Prove there's a god.
Lady Evil

Hinsdale, MA

#605083 Feb 23, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You think Christianity *caused* Mcveigh & Lanza to do what they did?!
Some would say subversion and decadence. Some may also say this is a biproduct of Judas' influence upon society. I'm not so sure though.
It's not like they puppet our govt, print our dough, control our media, gaydays@disney, manipulate our governing process through aipax, foolyhoot, fight their wars etc.
NO! They have no influence or persuations here! Anywhere!
It's all Christains fault

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#605084 Feb 23, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
<quoted text>Atheists and the word "faith". Atheists understand thoroughly the word faith, they understand the meaning and how it's used. Atheists just like the rest of us use faith everyday in one way or another, whether in people or things it's a fact that we all use it everyday. Since atheists use it for other purposes, then why do they not use it to believe in God? The atheists believe their must be proof, facts that substantiate without a doubt something exsists or not. Faith which is used daily is proven to work when one uses it over and over in their lives or they wouldn't continue to use it. An example of faith for instance would be like having faith in a service such as your phone carrier you use, as long as that service runs smoothly you're happy, when it starts to cause you headaches you then have no faith in it as a good phone service, so you change phone carriers. Having faith in people is another way we demostrate the use of faith. Let's say for instance you use a doctor who has always taken the time to listen to you and showed a level of compassion you became use to expecting, and then you noticed his attitude and his lack of paying attention changed and you felt uncomfortable with him displaying this type of behaviour over the course of the last 5 visits, so now you have lost faith in him and you now seek another doctor.. Atheists must have scientific proof that God exsists before they will believe, but they have no problem believing in people or things through faith but refuse to allow themselves to utilize faith to believe in God. God has made it perfectly clear time after time that no calculation or deciphering or scientific testing will ever prove of his exsistence, again time after time God has made it clear that no testing by a man made method will ever prove of him exsisting.
You repeated most of the previous post. It didn't work for me the first time nor does it now. The things you mentioned that we have faith in our day to day lives are actual things that we know exist or did exist, because we experienced them before we lost that faith, such as the doctor example. We have concrete proof to justify our faith or losing faith.

We have no concrete proof of God, and your using the 'words of God' to tell us why we 'should' have faith is a "begging the question" logical error used on this thread, so far, many thousands of times. That logic is not an argument for God. We can't say that we have faith in God existing because God tells us we must have faith.

Besides every written word, and every spoken word about a god, that you have internalized in your life, came from other men. Nothing that has entered your brain about the God you believe in today came to you independently of the hand of man. If man had still not developed the ability to speak or write, you would have none of the knowledge of a god, that you claim is true.

Even in the remotest chance that the Bible was actually the "Word of God", which can easily be refuted today, we all needed written or spoken words of man, to pass those words on to us.

What you are saying is God exists, because God wrote or inspired His word in the Bible, and since He did that it must be true. That is man-made argument, and fails every logic exam, and the discipline of logic is a creation of man too.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#605085 Feb 23, 2013
Forum wrote:
Jesus is.
Yes we know jesus is invented. Just like all the other myths about him that came thousands of years before your region plagiarized your religions "version" of him. This is well documented. You can't fight history. What isn't documented is you admitting these facts. That makes you a fool and a slave. Congratulations.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#605086 Feb 23, 2013
TheGoodAndTheStupid wrote:
Most Americans survive very well and have plenty more than the most basic of necesssities such as food on the table you nitwit.
Boy are you ever ignorant. Children go to bed hungry in this country everyday. Stick your head in the sand some more. You are probably the best proof that your "god" does not exist because if he did then you would be experiencing the same starvation and poorness that a growing number of people in America are. Oh and it's 'necessities' not necesssities you moron.

"The Census Bureau released a depressing statistic Thursday: 46.2 million people in America fell below the poverty line last year. One in five children are poor. "

http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/20/on-...

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/going-hun...

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#605087 Feb 23, 2013
scaritual wrote:
Is "Colt 45s" some kind of code for mouth?
In his case it is.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#605088 Feb 23, 2013
Lady Evil wrote:
<quoted text>
Some would say subversion and decadence. Some may also say this is a biproduct of Judas' influence upon society. I'm not so sure though.
It's not like they puppet our govt, print our dough, control our media, gaydays@disney, manipulate our governing process through aipax, foolyhoot, fight their wars etc.
NO! They have no influence or persuations here! Anywhere!
It's all Christains fault
Lol, that IS the atheist stance.

Blame God for all the evils.

Bless mankind for all the good.

*rubs temples*

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#605089 Feb 23, 2013
Mylan wrote:
Just like all the other myths about him that came thousands of years before your region plagiarized your religions "version" of him. This is well documented.
Her, for such a well documented fact, said documents are impossible to find.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#605090 Feb 23, 2013
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>Boy are you ever ignorant. Children go to bed hungry in this country everyday. Stick your head in the sand some more. You are probably the best proof that your "god" does not exist because if he did then you would be experiencing the same starvation and poorness that a growing number of people in America are. Oh and it's 'necessities' not necesssities you moron.
"The Census Bureau released a depressing statistic Thursday: 46.2 million people in America fell below the poverty line last year. One in five children are poor. "
http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/20/on-...
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/going-hun...
Then what are you doing?? Turn off your damn computer and go out & feed some hungry kids!

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#605091 Feb 23, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
You repeated most of the previous post..
There is plenty of proof, manuscripts, Archaeological findings, eyewitnesses and more.
Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability
by Matt Slick
The New Testament is constantly under attack and its reliability and accuracy are often contested by critics. But, if the critics want to disregard the New Testament, then they must also disregard other ancient writings by Plato, Aristotle, and Homer. This is because the New Testament documents are better-preserved and more numerous than any other ancient writings. Because they are so numerous, they can be cross checked for accuracy... and they are very consistent.
There are presently 5,686 Greek manuscripts in existence today for the New Testament.1 If we were to compare the number of New Testament manuscripts to other ancient writings, we find that the New Testament manuscripts far outweigh the others in quantity.2
Author
Date
Written
Earliest Copy
Approximate Time Span between original & copy
Number of Copies
Accuracy of Copies
Lucretius
died 55 or 53 B.C.
1100 yrs
2
----
Pliny
61-113 A.D.
850 A.D.
750 yrs
7
----
Plato
427-347 B.C.
900 A.D.
1200 yrs
7
----
Demosthenes
4th Cent. B.C.
1100 A.D.
800 yrs
8
----
Herodotus
480-425 B.C.
900 A.D.
1300 yrs
8
----
Suetonius
75-160 A.D.
950 A.D.
800 yrs
8
----
Thucydides
460-400 B.C.
900 A.D.
1300 yrs
8
----
Euripides
480-406 B.C.
1100 A.D.
1300 yrs
9
----
Aristophanes
450-385 B.C.
900 A.D.
1200
10
----
Caesar
100-44 B.C.
900 A.D.
1000
10
----
Livy
59 BC-AD 17
----
???
20
----
Tacitus
circa 100 A.D.
1100 A.D.
1000 yrs
20
----
Aristotle
384-322 B.C.
1100 A.D.
1400
49
----
Sophocles
496-406 B.C.
1000 A.D.
1400 yrs
193
----
Homer (Iliad)
900 B.C.
400 B.C.
500 yrs
643
95%
New
Testament
1st Cent. A.D.(50-100 A.D.
2nd Cent. A.D.
(c. 130 A.D. f.)
less than 100 years
5600
99.5%
As you can see, there are thousands more New Testament Greek manuscripts than any other ancient writing. The internal consistency of the New Testament documents is about 99.5% textually pure. That is an amazing accuracy. In addition there are over 19,000 copies in the Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic languages. The total supporting New Testament manuscript base is over 24,000.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#605092 Feb 23, 2013
Final part,

Almost all biblical scholars agree that the New Testament documents were all written before the close of the First Century. If Jesus was crucified in 30 A.D., then that means that the entire New Testament was completed within 70 years. This is important because it means there were plenty of people around when the New Testament documents were penned who could have contested the writings. In other words, those who wrote the documents knew that if they were inaccurate, plenty of people would have pointed it out. But, we have absolutely no ancient documents contemporary with the First Century that contest the New Testament texts.

Furthermore, another important aspect of this discussion is the fact that we have a fragment of the gospel of John that dates back to around 29 years from the original writing (John Rylands Papyri 125 A.D.). This is extremely close to the original writing date. This is simply unheard of in any other ancient writing and it demonstrates that the Gospel of John is a First Century document.

Below is a chart with some of the oldest extant New Testament manuscripts compared to when they were originally penned. Compare these time spans with the next closest which is Homer's Iliad where the closest copy from the original is 500 years later. Undoubtedly, that period of time allows for more textual corruption in its transmission. How much less so for the New Testament documents?


Important
Manuscript
Papyri

Contents

Date
Original Written

MSS
Date

Approx.
Time Span

Location



p52
(John Rylands
Fragment)3

John 18:31-33,37-38

circa
96 A.D.

circa
125
A.D.

29 yrs

John Rylands Library, Manchester, England



P46
(Chester Beatty Papyrus)

Rom. 5:17-6:3,5-14; 8:15-25, 27-35; 10:1-11,22,24-33,35; 16:1-23, 25-27; Heb.; 1 & 2 Cor., Eph., Gal., Phil., Col.; 1 Thess. 1:1,9-10; 2:1-3; 5:5-9, 23-28

50's-70's

circa
200
A.D.

Approx.
150 yrs

Chester Beatty Museum, Dublin & Ann Arbor, Michigan, University of Michigan library



P66
(Bodmer Papyrus)

John 1:1-6:11,35-14:26; fragment of 14:29-21:9


70's

circa
200
A.D.

Approx.
130 yrs

Cologne, Geneva



P67

Matt. 3:9,15; 5:20-22, 25-28



circa
200
A.D.

Approx.
130 yrs

Barcelona, Fundacion San Lucas Evangelista, P. Barc.1


If the critics of the Bible dismiss the New Testament as reliable information, then they must also dismiss the reliability of the writings of Plato, Aristotle, Caesar, Homer, and the other authors mentioned in the chart at the beginning of the paper. On the other hand, if the critics acknowledge the historicity and writings of those other individuals, then they must also retain the historicity and writings of the New Testament authors; after all, the evidence for the New Testament's reliability is far greater than the others. The Christian has substantially superior criteria for affirming the New Testament documents than he does for any other ancient writing. It is good evidence on which to base the trust in the reliability of the New Testament.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#605093 Feb 23, 2013
TheGoodTheBadTheUgly wrote:
<quoted text>Speaking of bore, and besides you're haveing been bored more times (as every member knows) than a squirrel has holes, you're staring down the barrell of a deadly 44.
You are goning to get your comeuppance. And soon.
Your crotchless drawers allows your smell to permeate the topic for all to watch you being in my crosshairs and then the hammers of my Colts coming down to put an end to your misery.
Reported.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#605094 Feb 23, 2013
Mylan wrote:
Here are a few other ways measured poverty:

Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for all the crap they see on TV.

Being poor is going to the restroom before you get in the school lunch line so your friends will be ahead of you and won’t hear you say “I get free lunch” when you get to the cashier.

Being poor is living next to the freeway.

Being poor is a heater in only one room of the house.

Being poor is hoping your kids don’t have a growth spurt.

Being poor is Goodwill underwear.

Being poor is thinking $8 an hour is a really good deal.

Being poor is stopping the car to take a lamp from a stranger’s trash.

Being poor is making lunch for your kid when a cockroach skitters over the bread, and you looking over to see if your kid saw.

Being poor is a sidewalk with lots of brown glass on it.

Being poor is picking the 10 cent ramen instead of the 12 cent ramen because that’s two extra packages for every dollar.

-----

Sounds like frugal to me, not poor.

What's wrong with goodwill underwear? Why spend $13 on underwear when you can spend $2??

My uncle-in-law has only one heater in his house. He prefers it that way. And he is my no means poor, dudes got over half a million in the bank.

A cockroach in the kitchen is a sign of filth, not being poor.

Taking a perfectly good lamp that your neighbor threw away is smart. Free lamp, big deal. I once found a bed frame in the trash. It was perfect, saved me $80.

People like this "Scalzi" are clueless. And so are you.

“design is God's trademark”

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#605095 Feb 23, 2013
Largelanguage wrote:
<quoted text>
I know what I said about her.
and what was what you said about her based on? facts or lies?
unless you know her then you are simply blowing smoke out your butt for the sport of lying.

Good grief, what kind of person speaks about someone so rudely they don't even know? better yet what kind of person disrespect old people? you need to monitor your words more carefully.
Because what goes around always comes around.

“design is God's trademark”

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#605096 Feb 23, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
So who created your god?
you don't create that which is ETERNAL.
God is eternal.
He has always been.......like time, space, which is endless.
God is the great 'I AM' the Alpha and the Omega.
ETERNAL.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#605097 Feb 23, 2013
Largelanguage wrote:
You are dumb!
No, actually you are and he is correct. It's very easy to verify what he said. Just search about Durante Alighieri's (better known as Dante) book called "The Divine Comedy", which had a section called "The Inferno", and how the church reacted to it, plus the garbage dumps outside of the old City of Jerusalem and their customs. Don't 'cha just love history?

“design is God's trademark”

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#605098 Feb 23, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
Your argument makes no sense. Here's what your saying:
You believe in god.
You know creation is real.
Therefore, god exists because creation is real and something must have created it.
There is no proven causality.
Again - prove your god exists.
oh but there is a proven 'causality'.

the cause of progressing generations of mankind.
the cause of love and joy and blessings of life.
the cause of unfolding ever fulfilling provable prophecy that says
His will..........WILL be done.
the cause of mankind.

the system of nature, the perfection in God's design, the journey's end.

there is very much causality. It is called purpose.

If you can't look at the vast universe in its glory, if you can't see the detailed design in a flower, the vast complexity in life,
and not know there is a Creator, then the problem is not that there is no visable proof, the problem is that your vision is clouded by humanistic, philosophical, doctrines of this world.
you are spiritually blinded.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#605099 Feb 23, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
She has Jesus all over her house and a paint by numbers painting of Jesus and one of the last supper in her bedroom.
Very sorry to hear that you were raised in that type of a family, but at least you were smart enough and able to see past it, and not get sucked into that delusion yourself. My father had a painting like that too in his bedroom. The day after he died it "somehow" ended up in the trash, along with many religious statues, and they are now "blessing" some garbage dump where they belong.

I put up a picture of Tweety bird in it's place.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79...

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#605100 Feb 23, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
<quoted text> There is plenty of proof, manuscripts, Archaeological findings, eyewitnesses and more.
Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability
by Matt Slick
The New Testament is constantly under attack and its reliability and accuracy are often contested by critics. But, if the critics want to disregard the New Testament, then they must also disregard other ancient writings by Plato, Aristotle, and Homer. This is because the New Testament documents are better-preserved and more numerous than any other ancient writings. Because they are so numerous, they can be cross checked for accuracy... and they are very consistent.
There are presently 5,686 Greek manuscripts in existence today for the New Testament.1 If we were to compare the number of New Testament manuscripts to other ancient writings, we find that the New Testament manuscripts far outweigh the others in quantity.2
Author
Date
Written
Earliest Copy
Approximate Time Span between original & copy
Number of Copies
Accuracy of Copies
Lucretius
died 55 or 53 B.C.
1100 yrs
2
----
Pliny
61-113 A.D.
850 A.D.
750 yrs
7
----
Plato
427-347 B.C.
900 A.D.
1200 yrs
7
----
Demosthenes
4th Cent. B.C.
1100 A.D.
800 yrs
8
----
Herodotus
480-425 B.C.
900 A.D.
1300 yrs
8
----
Suetonius
75-160 A.D.
950 A.D.
800 yrs
8
----
Thucydides
460-400 B.C.
900 A.D.
1300 yrs
8
----
Euripides
480-406 B.C.
1100 A.D.
1300 yrs
9
----
Aristophanes
450-385 B.C.
900 A.D.
1200
10
----
Caesar
100-44 B.C.
900 A.D.
1000
10
----
Livy
59 BC-AD 17
----
???
20
----
Tacitus
circa 100 A.D.
1100 A.D.
1000 yrs
20
----
Aristotle
384-322 B.C.
1100 A.D.
1400
49
----
Sophocles
496-406 B.C.
1000 A.D.
1400 yrs
193
----
Homer (Iliad)
900 B.C.
400 B.C.
500 yrs
643
95%
New
Testament
1st Cent. A.D.(50-100 A.D.
2nd Cent. A.D.
(c. 130 A.D. f.)
less than 100 years
5600
99.5%
As you can see, there are thousands more New Testament Greek manuscripts than any other ancient writing. The internal consistency of the New Testament documents is about 99.5% textually pure. That is an amazing accuracy. In addition there are over 19,000 copies in the Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic languages. The total supporting New Testament manuscript base is over 24,000.
Sorry, quoting Matt Slick doesn't win you any points. He and I have corresponded and he is very 'slick' at saying absolutely nothing.

None of the evidence you mention above has actually ever been found. Claims by some people that certain artifacts proves something from the Bible does not prove the story. At the very most some 'might' confirm that certain groups of people existed where those weree found at some determined time in the past, but they do not prove anything of a supernatural nature such as the existence of a god, or miracles being performed.

I am thinking now thqat you must be Patty, because she is about the only person here who keeps repeating the stuff you posted after being successfully proven wrong thousands of times.

If the evidence existed, which you claim, we would not be having this debate. It would serve no purpose.

So what if documents we used today have some of the same info as documents that were hidden around or at the time of their writings. Would you expect they wouldn't?

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#605101 Feb 23, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Her, for such a well documented fact, said documents are impossible to find.
Finding, and understanding are two totally different things in your case. No doubt caused by your delusion.
Largelanguage

Mold, UK

#605102 Feb 23, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
Naturally I can't 'prove' that it existed in his vocabulary, but I was referring to the period in which believers tend to think that the stories of the Abrahamic God, or the events from those stories, took place, which to the New Earth proponents is somewhere around 6000 years ago with the actual written accounts dating back maybe 3000 or 4000 years.
Except that there appears to be independent records of writings prior to the "coming of Jesus" I could quickly believe that all of the Old Testament and NT was created within the last 2000 years, as we have nothing prior to 2000 years ago that proves any of the preceding events, nor do we have any proof of the events described in the NT.
The whole Bible, IMO, is a work of fiction, and could easily have originated at any time since the date calculated of the earliest proved documents.
We have no absolute proof that Jesus existed at all, though I would tend to not push the argument that he did not exist but was a figment of one's imagination, as is the whole Book of Mormon, and the denomination that sprang up around a well-known charlatan of the time.
It makes sense to me that since Christianity has existed in non religious writings since the time of Constantine, that it could very well have been based on the teachings of some itinerant preacher/teacher, though actual words would have been fabricated, since there were no forms of instant recording such as exist today.
One would not sit and listen to a preacher talk 2000 years ago, and then sit down some several decades after that preacher died, and copy word for word what he had said, because man does not have the ability to remember things in such detail for any period of time, much less 30 to 50 years or more.
I could not reproduce, from memory, the words of a conversation that I had one minute ago, even if I was consciously trying to memorize them, which one would normally not be doing if one was following the conversation.
How do you know the writing accounts date back to 3'000 or 4'000 years?

You idiot, constantine was a catholic, not a christian, he only made christianity(Catholism) official, he didn't actually invent christianity, which came from the early church, moron!

Memory depends on how you focus on it, and how the impact works, and your memory methods as well, fool!

Jericho and the Hittites were historically accurate, but weren't known after their existence. How could it have been written by bible within the last 2,000 years who didn't even know of jericho and the hittites? Naive little runt!

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