," why aren't we lucid in every single dream that we have? If our sense of being is simply lurking somewhere in the background while we sleep, then shouldn't we enter every dream with our complete self intact?

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#623413 May 12, 2013
Oh sh*T I did it again. I collected the posts I Wanted to respond to and I thought I copied/deleted them before I posted the first one. Let me try that again.

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#623414 May 12, 2013
timn17 wrote:
I've said this several times throughout our discussion - maybe you missed it. The best way to summarize my thoughts on the matter would probably be to say this: while it is currently impossible to scientifically prove that the mind comes from the brain, the evidence (or observations, if you don't like the E word) that we have suggests that the mind does indeed emerge from the brain. There is a clear association between the two, and in the absence of any compelling, alternate explanations, I think it is reasonable to assume that the brain does what it appears to do.
I'm workin on getting out of here for the summer, and I think we're getting about done here. You admit science has no evidence for a mechanism but you still keep trying to say that the association we have "suggests" it. Science doesn't suggest it, you are suggesting that it does. And that's ok, just quit trying to say science suggests it, because it is just as likely that consciousness has a quantum source. You are forgetting that we just as much 'association' of quantum reality as we do association with molecules. Anything that is associated with a molecule is associated with whatever is more fundamental. IOW can you take the quantum reality out of anything in existence and have anything left, at all?

So don't act like 'association' suggests anything yet. So far it is just association.

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#623415 May 12, 2013
timn17 wrote:
Our mind is a collection of entities unto itself. I can think without any external input.
Yea, that's nice, most of us can.
So if we can remember "the events associated with our sense of being" while awake, why shouldn't we be able to while asleep?
Truly you are not thinking here. We *can* and do remember "events" Matter fact that's all we can remember is an 'event'. Without an 'event' happening there is no memory. A dream is an 'event' and it gets remembered sometimes but not all the time though. We don't remember every event either.
Our minds are active while asleep, and we have the ability to form memories while asleep. And even in the absence of any sensory input, we can still "feel" our sense of being via our thoughts - so I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to feel our sense of being while asleep if it is indeed still "turned on." There's nothing about being asleep that would preclude us from feeling our sense of being - it's not as if all activity in the brain simply stops.
Exactly, nothing is precluding us from sensing our being while asleep, which means we are probably sensing it, just that it doesn't form a memory so there is nothing to remember about it. I've explained this tons of times already. Why do you keep saying the same thing over and over?
Well, if our sense of being "pops in" when an "event (dream) takes place," why aren't we lucid in every single dream that we have? If our sense of being is simply lurking somewhere in the background while we sleep, then shouldn't we enter every dream with our complete self intact?
No, it's our memory that seems to "pop in", when an event takes place. Our sense of being is probably always there.

“I speak my mind”

Since: Sep 10

It hurts to bite my tongue

#623416 May 12, 2013
Huh wrote:
<quoted text>Ah, the argument from popularity, a classic logical fallacy. Suppose you published a book and then came up with a plan to stick it next to condom wrappers in a lion's share of the world's hotel's bedstands. The profit would be incredible, but, like Regnery "bulk buying" their own Ann Coulter books, the numbers would be artificially inflated.
The Bible is not sold as much as it is shoved.
If billions believe, how could it be against the odds? Your understanding of statistics is as woeful as your understanding of history or biology. Actually, your beliefs are unable to stand up to scrutiny if you specify them explicitly. They would be utterly eviscerated. Most Christians are unwilling to do that, however, because even their fellow Christians turn on them.
"Followers of many religions have looked for direct evidence of their beliefs, but systematically come up dry. And, crucially, statisticians have shown decisively that a collection of failed efforts weighs more heavily than any single failed effort on its own. The same thing happened, of course, when scientists looked for phlogiston, and cold fusion, too. Nobody has proven cold fusion doesnít exist, but most scientists would assign a low probability to it because so many attempts at replicating the original have failed. Any (adherent) is free to believe that his favorite religion has not yet been completely disproven. But anyone who wishes to bring science into the argument must acknowledge that the evidence thus far is weak, especially when it is combined statistically, in the fashion of a meta-analysis. To emphasize the qualitative conclusion (X has not been absolutely proven to be false) while ignoring the collective weight of the quantitative data (i.e., that most evidence points away from X) is a fallacy, akin to holding out a belief in flying reindeer on the grounds that there could yet be sleighs that we have not yet seen." - Gary Marcus
Billions may "believe" in Christianity but there are over 40,000 sects and schisms in Christianity and billions of decoder rings that all disagree with each other on the nature of this god they all claim to know but also claim in unknowable when cornered. There is no there there.
Whether people buy the book or read it from a bed stand in a hotel, it's apparently being read and believed. gain, there are billions of Christians. I think you're slightly confused, though. First, placing a book in a bed stand is hardly shoving it down someone's throat. If having a book in your mere presence makes you feel pressured, then perhaps you may personal anxieties that meed attended to. Next, it isn't a belief in Christianity...it's a belief in Jesus Christ, God, Allah, whoever. People interpret things differently, there's no fallacy to that.

“I speak my mind”

Since: Sep 10

It hurts to bite my tongue

#623417 May 12, 2013
Huh wrote:
<quoted text>You just condemned her.
I didn't condemn her...she made a claim about me that simply wasn't true. I wasn't condemning her...I was stating a fact.

“I speak my mind”

Since: Sep 10

It hurts to bite my tongue

#623418 May 12, 2013
Huh wrote:
<quoted text>Your religion is a cult. Only it's popularity prevents it from being labeled as such. You are not being a spokeswhore for your imaginary friend, you are being a spokeswhore for you. Christianity is the ultimate promotion of self.
My god this. My god that. Go wants you to do this. God will get you for that. I know what my god wants. You can't know the mind of a god. Blah. Blah. Blah. Ad infinitum.
As a rule, I don't spout out bible verses and I don't get on here and pass judgement. I'm fairly sure, that stating that I believe in God is neither egotistical nor a good example of someone being a spokeswhore as you put it.

“I speak my mind”

Since: Sep 10

It hurts to bite my tongue

#623419 May 12, 2013
Huh wrote:
<quoted text>"Because none of us can understand Godís ways, youíre wrong in saying theyíre wrong and Iím right in saying theyíre right.Ē Itís self-evidently absurd.
Perhaps you should read the entire conversation before jumping in the conversation and jumping to conclusions...she stated I was on here condemning people to hell, which I have not done, and I said she was wrong. Try to keep up!:)

“I speak my mind”

Since: Sep 10

It hurts to bite my tongue

#623420 May 12, 2013
Huh wrote:
<quoted text>So, what does your secret decoder ring say happens to people that don't agree with your immoral world view when they die?
Secret decoder ring...lol...I don't have one. What does your say? Come on...drag yours out and tell me how we got here. Lets hear it, HUH...If You have the answers, please...take the floor..and do tell me how you make sense of it all.
Huh

Fort Worth, TX

#623421 May 12, 2013
Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
Secret decoder ring...lol...I don't have one. What does your say? Come on...drag yours out and tell me how we got here. Lets hear it, HUH...If You have the answers, please...take the floor..and do tell me how you make sense of it all.
Goddidit is not an answer, but an argument from ignorance, a classic logical fallacy. Since there is zero evidence for gods and you could plug any magical, imaginary thing in its place, your appraoch here is childish and a massive failure. Besides, the magic decoder ring is what you clowns use to make excuses for your immoral, unholy book.

Not having all the answers is a normal position. Of course, there is nothing normal about your immoral cult. For answers, go to www.talkorigins.org .

Read. Understand. Learn. Stop wallowing in your ecclesiastical ignorance. You just appear foolish.
Huh

Fort Worth, TX

#623422 May 12, 2013
Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you should read the entire conversation before jumping in the conversation and jumping to conclusions...she stated I was on here condemning people to hell, which I have not done, and I said she was wrong. Try to keep up!:)
This is a public forum. I don't need your permission to post, capice? I addressed that in another post, but instead of answering it, you went all cult nonsense. So, again, what does your magic Buble decoder ring say happens to non-believers when they die?

Your rebuttal above has nothing to do with my post. Here it is again.

"Because none of us can understand Godís ways, youíre wrong in saying theyíre wrong and Iím right in saying theyíre right.Ē Itís self-evidently absurd.

This is what every Christian on Tooix does. They spokeswhore continually for their myth and then when cornered counter with the god is too complex for humans meme. Funny how that happens. I await your next passive-aggressive moronic response.
Huh

Fort Worth, TX

#623423 May 12, 2013
Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
As a rule, I don't spout out bible verses and I don't get on here and pass judgement. I'm fairly sure, that stating that I believe in God is neither egotistical nor a good example of someone being a spokeswhore as you put it.
As there is no demonstrable evidence for any gods and as the Christian God is demonstrably false, any claims you make about such an entity are merely extensions of your own ego. Just look at your post. I, I, I, and I'm. It's all about you spokeswhoring for yourself. Christianity is the religion of self worship.
Huh

Fort Worth, TX

#623424 May 12, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Dude, everyone knows DNA analysis is a tool of the devil. I ain't no monkey!
Not a dude but I am part Neanderthal.
Huh

Fort Worth, TX

#623425 May 12, 2013
Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, it was a bad analogy...I was watching Dante's Peak when I wrote it! Listen...I don't generally ever speak of Hell and by all means...I'm not trying to instill fear you...I gave the analogy in response to an earlier question and it was simply to show my perception...it was a bad analogy.
Either way, what you do in your life and what you believe is your choice. I'm not judging you. I don't mind debating evolution...or just about any issue, but I'm not on here to condemn anyone to hell or pass judgment on anyone...just to set the record the straight.
There is no debate on evolution. That you claim there is cheapens you.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#623426 May 12, 2013
Pokay wrote:
<quoted text> Yea, that's nice, most of us can.
<quoted text> Truly you are not thinking here. We *can* and do remember "events" Matter fact that's all we can remember is an 'event'. Without an 'event' happening there is no memory. A dream is an 'event' and it gets remembered sometimes but not all the time though. We don't remember every event either.
<quoted text> Exactly, nothing is precluding us from sensing our being while asleep, which means we are probably sensing it, just that it doesn't form a memory so there is nothing to remember about it. I've explained this tons of times already. Why do you keep saying the same thing over and over?
<quoted text>No, it's our memory that seems to "pop in", when an event takes place. Our sense of being is probably always there.
We "probably are sensing our sense of self while sleeping, we just don't remember it." Ok then, lol. We are capable of forming memories while asleep, so if we were "present" while sleeping, we should remember it.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#623427 May 12, 2013
Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL...I'm really gonna have to stop watching tv and reading this junk. I honestly thought I was responding to Sharkey...not you...I wasn't paying attention at all. You haven't been abusive, nor have you attacked me personally. That was a complete mistake. sorry bout that.
Haha ok.
Huh

Fort Worth, TX

#623428 May 12, 2013
Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
Whether people buy the book or read it from a bed stand in a hotel, it's apparently being read and believed. gain, there are billions of Christians. I think you're slightly confused, though. First, placing a book in a bed stand is hardly shoving it down someone's throat. If having a book in your mere presence makes you feel pressured, then perhaps you may personal anxieties that meed attended to. Next, it isn't a belief in Christianity...it's a belief in Jesus Christ, God, Allah, whoever. People interpret things differently, there's no fallacy to that.
Your claim was number one selling. You were proven wrong. Why are you moving the goalposts? Do you have an honest bone in your head? Your argument from popularity is a logical fallacy. Christianity is a virus passed on to those too young to have an immunity to its nonsense. It is a pox on society and is slowly dying an ignominious death.

Who stated that different interpretations was a fallacy. You are either willfully prevaricating or woefully lacking in comprehension skills. If there were one true word of one true god it would not be open to billions of interpretations. It is that simple.

And yes, putting a book in every hotel room is shoving it down people's throats. What would you say if it were the Kama Sutra or a gay sex manual in every hotel room? Your hypocrisy is limitless, spokeswhore for self.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#623429 May 12, 2013
Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, it was a bad analogy...I was watching Dante's Peak when I wrote it! Listen...I don't generally ever speak of Hell and by all means...I'm not trying to instill fear you...I gave the analogy in response to an earlier question and it was simply to show my perception...it was a bad analogy.
Either way, what you do in your life and what you believe is your choice. I'm not judging you. I don't mind debating evolution...or just about any issue, but I'm not on here to condemn anyone to hell or pass judgment on anyone...just to set the record the straight.
It's also a bad "perception." I would never allow my beliefs to cause me to think that most of my fellow humans are going to spend an eternity in hell. And I don't think it's reasonable to hide behind the "it's just my belief" shield. That your chosen religion condemns non believers to hell and not you personally does not absolve you from responsibility. You still believe it - whether you relish the thought of non believers going to hell or not is irrelevant.

But ok, I missed the dante's peak thing.

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