Prove there's a god.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#619751 Apr 25, 2013
Pokay wrote:
<quoted text>Look, you don't have 'reason number one' that a bunch of unconscious molecules can ever become aware of themselves, and we *are* a bunch of molecules.
Science is objective. Opinions and beliefs are subjective. No one is telling you that you cannot believe what you want. But science cannot take a position on this. It is unapproachable. Period.
There you go with that asinine statement again.
I don't believe anything you have to say because you say nothing.
If humanity depended on you to progress, we would be sitting in a cave in the dark saying "it's quantum".

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#619752 Apr 25, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
Hi Tide.
I gotta agree with you on this.....but....and there is always a but....*smiles*.....
How much evidence is really required to be provided for something in order for that something to be proved?
It depends on the claim, the claimant, and the person who is presented with the claim.
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
Why is the question, "what else you got?" always seems to be asked, even after a lot of evidence has been presented?
Cheers!
You'll have to be specific.

If you're talking about god claims, I haven't seen anything I could call evidence for a god.

“It is a beautiful world”

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#619753 Apr 25, 2013
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>well if you are questioning him and his actions then you must believe that he exists.
I think you have misunderstood my post. I was commenting on the original poster's humanization of his version of the deity. Which I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) is the Abrahamic god.
.
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
If you believe that he exists, then you have to ask “Would I rather have free will with the potential for suffering and pain or live a predetermined life devoid of any problems?”
With the Abrahamic god there is no free will. Omniscience is incompatible with free will. Before you jump on that bandwagon I do know that omniscience can be interpreted in different ways.
.
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>I have never had anyone respond with the desire to live a life without freedom. We all see the value in having our freedom, and I personally believe that this is how God created us.
You are entitled to your view. And I am sure you have your own interpretation of *god*. The next question that arises from your comment is why would god create us, or for that matter any kind of life? In other words "What is the purpose of life?".
.
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>If you don't believe in God, then your question is a moot point.
I am just intrigued why people have such a desire to believe in one particular deity or another (which is absolutely their right).

I just wish I had more time on here to debate this interesting topic.

You have a good day sir and I will no doubt pop in, from time to time, to see if any civility has crept into the discussion <laughs>.

“It is a beautiful world”

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#619754 Apr 25, 2013
psalms 23 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you believe God/Jesus exist?
No, I do not. But there is always the possibility albeit a very remote one and it probably is not the Abrahamic god. Perhaps some intelligence that is experimenting - IF you can term that as some kind of deity. Certainly not worth worshiping.
As for Jesus. Historically there is no conclusive evidence either way. So no, I do not think he existed (at least not like the Bible & Koran preset him).
.
psalms 23 wrote:
<quoted text>If not, we dont have much to say to one another. Meaning if you are only interested in bashing and mocking like the most here do, then i can only hope the best for you on your journey.
I guess you really do not have any answer to my question.

I wish you well.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#619755 Apr 25, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
I think he's saying that if that god exists-the god described-then the concept of free will and omniscience are logically incompatible.
Like a round square or a married bachelor.
It just does not make sense, no matter what kind of thinking you use.
Yes.

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#619756 Apr 25, 2013
God is everywhere.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#619757 Apr 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
"I don't believe that god isn't real, RR"
Nice double negative. How am I supposed to take that? You believe God is real?
Look at it this way, "I don't believe that it isn't hot, RR"
O_o
It is the best way to describe my views on the subject. Why do you always respond with stupid deflections? Double negatives are not always categorically wrong, anyway. But to put it another way - "I cannot categorically deny the existence of god, but I do not believe in him." Better? Now, you are going to say I'm not really an atheist because I might believe in god, and I'm going to tell you that you're wrong, and we will go on another merry go round ride.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#619758 Apr 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes.
Well, first of all, it's not banned, and second of all, charging people a little extra fee to make sure they *really* want those bags is not "ultra leftist," it is simply an easy way to cut down on waste and pollution. Plastic is not good for the environment, period. But I know the far right wackos think it's their god given right to punish the environment based on that silly ass "dominion" tradition.

Seriously, explain the logic that makes something as simple and self evident as the need to take care of earth "far leftist."

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#619759 Apr 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure, sure....
'ceptn I ain't schizo.
So....
Not the point. The point is that strength of belief and conviction prove nothing. We are all equally susceptible to tricks of the mind, and the only way we can combat them is to recognize that fact.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Long Island City, NY

#619760 Apr 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Spanking a child as discipline is not violence, IMO.
Striking a child, or anyone, out of anger is akin to raid rage.
I have never and will never spank my kids out of anger.
For a lawyer, you have a skewed vision of domestic violence. You sound like the typical Californian liberal.
I don't know about typical.

But yes, I am a liberal and a Californian.

What happened to you?

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#619761 Apr 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I see. To an agnostic like you, God and RFID conspiracy theories are the same.
No wonder you don't believe.
That just proves the bible is right about not all people are able to believe.
Well, they are similar, but there is one big difference - religion is socially supported, which means that it is not technically a mental illness. You are missing the point anyway. I am not saying that religious people are just as delusional as people in the psych ward, but I am saying that strength of belief proves nothing. Additionally, if you were the only person who believed in god, you would be considered delusional - the only difference between your beliefs and the beliefs of the average schizophrenic are that your beliefs are socially reinforced. That's not to say that you are delusional, as social reinforcement is very important for human beings - believing something that everyone else also believes is quite normal.

The bible "proves" nothing about me, that verse you refer to is a nice way for christians to justify to themselves why other people won't hop on the bandwagon, nothing more. You will find similar denunciations of non believers in many other religions.

And finally, I am not an agnostic. I don't know why you enjoy acting like a petty, obnoxious child and referring to me by a name that you know I don't identify with. Seriously, it's very childish to do something simply because you know someone else won't like it. That's grade school stuff.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#619762 Apr 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I see. To an agnostic like you, God and RFID conspiracy theories are the same.
No wonder you don't believe.
That just proves the bible is right about not all people are able to believe.
Also, I don't believe because there is no compelling evidence to believe. The point I was making is that the only thing that makes you not delusional is the fact that many other people believe the same thing you do, and that belief in god is socially accepted - even expected in many cultures.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#619763 Apr 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong.
Just because He knows what you're gonna do doesn't mean he's controlling what you do.
You choose.
I think I addressed that point. Even if he's not actively controlling the details of our lives, free will is incompatible with omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence. You may "choose" to "reject" god, but your fate is still known to god and has been set in stone since the beginning of time - meaning that he knows exactly how many of his creations will be doomed to hell by their "choice," and he lets it happen anyway. "Free will" is not truly free if you are merely checking off points on your way to a predetermined fate.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#619764 Apr 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you didn't read his post in detail.
"both"
"God knows what the outcome will be, both if we choose his destiny for us or if we choose our own way"
No, I did read his post, you just failed to understand both his post and my response. He said that god knows all possible paths available, and that the "choices" we make that lead us down those paths are unknown to god. It was an attempt to retain both free will and the omniscience of god, but it doesn't work because if he doesn't know what choices we will make he is not omniscient.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#619765 Apr 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
"approval"??
What do you mean?
God doesn't approve of any sin.
Do you mean "knowledge"?
Same thing in this context. Perhaps I should have said "tacit approval," but it really makes no difference. If you are all knowing and all powerful, then anything that happens, be definition, has your approval - you are necessarily allowing it to happen.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#619766 Apr 25, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
This is one of those areas where I think Christianity-ALL Christianity-is harmful.
You think we can go on wasting resources and making garbage all we want because "someday" Jesus is going to come back and fix it all.
I think that's one of the reasons our infrastructure is crumbling, too.
Because the almost overwhelming opinion in this country especially, is that Jesus is coming.
Daft.
Truly daft.
Yep. The concept of "dominion" is truly disgusting.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#619767 Apr 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Dudette....
How could one person prove to another person that God is real?
The same way one person could prove anything to another person. Except you seem to think that proof means "stepping inside someone's head and seeing what they know to be true." You "prove" something by demonstrating evidence for it. That the evidence for your god resides only in the heads of believers does not excuse your claim from the rules of evidence, proof, and logic.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#619768 Apr 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't get to define anything, OCB.
A war is not a sin because a sin is a personal act, not a national one.
Aren't national acts collections of personal acts? Obviously, not everyone in the US supports war, but the ones that do support it and take part in it can't just pass off their responsibility to "the nation." And if anything can be considered a sin, I'd say supporting or taking part in organized murder and domination would be one of them.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#619769 Apr 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You stated emphatically that "Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence, Omnibenevolence, Evil. These five conditions can not co-exist."
Again, is that peer reviewed, observable and repeatable? Or just your opinion?
I'll betcha it's the latter.
Ae you being serious? Do you not understand simple logic?

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#619770 Apr 25, 2013
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
well gee thanks tim, but since God is no respecter of persons (particullarly not of those who worship the lil grey blob between their ears), intelligence has nothing to do with it! obeying one's conscience, however, has EVERYTHING to do with having wisdom/common sense:)
Such self awareness too! Truly, a model citizen you are.

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