“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#586084 Jan 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
That was too long to listen to - 75 minutes.
God Himself wrote:
Is that sufficient to refute the claims made on the video?
No. It's sufficient to explain why I don't know what they are.
God Himself wrote:
It takes time to examine both print and imagery. Either you are interested to examine it or you are not.
I'm not really interested in Christian apologetics, but I am willing to examine any new evidence and argument, and evaluate it as impartially as I can

For me to watch a 75 minute video from a Christian resource, you'll have to present it in capsular form first and whet my appetite. I am all too familiar with the ethics and level of scholarship that goes into producing such material, and I really have no interest in it any more.

So what are the video's three best arguments? Do you know? Have you seen it yourself?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#586085 Jan 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Incidentally, how could science ever prove more than that the universe was designed and created? How could it prove that the god that you call "God" was the designer? That evidence is as good for the claim that Odin or Marduk is that god as it is for claim that it is Jehovah.
God Himself wrote:
That is superfluous to the discussion.
The fundamental issue is whether or not the universe was created (by an intelligent agent of sorts). The nature and identity of the agent responsible for the creation is irrelevant.
Really? It doesn't matter if the creator is Jehovah or not? I don't believe that you mean that. Aren't you a Christian?

The practical issue for me is whether to submit to any of the religions. That depends on whether their gods are real or mythical. If there is no Jehovah-Jesus, then Christianity is a fraud.

If all you are trying to show is that some unspecified intelligence may have created our universe - perhaps a race of godlike beings - I probably won't even bother disagreeing.

My practical interest in gods is limited to removing the influence of those that believe in them from the lives of unbelievers, so naturally, I am mostly interested in debunking the claims about the Abrahamic gods.

So, since you have no particular interest in any specific god, you should have no problem acknowledging that Jehovah-Jesus can't possibly exist.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#586086 Jan 11, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I want a sexy party!
In the hot tub!
Pat

Granby, CT

#586087 Jan 11, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I though we had settled this, you never got back to me anyway so O thought you has accepted my statement but perhaps you just ignored the facts that a gun is manufactured as a weapon, a car is manufactured as a mode of transport.
Do you see the difference?
I'm curious as to what this distinction you make points out. Are you claiming a weapon has no merit or valid purpose? Are you claiming a car can not be used as a weapon?
Pat

Granby, CT

#586088 Jan 11, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hahahah!
If the universe is the god, we(earth) must be his azzhole!
Earth would be the azz, Detroit the hole...

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#586089 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Ok...uhm...given my location, please start the hot tub in 18 hours. And provide whiskey and cigars. Plus espresso. I'll be tired.
If you don't make it in time, don't worry. I've got an unbirthday tomorrow.

So long as River, HL, Clementia, and you are all in the tub at the same time, it doesn't matter what day it is.

I'll go fill the hot tub with whiskey now.

I can't wait!

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#586090 Jan 11, 2013
It's all about faith...I have faith in my God and I believe HE exists :)
endtime

AOL

#586091 Jan 11, 2013
.

PROOF Obama's ReElection = ANTICHRIST_______



.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#586092 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =gw8rrsxNxLgXX
(ignore the ugly guys)
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
(pay particular attention to not quite the chorus)
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
(speak Japanese)
Nose bleed!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#586093 Jan 11, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm curious as to what this distinction you make points out. Are you claiming a weapon has no merit or valid purpose? Are you claiming a car can not be used as a weapon?
No, I am saying that a weapon is specifically manufactured as a weapon. With the sole intention of causing injury

Unlike a car, a gun is not manufactured to transport people from point A to point B as efficiently and as comfortably as possible

Consider standing on a busy street and hailing a gun (oops taxi) or hopping in your gun to gun to the mall.

I am not saying that guns do not have a purpose but I am saying that comparing them to a car is not valid logic

Or perhaps we should go down the route of comparing coconuts to sharks, after all more people die of being brained by falling coconuts than are killed by sharks.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#586094 Jan 11, 2013
God Himself wrote:
I am certain that the video contained more information than that.
I agree. So what? I had seen enough. The first argument was badly flawed. I lost confidence in the source and stopped looking further.

Were you expecting me to watch it all? If you feel so strongly about the strength of the video's arguments, why don't you summarize them instead.
God Himself wrote:
As a matter of fact, at the point 6:10, there is mention of a "Big-bang" etc etc.
You haven't seen the video either, have you? That is the same argument six minutes later. I told you that the opening word of the video were, "In the beginning ..." immediately followed by this, "The bible is unique among the documents of ancient history, positing an absolute beginning. The bible boldly asserts that time is finite."

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#586095 Jan 11, 2013
God Himself wrote:
So here I presented you with a video that uses scientific finding to support claims of the existence of God and you post some UTTER BULLSHIT that is totally superfluous to the discussion.
The scientific finding was used is that the universe and time had a beginning. This was offered as evidence that the authors(s) of the Genesis creation were prescient. The claim was made that other traditions claimed that there infinite time into the past, and no first moment.
God Himself wrote:
Why are you mentioning "creation myths", "Greeks, Romans, Buddhists"??? WTF?!
They were part of your resource's argument. Your resource was implying that your bible demonstrated special knowledge as part of an argument that it was the word of the true god. Did you even look at the video?

Hundreds of competing creation myths with first moments put the claim of Christian exceptionalism to the lie.
God Himself wrote:
OUT OF ALL THAT WAS ON THAT VIDEO CLIP, YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT THE ONLY THINGS YOU COULD IDENTIFY ARE THE THAT HAVE NO RELEVANCE TO THE ISSUE BEING DISCUSSED?!!!!
No. I'm telling you that the video wasn't good enough to watch further.
Pat

Granby, CT

#586096 Jan 11, 2013
jamesfraser wrote:
It's all about faith...I have faith in my God and I believe HE exists :)
To bad it's faith though, for that proves your beliefs are without merit.
Pat

Granby, CT

#586097 Jan 11, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I am saying that a weapon is specifically manufactured as a weapon. With the sole intention of causing injury
Unlike a car, a gun is not manufactured to transport people from point A to point B as efficiently and as comfortably as possible
Consider standing on a busy street and hailing a gun (oops taxi) or hopping in your gun to gun to the mall.
I am not saying that guns do not have a purpose but I am saying that comparing them to a car is not valid logic
Or perhaps we should go down the route of comparing coconuts to sharks, after all more people die of being brained by falling coconuts than are killed by sharks.
I'm sorry but I still don't get your point. Do you really think anybody on here does not understand that a gun is intended to be used as a weapon and a car as a mode of transportation?

"I am not saying that guns do not have a purpose but I am saying that comparing them to a car is not valid logic"

That would depend on the purpose of the comparison, no? If one is arguing that a car can just as easily be used as a weapon to injure, then that is a very logical comparison. If one is claiming a gun is as good as a car for transportation then it would be illogical, comprende?

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#586098 Jan 11, 2013
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
The value of love and kindness depends on the nature of the world.
In a Godless world as those people would have it, there is no true purpose; especially since the universe is destined to come to nothingness.
So love and kindness has no real meaning for those people; they use love and kindness in a manner that is known as "Emotivism".
So dont be offended when I speak to them harshly, they arent offended.
You don't understand.

I find YOU to be offensive.

Downright nasty.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#586099 Jan 11, 2013
God Himself wrote:
So let me get this straight; logic is not sufficient to prove the existence of a thing, but but yet logic is sufficient to rule out the existence of a thing?
Logic can prove mathematical truths, and with evidence, physical truths.

Logic can also rule out some claims.
God Himself wrote:
The possessor of that logic is doomed to suffer because survival favours the positive, not those that rule things out; because it is possibility that things are and will be, that supports survival.
Nope.

You're referring to a primitive survival strategy. If you assign agency to an unfamiliar sensation or other phenomenon, you will survive longer than if you don't. Hearing a leaf crunch causes one animal to run, but not the other, and the runner lives whenever that sound was caused by a potential predator.

But we can do better than that, can't we?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#586100 Jan 11, 2013
God Himself wrote:
So not only have you decided not to reproduce, you have subject yourself to a negative method of thought?
I have two adult daughters.

And critical thought is not negative thought.
God Himself wrote:
So where is the experiment that is used to test for God.
Your god? Topix is an adequate lab for that. Your bible promises that belief in your god will give you a peace that passeth all understanding and fruits of the spirit including love, joy, peace, and forbearance. That's the hypothesis. Let us collect data and analyze it.

[1] Forum carlsbad worte: "He probably hates you as much as I do."
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE...

[2] Just Results wrote: "when your carcass is thrown into Hell. I get to watch. I get to laugh. I'm willing to wait."
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE...

[3] KJV wrote: "You see we just want to make sure that while you're not in heaven but in the other place we want you to relive all of these moments that put you there. To haunt you for all eternity while flames burn the flesh off of your bones."
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...

These data disconfirm the biblical promise that belief in the Christian god will produce peace that passeth all understanding. The hypothesis is "busted."

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#586101 Jan 11, 2013
God Himself wrote:
But you assume that you are able to know what the state of perfection entails, and you dont.
I know imperfection when I see it. Building a torture chamber, manning it with an infinitely monstrous inquisitor, and forcing souls to remain conscious to feel themselves falling into fire from which they can never escape for the sin of not believing in an invisible and AWOL god is a tad short of any clear thinking person's definition of perfect justice, perfect love, or perfect mercy.

You can't make me believe otherwise.
God Himself wrote:
What would a perfect rock be like?
Perfect for what? Throwing? It shouldn't be too big. Killing? It should be bigger than a throwing rock.
God Himself wrote:
Do you know that the world is no perfect by God's standard of perfection?
That's another argument against a perfect god existing. Perfect gods don't create imperfect things.
God Himself wrote:
And while God is in himself perfect; what need would He have to seek perfection or establish it anywhere else outside Himself?
Apparently he needs to be praised, and can't abide sinners in heaven.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#586102 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are claiming that the universe came out of nowhere, but that you'd like to believe your imagined deity was behind it all?
I am saying that the fact that the universe came out of nowhere, makes the idea of a "Intelligent Agent" that made all out of nothing, plausible
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Why go to such lengths? Why bother with imagining a deity and then pretending that a universe requires a deity to exist?
What?

"Pretending that the universe requires..?"

So how exactly do you know that the universe does not require a God to exist?

How many universes have you created in a lab without God?

And if you did manage to create any universes without a God; wouldnt you be the God of that universe?
Hidingfromyou wrote:
If you've just demonstrated that something can come from nothing...then you can give up your silly deity ideas.
;)
And that will make you happy.
But to say that "something came from nothing" is not the same as saying "nothing caused something to happen"; so the idea of deity remains relevant to the discussion.

I have not demonstrated that something can come from nothing; have I? Show me how/where.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#586103 Jan 11, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't understand.
I find YOU to be offensive.
Downright nasty.
Catcher, my good man, he is a poohhead. Perhaps even a poohface. You never can tell with these ones.

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