“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#620572 Apr 30, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
See? God *poofing* in next to you is "an impossible explanation".
That's your confirmation bias right there.
I'm only going to respond to this one post.

I trust the laws of logic. If we can call anything impossible, we must start with logical contradictions. The Bible describes "God" in logical contradictions.

This is my position. See what you can do to counter it.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#620573 Apr 30, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
That's your opinion and nothing more.
I happen to agree with Tide.
If I had the Bible memorized, I'd produce the verses that contradict those he posted.

But the point is irrelevant.

A god that tortures even one person for an eternity, no matter what they did in life, isn't a just god, a merciful god, or a loving god.

If we know what justice, mercy, and love are, we cannot apply these characteristics to such a being.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#620574 Apr 30, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
If I had the Bible memorized, I'd produce the verses that contradict those he posted.
But the point is irrelevant.
A god that tortures even one person for an eternity, no matter what they did in life, isn't a just god, a merciful god, or a loving god.
If we know what justice, mercy, and love are, we cannot apply these characteristics to such a being.
I can't even bother with the god concept.

If and when the dude makes an appearance, I'll consider it.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#620575 Apr 30, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's your opinion and nothing more.
I happen to agree with Tide.
How could you? The bible directly refutes it.

Oh ya, how could I forget? Your confirmation bias won't allow you to see any other way than yours.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#620576 Apr 30, 2013
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>What was he wrong about?
Was it his claim that it's not justice or was he wrong about those who haven't heard of your Jesus going straight to hell?
You didn't read my response to him either, did you? He was wrong about it. Here's the post again.

The Bible says God will judge all people righteously. There will be a stricter judgment for people that have rejected Jesus than those who have never heard of Him.

Paul tells us that those who have never heard of the law are not attributed to sin under the law.

The people who have never heard of the law are judged by the law of God which He has placed into their hearts:

Romans 2:14-16

14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#620577 Apr 30, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm only going to respond to this one post.
I trust the laws of logic. If we can call anything impossible, we must start with logical contradictions. The Bible describes "God" in logical contradictions.
This is my position. See what you can do to counter it.
I cannot counter it. Your bias is established. Even Gid sitting next to you wouldn't convince you, what can I do? Nothin.

Perhaps you should think about the laws if thought, they present principles first, then reasoning.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#620578 Apr 30, 2013
Pokay wrote:
<quoted text>You *believe* consciousness is a product of the molecules that make up our brain. There is no evidence to support a mechanism for consciousness therefore it can only be a belief. Where's your "skepticism" on that one?
You *believe* that consciousness came into being rather than always being in existence. You have no way of knowing whether it is a quantum phenomenon that could co exist with a big bang. And even if it wasn't of quantum origin, you have no way of knowing the extent of 'existence' in which consciousness or 'life as we know it' could have been coexisting with the events we believe to have taken place.
You *believe* that what we experience is a "first order" reality and not, on some level, an illusion. And even without any of that, there is no absolute knowledge, so pretty much everything is a belief.
Besides all that, why do you guys insist that you hold no beliefs when it's so obvious that you actually believe there is no higher power. If you were truly neutral you wouldn't belittle the idea so much.
<quoted text>Does that sound like someone that lacks a belief on the subject? Sounds to me like you believe it is impossible for a higher power to exist.
Actually, "consciousness" is a collection of mental traits, resulting in the awareness of the self. Most mammals exhibit this "consciousness" all the time.

What if this life was merely the Matrix? What if we were all living in a computer simulation? How would knowing how the "outside" universe help us to survive "inside?" Would knowing the speed of light in another universe help us to develop communications equipment in this world? Would knowing how electricity works in another universe help us to develop computers and light bulbs in this world? Think on those.
Expert in all things

Redding, CA

#620579 Apr 30, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I cannot counter it. Your bias is established. Even Gid sitting next to you wouldn't convince you, what can I do? Nothin.
Perhaps you should think about the laws if thought, they present principles first, then reasoning.
Wasting time RR. They are unable to account for Laws of Logic in their world view.

First they would have to admit that...well let's wait for someone to refute my claim, then I will show you...

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#620580 Apr 30, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
How could you? The bible directly refutes it.
Oh ya, how could I forget? Your confirmation bias won't allow you to see any other way than yours.
I must admit, I have never read but little portions of the Bible, and know very little about it. I have been learning on these threads.

I notice that you learned something new, but you are overusing it: the concept of "confirmation bias."

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#620581 Apr 30, 2013
Expert in all things wrote:
<quoted text>
Wasting time RR. They are unable to account for Laws of Logic in their world view.
First they would have to admit that...well let's wait for someone to refute my claim, then I will show you...
What do you mean "account" for them? They exist, we know what they are and how they function, and we even have mathematical formulas for most of them.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#620582 Apr 30, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, "consciousness" is a collection of mental traits, resulting in the awareness of the self. Most mammals exhibit this "consciousness" all the time.
What if this life was merely the Matrix? What if we were all living in a computer simulation? How would knowing how the "outside" universe help us to survive "inside?" Would knowing the speed of light in another universe help us to develop communications equipment in this world? Would knowing how electricity works in another universe help us to develop computers and light bulbs in this world? Think on those.
It only works for him, if it is impossible to understand. I do not share this perspective in any aspect. Nothing is beyond understanding, but some things are very complicated and not explained by a single factor. There no single thing you can point to that caused the living to become conscious. But there is a myriad of things that can be shown that make the living conscious.
Expert in all things

Redding, CA

#620583 Apr 30, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you mean "account" for them? They exist, we know what they are and how they function, and we even have mathematical formulas for most of them.
You say they exist? Do you base this on scientific evidence or faith that they exist?

Are they universal in nature?

Are they conventions of man?
Anonymous

Chelan, WA

#620584 Apr 30, 2013
It depends on what proof you want. Some people have life and death experiences, or maybe visions, and this is enough proof for them. You can't prove God, and that is why for Christians, faith is so important. Technically it makes sense, because if God could be proved, then what point would there be in God?

“The Intrepid”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#620585 Apr 30, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatever, dude. It's true. Tide claimed that it's not justice that people who have never even heard of Jesus go straight to Hell.
He was wrong.
I can't remember exactly where the comment was in the bible but I remember that it was claimed that ignorance of the "Law", or Word, was an acceptable exception to the rules for gaining access to heaven, IOWs, that a person had to have heard the Word first, then, had to deliberately reject it to actually BE dead forever instead of being resurrected.

The closest quote I CAN remember is the one in John 9:16, where Jesus implied that there were a number of "other" people that he was going to preach to.

It also doesn't say that a person starts burning immediately after dying. It says we sleep until the *judgement day*.

I'm not an expert on the bible but I do remember some of it fairly well.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#620586 Apr 30, 2013
Bobndeez wrote:
It depends on what proof you want. Some people have life and death experiences, or maybe visions, and this is enough proof for them. You can't prove God, and that is why for Christians, faith is so important. Technically it makes sense, because if God could be proved, then what point would there be in God?
Then it would actually have to do something.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#620587 Apr 30, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I cannot counter it. Your bias is established. Even Gid sitting next to you wouldn't convince you, what can I do? Nothin.
You're suggesting a hypothetical scenario. If something happens to me that I consider impossible, I will seriously consider the possibility that I'm hallucinating. Since it's possible that I can hallucinate while not being able to identify if that is happening, I would never be able to place an impossible explanation above that one.

Hallucination is but one of countless possible explanations for experiences that seem to indicate that something impossible has happened.

As a rational skeptic, I evaluate evidence. I don't form conclusions and fit the evidence to those conclusions.

What would you believe is happening if you find yourself walking around without a head, yet you have all the faculties you would have if your head was still there? Would you immediately accept that you have no head, or would you consider the possibility that you are hallucinating first?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Perhaps you should think about the laws if thought, they present principles first, then reasoning.
I have no idea what you are suggesting.

“The Intrepid”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#620588 Apr 30, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually you spend most of your topix time trying to be annoying condescending, adversarial, opinionated, and hostile to any thoughts other than those that mirror your own.
Gee, I wonder how that happened....
Anonymous

Chelan, WA

#620589 Apr 30, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Then it would actually have to do something.
Personally, I believe in God. I don't practice religion or anything; if God came I'd be roasting in the front row. But think about it, even science can't back up theories of evolution and our past. It seems to me that a higher intelligence has to have created us; whether it is our God or not, that is up to you to decide.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#620590 Apr 30, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
I must admit, I have never read but little portions of the Bible, and know very little about it. I have been learning on these threads.
I notice that you learned something new, but you are overusing it: the concept of "confirmation bias."
I'm still not convinced that he knows what confirmation bias is.

He's just throwing it out there like he's fishing.

It's plain to see that he suffers from constipation bias.

“The Intrepid”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#620591 Apr 30, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You didn't read my response to him either, did you? He was wrong about it. Here's the post again.
The Bible says God will judge all people righteously. There will be a stricter judgment for people that have rejected Jesus than those who have never heard of Him.
Paul tells us that those who have never heard of the law are not attributed to sin under the law.
The people who have never heard of the law are judged by the law of God which He has placed into their hearts:
Romans 2:14-16
14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Heck, I shoulda read this first. That sounds similar to what I was thinking of.:-/

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