Prove there's a god.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#586053 Jan 11, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
If you're gonna use health care costs as a reason, start at the top - fat. Fat people cost the health care industry a lot more than smokers do. How many fat diabetics are out there that cost us money their whole life?
Is that an argument against taxing cigarettes?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Why are you advocating a sin tax, excuse me an excise tax, on fattening food? Gimme a break...
This is what we call a diversion. You apparently don't like the idea of a tax on cigarettes, so you change the subject by generalizing it and refocusing on a different element of health care costs.

Remember, our discussion was never about tax policy or even health care costs. It began with your claim that, "smoking is a CHOICE that the f_cking government should stay out of." I disagreed then, and still do now.

BTW, did you mean "aren't advocating"?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#586055 Jan 11, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
What I do not support is the government taking tax money from cigarettes because they say cigarettes "kill"...
Good. Me, neither. And to my knowledge, that doesn't happen.

My argument for taxing cigarettes is based on the marginal health care expenditures associated with the practice, not that they kill. It's probably more accurate to say that the tax is because cigarettes wound, not kill. Death is much less expensive.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
... but they won't put excise taxes on other things that we consume that also kill. It's completely unfair and completely dishonest.
You mean wound, right? Dying is your business. Getting sick on the public dollar is everybody's.

If that is your burden - a system which tries to identify costly life style choices and taxing proportionately where possible - go for it. Petition Congress.

But my focus was on whether "smoking is a CHOICE that the f_cking government should stay out of" or not.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#586056 Jan 11, 2013
River Tam wrote:
Did it walk funny?
Very.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#586058 Jan 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I would favor it [surcharge on cheeseburgers] if cheeseburger eating cost society money.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
What?! You think people eating cheeseburgers all the time doesn't cost society money?!
What?! No,I don't!
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Cholesterol kills more people than cigarettes do.
Perhaps. So what?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
My grandma never smoked a cigarette in her whole life. She was in the hospital for four months before she died. She ended up costing Medicare over $2 million. Why? Because she ate fattening foods her whole life. My grandma loved cheeseburgers, fried chicken, pizza, candy bars, soda, and so on. She loved it so much that it eventually killed her.
Sorry to hear that.

And that's a nice illustration of what I was talking about regarding end-of-life health care costs for the chronically ill. Apparently my half million dollar figure was a lowball estimate. I think Aura Mytha wanted her to pay fewer taxes for living fewer years.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#586059 Jan 11, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
So again, why are you out there advocating a sin tax of fattening foods?
Because I don't advocate sin taxes, for one thing. That implies punishment.

For another, I don't really have a burden for - or even much interest in - American excise tax law. You may recall that my interest was more about whether "smoking is a CHOICE that the f_cking government should stay out of."

I am more interested in this phenomenon of indiscriminate government-bashing by many American conservatives.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#586060 Jan 11, 2013
God Himself wrote:
So you are saying that you utterly fail to see the idea of making "...reference to questioning the reality of the soil beneath..." in the expression "There are ways to question the reality of the very soil that people walk on, so there is no shortage of ways to question the reality of God"?
No. You just did, though.
God Himself wrote:
Or maybe by "message sent" you mean the impression that was formed on/in your mind?
OK.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
The message is that all kinds of thinking are equally valid or invalid.
God Himself wrote:
And they have good reason for saying that. The nature the human structure and his capacities of perception are such that the mind NEVER experiences the full or objective reality directly or 'intimately'.
That's an argument that we don't know everything, not that all kinds of thinking are equally valid or invalid.
God Himself wrote:
Go ask any 7th grade biology student and they will tell you that the mind interprets what the body feeds into it; the mind itself does not experience the reality directly.
Thats why philosophy is crucial!
You're preaching to the choir. But your words are still not part a cogent argument that that all kinds of thinking are equally valid or invalid.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#586061 Jan 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Because I don't advocate sin taxes, for one thing. That implies punishment.
For another, I don't really have a burden for - or even much interest in - American excise tax law. You may recall that my interest was more about whether "smoking is a CHOICE that the f_cking government should stay out of."
I am more interested in this phenomenon of indiscriminate government-bashing by many American conservatives.
Were we to be honest as a society and look at these addictions, we'd not be able to put the blame solely on individual behavior, since man, many more factors are at work here, such as social pressure, marketing, ignorance (the expense of education), media (TV people are so healthy as they eat/smoke), poverty, capitalism, laws, political economy, etc.

I only point these out to you because you, unlike other posters, would understand, not to lay blame. You've already taken the high road here.

As an aside, I was considering buying some cigars tonight. Didn't. But, wow, given my house guests for the past few weeks, I really want one!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#586062 Jan 11, 2013
God Himself wrote:
We need people who are philosophically inclined to examine " knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language" ( wikipedia.com ), to make sure people like you dont get away with the crap you cultivate in those twisted minds of yours.
Thanks for all you do.
God Himself wrote:
So if one cannot be certain of the reality of a thing, how can one proceed to conclude that the history is real?
Except that pragmatically, we can be certain of the reality of many things. Philosophical uncertainty - Cartesian doubt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_doubt - is not grounds for nihilism.

You're right about this philosophy stuff. Thanks.
God Himself wrote:
What is the difference between the image formed when you imagine and the image formed when you observe an object in the outer world? THEY ARE BOTH FORMED IN THE MIND.
The only difference is with the persistence of the images; the image that is formed from an external object tends to remain longer than the ones you imagine.
Nope.

There are many more differences besides persistence. The real world object is vivid, more detailed, can often be inspected from various angles and with different lighting, and more. I guess that you weren't aware of any of that when you wrote that, "The only difference is with the persistence of the images."
God Himself wrote:
The body can hardly distinguish between what is concrete and what is imaginary.
Ask your doctor if Abilify is right for you.
Pat

East Granby, CT

#586063 Jan 11, 2013
Freebird USA wrote:
<quoted text>
Diety exists outside the natural realm. If the universe or multiverse can be eternal a being can be eternal.
You have no basis to claim anything exists outside the natural realm you foolish liar.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#586064 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Were we to be honest as a society and look at these addictions, we'd not be able to put the blame solely on individual behavior, since man, many more factors are at work here, such as social pressure, marketing, ignorance (the expense of education), media (TV people are so healthy as they eat/smoke), poverty, capitalism, laws, political economy, etc.
I only point these out to you because you, unlike other posters, would understand, not to lay blame. You've already taken the high road here.
As an aside, I was considering buying some cigars tonight. Didn't. But, wow, given my house guests for the past few weeks, I really want one!
Are you hosting mafia?

Coolz.

Thanks for coming back for my birthday.
Pat

East Granby, CT

#586065 Jan 11, 2013
Amish wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus is a historic fact recorded by all the historians of the day. The Bible says he is God & Creator. The Bible is then confirmed with a long HISTORY & SCIENCE.
The commies have no interest in the truth of the matter.
Then explain why there is not a single mention of Jesus in the historical record from the time when he supposedly lived. Your Jesus is a fictional character created generations after he supposedly lived and you a liar.
Pat

East Granby, CT

#586066 Jan 11, 2013
Freebird USA wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatever,eternal being or eternal multiverse,its all the same.
Oh, so now your god = universe? Then I will agree with you, there is a god.
Pat

East Granby, CT

#586067 Jan 11, 2013
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
You obviously have no knowledge of anything regarding the nature of the universe regarding science.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =VX7kPOYr5L0XX
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
The next time you mention anything about science, I will get really angry.
Do not accuse science of causing your lunacy.
Do not blame me for your low IQ, you can blame your god for that.

Pulsating Universe Theory: According to this theory, the universe is supposed to be expanding and contracting alternately i.e. pulsating. At present, the universe is
Pulsating Theory
expanding. According to pulsating theory, it is possible that at a certain time, then expansion of the universe may be stopped by the gravitational pull and the may contract again. After it has been contracted to a certain size, explosion again occurs and the universe will start expanding. The alternate expansion and contraction of the universe give rise to pulsating universe.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#586068 Jan 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Although no theory can be proved, evolutionary theory comes as close as you can. It can't be upturned without discovering something as dramatic as a Matrix reality or Last Thursdayism being the case, or uncovering a trickster god that wanted us to believe that life had evolved
God Himself wrote:
So even though the theory cannot be proven, it cannot be upturned? GTFO!!!!
No. Read it again. The theory can be upturned in any of the ways enumerated.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
How about this post serving as proof that somebody is posting on Topix today using the name "It aint necessarily so"?
God Himself wrote:
I could be in a dream which entails me refuting arguments advanced by a thing that is manifested as "It aint necessarily so". Dreams can be quite vivid
OK.

See above about Matrix realities. They are always logically possible.

You seem to have a disabling definition for proof and reality, one which separates you from reality. But that is what your priests are attempting to do in the first place, isn't it?
God Himself wrote:
Questioning the the reality of the soil beneath my feet does not prevent me from walking. Questioning the reality of the soil beneath my feet helps me to understand the nature of that which is concrete. Evidence is never sufficient to prove anything; which is why faith/belief is crucial in the knowledge process. There is a point where you must decide which you find more acceptable,.
I reject religious faith.

Your "reality" is a pipe dream based on wishful thinking, indoctrination, and years of filtering your perceptions through a powerful and irrational confirmation bias.

The result is diffuse and confused thinking that wants to assign equal validity to all epistemological methods, essentially by calling them all invalid.

Rationalism and empiricism are superior to fideism as ways of knowing. Rational skepticism is superior to passive, uncritical thought.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#586069 Jan 11, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you hosting mafia?
Coolz.
Thanks for coming back for my birthday.
Maruko says "tanjobi omedetou gozaimasu beotch!"

Happy Birthday Tide!!!

What would you like for your birthday???

http://www.google.co.jp/imgres...

http://www.google.co.jp/imgres...
Greens - Tuf

Annandale, Australia

#586070 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Were we to be honest as a society and look at these addictions, we'd not be able to put the blame solely on individual behavior, since man, many more factors are at work here, such as social pressure, marketing, ignorance (the expense of education), media (TV people are so healthy as they eat/smoke), poverty, capitalism, laws, political economy, etc.
I only point these out to you because you, unlike other posters, would understand, not to lay blame. You've already taken the high road here.
As an aside, I was considering buying some cigars tonight. Didn't. But, wow, given my house guests for the past few weeks, I really want one!
You put it out there. You envisioned the cigar relief, your guests were just your fill in (illusion) for your ultimate release, that was you're desire for "something"at the end.
A release at the end, an emotional but personal time of data collection of the human brain to comprehend what has just happened.These people seem normal, until living with them.
" Why do I feel more than ever that I am more sane than anybody else ?" , you say.
That's the illusion, we all think each other is wrong or crazy because we look or think differently. What you think,they think.
That's called One.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#586071 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Maruko says "tanjobi omedetou gozaimasu beotch!"
Happy Birthday Tide!!!
What would you like for your birthday???
http://www.google.co.jp/imgres...
http://www.google.co.jp/imgres...
I want a sexy party!

In the hot tub!

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#586072 Jan 11, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Guns don't perform actions any more than cars do.
I though we had settled this, you never got back to me anyway so O thought you has accepted my statement but perhaps you just ignored the facts that a gun is manufactured as a weapon, a car is manufactured as a mode of transport.

Do you see the difference?
Pat

East Granby, CT

#586073 Jan 11, 2013
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
I find it interesting that someone would try so earnestly to believe in nothing.
You are a person of strange courage.
I hope you find peace in the nothing you believe in.
I hope your corpse meets its inevitable end as you so passionately demand; an event as meaningless as every thought that you are anything more than a corpse.
I tried to say something good, but thats what the best wishes to a facking psychopath like yourself sounds like.
It sounds like the eulogy read for a dead vampire by his... clansmen or clans-vampire... whatever the fack it is.
That's because you are a dishonest fool. Atheism for me is the lack of belief in god, it is not a belief in nothing. I could keep explaining this for you but unfortunately I can not understand it for you.

"I hope you find peace in the nothing you believe in.
I hope your corpse meets its inevitable end as you so passionately demand"

That is the main difference between an honest person like myself and a dishonest theist like you. You let all your hopes and desires get in the way and this keeps you from looking at this one particular issue, the issue of your mortality, honestly and objectivley. I am guided by reason and side with the facts, you are guided by emotion and personal desires and will side with whatever you want to side with, with no concern for the facts. I never once have said I desire death to be final and you know it. What you are doing when you make such a dishonest remark is projecting your faulty logic onto me, claiming my beliefs, like yours, are driven by my personal desires. I am guided by reason, you are not, you are guided by blind ignorant faith.
Pat

East Granby, CT

#586074 Jan 11, 2013
Greens - Tuf wrote:
<quoted text> "Science feels it will stop expanding and begin to contract but that is a change, not an end"
I didn't realize a feeling can be seen as science? My gut feeling tells me you are struggling in this debate, so I guess that is a scientific assumption of mine.
Science may be a puzzle to you, but I bet you have a firm grip on supernatural magic.

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