Have you ever met a creator of anything... be it an artist, a builder, a composer... that didn't have to be created?<quoted text>A creator cannot be created simple look at it this way, cars/constructs these are all made, the makers of those are NOT made they are created thus the creator of those creations cannot be either made nor created.
Cars have been observed being built...
Do you have a video of our universe being constructed?
The strategy you're attempting to employ here is called “Special Pleading”.Yes I still stick with the cause and effect, but God cannot be subjected as an effect, since he is not an effect there is no cause for God.
Look it up.
Okay...You simply proved my point for the your last example, TIME is something man brought up, which is simply an indicator of events that occur during a period, in which they labeled and gave it an identity. Space...same man brought it up as a measure between distances and dimensions. However, all that existed not by us we simply identify, but do not create, thus it had been created if u say made then how is the creator of those makers?
I realize that English is a second language for you... and you're doing pretty good with it... but, I'm not sure what the crux of your question is here.
Time is one of my favorite subjects. We my get deeper into it as our exchange progresses.
Even though, based on observation, science has put an "age" (as well as a size; the two go hand-in-hand) to our universe... you first need to understand that the figures arrived at only apply to our *observable* universe.
Those figures don't specifically identify a "point-of-origin". BBT (Big Bang Theory) does not deal with origin. It's only a description (a few different flavors) of how our universe developed in the intervening time from a moment very early on and all the way up to the present.
There's a word... asymptote (asymptotic, asymptotically)... the meaning of which must be taken into consideration when attempting to nail down an exact point-of-origin for our universe. Loosely stated, "asymptotic" means >>> moving toward a value but never arriving at that value. General Relativity tells us that time in the early universe would become more and more dilated as we work our way back toward origin. To put it simply... one can't get there from here because any given duration becomes expanded toward infinity as origin is approached.
It works both ways >>> dilation is in effect whether we're examining that "time" in reverse or in forward. General Relativity prevents us from having to deal with the universe's origin in the first place.
However, that doesn't mean can't discuss the concept... and even go beyond it.
I didn't say any of that... and, as previously stated, I don't speak for all atheists."the concept of a beginning for the universe is MEANINGLESS." I'm afraid u said something that all atheists disagree with you on that point, since atheists say that our very purpose for living and that we are all here is simply for learning, which in this case is meaningful.
My head feels fine.I do not have to prove that since "common sense" tells us that. Its just not comprehendable, How can it "always existed" that cannot be digested it just cannot think about it, it even hurts your head if you do.