Prove there's a god.

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God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

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#585760
Jan 10, 2013
 
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Intelligent design is an argument from ignorance, not knowledge. It is equal to: Lookie here Jethro, ain't life complex? There must be a god! It's pure ignorance.
It is not the mere complexity of life that leads us to the conclusion my dear Patti Cake.

Its the fact that all this complexity works, that leads us to believe there is an intelligent influence involved.

And it cannot be an argument from ignorance because we do have evidence to support the claim.
Pat wrote:
"HOW COULD LIFE EMERGE SINCE DEATH IS SO SUPERIOR TO LIFE (you sound as if you embrace and glorify death)?"
I do not know exactly how life came to be and neither do you so you can stop pretending you do and admit to not knowing like an HONEST PERSON.
After you tell that to your scientific thinking fellow on here, you can come back to tell me.

They dont seem to share your sentiments.
Pat wrote:
...The present day result of the evolutionary process on earth has resulted in being you call intelligent. This does not imply that the initial chemical reactions or what ever it was that started the process of life on earth was caused by some kind of intelligence.
Uuuuuuuuuuh, yeah it kinda does.

Have you ever seen intelligence emerge by accident?

For intelligence and efficiency to emerge from blind mindless forces is like throwing some paint on a canvas and expecting a "Madonna" or to show up perfectly painted.

I will show you something:

When scientists first saw a figure on Mars that looked like a face, what did they assume: did they assume it was made by other beings or that it evolves into existence?

THE PERSON WHO THINKS THAT INTELLIGENCE EMERGED FROM NOTHING OR MINDLESS PROCESSES ALONE, CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO BE INTELLIGENT.
Pat wrote:
WE DO NOT KNOW. YOUR GOD IS YOUR IGNORANCE.
...
Man goes into the ground and rots after he dies. Explain to me how life after death is different from death if you lack the ability to experience it. We know that awareness requires working senses and a brain to process the information so if you lack awareness to experience it there is no point to any afterlife...
I dint say nor suggest that one lacks the ability to experience the life that comes after death; I suggested the nature of experiences may be different from the ones we have in this present state.

The nature of the experiences in the after-life may be such that memory is redundant/unnecessary.
Pat wrote:
The ASSUMING jackass is you who assumes you are going somehwere after death. Stop attributing your stupid onto me.
"I could tell you what you are open for, but you would probably report me to the forum moderator."
I have thick skin, give it a go.
You assume that life ends in death, which makes you an even bigger jackass; because that which is truly alive is never subject to death.

That which is truly alive will never die; thats what makes it lively.

I presume you will say there is no such that as a thing that cannot die; but I will point out to you that matter-energy cannot be created nor destroyed...

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#585761
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Boy, was I ever wrong.
I figured you were either 15, or in your 80s.
That's still way too young , you know catcher some are barely scooted out from under mommy's apron at 25. They also have more testosterone than brains at that age. But this one must have been raised up by Westboro or something.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

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#585762
Jan 10, 2013
 
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
...That is false and having two words that mean teh very same things serves no functional purpose in the language. Faith may be a belief but it is an irrational belief as it relates to a god. Beliefs can also be rational and based upon knowledge...
"You dont need religion to believe in a thing, but faith is the belief of a thing (that it is x)."
Religious faith is a belief that lacks proof and to admit your belief requires faith is to admit that your belief can not stand on its own merits. In other words it's crap.
Did you like totally dodge English language class?

You obviously have never heard of "synonyms".

Faith is a belief like all other beliefs.

And the value of any belief is determined by its consistency with reality.

So as long as my faith is consistent with what I experience, then my faith is no less valid than the confidence a scientist places in a concept, theory or fact :P
God Himself

Germany

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#585763
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Pat wrote:
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"So let me get this straight; YOU EVIDENCE IS NO EVIDENCE?"
That is correct. If you are going to make a fantastical claim that you have invented an anti gravity machine then the burden is on you to prove it and if you offer no evidence to prove it I am justified in rejecting your claim so until YOU offer proof for your claim, the lack of evidence you provide speaks for itself.
"You cant say that a thing does not exist because there is no evidence for it."
When I claim god does not exist you can offer this argument, until then you are simply proving yourself to be a complete idiot.
"For your information, there was a time when nothing existed; and look what we have here today."
More unsubstantiated bs. You have no knowledge that there was once "nothing" so again you dishonest dunce you can stop lying now.
"The belief that any thing is possible reflects a mind that is in harmony with the nature of a reality;"
The belief that anything is possible is a baseless belief for we do not know that anything is possible. People who hold such a belief do nothing other than prove they can not make any distinction between fantasy and reality.
"Have you read the Bible?"
Yes, have you read the National Enquirer?
"Your obsession with death is however demonstrative of sever depression."
I am not obsessed with death and can face it honestly. You on the other hand have created an entire fantasy based world view around your death denial nonsense so if anybody is obsessed with death it is you.
"I hope you dont kill yourself before I get to... date you"
Are these your christian values shining through? I really do prick your conscience don't I? Good.
I fart up your nose.

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

"tomorrow we win"

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#585764
Jan 10, 2013
 
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>
And cars have insurance. Thank you for proving our point.
Because cars are more dangerous and more valuable.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#585765
Jan 10, 2013
 
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
Where is the evidence to support your claim?:P
<quoted text>
When was the survey conducted; by whom was it conducted?
<quoted text>
You can see that the inability to detect the presence of a thing doesnt mean it does not exist; you suggested that is a recent post. So you too can use your brain properly to think positively and appreciate the concept that God exists too. Are you a dishonest hypocrite?
<quoted text>
Seriously?
How can God be about death denial when He created angels of death?
Do people believe there are aliens on Pluto? Do you?
<quoted text>
Try telling that to evolution theorists.
<quoted text>
Ok, you are so much against the spiritual and the hocus pocu, then you say something like "They consist of a kind of MAGIC aura"?
If you are going to use the word "Magic" why do you have a problem with God and leprechauns and aliens on Pluto?
Either you are suffering PMS issues or you just hate God too much to think rationally about Him.
<quoted text>
Oh you were quoting someone?
But Koestler is not the only person who studied the phenomena; why is it that his conclusion is the only one you present?
Is it that his conclusion is the only one that suits your interest?
If that is the case, I can play that game too:
"Researchers in Spain have found that many of the individuals claiming to see the aura of people –traditionally called "healers" or "quacks"– actually present the neuropsychological phenomenon known as "synesthesia" (specifically, "emotional synesthesia"). This might be a scientific explanation of their alleged "virtue". In synesthetes, the brain regions responsible for the processing of each type of sensory stimuli are intensely interconnected. This way, synesthetes can see or taste a sound, feel a taste, or associate people with a particular colour."
[http://old.richarddawkins.net /articles/645937-scientific-ev idence-proves-why-healers-see- the-aura-of-people]
Also notice the name on the top of the web page when you visit it: "RICHARD DAWKINS".
There are all different kinds of synesthesia.

Notice that the article gives no significance to the colors. Just that their brains are crosswired.
Pat

Granby, CT

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#585766
Jan 10, 2013
 
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
Garbage.
Even if I desire to die, that would not take away my positiveness towards God.
As a matter of fact, I never worry about life after death; I only ask that when its time to die, God allows me to die in peace.
IT IS NOT DEATH THAT I FEAR IT IS SUFFERING THAT I HATE.
You think your little psychology class has prepared you to just refute and debunk the claims of the value of a belief in God to the human mind; but you are wrong.
But if you want to go all psychology I can do it too.
Science suggests that one day all the universe will dissolve into nothingness; it will literally grind to a halt.
So what does that make our efforts to advance scientifically, technologically and all those other -allys?
All our human pursuits are nothing more that a futile attempt to escape the inevitable demise that awaits all; regardless of its potential or status or value.
If I am only denying death; you are only trying to suppress the anxiety induced in your mind by contemplating the meaninglessness of your existence and all your pursuits and efforts, even on Topix.
"You think your little psychology class has prepared you to just refute and debunk the claims of the value of a belief in God to the human mind; but you are wrong."

Yet another baseless assumption for I am simply using logic against your irrational nonsense, nothing more. I have never taken a psychology class.

"Science suggests that one day all the universe will dissolve into nothingness; it will literally grind to a halt.
So what does that make our efforts to advance scientifically, technologically and all those other -allys?
All our human pursuits are nothing more that a futile attempt to escape the inevitable demise that awaits all; regardless of its potential or status or value."

The purpose of life is life itself. We advance because we can and because it makes our lives more enjoyable but by all means till your garden by hand, I'll use my rototiller thank you.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

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#585768
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>If it or any effects is noted, it will likely be a atomic or subatomic altered state(superconductive alignment) which is invisible for all intent(or in a different plane)-that probably being dependant upon temp or density of the transient medium. IMO,,,but who am I?
.. that's where belief systems come into play ..

.. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the error in logic concerning NDEs..

.. science claims the NDE experience is INDUCED by a biological process but it cannot say it is DUE to a biological process ..

.. if you sneeze, is it due to a cold or a reaction to pollen ??..

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

"tomorrow we win"

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#585769
Jan 10, 2013
 
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>
And ownership or insurance will protect everyone. I don't see any problem here. It's called liability insurance for a reason.
Insurance for what reason? Theft?
God Himself

Halethorpe, MD

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#585770
Jan 10, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
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Because cars are more dangerous and more valuable.
I fart up your nose.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

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#585771
Jan 10, 2013
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
OK. There are no perfect gods that make mistakes..
Any idiot can understand that.

And it doesnt take a genius to see that that is true either. what's the point?
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Any claim that such a god exists is self-refuting.
SO whats your real problem, the claims of the perfection of God's Character or the perfection of God's Potentials?

Because a God Who is perfect in power can do anything in any way to any degree; as well as He can choose to do nothing.

A God who is of perfect character is superfluous to the discussion; for character does not determine reality, POWER DOES.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#585772
Jan 10, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
Taxing cigarettes is a ploy to get more money out of people.
Society pays more for their health care, so smokers should pay more taxes
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Poorer people, too. Statistics show that generally lower-income people smoke. People that usually can't afford it.
Is that part of an argument against such taxes?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I think it's a way of deterring smoking by making the cost too high to afford.
The amount of the tax should be at least enough to cover the marginal health care expenses due to smoking. If tax law can be used constructively to deter smoking, then that is a good thing.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#585773
Jan 10, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
Besides, where's all that tax money going? Where's that $25 million a year going? I'd love to see the reports...
I'll bet it's more than 25 million dollars. But yes, government transparency and accountability is a principle I espouse as well. But good luck with that, though.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I do want the government to stay out of smoker's way, and everybody's way. I do not want ALL smoking legislation reversed, you're being absurd.
You're contradicting yourself. Smoking-related laws all either forbid or compel something. You either support that or you don't

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#585774
Jan 10, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
You'd support an excise tax on cheeseburgers because they're fattening & deadly? I'm not surprised.
Not exactly. I would favor it if cheeseburger eating cost society money.

And you consider that wrong? I guess that you expect me to share the tab for cheeseburger habit, too. I'm not surprised.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Then why not a HUGE tax on vehicles? A car puts out more deadly "second hand" fumes in 1 minute than a typical smoker does in a year.
I'm really only qualified to discuss principles, not their implementation. I think that the tax appears in the price of gasoline. You seem to think that your freedom should be free for you or its not freedom.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Ever seen 5 guys in an enclosed room chain smoking & drinking? Yup, none of them dies (that night). Put a car in idle in that same enclosed room and all 5 die.
Is this part of an argument against cigarette taxes? If so, it's a ridiculous one.
God Himself

Dallas, TX

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#585775
Jan 10, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Insurance for what reason? Theft?
I fart up your nose.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#585776
Jan 10, 2013
 

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God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you like totally dodge English language class?
You obviously have never heard of "synonyms".
Faith is a belief like all other beliefs.
And the value of any belief is determined by its consistency with reality.
So as long as my faith is consistent with what I experience, then my faith is no less valid than the confidence a scientist places in a concept, theory or fact :P
If you keep posting you will with each post effectively persuaded us, little by little by whittling away what little reasoning we presumed you had thus thoroughly convincing us.
That you are a genuine blithering idiot.
Pat

Granby, CT

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#585777
Jan 10, 2013
 

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God Himself wrote:
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Well Abraham Lincoln did not know what I know so he was not thinking the way I am thinking.
When a scientists form a hypothesis or a theory, which is then proven to be factual; is he lying?
Because if scientists already knew that their theories and hypothesis were correct, then testing and experimenting would be redundant.
So does the proving of a theory, hypothesis or scientific claim make the scientists wrong?
And if the theory, hypothesis or scientific claim is proven factual; are they accidentally truthful?
What have you been proving, except that you are a facking clown? I should call you DUMBO or DUMB-OH or DUMB-HOE or DUMB-O!
"Well Abraham Lincoln did not know what I know so he was not thinking the way I am thinking."

But what he said was true and applies perfectly to your baseless claims of a god. Your claim of secret knowledge is often where you dishonest theists end up in a debate. You have big ego/small brain disease.

"When a scientists form a hypothesis or a theory, which is then proven to be factual; is he lying?"

Not at all, and if you bothered to look up the definition of a hypothesis or a scientific theory you would understand why little boy.

"So does the proving of a theory, hypothesis or scientific claim make the scientists wrong?"

We have now entered the Twilight Zone....

Look up hypothesis and learn what it means before you try to debate it little boy. A hypothesis is not a claim of any certanties it is asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts. A hypothesis being incorrect does not make the one who offered it a liar.

"What have you been proving, except that you are a facking clown? I should call you DUMBO or DUMB-OH or DUMB-HOE or DUMB-O!"

That's called projection when you do that and you dishonest theists resort to it often as you have already proven. You are an idiot amongst idiots.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#585778
Jan 10, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Society pays more for their health care, so smokers should pay more taxes
<quoted text>
Is that part of an argument against such taxes?
<quoted text>
The amount of the tax should be at least enough to cover the marginal health care expenses due to smoking. If tax law can be used constructively to deter smoking, then that is a good thing.
non smokers live longer so they will receive more benefits , therefore should pay more taxes.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#585779
Jan 10, 2013
 
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
"Theories are abstract and conceptual, and to this end they are always considered true. They are supported or challenged by observations in the world. They are 'rigorously tentative', meaning that they are PROPOSED AS TRUE and EXPECTED to satisfy careful examination to account for the possibility of faulty inference or incorrect observation. SOMETIMES THEORIES ARE INCORRECT, meaning that an explicit set of observations contradicts some fundamental objection or application of the theory, but more often THEORIES ARE CORRECTED TO CONFORM TO NEW OBSERVATIONS, by restricting the class of phenomena the theory applies to or changing the assertions made." [wikipedia.com]
SO not only do scientists ASSUME that the theory is true; they sometimes TWEAK it to make it better reflect reality.
So how come when I accept that the existence of God is true in order to begin learning about Him; you have a problem?
Dont you find the idea of tweaking scientific theory to match reality to constitute intellectual dishonesty?
If what they say is so accurate and scientific; what relevance is there is adding and removing, cutting and pasting?
You need a real hard, long, fat, stiff... drink... in your stomach... so you can relax... and unwind.
You accept the existence of god without any observations.

Correct?

If you have made observations, are they testable?

If so, how?

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

"tomorrow we win"

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#585780
Jan 10, 2013
 

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God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
So if there are no such things nor even the faintest idea, how do you know what you are talking about?
A non-existent cannot be rationally described nor logically represented, for the simple fact that it has no prperties to describe or represent.
So how do you know that the entities with which specific attributes are associated, dont exist?
I face a dilemma in situation like this:
I can either conclude that you are a blabbering fool who just wants to troll; or I can conclude that you are a blabbering fool who just hates God.
Choices choices.
There's no choice, he's both.

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