“Spelin 'n' tpyin...”

Since: Feb 08

...are my strong suits!

#595601 Jan 29, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>A creator cannot be created simple look at it this way, cars/constructs these are all made, the makers of those are NOT made they are created thus the creator of those creations cannot be either made nor created.
Have you ever met a creator of anything... be it an artist, a builder, a composer... that didn't have to be created?

Cars have been observed being built...


Do you have a video of our universe being constructed?
Yes I still stick with the cause and effect, but God cannot be subjected as an effect, since he is not an effect there is no cause for God.
The strategy you're attempting to employ here is called “Special Pleading”.

Look it up.
You simply proved my point for the your last example, TIME is something man brought up, which is simply an indicator of events that occur during a period, in which they labeled and gave it an identity. Space...same man brought it up as a measure between distances and dimensions. However, all that existed not by us we simply identify, but do not create, thus it had been created if u say made then how is the creator of those makers?
Okay...

I realize that English is a second language for you... and you're doing pretty good with it... but, I'm not sure what the crux of your question is here.

Time is one of my favorite subjects. We my get deeper into it as our exchange progresses.

For now...

Even though, based on observation, science has put an "age" (as well as a size; the two go hand-in-hand) to our universe... you first need to understand that the figures arrived at only apply to our *observable* universe.

Also...

Those figures don't specifically identify a "point-of-origin". BBT (Big Bang Theory) does not deal with origin. It's only a description (a few different flavors) of how our universe developed in the intervening time from a moment very early on and all the way up to the present.

There's a word... asymptote (asymptotic, asymptotically)... the meaning of which must be taken into consideration when attempting to nail down an exact point-of-origin for our universe. Loosely stated, "asymptotic" means >>> moving toward a value but never arriving at that value. General Relativity tells us that time in the early universe would become more and more dilated as we work our way back toward origin. To put it simply... one can't get there from here because any given duration becomes expanded toward infinity as origin is approached.

It works both ways >>> dilation is in effect whether we're examining that "time" in reverse or in forward. General Relativity prevents us from having to deal with the universe's origin in the first place.

However, that doesn't mean can't discuss the concept... and even go beyond it.
"the concept of a beginning for the universe is MEANINGLESS." I'm afraid u said something that all atheists disagree with you on that point, since atheists say that our very purpose for living and that we are all here is simply for learning, which in this case is meaningful.
I didn't say any of that... and, as previously stated, I don't speak for all atheists.
I do not have to prove that since "common sense" tells us that. Its just not comprehendable, How can it "always existed" that cannot be digested it just cannot think about it, it even hurts your head if you do.
My head feels fine.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#595602 Jan 29, 2013
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>I will ask you again because I haven't forgotten that you didn't answer earlier:
Let's say the founding fathers were all Jews. Would you have converted to Judaism?
What DIFFERENCE does it make what the founding fathers did or did not believe and why should that have ANY influence or make ANY difference regarding what YOU believe?
No, it would've made no difference to me whatsoever. Jews are weird.
Anyway, here, STUPID- now go argue with wiki.
"The religious views of Thomas Jefferson diverged widely from the orthodox Christianity of his day.
Throughout his life Jefferson was intensely interested in theology, religious studies, and morality.[1]
Jefferson was most closely connected with Unitarianism and the religious philosophy of Christian deism.[2]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson...
Argue with Wiki? WTF?

Why, they say the same thing I do...

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#595603 Jan 29, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I would not eat my ass.
Well same here, why then do you think I care about those foolish kidnappers, who convert christians to "their false islam"?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#595604 Jan 29, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Don't forget that she told the cat that God was forcing her hand; that it was his fault she was paying a vet to give it the needle.
xD
I think we should give Mylan some intermission time to go back to sucking on that tailpipe that he loves so much.
Right, right, right. How could I forget?

It was the evil god that created a mortal heart that did in the cat.....

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

just better than yesterday

#595605 Jan 29, 2013
MrC wrote:
<quoted text>
if a god is omniscient, and omnipresent then there can be no free will.
How so????

nano hit it on the head when she said:

"Having knowledge of events does not mean the owner of that knowledge has interfered with the events that happened. If a being has lived for eternity and traveled through time, at will, it could know every event that has ever happened...without having "caused" another being's choices"

just that statement alone can explain that perceived catch 22.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#595606 Jan 29, 2013
MrC wrote:
<quoted text>
if a god is omniscient, and omnipresent then there can be no free will.
So if you've memorized the words of a song you can no longer play the song?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#595607 Jan 29, 2013
This is what Redneck saw:
Victor Belmont wrote:
- NO NUDE WOMEN = True

- NO BEER = True

- MORE THAN ONE MOTHER IN LAW = True
Why the f_ck would anyone want to be Muslim?

(I mean except of course the women that are kidnapped and frced into it - I don't think they "want" to be Muslim...)

“Spelin 'n' tpyin...”

Since: Feb 08

...are my strong suits!

#595608 Jan 29, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
that MATH you call now was thought to be dark magic back then, which you now think our religion is a falsehood or Delusion, we are still at the same place you the non-believer we believer back then you the non-believer of science and logic we the believers of it. Also, you replied only in regards to Newton, whatabout the rest? not all of them used math.
I dunno... What about the rest?

Why are you trying to use math?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#595609 Jan 29, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
Well same here, why then do you think I care about those foolish kidnappers, who convert christians to "their false islam"?
I'd think that as a Mulsim, you'd care about kidnapped girls forced into Islam & forced to marry a Muslim man....

But I thought wrong.
Pat

Granby, CT

#595610 Jan 29, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
So many false acquisitions- Where have u inquired this if I may ask?
- NO TELEVISION = False
- NO NUDE WOMEN = True
- NO FOOTBALL = False
- NO PORK CHOPS = True
- NO HOT DOGS = False
- NO BURGERS = False
- NO BEER = True
- NO BACON = What bacon (lard or any pig product? if so the yes its true)
- RAGS FOR CLOTHES = Explain this more please
- TOWELS FOR HATS = False
- CONSTANT WAILING FROM SOME IDIOT IN A TOWER = Not wailing, calling and False no idiot is allowed on the tower
- MORE THAN ONE WIFE = True
- MORE THAN ONE MOTHER IN LAW = True
- YOU CAN'T SHAVE = False
- YOUR WIFE CAN'T SHAVE = False
- YOU CAN'T WASH OFF THE SMELL OF DONKEY = False
- YOU COOK OVER BURNING CAMEL SHIT = Absolutely false and forbidden
- YOUR WIFE IS PICKED BY SOMEONE ELSE FOR YOU = False you pick your wife, but someone else could find and offer you.
- AND YOUR WIFE SMELLS WORSE THAN YOUR DONKEY = False, in fact we are considered the cleanest of people since we don't clean our shit with toilet paper, we WASH and we always wash before eat, praying plus its highly encouraged be clean and shave at all times, while it is highly discouraged to even eat onions lets say and go to the mosque.
- THEN THEY TELL YOU THAT "WHEN YOU DIE, IT ALL GETS BETTER"??
WELL NO SHIT SHERLOCK!.... IT'S NOT LIKE IT COULD GET MUCH WORSE
THE MUSLIMS ARE NOT HAPPY! When you die a faithful one? ofcourse its better, if not ofcourse its worse...there is no switzerland here my friend its either you are faithful or not.
Oh and btw did you know the money, girls and all other shit never brought happiness, but actually misery? its only a shirt term of happiness but long term misery. As for that the happiest people are the farmers and well...the ones who live a simple life. This has been so popular that in the matrix blue or red pill...u know what I mean. And no I'm not implying that its best to live stupid and naive, because our religion dislikes those who just pray and are not knowledgeable. But, the only difference is we have something called useful and useless knowledge such as parapsychology and black magic, unless you truely believe that it will lead to a new discovery and not a waste of time.
Then just stay in your shit hole muslim nations then.
Pat

Granby, CT

#595611 Jan 29, 2013
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>Up yours, pal.
Thanks for once again showing your true colors which includes your overwhelming ignorance and dishonesty to the point of not being able to admit you DID say what I claimed you did about minorities as well as not being able to provide anything of any sort of substance at all which would indicate that it's "pretty clear" Lincoln was a religious man which you said he was based on the Gettysburg Address.
Next- Mylan is not my "buddy"- Mylan is another poster here who seems to be a very nice and very intelligent person who can no more stomach your BS and lies than most people here can.
That being said, there is no special alliance between Mylan and me, so as I suggested to you last week and will suggest again: Put that self-inflicted persecution complex of yours back in your back pocket.
And honey- the day the sorry ass likes of YOU put ME in MY place- HA!
The second coming of your Christ would have to happen before YOU putting ME in MY place ever would or ever could.
STUFF it, loser.
So how will you and your alarm system fare in this situation? Two more fine African American youths doing what they do best...

http://www.wral.com/two-detained-after-raleig...

Since: May 11

Glasgow, UK

#595612 Jan 29, 2013
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
How so????
nano hit it on the head when she said:
"Having knowledge of events does not mean the owner of that knowledge has interfered with the events that happened. If a being has lived for eternity and traveled through time, at will, it could know every event that has ever happened...without having "caused" another being's choices"
just that statement alone can explain that perceived catch 22.
I`m going to rehearse this once and only once.

To be polite I`m going to begin with the priori "god exists".

This god who exists is omniscient, and omnipresent and omnibenevolent.

A perfectly good and benevolent being would by nature want to prevent all evils, loving all of his creations equally.

The omniscient being knows every way that evil can occur, from the birth of a dictator to the flash flood on a remote mountain which kills the fawn and the doe and all the other little critters.

A god who knows the origin of every evil and who can stop said evil and who wants to do so WOULD do so.

If an omnipresent, omniscient and omnibenevolent being exists then evil would not exist.

A man who makes an evil choice is condemned to hell, god knows the results of that mans life before it is lived, he is after all omniscient.

So either god allows evil people or people destined for hell to be born to simply stoke the flames of hell, because he already knows the outcome or evil does not exist.

Evil exists therefore god does not.

It is simple logic and I think if you refer to the premises I made first they are all borne out by scripture. You can`t have it both ways.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#595613 Jan 29, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Loy's daughters got him drunk, he didn't know they wanted children from him. But that was back when "keeping the family line" like that was customary. Lot wasn't the only father to impregnate his daughters.
<quoted text>
I did not permit that. But stories like that are one if the reasons God handed down the 10 Commandments.
<quoted text>
Ugh, another flat earth thing? LMAO.
Who, in that time period, thought the earth was a sphere? Look up at the full moon, do you see a disc or a sphere? Look at a photo of Earth taken from space, do you see a disc or a sphere?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Loy's daughters got him drunk, he didn't know they wanted children from him. But that was back when "keeping the family line" like that was customary. Lot wasn't the only father to impregnate his daughters.
-
Nice excuse, which is a true shame for prophet to whose daughters commit such acts. Our prophets would never have such a humiliation by the poor excuse of relatives, do you know why? Because they do not have exceptions, an enemy to Allah is an enemy to him.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I did not permit that. But stories like that are one if the reasons God handed down the 10 Commandments.
-
So do you follow a prophet who is susceptible to sin? How you call them prophets I don't understand.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Ugh, another flat earth thing? LMAO.
Who, in that time period, thought the earth was a sphere? Look up at the full moon, do you see a disc or a sphere? Look at a photo of Earth taken from space, do you see a disc or a sphere?
-
Well then explain to me why the quran mentions the earth was spherical? Same with that of the Earth rotating around the sun, instead of the Sun rotating around the Earth. Wouldn't that also be considered a miracle then, back at their time? Plus you admit it yourself that it mentions a flat one, SO your bible is not perfect as our quran.

Since: May 11

Glasgow, UK

#595614 Jan 29, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
So if you've memorized the words of a song you can no longer play the song?
Does the song equate to the birth of a child who will grow up to be Ted Bundy?

If so you should probably stop before that particular verse.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#595615 Jan 29, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong still. God never "became a man".....
But a man (Jesus) became a GOD!!!???

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#595616 Jan 29, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you should be thanking America, not putting it down.
lol that is a long discussion lets not talk about it, or perhaps later on if u like, after were done with these?

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#595617 Jan 29, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text> -
Nice excuse, which is a true shame for prophet to whose daughters commit such acts. Our prophets would never have such a humiliation by the poor excuse of relatives, do you know why? Because they do not have exceptions, an enemy to Allah is an enemy to him.
<quoted text> -
So do you follow a prophet who is susceptible to sin? How you call them prophets I don't understand.
<quoted text> -
Well then explain to me why the quran mentions the earth was spherical? Same with that of the Earth rotating around the sun, instead of the Sun rotating around the Earth. Wouldn't that also be considered a miracle then, back at their time? Plus you admit it yourself that it mentions a flat one, SO your bible is not perfect as our quran.
<laughs>

Your turn, Ar Ar.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#595618 Jan 29, 2013
MisterCharrington wrote:
Evil exists therefore god does not.
I'm just gonna stick to this one sentence because it seem syour whole idea is based off of it. But you're wrong.

Isaiah 45:7

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#595619 Jan 29, 2013
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
so you were lying
you never studied philosophy
You still don't believe I got an A?? I could take a screen shot and e-mail u besides, I'll be taking critical reasoning this summer course and hopefully another A ;)

“Spelin 'n' tpyin...”

Since: Feb 08

...are my strong suits!

#595620 Jan 29, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, it fits the definition of religion very good. But it also fits the definition of science very good, as science often depicts itself as absolutely true and undeniable, when it seems like most of the time the "truth" is often just a hypothesis.
But since there's no better hypothesis that becomes the "general consensus of science".
That doesn't mean in any way shape or form that that hypothesis is indeed fact. But it's often taught as fact.
Once it can be demonstrated as fact... it's considered as fact... as is the case with what was being discussed. Do you even remember what that was?

Your god cannot be demonstrated as fact, and therefor should not be considered as fact and should not be taught as fact.
You're speaking in half-truths. Religion, well at least my religion, does not wait for science to prove or disprove anything. If science stumbles across something that is thought of as a fact and we just roll with the punches. We believe that what is said in the Bible is true, although most of it is allegory or metaphor and not necessarily literal.
I was speaking in full-truths... and specifically about your religion, if you must know.

History makes that abundantly clear.
Whoops, my mistake. Yes I know the Milky Way is the galaxy, what I meant to type was that science used to think the Milky Way was the universe, and it was taught that way-that are little Milky Way galaxy is the universe, and people like you believe it because "science doesn't fault itself".
I figured you meant to say that... but, then again, it's hard to tell with you.

"They" thought the Milky Way was the whole-ball-of-wax back then due to limitations in their observational capabilities. What changed wasn't what was being observed... but rather, their ability to observe. It's a perfect example of science correcting itself.

Thank the people that make it happen >>> Scientists.
But when it does, what happens to all the folks that have been taught wrong for who knows his long?
The ones with open minds and genuine interest learn something new. The ones without those qualities don't.
True, but in the meantime for hundreds of years science, specifically medical science, "knew" that that was the best way to cure a cold-to bleed it out.
Who cares about the archaic practice of bloodletting? Besides you?

The point is and will remain, no matter how many red herrings you toss into the conversation, that science lead to abandoning that practice.

Would you like to go back to those days... because of what “they knew” back then?
And you can't compare that to religion, religion does not focus itself on medicine or biology or geology or any part of science. Religion isn't science.
This is just outright BS. I'm not even going to address it.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 2 min truth 582,616
News Blaming Israel for carnage (Jul '06) 3 min One way or another 121,619
Why I’m no longer a Christian (Jul '08) 3 min HipGnosis 442,443
Poll If you're Christain what kind are you? (Oct '07) 17 min dollarsbill 2,980
Poll Why are asians so dumb? (Jan '13) 22 min andet1987 483
Bush is a hero (Sep '07) 48 min lisw 176,354
iso 58 min Rebecca41289 1
Why Should Jesus Love Me? (Feb '08) 3 hr Wolftracks 611,760
Sims 4 Key Generator (Oct '13) Fri puspamishra130 190
More from around the web