Prove there's a god.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#597567 Feb 4, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
That sounds great in theory, but in practice I can say with certainty that you do in fact take certain things based on somebody's say-so. Everyone does, for the simple fact that information is not accessible to everyone. So we have no choice. Certain things we just have to take people's word for it.
Right now, shit's going down in Egypt. Well, or so the media says. Now I'm not gona take a trip to see for myself what is truly happening. I'll just watch the tv in the hope that they are not leaving out anything important in the puzzle. It's more likely than not, a false hope. But what else can I do? What I see and read on that tv and newspaper, will shape my opinion of that country and its people. And "God" help us all, if what we see and read is not unbiased towards some political or economic agenda.
If the media wants information from the CIA, they'll received reams of paper of reports with most of the sentences blacked out. And yet many AMericans trust the CIA. Why? It is because the government told them from a young age that these people are to be trusted, just like any other government teaches its school children from a young age to respect, honour and rely on the police even if in reality the police might be corrupt criminals themselves, enforcing a single party ideology like in North Korea.
You trust a scientist to be objective and whatever conclusions he makes, you believe it, even though the reports detailing the research behind it are not accessible to you. You believe it despite the fact that there are entire "scientific" organisations whose sole purpose is to assert an agenda, perhaps of atheism and secular ideas, or Christian evangelist beliefs. By the time these things self correct, you would've died with false beliefs about nature.
And that can happen in your country. Imagine how much worse it is in countries where information is abundantly and proudly not accessible, like China or North Korea.
You can think for yourself and that's always better than trusting everything, but you are always limited to the information you have access to.
You have actually made a slew of false assumptions about me.

I don't trust the CIA.

I know that scientists can be motivated by personal bias and self interest.

I know that the media cannot be taken as totally accurate and complete information.

And I know that much of what's REALLY happening is documented on the web, where the powers that be, at least in this country, cannot really do anything about it.

I would challenge you to find anything significant that you think I might be indoctrinated in.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#597568 Feb 4, 2013
siehjin wrote:
<quoted text>
false dilemma. like the rest of our universe, snowflakes are both created by God and naturally formed. the fact that we are able to discern the natural processes by which water crystals form into those unique shapes of ephemeral beauty, in no way proves that God did not create them.
you mistakenly accuse me of making a 'god of the gaps' argument. that is not what i am doing. the God which i am speaking of is God of both the gaps in human knowledge, as well as the parts that have been filled. the more human beings discover about creation, the more of God's glory is revealed.
<quoted text>
true, there is much that they don't agree on. but they all agree on this: God exists. that is the main point here.
you claim that belief in God is most often held by the ignorant and those lacking intellect. i'm not sure if this is true. if you have proof to back it up, i'd appreciate it if you could show it to me. but even if it is true, this does not prove that God doesn't exist. perhaps, as the Bible says, He "chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise".
No, you are pulling a fallacy of ignorance, actually. You don't know why a snowflake forms and you're too lazy to actually understand it, so you just say "god dun it" so you don't have to learn anything. You're just lazy.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#597569 Feb 4, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> Bob's programming failed, and we haven't been able to recapture and repair the broken packages since he escaped the pod.
Yeah if I were religious I would beg him to go away. He really brings the religious ignorant stereotype to life.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#597571 Feb 4, 2013
True Truth wrote:
but really now, how do you know you are not indoctrinated?[/QUOTE}One simple way is to look at your background. If one or both of your parents were religious then you were indoctrinated. If you went to a religious school then you were indoctrinated. It's not so hard to figure out really.

[QUOTE] But who is to say that you are not indoctrinated by other powers, like Hollywood, or the media, or the government, or capitalists trying to sell you some product?
None of those are as damaging as religion, so not a factor.
Indoctrination is the consequence of a lack of distinction between fact and opinion.
No, indoctrination is a virus used on the unsuspecting to justify hate.
now I'm indoctrinating you on what freedom means
You and your ilk cannot indoctrinate me into anything. The tactics that worked on you are impotent on me. You are the slave, and most likely always will be. I am a independent thinker, always have been and your half-truths and propaganda are useless here.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#597572 Feb 4, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
Are they still slaves that don't know they're enslaved?
Yes, of course.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#597573 Feb 4, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
You have actually made a slew of false assumptions about me.
I don't trust the CIA.
I know that scientists can be motivated by personal bias and self interest.
I know that the media cannot be taken as totally accurate and complete information.
And I know that much of what's REALLY happening is documented on the web, where the powers that be, at least in this country, cannot really do anything about it.
I would challenge you to find anything significant that you think I might be indoctrinated in.
I was speaking mainly in the royal "you", not actually addressed to you. And I said many Americans trust the CIA. I didn't say you did.

And I'll have to see what values you champion here, to actually determine whether you are indoctrinated or not. But my point is, it all depends on information access.

Take a Christian from some remote village, like the YFZ ranch in America. They probably believe homosexuality is an abomination. Now the only information they have access to, is that dished out by their preachers or elders, and drawn mainly from the Bible. They are simply cut off from the internet, tv, and modern universities. So in their mind, they are taking whatever information they have access to, and they are thinking about it freely, and coming to the conclusion that homosexuality is an abomination, and anyone else out there is merely indoctrinated to believe otherwise. And from their point of reference, they really aren't indoctrinated, because they are thinking critically based on the limited information they have.

Now if they suddenly had access to information, or perhaps it was brought to their attention, the science behind homosexuality, the hormonal concentration differences and the actual relevance of two guys screwing to the grander scheme, they shall end up having different opinions.

On the other hand, some people in secular Europe want to champion prostitution in the name of freedom and autonomy. As far as they are concerned, to think otherwise is indoctrination. But if it was brought to their attention and they took the time to actually read up on what happens to the ethical fabric of societies with rampant prostitution, and many of this is documented in religious texts, not necessarily scriptures but other church documents, they would formulate different opinions that incorporate the pitfalls of prostitution.

That's the difference between a free mind and one that is not. If you are given limited information and make a decision, it's not indoctrination. But if you are given abundant information and then choose to ignore some information and select what is said to be preferred, then you are indoctrinated. You are choosing what others perceive to be valuable information. Who are others, to dictate to you what is valuable information and what is not? But people do it all the time conciously, or even through negligence.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#597574 Feb 4, 2013
True Truth wrote:
how do you know you are not indoctrinated?
Anyone who bases their "truth" on 'faith' is indoctrinated.

Faith is a tool used to remove your independent thinking. Faith is a virus. Faith makes you a pawn.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#597575 Feb 4, 2013
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>None of those are as damaging as religion, so not a factor.
<quoted text>No, indoctrination is a virus used on the unsuspecting to justify hate.
<quoted text>You and your ilk cannot indoctrinate me into anything. The tactics that worked on you are impotent on me. You are the slave, and most likely always will be. I am a independent thinker, always have been and your half-truths and propaganda are useless here.
<Sigh>. Yet another soul looking to put the blame of humanity's idiocy on a mere few scriptures, pen and ink. And you even defend Hollywood. Hahaha! So do you have shares in Hollywood or are you simply defending it as some pressing moral duty?

Me and my ilk? And what do you think am I? Who are my ilk?

The very fact that you believe and say to yourself, like a self- convincing child, that you are an independent thinker, is evidence enough that you are indoctrinated. You are no different to the average hooker in Amsterdam who thinks she's so independent and empowered for being given the right to sell her ass.

The path to independence begins by admitting your dependence. Otherwise, you are forever lost in a fantasy, an illusion.

And indoctrination is not only used for hate. It is used for many, many things, mostly to make others rich.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#597576 Feb 4, 2013
True Truth wrote:
I can say with certainty that you do in fact take certain things based on somebody's say-so.
If you're saying has there been communication in ones life before, well of course there has been, but that is different from faith. Faith tells you NOT to question. I would imagine your loving "god" would want you to know the truth. Therefore your blind faith goes against gods intentions. Your faith however keeps you from learning the truth. Your faith only feeds you the religious dogma that you need to know to keep your religion alive.Your blind faith in-fact, makes you a slave.
Right now, shit's going down in Egypt. Well, or so the media says.
No one here is basing their life on any of that, like you are basing your life on religious blind faith.
What I see and read on that tv and newspaper, will shape my opinion of that country and its people.
Then you are biased, and ripe for religion to manipulate you.
You trust a scientist to be objective and whatever conclusions he makes, you believe it, even though the reports detailing the research behind it are not accessible to you.
Not true. You are weak. Just because someone is a scientist doesn't mean they are right. At some point one needs to use some common sense. However nothing, and I do mean nothing, religious passes the smell test. Only fools buy into it.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#597577 Feb 4, 2013
Honeysuckler_rose wrote:
You are not thinking.
No, only those who use faith do not think.
Image does not mean flesh and bones.
Great. Post a picture of this "image" or you are a slave that has been manipulated by religion.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#597578 Feb 4, 2013
Honeysuckler_rose wrote:
shame on you for not knowing His word
Shame on you for being a willing slave to religious propaganda.

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#597579 Feb 4, 2013
siehjin wrote:
<quoted text>
there is no evidence suggesting it? just look at our world. look at its complexity. look at its beauty. from the subatomic world of quarks and electrons, to the amazing variety of biological life, to the immensity of interstellar space. you claim that all this came into existence by random chance, or the action of blind mechanistic processes? i say that's impossible. rather, it is evidence for the existence of God.
your god is everything you do not understand, that is why your god is so powerful

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#597580 Feb 4, 2013
siehjin wrote:
<quoted text>
if you seriously want to argue that God takes the form of an invisible pink unicorn or a flying spaghetti monster, you are free to do so.
the topic in question, however, simply states "prove there's a god". therefore there is no need to argue specifics; as per the topic, we need simply to establish whether or not some kind of God exists. if we are able to do that, then only should we debate the merits of the IPU vs. the FSM vs. other ideas of who this God is.
in conclusion, your parodies of God utterly fail to disprove my contention that the universe and all that is in it is evidence for the existence of God.
it is your responsibility to prove your contention

I shall do my part, I shall laugh

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#597581 Feb 4, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
People throw the word "indoctrinated" around very loosely these days. And everyone likes to think they are free thinking and not indoctrinated, but really now, how do you know you are not indoctrinated? Even members of the most rabidly oppressive and maniac cults thought themselves are free independent thinkers. Tony Alamo and David Koresh's cult members all thought they were free thinkers, and everyone else is indoctrinated.
I don't think you belong to any religion, and hence can claim no indoctrination from that direction. But who is to say that you are not indoctrinated by other powers, like Hollywood, or the media, or the government, or capitalists trying to sell you some product?
Who decides what your perception of freedom is? You? Haha, that'll be a great joke. The government tells, trains you, from an early age in school about what their definition of freedom is. But they will never say "Our definition of freedom is....", they will simply say "Freedom is...". If the Arms lobby decides that security means owning a gun, your kid will be indoctrinated in school to equate security with a gun. If they decide that selling your own ass is freedom and autonomy, then you will believe it and think of others who don't sell their ass as suppressed and not free.
Indoctrination is the consequence of a lack of distinction between fact and opinion. The lines are blurred, sometimes negligently, or even purposefully. One way or the other, everyone is indoctrinated and the sooner you admit that, the better. Then you will truly be free.(haha, now I'm indoctrinating you on what freedom means).
indoctrination into reason, morality, culture

or

indoctrination into, religion, hubris, hate

there remains a difference

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#597582 Feb 4, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
Name one miracle that is actually verifiable and not directed by human hands.
So-called "miracles" are nothing more than trickery on the gullible. Most are not even as great as they first sound. Take the whole water into wine BS. Wine is ALREADY 85% water - so really not much of a trick. If you put some kool-aid in some water and gave it to a child and told them it was wine, they'd believe it. The people in the days of jeebus would have loved Houdini and Chris Angel. Just think of all the "miracles" they could have performed. LOL....

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#597583 Feb 4, 2013
siehjin wrote:
<quoted text>
simple statement of your opinion, with no further explanation, reasoning, or proof. you utterly fail to disprove my point, that the existence of the universe is evidence for the existence of God.
<quoted text>
a personal insult, again with no further explanation, reasoning, or proof. this ad hominem attack again utterly fails to disprove my point, that the existence of the universe is evidence for the existence of God.
It is up to you to prove your silly contention

silly

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#597584 Feb 4, 2013
Honeysuckler_rose wrote:
<quoted text>
You are not thinking.
Yes we are made in God's image.
Image does not mean flesh and bones.
Had God of created man from the dust as the bible says He did, and He stopped there and did nothing else, man would not of 'lived'.
It took the 'breath of life' from God to create a living soul.
I have noticed that changing your name does not make you any smarter Patty

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#597585 Feb 4, 2013
True Truth wrote:
And you even defend Hollywood.
I did no such thing. Read what is written, and not what you want to read, slave.
Who are my ilk?
Religious slaves.
The path to independence begins by admitting your dependence.
You are the one who is dependent of faith. You are the only slave here. Only when you begin to question your religion will be able to be independent, but be forewarned, your religion uses fear to keep you in chains. Your religion will tell you that you are weak, being "tested" by god, and that is why you are questioning what you have been "taught". Best you just learn to "justify" being a slave in your religion as it's so much easier. LOL...

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#597586 Feb 4, 2013
Hukt on Fonix wrote:
<quoted text>
How does that address the post you replied to?
It doesn't. It's another red herring.
Here, lemme play..
The days of the week are named in honor of the Sun, Moon, and pagan deities.
Monday >>> Moon's day.
Tuesday >>> Tiw's day (Tiw was a Norse deity)
Wednesday >>> Woden's day (named in honor of Woden; Odin)
Thursday >>> Thor's day (named in honor of Thor)
Friday >>> Frigg's day (Frigg; Frigga... Odin's wife)
Saturday >>> Saturn's day (honors a Roman God)
Sunday >>> Day of the Sun
Each is honored 52 times a year!
That was fun!
<quoted text>
That still doesn't address the post you replied to.
You're telling me there are “first-hand” accounts of your Christ. How do you know they're first-hand accounts? Why should I believe they are?
<quoted text>
What you mean to say is >>> If one disagrees with you, it's them who is wrong rather than you.
Substantiate your claim.
<quoted text>
Bye,
Hukt
this is all you're gonna get since it's been enough for millions of people to this day and throughout the ages:

repent (i.e. change your mind), believe the Gospel and live!

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#597587 Feb 4, 2013
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
..... reason, morality, culture
..... religion, hubris, hate.....
there remains a difference
No, there is not a difference. Not if each is defined by you.

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