Prove there's a god.

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“I speak my mind”

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#622632
May 9, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>"Apologists have a need to believe in god, and this need informs their opinion on the science. If you can find me work by actual scientists, those working without a preconceived agenda, then that's another story. Their religious belief is irrelevant until they allow it to interfere with their ability to be objective."
Snipped from one of my posts. I even left in the context so you can't accuse me of quote mining. Do I need to find more posts where I echo a similar sentiment (that religious belief is not important until it interferes with objectivity) or do you accept that I clearly have no issue with religious scientists, only with "scientists" who allow their religion to inform their science?
It would be impossible for you or I to know if they had a preconceived agenda. I know many Christians who believe God used evolution as a means of creation. I'm not entirely against the idea myself. AGAIN...scientific data presented as the result of using the scientific method is science...regardless of what the scientist believes and regardless of whether it falls in line with what you or I believe. It may not be factual and may later be disproven..but that doesn't mean the researcher isn't a scientist. You can't make that determination...only the scientist can.
Bartholomew Oglethorpe

Plano, TX

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#622633
May 9, 2013
 

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Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
If a scientist uses the scientific method and has data to substantiate it, it doesn't matter what they believe. science is science and they are still a scientist. Who are you to say their faith informed their science? You won't even be objective and read the data...no...you immediately assume it's biased. what that tells me is one of two things...you're either prejudice or shallow. maybe both... Pick one.
The point is flying by your head. Try to catch it.

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

"tomorrow we win"

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#622634
May 9, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>He is a stand up comedian.
The "reverse" of homosexuality is god?
No dude, the reverse *example* is.
Substituting the word god in there made it meaningless. I would have no problem talking to my kids about religion. I'm not out there campaigning to prevent you from getting married. Not saying you do that, but some of your "brothers in christ" do.
An I out there campaigning to stop a gay marriage? No.

Am I out there trying to teach your kids that God is good and atheists are evil and stupid? No.

Am I out there plastering banners on buses saying "There probably is a God"? No.

Am I out there trying to remove your atheist symbols from graveyards? No.

Am I out there telling your daughter she cannot have an abortion? No.

What the F_CK are you talking about?!??!

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

"tomorrow we win"

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#622635
May 9, 2013
 

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timn17 wrote:
I'm not out there campaigning to prevent you from getting married. Not saying you do that, but some of your "brothers in christ" do.
No, but some of your "brothers in anti Christ" are trying to remove crosses and force homosexuality down my kid's throats.

Is that any better?
Bartholomew Oglethorpe

Plano, TX

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#622636
May 9, 2013
 

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Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
If a scientist uses the scientific method and has data to substantiate it, it doesn't matter what they believe. science is science and they are still a scientist. Who are you to say their faith informed their science? You won't even be objective and read the data...no...you immediately assume it's biased. what that tells me is one of two things...you're either prejudice or shallow. maybe both... Pick one.
Where is the scientific data for supernatural entities. I'll wait.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#622637
May 9, 2013
 

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Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
First, you didn't ever say regardless of their religion..till now.
Next, if they're using scientific methods, their religion can't inform their science.
Last, it's beyond clear...in reading your posts, that you have a serious prejudice against Christians doing science, otherwise, you'd be more open-minded to read the data and and at least attempt to be objective.
Quick question: What data and for what?

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

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#622638
May 9, 2013
 

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timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>You must have missed it, we are all hiding, every one of us. Your buddy "Truths" is just too clever. You must give us credit, operating about a thousand dummy accounts is pretty impressive. We made up our back stories with ad libs.
I really think you're 'Hiding', not that it matters much. You act like 'Hiding', and you wrote, "OK, cool" in one of your recent responses, which I only remember seeing in a 'Hiding' post.'Hiding' has used that exact line a few times before.

That's ok, we don't know what an electron is either; we know a little about how it behaves, and that electrons are assumed to all behave equally under the same conditions, just like you guys.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#622639
May 9, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I hate no one.
Try again.
Funny, you said that "homosexuals are forcing ..." you to "accept" them, that's nothing but a catch phrase from many hate speeches, and ignores all the facts and logic. Thus, if it's not hate, you are really stupid.

“I speak my mind”

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#622640
May 9, 2013
 

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timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Oh my goodness. For the fiftieth time, yes, I agree, their faith does not matter *until they allow it to matter.* Yes, if they follow the scientific method, their faith is not important. That's the point - apologists do not follow the scientific method. They start with a conclusion first. That's not how it's done. If their conclusion is "goddidit" and they search for evidence to support this claim while ignoring contradictory evidence, their faith informed their science, and they are not scientists.
Again, would you value the "research" of a devout muslim regarding the divinity of jesus? Would it mean anything to you, no matter how well he "followed" the scientific method? His research doesn't matter if it is in service of a foregone conclusion. Same with "creation scientists."
That's your opinion! Prove they conduct their science with a conclusion at the forefront. Unless they say they did...you don't get to decide that.

On Muslims, yes, I would value their opinion. why do think I read through all this foolishness. Outside of the shallow-minded posters...I've learned a great deal. I'm very objective and welcome information from people who believe differently than I do. Only idiots refuse to hear information that doesn't support their own opinion.

“I Am No One Else”

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#622641
May 9, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
No dude, the reverse *example* is.
<quoted text>
An I out there campaigning to stop a gay marriage? No.
Am I out there trying to teach your kids that God is good and atheists are evil and stupid? No.
Am I out there plastering banners on buses saying "There probably is a God"? No.
Am I out there trying to remove your atheist symbols from graveyards? No.
Am I out there telling your daughter she cannot have an abortion? No.
What the F_CK are you talking about?!??!
Your words prior to this say otherwise.
Bartholomew Oglethorpe

Plano, TX

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#622642
May 9, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think God is a piece of cardboard popping out of a book?
Dude....
Ok here, lets teach little baby kids about mom & mom. Because you think it's healthy and natural...
http://www.amazon.com/Mom-Mum-are-Getting-Mar...
"This is a wonderful book that teaches young kids the alphabet while incorporating gay and lesbian tendencies."
WTF?
Two nurturing parents is superior to suicide by centurion and global genocide.

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

"tomorrow we win"

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#622643
May 9, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
They start with the premise the god made everything, and they look for evidence to support it. That's backwards.
timn17 wrote:
Premise is not a strong enough word. Should be conclusion. Also of note, they ignore all evidence that contradicts their conclusion.
Ooooooh! A timn argument.

My money's on timn...
Bartholomew Oglethorpe

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#622644
May 9, 2013
 

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Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't prove anything....
True. Still waiting for proof of a specific god. You did confirm that presuppositional apologetics are not science.

“I speak my mind”

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#622645
May 9, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Quick question: What data and for what?
Any scientific data...if an expert scientist uses the scientific method for any research...it doesn't matter what their personal beliefs are...they are still scientists.

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

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#622646
May 9, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I don't know if you are stupid, or if you do this on purpose.
This is what I don't understand about you freethinkers, you freethought your way to:

"Take a quick stroll through a lunatic asylum.

Every single one of 'em is just as convinced as you are."

...and when asked to provide evidence for your assertion, you call me stupid.

O_o

How is it that you've come to know what "Every single one of 'em" is convinced of?

Why is it that when a theist makes a claim - EVIDENCE IS NEEDED!

But when you freethinking atheists make a claim, it's just supposed to be accepted as fact?

So either you're making shit up and know it.

OR

You know what you're talking about and can provide informed evidence.

Which is it?

“I speak my mind”

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#622647
May 9, 2013
 

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Bartholomew Oglethorpe wrote:
<quoted text>Where is the scientific data for supernatural entities. I'll wait.
spirituality and science don't mix. There will never be scientific proof of God.

“Today we pray”

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#622648
May 9, 2013
 

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timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Therefore, jesus.
So you can't answer, either?

Funny how nobody can answer what Koder called "basic biology".

Imagine that.

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

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#622649
May 9, 2013
 

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timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>"Intentionally " being the operative word here. Maybe your position is intentionally vague, and maybe you intentionally refine it to the point of absurdity (telling me I have to go back to the dawn of consciousness), but I still don't whimper and call names like a child when responding to you.
There you go misrepresenting me again. Whatever. So, I suppose it's ok to just skip the part where 'molecules became aware of themselves all of a sudden' and just assume that consciousness is caused by molecules?

What causes a molecule? Some particles? What causes particles? Some energy? What causes energy? What *is* energy? I'll tell ya. It's *something* that is a property of motion. What is 'motion'? That's real specific, huh? Yea we can tell a lot from that, huh?

Yea, unconscious molecules can become aware of themselves. You're a crackpot.
Bartholomew Oglethorpe

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#622650
May 9, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
In God We (Christians) Trust.
Don't like it? Don't use cash.
Render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's. You Allah Athiests are so insecure you had to hijack the cash against the rules of your immoral guidebook. Weird.

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#622651
May 9, 2013
 

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Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be impossible for you or I to know if they had a preconceived agenda. I know many Christians who believe God used evolution as a means of creation. I'm not entirely against the idea myself. AGAIN...scientific data presented as the result of using the scientific method is science...regardless of what the scientist believes and regardless of whether it falls in line with what you or I believe. It may not be factual and may later be disproven..but that doesn't mean the researcher isn't a scientist. You can't make that determination...only the scientist can.
Absolutely not impossible. If a scientist is trying to prove that god exists by "disproving" good science, they have an agenda. If they start with a conclusion, they are not a scientist. The scientific method does not start with a conclusion. Why do you think "intelligent design" is not considered science?

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