Prove there's a god.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#616277 Apr 14, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
People make mistakes. Even good people. I went to jail and I consider myself a good, law abiding person. I messed up.
But I never repeated my actions.
I can't consider career convicts as Christians. They're lying to themselves and lying to God.
You can't know that. Being a criminal doesn't necessarily make you a bad person, either. It might, but you can't assume that everyone with a long rap sheet is a bad guy.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#616278 Apr 14, 2013
Pokay wrote:
<quoted text>Ask Aura, he thinks consciousness is defined.
What's undefined about "mechanism"? You don't know what humans mean by that?
Are you asking how exactly consciousness arises from the physical processes of the brain?

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#616279 Apr 14, 2013
St Black Pope wrote:
<quoted text>Your position is that your defense is that there is nothing. So, you have to prove that there is nothing. You are the one making the claim that there is nothing. The fact is, the absence of something is nothing, so you are saying that there is nothing. Once you make the claim that there is nothing, then your statement must be proven. Like your position that the universe is 17 billion years old, but you say this then offer no proof that the universe is not really 170 billion years old, 17 million years old or simply 10,000 years old. You offer no proof of anything. So, it is your belief position that is invisible unicorn like.
My position is not that there is nothing. Stop rambling.
Religion - A Delusion

Titusville, FL

#616280 Apr 14, 2013
In spite of many scientific studies attempting to show that prayer works -- nothing.

Maybe we shouldn't pray for ourselves, but rather all of mankind. Maybe then the words proclaimed over and over in the Bible will come true!

Let us pray......

"Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen."

Will anything happen?

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#616281 Apr 14, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Are you asking how exactly consciousness arises from the physical processes of the brain?
So that's it, you guys don't know what "mechanism" means. Let me explain. When we take a drug and it makes us hallucinate we wonder what the mechanism of the affect is. Well, say, we, for example, come up with a theory that the drug alters the local concentrations of acetylcholine in certain nerve synapses and causes the signals to transmit at different rates even within any given second of time.

So take consciousness. We experience it but what exactly is it? Do molecules get together and do a jig dance and walla there is consciousness? I mean molecules are considered unconscious, so how can nay number of them, no matter how "organized" they become, give rise top some sort of "consciousness"?

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#616282 Apr 14, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no strategy agenda or bias against it, it's because
the quantum mind hypothesis is a bit like saying what happens outside the universe, or happens in another universe.[QUOTE]No it is not like that. There is a quantum reality that is the core of EVERY larger (molecular) reality. Where do you think the core of your toilet seat is, in another universe?
[QUOTE]
There is no possible way of determining if the hypothesis is correct.
Ditto for any molecular hypothesis. So quit the BS.
But the one thing that absolutely does not fit is temperature, quantum effects are near absolute zero, and brains are slightly warmer than that.
Dang you are dense. A molecule is composed of sub atomic particles (quantum reality), and that means a brain is composed of molecules which are composed of sub atomic particles. Gee maybe your brain is at absolute zero but most brains are not. More absolute bullsh*t from the BS camp.

Does an electron not oscillate at a higher frequency when the temperature is elevated? All that existed at the Big Bang was a quantum reality because it was too hot for anything else to exist. What created the temperature if there was no matter?
There is the possibility of some type quantum effect not yet known, but this is complete conjecture.
Ditto for molecular
On the other hand Neuroscience has definitive measures and techniques as well as real world machines such as MRI and scanning electron microscopes to study the brain with. It doesn't have all the answers but it has real science to back it up. It is a wide field with many specializations.
I'm not asking for what instruments they use in neuroscience. I'm asking for a molecular mechanism for consciousness that is more plausible than a quantum one. IT doesn't matter how many machines or "real science" you have working on it, the FACT is that you have nothing yet. Admit it.

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#616283 Apr 14, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
But these are particular to the discussion.
Cellular neuroscience Cellular neuroscience is the study of neurons at a cellular level including morphology and physiological properties.
And what has it come up with for a mechanism to molecular consciousness?
Clinical neuroscience Cognitive neuroscience is the study of biological and neuropsychological substrates underlying cognition with a specific focus on the neural substrates of mental processes
Computational neuroscience Computational neuroscience is the study of brain function in terms of the information processing properties of the structures that make up the nervous system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience
And what has it come up with for a mechanism to molecular consciousness?
I'm actually a follower of some of Penrose's ideas, but think he is out there with some of it.
Here is a very relevant study.
http://www.klab.caltech.edu/~koch/crick-koch-...
You guys are pitiful, really. This quote from your article says it all and backs up what I have been saying the whole time.
"We assume that when people talk about 'consciousness,' there is something to be explained. While most neuroscientists acknowledge that consciousness exists, and that at present it is something of a mystery, most of them do not attempt to study it, mainly for one of two reasons:

(1) They consider it to be a philosophical problem, and so best left to philosophers.

(2) They concede that it is a scientific problem, but think it is premature to study it now."

Did you see that?
From the article, they think it is *premature* to study it now!
How the heck can they have a plausible mechanism for consciousness before they even study it? What they are saying is there is no good way to even study it. It is painfully obvious that there is no plausible mechanism for consciousness yet hypothesized. Yet you keep on with this bullsh*t. Maybe you don't even read any of what I write and therefore have no idea what I am really asking for?

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#616284 Apr 14, 2013
AuraMytha wrote:
But the one thing that absolutely does not fit is temperature, quantum effects are near absolute zero, and brains are slightly warmer than that.
One can argue that 'the sub atomic (quantum) reality that makes up the matter that in turn makes up our brains' does not, in itself, impart temperature, but who is to say that temperature is required for consciousness when we haven't the faintest idea what consciousness is? That is a whole nother argument and it's besides the point because a quantum reality DOES compose EVERY reality that we assume we know of. And if it composes the matter that composes our brain then it is a part of our brain and as such can be the core of consciousness no matter what you say.

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#616285 Apr 14, 2013
Even if reality was such that matter was independent of a quantum foundation, we still couldn't say that consciousness was necessarily emergent of 'otherwise unconscious' matter.

Is an innocent person guilty because they find themselves at the scene of a crime at the wrong time?

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#616286 Apr 14, 2013
Pokay wrote:
<quoted text> Ditto for any molecular hypothesis. So quit the BS.
<quoted text>Dang you are dense. A molecule is composed of sub atomic particles (quantum reality), and that means a brain is composed of molecules which are composed of sub atomic particles. Gee maybe your brain is at absolute zero but most brains are not. More absolute bullsh*t from the BS camp.
Does an electron not oscillate at a higher frequency when the temperature is elevated? All that existed at the Big Bang was a quantum reality because it was too hot for anything else to exist. What created the temperature if there was no matter?
<quoted text> Ditto for molecular
<quoted text> I'm not asking for what instruments they use in neuroscience. I'm asking for a molecular mechanism for consciousness that is more plausible than a quantum one. IT doesn't matter how many machines or "real science" you have working on it, the FACT is that you have nothing yet. Admit it.

To the contrary it is you that have nothing , except a name for something you have no idea what it even is. Even with quantum effects proven to take place in the brain, it still would only show a method and not how that process was initiated. The problem you ask to answer is equal to saying that gravitons cause gravity.
Then asking how they cause gravity, not only can you not find a graviton, making the problem harder... you are still asking how.

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#616287 Apr 14, 2013
I should rewrite this answer even though it doesn't change the fact that there is no plausible mechanism for consciousness.
I wrote:
What created the temperature if there was no matter?
I'll correct myself before someone else does. I know the theory goes that matter was compressed and that temperature was created when the energy was released, so that's where the temp came from, theoretically anyway. I should not have even said anything about that as it does not change the discussion.

The fact that Aura even brought that into the discussion is irrelevant when there is no specific hypothesis for consciousness that is at all plausible.

“Truth is beyond wavelength ”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#616288 Apr 14, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
To the contrary it is you that have nothing , except a name for something you have no idea what it even is. Even with quantum effects proven to take place in the brain, it still would only show a method and not how that process was initiated. The problem you ask to answer is equal to saying that gravitons cause gravity.
Then asking how they cause gravity, not only can you not find a graviton, making the problem harder... you are still asking how.
You're not making sense. Or understanding what I am saying.

I am not trying to tell you that there is a plausible mechanism for quantum consciousness. I am trying to tell you that it is as plausible as any molecular one at this point.

I have to go, hopefully you will see where I quoted your link where it was said that scientists admit that it is premature to even study consciousness. What does that tell you there, big guy?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#616289 Apr 14, 2013
Stan-an-Ollie wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong.
They are Not ALL stackedUP in cities. A couple of cities = Yes.
Most cities = No.
There's an awful lot of room between Texas and the Rocky Mountains. 7.23 Billion humans could fit in there comfortably. Each with a potato patch and a hole in the ground.
California (which has a coastline that will eventually fall into the sea) has 25 - 30+ million people, but there's a whole lot of room for millions more.
If you had ever travelled, you would see the tremendous amount of room unused in China which has 1.5 Billion humans, and likewise in India which has 1.2 Billion people.
As you can see,'Most' of the US of A is empty having only 300 million people.
Your numbers don't addUP.
Meanwhile, put some new batteries in your calculator. Our pencils have plenty of lead.'Get the lead out' of your arse.
Go Figure.
Here's an interesting link:

http://one-simple-idea.com/Environment1.htm

Every person on earth could have 5 acres of land, which is actually much more than I thought.

But if you look at arable land, each person could have 1 acre, which is still more than I originally thought.

But population is growing and arable land is shrinking. Even with 1 acre each, growing enough vegetables to feed yourself and also maintain a source of animal protein would be unsustainable.

You might be able to survive-maybe-for a lifetime on that, but it would be at near starvation levels. Factor in the personal energy required to maintain that level for a lifetime, and it becomes realistically impossible.

And with various religious groups, the catholic chief among them, fighting birth control, humans would face certain extinction.

Mass food production and preservation is critically necessary for civilization to survive.

But then, I guess the christians would just see the extinction of the human race as the journey to the promised heaven, right?

Feeding time is over.

Time to starve the troll.
feces for jesus

Bellmore, NY

#616290 Apr 14, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Really?
So the Canadians, Norwegians and Chinese are uneducated?
Norway:

"only 20% of Norwegians say that religion occupies an important place in their life"

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#616291 Apr 14, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude, I just about own the Santa Ana courthouse.
When I arrive, it's bows and curtsies.
You're like Lord Catcher?

Cool!

What about 15 years ago?(that's when it all went down for me)

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#616292 Apr 14, 2013
Pokay wrote:
<quoted text>So that's it, you guys don't know what "mechanism" means. Let me explain. When we take a drug and it makes us hallucinate we wonder what the mechanism of the affect is. Well, say, we, for example, come up with a theory that the drug alters the local concentrations of acetylcholine in certain nerve synapses and causes the signals to transmit at different rates even within any given second of time.
So take consciousness. We experience it but what exactly is it? Do molecules get together and do a jig dance and walla there is consciousness? I mean molecules are considered unconscious, so how can nay number of them, no matter how "organized" they become, give rise top some sort of "consciousness"?
Which is exactly what I just said. And I don't know exactly what it is. You're asking a question that doesn't really have an answer at this point. That doesn't mean that it's reasonable to wildly speculate on the nature of consciousness. I mean, it *could be* that there are little pixies inside my head turning gears and levels, but should we really take that query seriously?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#616293 Apr 14, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
And I'm on the coast, 100 miles north of San Diego and maybe 40 miles west of the two Christians.
Lol, the two Christians in SoCal?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#616294 Apr 14, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> LOL ok But San Diego isn't to far from LA . Or Oceanside where I'm from.
Oceanside's a long way away.

In a galaxy far, far away...

I installed many a window in your neck o the woods.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#616295 Apr 14, 2013
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
I actually work right down the street from RR
Ya but that's because my pimp kicked you off of my corner...

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#616296 Apr 14, 2013
feces for jesus wrote:
<quoted text>
Norway:
"only 20% of Norwegians say that religion occupies an important place in their life"
Religion in china doesn't seem all that big a deal either. Especially christianity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Chin...

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