Prove there's a god.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#594757 Jan 28, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
The stars and planets and solar system themselves are formed by processes that are not intelligent. Or even crystals and
stalactite /mite by processes that needed conditions but not intelligence. Would you say drifting plates colliding that formed mountains an intelligent cause? Or a random act of circumstance.
Many things are just that random acts of circumstance.
why did I say "u know the rest we will ultimately reach the point where you say; we have not discovered it yet.." I did not want to go through what u said simply I will reach the point by questioning you about matter and how it suddenly existed.

"Would you say drifting plates colliding that formed mountains an intelligent cause? Or a random act of circumstance.
Many things are just that random acts of circumstance." Yes I would, just as the rain is a command by God, volcanoes the creation of earth and life, assuming the big bang theory proven correct. God is the one who commanded it, for he is the absolute 1 creator of all, including your intellect and capabilities of learning.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#594758 Jan 28, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
You are assuming everything has to be "created," that is why you are wrong.
again we go threw the cycle one more time. Why am I wrong, can you present a non-created entity?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#594759 Jan 28, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet he relies on probability, which in the end shows a higher chance of what is a better life to choose, since u love logic and maths you should follow. It is not about the content of his theory, simply view the logic, if you truly value that, which you claim to do so. Therefore, any sophisticated atheist should approve, thus follow his theory.
No, he does not utilize probability because your chances of choosing the right god are one in millions. Pascal's Wager lacks any logic or reason. But let's pretend for a moment that one of the gods is real, and that you chose the correct one based on the "just in case" belief. What do you think the god would consider a person who lies just to get a "get out of jail free" card? To lie and pretend you believe in a deity just to get on it's good graces would be an insult to that deity and you'd be worse off than ... well atheists. So if anyone is safest, it would be atheists, since you have a one in millions chance of choosing the right god, and then you'd still piss off that god because of lying for good graces, in other words cheating, us atheists have a way better chance of explaining our reasoning than you do, because at least we're honest.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#594760 Jan 28, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
again we go threw the cycle one more time. Why am I wrong, can you present a non-created entity?
... and there you go moving the goal posts yet again. So if the rest of the universe does not require being created, why would life be different since it's part of that same universe?

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#594761 Jan 28, 2013
@Aura "Many things are just that random acts of circumstance." I forgot to mention one last thing about that. Yes we believe that there is no randomness which is much greater chances of becoming true, since the chances of random effects resulting in the creation of the world as it is right now, is hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighly insanely almost cannot even be calculated small. something like 0.billion of billion of...till "1" I'm certain I explained this before to a person here who I never received any reply from. In the end we go back to atheism in believing valuing knowledge as they claim to do so, thus in this case mathematics well..the calculations are a proof in your eyes right now!! you have no excuse to to follow the least chances, or am I wrong in my calculations?

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#594762 Jan 28, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
No, he does not utilize probability because your chances of choosing the right god are one in millions. Pascal's Wager lacks any logic or reason. But let's pretend for a moment that one of the gods is real, and that you chose the correct one based on the "just in case" belief. What do you think the god would consider a person who lies just to get a "get out of jail free" card? To lie and pretend you believe in a deity just to get on it's good graces would be an insult to that deity and you'd be worse off than ... well atheists. So if anyone is safest, it would be atheists, since you have a one in millions chance of choosing the right god, and then you'd still piss off that god because of lying for good graces, in other words cheating, us atheists have a way better chance of explaining our reasoning than you do, because at least we're honest.
I do not approve of it myself, since you see it this way then ok I'm convinced his theory fails against you, I only wanted to learn more and so did.."What do you think the god would consider a person who lies just to get a "get out of jail free" card? To lie and pretend you believe in a deity just to get on it's good graces would be an insult to that deity and you'd be worse off than ... well atheists." - this just shows me that you actually have feelings and thought about God, IF you believed in one.

Well I'll hopefully have something in the near future I won't forget what u said just now.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#594763 Jan 28, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
why did I say "u know the rest we will ultimately reach the point where you say; we have not discovered it yet.." I did not want to go through what u said simply I will reach the point by questioning you about matter and how it suddenly existed.
"Would you say drifting plates colliding that formed mountains an intelligent cause? Or a random act of circumstance.
Many things are just that random acts of circumstance." Yes I would, just as the rain is a command by God, volcanoes the creation of earth and life, assuming the big bang theory proven correct. God is the one who commanded it, for he is the absolute 1 creator of all, including your intellect and capabilities of learning.

You have a way of seeing the world which is entirely incompatible with science. There's not much point in even trying to understand
processes if you think they are all divinely created.

For instance natural processes we see as conditional. You see as directed by a initiator. We make devices to control processes and use them this is a directed outcome, but as so far as directed processes go. Humans created every one we can identify, other than that there are only natural ones.

We do not see the rain storm as a created process , but rather a conditional process of random circumstances.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#594764 Jan 28, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
My problem is with innocent little children who suffer and then die of cancer.
No other person did anything to the child.
Just your lousy god who allows this.
Ah... A true atheist... lol

So tell me, since you didn't die if cancer as a child, do you thank God for it every day? Do you thank God for you health?

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#594765 Jan 28, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
... and there you go moving the goal posts yet again. So if the rest of the universe does not require being created, why would life be different since it's part of that same universe?
I'm not! your the one who fails to provide a reasonable explanation. The universe; explain how it existed if it was not created, it does not even equal in maths... creations=existence your saying to me non-creations=existence somehow this does not make sense as in maths 1=1 not 0=1 and common sense is one of your highest valued attributes or am I wrong?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#594766 Jan 28, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not approve of it myself, since you see it this way then ok I'm convinced his theory fails against you, I only wanted to learn more and so did.."What do you think the god would consider a person who lies just to get a "get out of jail free" card? To lie and pretend you believe in a deity just to get on it's good graces would be an insult to that deity and you'd be worse off than ... well atheists." - this just shows me that you actually have feelings and thought about God, IF you believed in one.
Well I'll hopefully have something in the near future I won't forget what u said just now.
Trust me, all of your fallacies will fail against me. Try to present one that uses logic and you may at least give me some kind of challenge, otherwise, you're just another failed creatard.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#594767 Jan 28, 2013
"Since the chances of random effects resulting in the creation of the world as it is right now, is hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighly insanely "

We tend to have to scale things to understand them sometimes. Look at it this way, everything has a
window of opportunity. But there are many windows on a path. This path of windows stretches beyond sight, a further. To understand the processes that created the Earth you have to think like James Hutton did.

Deep time 4.7 billion years is a number hard to imagine really, and evolution is this same way.
To understand them you have to conquer the idea of scale, and deep time.

Learn this if nothing else from me, Deep time.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#594768 Jan 28, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
You have a way of seeing the world which is entirely incompatible with science. There's not much point in even trying to understand
processes if you think they are all divinely created.
For instance natural processes we see as conditional. You see as directed by a initiator. We make devices to control processes and use them this is a directed outcome, but as so far as directed processes go. Humans created every one we can identify, other than that there are only natural ones.
We do not see the rain storm as a created process , but rather a conditional process of random circumstances.
I do not know what to say, since u are just repeating the same idea..I'll repeat mine. Yes we do not niglect the fact that it is a natural process, however all those process, the rotation of the earth, from the tiniest of all such as viruses who infect, there is nothing in this world that happens without the will of God, "as not only we believe the follow, but pray day and night non-stop to God, everything (creations).

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#594769 Jan 28, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not! your the one who fails to provide a reasonable explanation. The universe; explain how it existed if it was not created, it does not even equal in maths... creations=existence your saying to me non-creations=existence somehow this does not make sense as in maths 1=1 not 0=1 and common sense is one of your highest valued attributes or am I wrong?
You have no explanation either, you just pretend to have one and name it some god, which makes your explanation a failure because it's made up. Then you continue to assume that everything has to be created.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#594770 Jan 28, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah... A true atheist... lol
So tell me, since you didn't die if cancer as a child, do you thank God for it every day? Do you thank God for you health?
so your redneck everyone is talking about? Since your replying to him I have already done so, which u might be interested in my point of view..this is what I have said -

A child becoming sick is also a test...You must be thankful to Allah Always in everytime of happyness and suffering read. That small child having cancer or anything first of all. Gets into heaven if he dies. Second it lives, the child will have a stronger will and patience than you. Third as I said it is a test for you..will you curse God or accept what God does. God has brought you this child, it is not YOURS sure u worked a little but the rest was a blessing to you, he has simply taken it back. Plus there are always advantages to everything. for instance someone who is blind is refrained from sinning through his eyes. Someone who is deaf can not overhear or spy with his ears. I'm not saying its better, but there are always reasons that are far beyond our reasoning. The problem here is that you always try to compare yourselves to God, just because we are intelligent beings, do not forget who is your creator. If you created sand can it surpass you in shape and figure? God has created you and your brain therefore you will never surpass or even come near him by your wisdom. Unless HE has allowed it.
And that child who is sick is never left or forgotten, God watches all and loves those who keep their divinity towards him. In your case your saying the cry of the lonely oppressed ones is never heard and the oppressor gets away with it...sadly this gives atheists some evil ideas since they don't believe in God..this is another discussion anyways lastly this is also a sign of Gods powers that even the new born can be defected yet they can still live happily, for example look at Nick Vujicic he has tetra amelia syndrome but he is one of the happyist of the happyists out there. How do you reply to that?
Also it is part of life cycle yes, I mean people like you think its better and better if doctors keep on finding cures and antidotes for living and living as much as possible, but have you asked yourself why diseases exist then? Its not nice thinking this way but its true (you like this idea..) diseases help lower the population which help in sooooooo many things u can think of.
stretch of logic...you go back into facts..tell me I also forgot to say this to KittenKoder did Aristotel and Newton and others have fasts back then? no they were thinking much beyond facts until then they managed to prove what they had. You are now like the men back then who think that we are loons but on the day of judgement the exact will happen to was newton and others proved many ages ago.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#594771 Jan 28, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Trust me, all of your fallacies will fail against me. Try to present one that uses logic and you may at least give me some kind of challenge, otherwise, you're just another failed creatard.
Do not be so full of yourself, is that another way of your judgements to others? I merely wanted to see your point of u go and read what I said. Plus I did which bring me one step closer.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#594772 Jan 28, 2013
Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem says, the system which you're using doesn't matter, there is always something true but can't be proven or be disproven.

According to this, maybe God hasn't to be a thing that can be proven or be disproven. You just believe it.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#594773 Jan 28, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
"Since the chances of random effects resulting in the creation of the world as it is right now, is hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighly insanely "
We tend to have to scale things to understand them sometimes. Look at it this way, everything has a
window of opportunity. But there are many windows on a path. This path of windows stretches beyond sight, a further. To understand the processes that created the Earth you have to think like James Hutton did.
Deep time 4.7 billion years is a number hard to imagine really, and evolution is this same way.
To understand them you have to conquer the idea of scale, and deep time.
Learn this if nothing else from me, Deep time.
Now your starting to open your mind FINALLY

Well since you thought is up, hopefully one day you will try and think even deeper and extend your reach further, why not? As you say it is a door of opportunity. If you were living in past times I would be on the sides of newton and other philosophers who were mainly depicted as loons but the others who back at their time were similar to you (atheists) except that they are not developed much. Now then here at this present moment its exactly the same back then which I explain to you something that you find hard to believe and keep rejecting. I really do not see any difference between you people and the people back then who thought science was dark magic and feared knowledge.

Since: May 11

Glasgow, UK

#594774 Jan 28, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not approve of it myself, since you see it this way then ok I'm convinced his theory fails against you, I only wanted to learn more and so did.."What do you think the god would consider a person who lies just to get a "get out of jail free" card? To lie and pretend you believe in a deity just to get on it's good graces would be an insult to that deity and you'd be worse off than ... well atheists." - this just shows me that you actually have feelings and thought about God, IF you believed in one.
Well I'll hopefully have something in the near future I won't forget what u said just now.
If a god is omniscient then someone simply saying they believe while not believing would not actually be getting a get out of jail free card would they because an omnipresent, omnipotent god would know.

One cannot believe in something which you do not believe in.

This is essence Bertrand Russells argument, if a god who knows all is presented with an unbeliever and that unbeliever says honestly, "I examined everything available and I could not believe", is that not more virtuous than the `believer` who simply goes through the motions as an insurance policy?

It`s also why Pascals wager is nonsense, one cannot believe something which one honestly find to be unbelievable.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#594775 Jan 28, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not know what to say, since u are just repeating the same idea..I'll repeat mine. Yes we do not niglect the fact that it is a natural process, however all those process, the rotation of the earth, from the tiniest of all such as viruses who infect, there is nothing in this world that happens without the will of God, "as not only we believe the follow, but pray day and night non-stop to God, everything (creations).

As much as I can appreciate your earnest faith and belief in the divine as a creator.

I must ask you to appreciate that some of us see only rolls of the dice and a cold process devoid of an inspired creator.

And we must agree to differ in this, and that we are incompatible in this respect. We will never agree nor you on this, so whyat purpose will it serve to bring it up repeatedly?
None what so ever.

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

just better than yesterday

#594776 Jan 28, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
"we should not be afraid to talk to God about what he is doing in our lives – good or bad. Job did it. Abraham did it. Moses did it. Even Mary did it when an Angel told her she would have a virgin birth." you are not a prophet, hence able to commit sin, the ones who talked with God are either prophets or messengers that their hearts are impeccable and are incapable of sinning. They have free will, its not that they couldn't sin, its that they wouldn't sin.
As for the rest I simply have another view since I'm not a christian my friend, however I respect your view and hope the best for you. Have faith.
What is a prophet but an imperfect person chosen by God to bring a message.

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