Prove there's a god.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#598772 Feb 9, 2013
karl44 wrote:
The buildings fell, not like they were struck, but rather like they were brought down by explosive demolition, then there is the small problem of the Thermite debris.
Marvin P. Bush, the president's younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center. A week before the towers were hit the buildings were closed down and teams of workers were working inside the buildings. The records for what they did were 'lost'. Marvin P. Bush also ran security for the airport where the airplanes took off. Many other things just 'magically' happened too. I don't know what happened but I sure know a strange coincidence when I see it. So it was either the worlds most magical perfect storm or people were behind parts of it.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#598773 Feb 9, 2013
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>No offense taken Booots.
In one instance, I was driving home from El Paso Texas and my nieces, nephews, sister and kids were in the minivan i was driving and we were going through a particular treacherous winding section of road in Beaumont CA at about 3 am. The road was two lanes in either direction and deep canyons to either side. Driving In the lane next to me was the second Car with my brothers and my mom and dad in it.
As I rounded a curve in the road there in my lane was an overturned pickup truck blocking my lane. I was traveling too fast to brake, and my only options were
1. Swerve left into the center divider and wipe out
2. Swerve right and wipeout the car with my brothers and parents
3. Go straight as I attempt to brake and hope the impact was not to severe.
In that split second I chose option 3.
I slammed on the brakes and we skidded forward. I thought to my self "God it's your will but why now?" I closed my eyes right before the impact and gritted my teeth. I opened my eyes and I completely missed the truck and was on the opposite side. I did not swerve, the truck not only blocked my lane but also blocked a couple of feet into my brothers lane as well.
I should have wrecked. I should have plowed into that other vehicle at 60mph and wrecked.
[parts removed]
We arrived. The procedure was performed and the Doctor eventually came back with the results.
The baby had tested very high with a positive low.
Our child was going to have severe Downs Syndrome and suffer from extreme defects
He was of the opinion that we should terminate the pregnancy immediately. He reasoned and told us that we were were still young and should try for another child. A healthy child. We shouldn't burden ourselves with such a problem for the rest of our lives. Needless to say Booots, we cried. What should have been a joyous occasion had now turned into an emotional nightmare.
We prayed about it and no answer came. My woman looked to me for the final decision and I was scared. Terminating the pregnancy and starting fresh was the most feasible smart thing to do. The morning before we had to make a decision I was sitting at the kitchen table drinking coffee and wasn't even thinking about the baby anymore as a decision had already been made.
I swear I heard or rather strongly felt a voice that said that children are a gift from God. A gift from the womb. I literally had to look around to see who had spoken.
The kitchen was empty.
The Doctor was not thrilled with our decision
To continue with the pregnancy but it was our decision.
That taught us boots, to accept what God gives us.
To not judge others for who they are, what they look like.
The baby was born. He did have some health issues over the years. But he's all grown up now. Healthy and strong. Attends college and Works at Disney running the light shows and events and now volunteers all over at the local Theaters donating his time and knowledge to the community,
He is my miracle baby.
Thanks for those stories, and for honestly expressing them as you experienced them, and how you interpreted the outcome. I wouldn't want to debate whether you experienced the intervention of God or a god, in those situations, or they just turned out that way. Doing so would serve no real purpose, and you do no harm by believing they are God's miracles, and that for you is a positive.

Thanks for sharing a bit of your experiences, Al.

Harm from unproved beliefs occurs when those who believe something and use that to purposely harm others, as is the case with some hate mongers on this site.

You also don't preach to others where preaching is not relevant to whatever is bring discussed. I respect that of you too.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#598774 Feb 9, 2013
Hukt on Fonix wrote:
<quoted text>
But Cap'm...'tis wut ya brung me aboard fer ain't it?
Sh!t!%$&#@! ARRRRRG!
Ah'l fetch yer cat o' nine tails.
War'd ya stow it dis time?
'Tis down in the galley. Ther us'n it ta whomp the bull with it as we speaks... mind yer walk now...ther in a frenzy!

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#598775 Feb 9, 2013
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>Marvin P. Bush, the president's younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center. A week before the towers were hit the buildings were closed down and teams of workers were working inside the buildings. The records for what they did were 'lost'. Marvin P. Bush also ran security for the airport where the airplanes took off. Many other things just 'magically' happened too. I don't know what happened but I sure know a strange coincidence when I see it. So it was either the worlds most magical perfect storm or people were behind parts of it.
Yer on a need ta know basis...obviously- yer position is be'n upheld.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#598776 Feb 9, 2013
Al Garcia wrote:
How does my being scared and having no control of the situation bolster my ego?
Adrenaline.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#598777 Feb 9, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> Yer on a need ta know basis...obviously- yer position is be'n upheld.
We can pretty much forget the thermite debris, anyway.

Thermite is a mixture of aluminium and iron oxide - I've made it myself.(For recreational purpouses only!)

One can find iron oxide and aluminium in any car wreck.

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

just better than yesterday

#598778 Feb 9, 2013
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>Adrenaline.
?? 0.o

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#598779 Feb 9, 2013
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
So now I'm a knuckle dragger eh? Lol!
I understand that for you everything has to have a scientific meaning, an explanation. And that without it anything else must be invalid. So when there is no scientific answer to something how do you wrap your head around it? For me its easy. I believe that What we see in Physics and science are just a very small portion of God's power. A miracle does not have to be scientifically unexplainable. Though he can at times use scientifically unexplainable miracles to show his power.
Science can tell us a lot about how life might have come to be, but it cannot tell us why. If you want to look for unexplained phenomena, you need to consider the why questions, not just the what and how. Ultimately, it comes down to faith. What do you choose to believe, in the absence of proof?
I think the biggest stumbling blocks with believing a specific belief, such as a minority of the human population follow to some degree a belief in a supernatural unseen being which some called the "Abrahamic God" or just "God", is that the source of that 'belief' is known to have some some serious errors and falsehoods in it.

They suggest that a compilation of assorted books claimed to have been written from 1800 or so years ago, and longer up to several thousand years ago, but only a small dot of time in the whole history of humanity, and of living things on this earth, is the exact words of this same God, and that they are the same as they were in the beginning, and will remain so, even though we do know how these books were put together, and how they have beed edited and re-edited many times over the years by many men, and that some of the stories which fundamentalists still claim are absolute truth, in fact, have been proved beyond any doubt they never actually occurred.

That doesn't disprove that a god or God exists, but it does prove that our source of knowledge which most use to learn about this God and pass in from generation to generation is proven to not be 100% reliable.

So we know that fundamentalists are wrong in claiming that 100% of the Bible is actual fact, because we now know that some of it, in fact, is fiction. That doesn't prove the non-existence of God, but it does make our source of knowing about a god, is in serious question.

I could easily throw away that roadblock by saying that God exists but the Bible is only man's accounts of his understandings of God, and because no man knows everything, and people 2000 and more years ago knew a very small fraction of the knowledge we have today, so they could not help but make lots of errors or false claims, innocently, because they wouldn't even have a clue how to verify their claims.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#598780 Feb 9, 2013
Al Garcia wrote:
building 7 falling never did add up Karl.
I do tend to believe that we're not being told all there is.
Many feel that Flight 93 (the plane that crashed in Shanksville) was supposed to crash into building 7. When it didn't they demolished it anyways. Physicist Dr. Steven Jones wrote a very compelling paper about it here;

http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200...

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#598781 Feb 9, 2013
Al Garcia wrote:
?? 0.o
Adrenaline can effect your perceptions and give some a 'spiritual' feeling. No doubt at a time like that your adrenaline was alive and well.
nagaraja

Morehead, KY

#598782 Feb 9, 2013
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>That must be why your link says this;
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the REJECTION OF BELIEF in the existence of deities
Weird.
a belief system doesn't require a deity.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#598783 Feb 9, 2013
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
?? 0.o
Mercury's cousin...
nagaraja

Morehead, KY

#598784 Feb 9, 2013
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>too bad for you anyone can post on that site, including RELIGIOUS people. Imagine that.
you opened the door. i just used the same website against you.
nagaraja

Morehead, KY

#598785 Feb 9, 2013
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
try a different dictionary
websters is discredited propaganda
i already used another website.

but for you sake, here it is again.

2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

agnostic

ag·nosti·cal·ly adv.
Word History: An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist. The term agnostic was fittingly coined by the 19th-century British scientist Thomas H. Huxley, who believed that only material phenomena were objects of exact knowledge. He made up the word from the prefix a-, meaning "without, not," as in amoral, and the noun Gnostic. Gnostic is related to the Greek word gnsis, "knowledge," which was used by early Christian writers to mean "higher, esoteric knowledge of spiritual things"; hence, Gnostic referred to those with such knowledge. In coining the term agnostic, Huxley was considering as "Gnostics" a group of his fellow intellectuals"ists," as he called themwho had eagerly embraced various doctrines or theories that explained the world to their satisfaction. Because he was a "man without a rag of a label to cover himself with," Huxley coined the term agnostic for himself, its first published use being in 1870.

obviously the man didn't believe that knowledge was a material thing even though he sought it religiously.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#598786 Feb 9, 2013
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text> Well Hukt, my younger brother is a conspiracy nut. He drank the conspiracy Kool Aid and sometimes our discussions get out if hand.
I've only sipped it and am not convinced. I will agree that great evil exists in this world and that there are people who will do evil to achieve their agenda. Always has been, always will be.
I think we all have to agree that something did occur, because millions of people around the world, including me, watched the events as they happened. I suspect there are many details of those events that were only guessed at, some were fabricated, because those who might know were dead, and some were fabricated because officials in any capacity have to decide how and what they are going to reveal to the public, in order to arrive at whatever conclusion they want the public to make, and that might be 100% honest, or in the worst scenario, might be 100% fabricated.

The events were something that had never happened in that scale in the prior history of the world, and they occurred over a relatively short time span, so getting absolute facts when a lot of the material of the events disappeared due to the massive fires, and destruction. The adrenaline levels of those actually in the events themselves who survived would have been so high, that anything they said after the fact would have to be affected by the extreme emotions that they must have experienced, and every person inside the event would have their own perception of what was happening.

The problem with the "official" conclusions that were presented to the public about the events of that day is that they left big gaps in certain aspects of the events which tend to leave a lot of doubt. Whether that is deliberate conspiracy or simply poor reporting, or poor conclusions we don't know.

I suspect that the majority of the 'conspiracy theories' are false, but I also believe that what has been released to the public is not telling the whole story.

I also "know" that the wars since then against Afghanistan and Iraq, in spite of the evil in those countries at the time, were/are not the correct way to have responded to 911, and that the reasons given for starting those wars were manufactured.

That makes every human being hurt or killed in the past 12 years or so, due to those wars, victims of deception. Likely all wars, if analyzed with no biases beforehand, would show the same conclusions.

Deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, the majority of which had nothing at all to do with 911, cannot be the correct solution to 911. I am not discounting the value of those lives lost, but questioning why they needed to even be placed in a situation that would take their lives.
nagaraja

Morehead, KY

#598787 Feb 9, 2013
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
not all lust for the non-existent
not all lust for nihilism either.
nagaraja

Morehead, KY

#598788 Feb 9, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for admitting that there is not now, nor has there ever been, any proof of any god's existence.
Next.
stay hungry and starve to death
nagaraja

Morehead, KY

#598789 Feb 9, 2013
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
try a different dictionary
websters is discredited propaganda
another one for you...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnost...

1.
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
nagaraja

Morehead, KY

#598790 Feb 9, 2013
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
If god is to receive credit for random situations of good fortune, then god must be responsible for situations of ill fortune.
To imply that god changed to course of reality in your favor, is to imply that you are favored by the god, that you are more worthy than others, that others are less than you.
agreed; otherwise the god is a hypocrite.

the LAW is impartial to forms.

oh sometimes i get a good feeling
get a feeling that i never, never had before.
nagaraja

Morehead, KY

#598791 Feb 9, 2013
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
I choose to be educated,
god help me
lol
you choose to be enculturated/conditioned into materialistic sensing. you work by deconstructing. there is nothing creative/constructive about that.

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