Prove there's a god.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#618741 Apr 21, 2013
_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
I spent some time in the Yale-New Haven Psychiatric Hospital.
Where did you spend your time?
Ahahah.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#618742 Apr 21, 2013
_-Alice-_ wrote:
<quoted text>
I spent some time in the Yale-New Haven Psychiatric Hospital.
Where did you spend your time?
Don't go too hard on him. I've seen him claim that atheists follow him around the site, giving him "bad judgeits."

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#618743 Apr 21, 2013
Pokay wrote:
<quoted text>and
<quoted text>You guys are really flipping me out. If your boss IANS was here he would smack you and Aura and then fire you. How can anyone possibly know if a cat is self aware or has a sense of self? That is completely a subjective phenomenon. No one knows if I have a sense of being. But you assume I do sine you do and we are all humans. Heck everyone else in the world could be aliens or angels and this life could just be "my test". I don't believe that but it could be true for all I know. Get it? YOU really think animals have no sense of self? They might not but science cannot approach that.
My boss IANS? You really are deranged. IANS is in charge of himself, and as soon as he wants to instruct me to do anything, he better have a check in his hand. And when anyone goes to smack me they better be prepared to do their worst, for I will do mine.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#618744 Apr 21, 2013
Pokay wrote:
<quoted text>WTF are you going on about? If it would make you feel better then we can say life came into being first and then awareness came into being subsequently (according to your speculation). It doesn't matter when it happened, numbnuts, fact is it happened. And if it happened, then we obviously went from a state of 'non-awareness' to 'awareness'. Go read the post I addressed to Aura; same answer, that is, unless you say you believe in an eternal consciousness and I Know that's not true.
Ok, then be more clear. When you say "when the first cells became conscious during abiogenisis," it certainly seems like you are saying "the first cells became conscious during abiogenisis."

And yes, I agree. Awareness had to start at some point. But I think that you are still conflating awareness with a sense of self. Anything that has a sense of self is aware, but not everything that is aware necessarily has a sense of self.
Expert in all Things

Redding, CA

#618745 Apr 21, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
...they follow the instructions of information DNA has them perform and this or even the information is not conscious.
Oooooooooooops! Now did you really mean to say this?

"instructions of information"
Expert in all Things

Redding, CA

#618746 Apr 21, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, but the foundations necessary for awareness could have been laid long before awareness was achieved.
So you are claiming there are necessary foundations?

What would they be?

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#618747 Apr 21, 2013
Pokay wrote:
Awareness is a finished product. It can't be called 'awareness' until it is aware. Anything that is created cannot be called a finished product until it is done. So, there is an instant in time when a finished product is realized. Awareness, according to you ignoramuses, evolved from groups of molecules. So, there is a moment in time when 'awareness' was realized. Even if it was the tiniest finite amount.
Atheist motto in this case :
When there are no holes just one yourself out of nothing. You guys are really talented making something out of nothing. Here I thought it was impossible
So? Of course there was a point in time where awareness was achieved. Again, I think you are conflating awareness with self awareness. It's not as if we think the first creature possessing awareness thought to itself cognito ergo sum at the moment it became aware.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#618748 Apr 21, 2013
psalms 23 wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL, forgive me for laughing..
But it was you who spoke about "all" the things that author said, was only "concepts" of my/his mind..
"pot calling the kettle black"!
And here you have your own concept and your mentor's concept of a 4th demension, a theory based only on a ''mans'' coined term. to which he cant prove to be true.
In mathematics, four-dimensional space ("4D") is an abstract concept derived by generalizing the rules of three-dimensional space.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-dimensional...
In 1908, Hermann Minkowski presented a paper[6] consolidating the role of time as the fourth dimension of spacetime, the basis for Einstein's theories of special and general relativity.[7] But the geometry of spacetime, being non-Euclidean, is profoundly different from that popularised by Hinton. The study of such Minkowski spaces required new mathematics quite different from that of four-dimensional Euclidean space, and so developed along quite different lines. This separation was less clear in the popular imagination, with works of fiction and philosophy blurring the distinction, so in 1973 H. S. M. Coxeter felt compelled to write:
Little, if anything, is gained by representing the fourth Euclidean dimension as time. In fact, this idea, so attractively developed by H. G. Wells in The Time Machine, has led such authors as John William Dunne (An Experiment with Time) into a serious misconception of the theory of Relativity. Minkowski's geometry of space-time is not Euclidean, and consequently has no connection with the present investigation.
—H. S. M. Coxeter, Regular Polytopes[8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Euclidean
Unless you happen to be all sciency. Actually general relativity and about all science and measurement is centered around the concept of space/time. I find it impossible to get a grip on reality without it. The measure of space and time is inescapable in science these days. You must have been born about 200 years too late?

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#618749 Apr 21, 2013
Expert in all Things wrote:
<quoted text>
But your belief has no real evidence, so why is your choice any better?
What belief would that be?

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#618750 Apr 21, 2013
psalms 23 wrote:
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> You do realize these concepts, and yes they are concepts.
Were entirely constructed by the limitations of your own capacity and fabricated in your mind, and that however these constraints were fashioned in your own mind. They do not necessarily reflect what really must happen , or indeed what really happens but in fact..... are constructs of your own device. Reality can be different.. and you do not know, these are the things we can count on.
..Had to repost this..
Everything you said to me in this post, can be directed back to you and your own concepts..
So again, what problem did you have with that analogy??? HMMM
That it was a puzzlement less any real modern scientific analysis and did not even consider nothing can exist before time, at least T=0+1 space/time matter/energy came into existence not before. There could not be a big box of nothingness before time.... is all.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#618751 Apr 21, 2013
psalms 23 wrote:
<quoted text>
And most of em say they are open to reason and logic.. Ive yet to see any "evidence" of that.
When faced with what you have shown them, they assume the position and begin to fill in the blanks with indoctrination.
What have we been "shown?" We have been repeatedly presented with a god of the gaps argument labeled with "quantum consciousness." I am not "indoctrinated" into any belief system, like you, all I ask for is evidence. Not hand waving, not "you can't prove it's not," and not "there might be something more." I have nothing against the notion of quantum consciousness as a concept - I am thankful that I am conscious and do not care one way or the other how it is I am self aware. I just don't buy pokays assertion that "we can't make any claims whatsoever about consciousness until we understand it's underlying mechanism." I do agree with him that until we know the "how" of consciousness that we cannot know for sure whether the correlation between the brain and the conscious mind means that the brain causes the conscious mind. However, I don't agree that this correlation is meaningless until we fully understand consciousness. That's like saying that we can't acknowledge the correlation between gravity and mass until we know how gravity works.
Expert in all Things

Redding, CA

#618752 Apr 21, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>What belief would that be?
Why are you asking me what your belief is, don't you know?

We got a real sharp one here...wow

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#618753 Apr 21, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Get out of here with your "lists" of your "evidence."
Seriously though, I think most people just naturally anthropomorphize their pets - assuming that since *they* personally have self awareness, their pet must have it too. It's an easy assumption to make. When a dog nearly explodes with happiness when you come home, it's easy to make assumptions like that.

I actually have a problem with the defining of self aware, and didn't write the list. But that is a list of is what animals people consider "self aware". I somewhat personally consider anything that
knows it is hungry and needs to eat or knows it has to use the bathroom somewhat "self aware".
Expert in all Things

Redding, CA

#618754 Apr 21, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Unless you happen to be all sciency. Actually general relativity and about all science and measurement is centered around the concept of space/time. I find it impossible to get a grip on reality without it. The measure of space and time is inescapable in science these days. You must have been born about 200 years too late?
There is no measure of space. Space is the (relationship)between set points.

Here is another fraud and an idiot.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#618755 Apr 21, 2013
Expert in all Things wrote:
<quoted text>
Oooooooooooops! Now did you really mean to say this?
"instructions of information"
That is what DNA is to us, a set of instructions. And yes I really meant to say it.
Expert in all Things

Redding, CA

#618756 Apr 21, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> That is what DNA is to us, a set of instructions. And yes I really meant to say it.
Then how do you account for the origin of these instructions?

Check Mate!

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#618757 Apr 21, 2013
Expert in all Things wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are claiming there are necessary foundations?
What would they be?
Can a rock be conscious?

That should answer your first question.

And I can only guess as to what the "foundations" of consciousness are, but as I said before, the framework for consciousness probably began with simple cells "learning" to share useful bits of information between themselves. Perhaps cells close to food would alert other nearby cells with a simple signal. Perhaps this evolved into more complex behaviors over time. I don't know.
Expert in all Things

Redding, CA

#618758 Apr 21, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Can a rock be conscious?
That should answer your first question.
And I can only guess as to what the "foundations" of consciousness are, but as I said before, the framework for consciousness probably began with simple cells "learning" to share useful bits of information between themselves. Perhaps cells close to food would alert other nearby cells with a simple signal. Perhaps this evolved into more complex behaviors over time. I don't know.
Yeah, that's real funny.

Now what foundations are you claiming?

Or you just make up BS and hope you are not called out?

Found another fraud!!!

Check mate!!! Bye Bye now...

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#618759 Apr 21, 2013
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
Ummm...... I hadn't considered that.....
Speaking of government involvement....
I just found out that plastic shopping bags are banned here in Santa Cruz, Monterrey and upper Nor Cal... What a difference fro So Cal. They are also charging .25 cents per bag as a government fee...
I guess they use re usable cloth bags up here but I was thinking, couldn't fabric bags harbor dangerous bacteria if not washed? I guess they're willing to take that chance.... I guess i understand saving the seals and all but it still doesn't seem right.....
I doubt that's anything to worry about. We have to pay for bags here too in MD, or at least my part of MD. I think it's a good thing, I've cut down on using bags a lot since they started charging and many other people have too - which means a lot less plastic in the environment. It's not really the government trying to make money off the bags, it's them trying to dissuade people from using them in the first place.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#618760 Apr 21, 2013
Sweetie-Pie wrote:
<quoted text>
Dear God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =HWoTET9BgF4XX
I like the original better. Did you know it's a cover of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

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