Prove there's a god.

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“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#622199
May 7, 2013
 

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Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
The thing is...when people suggest that substantiated scientific evidence is blatantly stupid, simply because of who said it or the site that it is written on...I have to question the character and intelligence of that person. I'll grant you...many unscientific opinions are posted on creationist sites...but unsubstantiated opinions and ideas are also posted on non-Christian sites. I don't claim to be the authority and my opinions and conclusions are sometimes just...simply wrong...I can accept that. But I'm also more than aware that there aren't any Einsteins or immortals posting on here with me. If I can have the decency to be respectful, regardless of whether or not I agree...I would hope you could the same.
If not...I'll just smile and move on and hope it makes you feel better to belittle. I hope that isn't our future on here though :)
I respect you , and like you. I however cannot stand beguile and arguments devised by the charlatan creationist crowd.
They masquerade around as if they were telling the truth, but mislead you with garbage devised by evil people who tell lies. Because most of them know they are lying when they write it.

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#622200
May 7, 2013
 

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Pokay wrote:
<quoted text>The only thing you showed me is the inability to understand a simple statement. That is not what I said. I have always believed that our sense of being is eternal; that would cover sleeping too don't ya think? You are contradicting yourself in the same post. Your last sentence indicates that you believe the sense of being turns off yet you say you have shown me that it doesn't. What a maroon.
<quoted text> Again I have to re-explain a simple statement. I never made the leap for gravity either. I said in both cases we have 'association' and in both cases we cannot say one causes the other. Although I may have said that I agree it *seems* that mass has something to do with it, that's not enough to say that it's more probable that gravity is caused by mass rather than something completely different.
Dude. Yes, you said you think our sense of being is eternal, and you suggested that the only reason we don't remember our "sense of being" while sleeping is because our "recording device" is turned off. I showed you that a sense of being can persist even when the hippocampus is damaged, ergo, your initial suggestion that we would retain a sense of being while sleeping if the "recording device" was turned on was flawed.

You said "mass clearly has something to do with gravity," but you won't extend that same logical leap to consciousness and the brain. That's my only point.

“I speak my mind”

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#622201
May 7, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Do you have any particular evidence as to why H. sapiens should be excluded from an otherwise universal law?
I do believe species evolve...I do believe we share common genetic make-up...but I don't believe we share a common ancestor just because our genetics are so similar. I believe each species is their own...I don't believe we transitioned from an ape form to man. I mean years from now you could dig up the skeletons of me and my great aunt who had severe degenerative joints, osteoporosis, early childhood polio that she outlived, and MS. If you compared our bone structures, hers would highly resemble that of a land roaming mammal and mine would not. Yet, she'd have the genetic makeup of a human. It would be easy to wrong identify her bones from a fossilized state. I'm skeptical of our data because pigs teeth have been identified and documented as early human teeth...many errors have been made....does that really make me a complete imbecile?

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#622202
May 7, 2013
 

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Sharkey wrote:
<quoted text>What makes you such an authority of how people should "perceive god"?
How do you know it isn't YOUR perception that is distorted? Why do you think "god" is some Pollyanna-like creature instead of a mean, hateful, two-faced, mysoginist, racist, snobby, egotistical, uncaring, murdering b@stard?
This PTAG thread is man's attempt to make "god" in man's image and to get other men to conform to that image that man makes of god.
Didn't claim to be an authority...but I do understand the God I believe in and He isn't all those things. You must believe in God to understand His nature.

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#622203
May 7, 2013
 

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Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL..."Oh my Darwin"....I positively LOVE it! If I were an evolutionist I would SOOO use that!
OK...I said I'd revisit the issue, only reading scientific sites...don't lose your drawers yet!
That's good.

Don't disrespect my patron saint. I don't take his name in vain lightly.

“I speak my mind”

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#622204
May 7, 2013
 
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, his stance is confusing in light of the recent discovery that we humans mated and produced fertile offspring with Neanderthals which have a different DNA signature then us.
I think this kind of established a connection to older pre-humans such as Homo-heidelbergensis, Homo-erectus and others.
Just for the record...I'm a "her"...not a "his"

As would you mind terribly providing a link on this discovery...I haven't heard or read anything about it.

thanks!

:)

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#622205
May 7, 2013
 

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Truth signed in wrote:
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No...to be honest, I'm not fragile at all. Okay...so we differ in opinion. It happens...clearly...right? I actually don't recall what you and I were debating in the first place and it takes forever to go back and find posts on here, so...we'll start over from here...cause I already know I'm gonna adore you...even if you did ATTACK me and my ideas...cause I love..."oh my Darwin"...
Okay...now on to scientists and evolution. It's possible you are right....it is also possible you are wrong. Due to the stigma placed on scientists who don't walk the straight narrow path of evolution, you have no means of FACTUALLY knowing what you say is true. If you want to debate that...it's fine...but keep in mind...you're IN the box and I'm outside. When you look at good scientific evidence and find it has been trashed simply because it was placed on a creationist website...it's a fairly telltale sign, there's some serious pressure on scientist to remain quiet about what they believe...it's just...what it is.
I'm sure that there is pressure, in the same way that there is a stigma against proclaiming the world is hollow and filled with lizard people. Some ideas are simply unscientific. I stand by my previous assertion that if there existed a legitimate disproof of evolution, it would be front page news. I, for one, would be extremely interested in an alternate, scientifically sound explanation of how we got here. The evidence being what it is, such a thing is extremely unlikely. It's pretty clear that evolution happened.

Also, no one trashes "evidence" simply because it is on a creationist site - it is trashed because of the way in which the evidence is presented and the agenda of those who support said evidence. A "creation scientist" cannot, be definition, do science. He will ignore anything that contradicts his creation hypothesis, and devour anything that supports it. That's not science. The preponderance of evidence says one thing, yet they cling to the little details that seem to support their view. Contrast this with actual scientists - you can be sure that the discovery of a pre cambrian rabbit would lead to some controversy, but no one would straight up ignore it's existence so that they could continue "believing" in evolution as it is currently formulated.

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#622206
May 7, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>At the moment, one can only attribute this to deliberate obtuseness.
deliberate obtuseness....hmmm...that would be an incorrect conclusion.

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#622207
May 7, 2013
 

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Truth signed in wrote:
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No end...the need to understand your lineage I suppose...I can't answer that.
Perhaps...time will tell.
Sure, most of us probably have at least a desire to understand our history. That does not mean that we cling to evolution simply because it explains our history. I don't have any sort of special attachment to the TOE, just like I have no particular affection towards the theory of relativity. They are both elegant and brilliant (depending on who you ask), but it wouldn't break my heart if either were proven wrong. I simply "believe" them because they are supported by the evidence.

“THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD;”

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#622208
May 7, 2013
 
Sharkey wrote:
<quoted text>Any researcher that doesn't see that the creature is flawed has no business even calling himself a researcher. It's an insult to the profession.
There's nothing fallacious about the question, unless you have the @ss-backwards belief that being self-destructive, screwed-up-thinking creatures is OK.
By your logic self-extinction is what we need!
You wrote;
How does a researcher that believes in god explain why god's creation is a flawed, self-destructive creature?

A "perfect god" and the conditions of the earth and universe with its dying stars, crashing galaxies, and light-sucking black holes does not mesh and never will. It will always remain a contradiction.
The paradox of being human will be what makes our species eventually self-extinct.
**********

I may have misunderstood what you was saying, i apologize... but as for the question. Thats a simple answer, it's called "Sin".

As for being human, the sinful nature of man was what brought forth death.

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#622209
May 7, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> I respect you , and like you. I however cannot stand beguile and arguments devised by the charlatan creationist crowd.
They masquerade around as if they were telling the truth, but mislead you with garbage devised by evil people who tell lies. Because most of them know they are lying when they write it.
I assure you...at no time will I deliberately lie. You may not agree with my beliefs or opinions, as I may not agree with yours...but I don't ever intentionally lie.

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#622210
May 7, 2013
 

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Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you may have taken that the wrong way...I know OCB...I think that's the initials...definitely did. I wasn't trying to be self righteous or rude. Simply meant, I see no harm in teaching my kids the biblical principles of love, forgiveness, and so on. Not to say you can't teach those without the bible...but I'm a Christian...I believe in agape love...which you can only understand if you believe in God and accept Him as true and real. I don't expect you to understand that...but I assure you, I meant no ill intent with that statement. Regarding my feeling sorry for those who don't believe...and stating I feel you're missing out...certainly no ill intent there either. I simply wish everyone could experience happiness, hope, and joy the way I have...through the love of Christ. Sounds foolish and unstable to you...I'm sure. I'm okay with that too. It doesn't bother me...what others think.
No matter how you phrase it, it's insulting. It's nice that your religion fulfills you, but to assert that you have discovered the "one true way" to happiness and spiritual growth, and that everyone else is in the dark, that's insulting. The way in which christians are encouraged to go forth and spread the gospel probably spares you from any personal blame for this sentiment. It's the way a lot of christians think.

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#622211
May 7, 2013
 

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Truth signed in wrote:
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Having a genetic connection is a far cry from truly being connected. I would love to think we are all connected...but I think this forum alone shows we are certainly not. I hate that your perception of God is so distorted.
Absolutely not. That we are all products of the same "evolutionary crucible," and even further, that we all ultimately come from the universe, is to me the very definition of "truly connected." You can't get more connected than that.

Isn't your god an angry, jealous type who casts all disbelievers into a lake of fire? No thanks. I wouldn't torture my worst enemy for all eternity, yet your god condemns otherwise perfectly good, loving people to hell for failing to bow to him.

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#622212
May 7, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>That's good.
Don't disrespect my patron saint. I don't take his name in vain lightly.
Lol...I'm gonna have a very hard time with that...but I'll try to refrain...just don't upset me. I do have a bit if a temper and when I see red...oh gee...I just start spouting out vile things...

:) JK

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#622213
May 7, 2013
 

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Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
I won't argue that nor will I say with all certainty that if I didn't believe in God, I might be less skeptical. But the truth is...I wasn't indoctrinated as a child to believe in God and I haven't always been a Christian. My faith is not the result of a devastating event and it doesn't come from a fear of burning in hell...Sooo...my conflict between the two may well be much different from that of others. I simply don't believe one little doubt started all this.
I didn't say your faith comes form fear or indoctrination during child hood. Nevertheless, you have faith, and this faith is at odds with the TOE (in your mind, at least).

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#622214
May 7, 2013
 

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Greens - tuf wrote:
<quoted text>I agree.
100% I agree!!!
With what?

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#622215
May 7, 2013
 

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DeAngelo of Memphis wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe U shoulda viewed the entire link, that way U could have an argument. If U have looked at all of the evidence that may support this, then maybe U coulda added something other than a dismissal which is what closed-minded individual do to keep from learning about something that is contrary to their own beliefs. I posted the link to incite a discussion with a decent person who may understand thus suppressed evidence. U apparently are not that person.
Totally right. I am not the person that's going to debate whether or not man walked with dinosaur. By the same token, I don't like to debate whether or not my computer is secretly powered by leprechauns. I also have an aversion to discussions on homeopathy and the existence of santa claus. These things might be related.

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#622216
May 7, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I'm sure that there is pressure, in the same way that there is a stigma against proclaiming the world is hollow and filled with lizard people. Some ideas are simply unscientific. I stand by my previous assertion that if there existed a legitimate disproof of evolution, it would be front page news. I, for one, would be extremely interested in an alternate, scientifically sound explanation of how we got here. The evidence being what it is, such a thing is extremely unlikely. It's pretty clear that evolution happened.
Also, no one trashes "evidence" simply because it is on a creationist site - it is trashed because of the way in which the evidence is presented and the agenda of those who support said evidence. A "creation scientist" cannot, be definition, do science. He will ignore anything that contradicts his creation hypothesis, and devour anything that supports it. That's not science. The preponderance of evidence says one thing, yet they cling to the little details that seem to support their view. Contrast this with actual scientists - you can be sure that the discovery of a pre cambrian rabbit would lead to some controversy, but no one would straight up ignore it's existence so that they could continue "believing" in evolution as it is currently formulated.
Yeah...it no doubt would be front page...as would legitimate proof of God or no God for that matter. As for whether it happened or not....time will tell.

I agree, presentation and agenda play a huge role in perception. I do think though, that preconceived ideas often play a role. I mean if already assume all scientists who believe in God are creation scientist...and you already believe that "A "creation scientist" cannot, by definition, do science", then you've already predetermined their analysis to be biased and/or useless. That's actually stereotyping...and it's unfair to the scientist. A belief in God does not disqualify one from having the ability to be objective.

You kinda just proved my point about the pressure on a scientist to maintain a mainstream evolutionary stance, regardless of his belief.

“THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD;”

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#622217
May 7, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> No my little creotard, my standard is worldwide.
It is accepted in each and every country, for those with understanding ..it was agreed in a standard of scientific knowledge.
Well listen my little Darwinnie, MY standards are worldwide as well, and they are accepted in each and every country by others like me, and they agree in one mind and one accord.
So I "AM" am saying...if you cannot agree to the WORLD STANDARDS.
I Psalms 23, will NEVER agree with you or conform to the WORLDS STANDARDS!!
Then you are in some sort of fantasy or dreaming and that you mean so very little in OUR reality the ones with understanding have agreed to. So if you want to play with knowledge then by all means ..do bring it. Or stfu.
I will most happily dream on, i say give me JESUS, and let this world go on by...

I say you can have this world and its standards, and every other ungodly thing that comes with it.

And i THANK GOD i am not in your little delusional world of what you call reality, and the ones you say have understanding. All they have is a ''self fabricated'' delusion!!!

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#622218
May 7, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Sure, most of us probably have at least a desire to understand our history. That does not mean that we cling to evolution simply because it explains our history. I don't have any sort of special attachment to the TOE, just like I have no particular affection towards the theory of relativity. They are both elegant and brilliant (depending on who you ask), but it wouldn't break my heart if either were proven wrong. I simply "believe" them because they are supported by the evidence.
That may be true of you...but many cling to evolution as a means to discredit God and hope with all hope it is not disproven. I say that because, like many Christians, they have no idea what they even believe in...yet they'll fight to the death backing it up. Those people have a need to believe, just as many so called Christians do.

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