Prove there's a god.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574516 Dec 17, 2012
Susie D wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, discipline is not punishment.
This is telling.

To me, they are the same. They are both administering a disincentive to modify future behavior.

I'm guessing that the way that they can seem different to you is if you consider punishment payment for prior bad deeds rather than a disincentive to discourage future bad deeds.

That's retribution, which is a prominent meme in Christian psychology. I think we discussed this - Catcher did most prominently - when discussing the rationale for incarceration. Disincentive to others not to do the same, yes. Remove a menace from the streets, yes. Rehab an offender, yes, if only we knew how.

But revenge? Payback. Punishment for its own sake? That's where the Christians and humanists parted ways. We see that kind of thinking as flawed and counterproductive, whereas it it is central in Christian doctrine. What is hell for if not to administer pointless and useless suffering?

Of course, people raised in that ethic want prison to be as brutal as possible, too. So, even though the official punishment by the court was loss of liberty, in the absence of a humanist presence in the prison, the actual punishment will include rape, terror, degradation, violence, and every other idea also associated with hell.
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

#574517 Dec 17, 2012
Laconic Assassins wrote:
<quoted text>That is odd, because Jesus a Jew said that he did, the original Christians, Jews, also said that he did. Sorry, you are wrong, the OT is not just for Jews. It is for Christians, and the first Christians were Jews. You are confused by Gentiles and Christians. So, that when the Gentiles joined the Jews as Christians, all the things of the OT became a part of the covenant. Jesus fulfilled the laws of the OT, he did not abolish them.
just a note, It was for also the original Hebrews. Jews and hebrews are not the same. When King Solomon died, a civil war broke out between the 10 northern tribes and the 2 tribes to the south. The 2 tribes were the tribe of Ben and the tribe of juda. The new nation was name, Judea, while the north remain Israel. The north was conquered by Syria and the people "disappeared". The people of Judea were then called judeans and then Jews for short. Prophet Jerimah said the the bulk of "Israel" went to the isles north and west of the city of the Lord. Look at a map and see were they went. Then think of some of the legends of the templars.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#574518 Dec 17, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you gonna quote the OT or the NJB?
Make up your mind.
hahahahaaa

Are you acting?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574519 Dec 17, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
That was priceless.

Poor jesus. Struck down by Zeus. Or was it Thor?
Thor. He tosses the thunder and lightning (which, incidentally, are donner and blitzen in German, another pagan intrusion into Christimas)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Mock26... [cartoon with caption]

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574520 Dec 17, 2012
Susie D wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, discipline is not punishment.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
To me, they are the same. They are both administering a disincentive to modify future behavior.
So when you discipline yourself to brush your teeth every day, you're also punishing yourself?

Or how about when you discipline yourself to make the bed every morning? Oh the horrors of punishment.....

Grow up.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574521 Dec 17, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
hahahahaaa
Are you acting?
NO, you keep bouncing back and forth on what scripture you feel like reading.

That's all you, dude.

Make up your mind...

You can't say that Jesus didn't fulfill prophecy. He did. Maybe not to Jews, but to Christians, He did.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574523 Dec 17, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Through all that, the one key word to you is punishment?
You're sad.
Retributive punishment is as central to Christian psychology as obedience and submission. They're practically one idea, and they play prominently and continually from the Garden to Armageddon, and everywhere in between, including the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, the plagues, wandering in the desert as punishment, the Babylonian captivity, the lost tribes, and the crucifixion - all punishments for wickedness and disobedience. It's one long spanking for man from this god.

But you think that Kitten's point of view regarding punishment is sad, do you?
endtime

AOL

#574524 Dec 17, 2012
.

PROOF Obama's ReElection = ANTICHRIST_______

&fe ature=plcp

.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#574525 Dec 17, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
NO, you keep bouncing back and forth on what scripture you feel like reading.
That's all you, dude.
Make up your mind...
You can't say that Jesus didn't fulfill prophecy. He did. Maybe not to Jews, but to Christians, He did.
Any translation of the OT/Tanakh is the OT.

NJB, KJV, NIV etc...

The Jesus didn't fulfill OT prophecy.

It isn't just to the Jews, its very clear the Jesus didn't fulfill these prophecies:
Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9, Psalms 37:4, Jeremiah 31:33, Zephaniah 3:9, Ezekiel 40, Ezekiel 39:9, Ezekiel 16:55, Zechariah 8:23, Isaiah 52:13-53:5, Isaiah 52:7, Isaiah 51:11, Isaiah 25:8, Isaiah 11:12, Isaiah 11:10, Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 11:4, Isaiah 11:2, Isaiah 11:1, 1 Chronicles 22:8-10, 2 Chronicles 7:18, Isaiah 2:17, Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 1:26

No matter which translation it comes from. No matter if it's Judaism or Christianity, Ba'hai, Islam etc...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574526 Dec 17, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
BTW, Christmas isn't about the fat guy, reindeer or the elves..........
It is now - in America, anyway.

Did you catch the discussion about how Wal-Mart is making the Mexican Christmas, which is still wise men with camels in robes in the desert in search of a manger and a baby, but is being marketed American style since a Wal-Mart opened up a few years ago. Though still affecting less than 5% of the homes, every year we see more Christmas lights and more Christmas trees.

You're pretty proud of your country,right? It's largest retailer is turning Mexico's desert holiday into the American ice holiday. Ho ho ho![Or as they say here, Jo, jo, jo!]

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#574527 Dec 17, 2012
Laconic Assassins wrote:
I doubt you have a clue about what church either of us belong to.
Christian?
Laconic Assassins wrote:
You gays are not our friends. And that opinion is the result of my compassion for man.
Yep, Christian.

Since: Jan 11

United States

#574528 Dec 17, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
This is telling.
To me, they are the same. They are both administering a disincentive to modify future behavior.
I'm guessing that the way that they can seem different to you is if you consider punishment payment for prior bad deeds rather than a disincentive to discourage future bad deeds.
That's retribution, which is a prominent meme in Christian psychology. I think we discussed this - Catcher did most prominently - when discussing the rationale for incarceration. Disincentive to others not to do the same, yes. Remove a menace from the streets, yes. Rehab an offender, yes, if only we knew how.
But revenge? Payback. Punishment for its own sake? That's where the Christians and humanists parted ways. We see that kind of thinking as flawed and counterproductive, whereas it it is central in Christian doctrine. What is hell for if not to administer pointless and useless suffering?
Of course, people raised in that ethic want prison to be as brutal as possible, too. So, even though the official punishment by the court was loss of liberty, in the absence of a humanist presence in the prison, the actual punishment will include rape, terror, degradation, violence, and every other idea also associated with hell.
Well said.

I brought up a point to RR on another thread about the Christian majority impeding progress. He is still asking why a non-believer would spend so much time arguing about something they don't believe in. This is just one of many reasons why a non-believer would care about what believers do, and even about what they believe.

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#574529 Dec 17, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
They still do that in the middle east. They use their left hand. They eat with their right.
Pretty clever of them, eh?
make RR's X with the left

just as he has asked

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574530 Dec 17, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Retributive punishment is as central to Christian psychology as obedience and submission. They're practically one idea, and they play prominently and continually from the Garden to Armageddon, and everywhere in between, including the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, the plagues, wandering in the desert as punishment, the Babylonian captivity, the lost tribes, and the crucifixion - all punishments for wickedness and disobedience. It's one long spanking for man from this god.
But you think that Kitten's point of view regarding punishment is sad, do you?
No. It was her point of view regarding discipline. Yours too.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574531 Dec 17, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Any translation of the OT/Tanakh is the OT.
NJB, KJV, NIV etc...
The Jesus didn't fulfill OT prophecy.
It isn't just to the Jews, its very clear the Jesus didn't fulfill these prophecies:
Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9, Psalms 37:4, Jeremiah 31:33, Zephaniah 3:9, Ezekiel 40, Ezekiel 39:9, Ezekiel 16:55, Zechariah 8:23, Isaiah 52:13-53:5, Isaiah 52:7, Isaiah 51:11, Isaiah 25:8, Isaiah 11:12, Isaiah 11:10, Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 11:4, Isaiah 11:2, Isaiah 11:1, 1 Chronicles 22:8-10, 2 Chronicles 7:18, Isaiah 2:17, Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 1:26
No matter which translation it comes from. No matter if it's Judaism or Christianity, Ba'hai, Islam etc...
Isaiah 51:3..... The Lord didn't comfort Zion?

Need I go on?

Are you quit done with your weeklong nitpick rant?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#574532 Dec 17, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
It is now - in America, anyway.
Did you catch the discussion about how Wal-Mart is making the Mexican Christmas, which is still wise men with camels in robes in the desert in search of a manger and a baby, but is being marketed American style since a Wal-Mart opened up a few years ago. Though still affecting less than 5% of the homes, every year we see more Christmas lights and more Christmas trees.
You're pretty proud of your country,right? It's largest retailer is turning Mexico's desert holiday into the American ice holiday. Ho ho ho![Or as they say here, Jo, jo, jo!]
Um.....

*hint*. Walmart isn't America, it's a big business that'll take you for every dime if you let them.

Santa sells. Presents make businesses money. They'll market anything if its hit a good ROI.

Christmas isn't supposed to be about presents & ho's.......

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#574533 Dec 17, 2012
Laconic Assassins wrote:
<quoted text>So, what church would that be? It appears that you are dealing with the disgust and contempt of your own life. I doubt you have a clue about what church either of us belong to.
No, as usual, it is you and your ilk who confused conpassion with being friendly. You gays are not our friends. And that opinion is the result of my compassion for man.
Wrong again, you only need make your best case for what suits your mind, and only truth and God will prevail.
there is no truth in faith

there are no ethics in christianity

you play at insane poorly, your lack of inetllect leading the way.

you are obviously gay, and there is nothing wrong with that, even jesus the christ was gay.

you need counseling, the very first thing that would help you, is intervention that would release you from the grips of the hate cult embed in your psyche.
Huh

Ballwin, MO

#574534 Dec 17, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Susie D wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, discipline is not punishment.
<quoted text>
So when you discipline yourself to brush your teeth every day, you're also punishing yourself?
Or how about when you discipline yourself to make the bed every morning? Oh the horrors of punishment.....
Grow up.
Equivocation fallacy. Discipline has many meanings. It can also mean a vocation or skill. Why do theists always resort to equivocation fallacies? Oh yeah, dishonesty. It's the main tenet of the religion.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#574535 Dec 17, 2012
Laconic Assassins wrote:
<quoted text>No, it is simply an excuse for you not to say Christ.
Gesundheit

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#574536 Dec 17, 2012
Flagler Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheists are the only cult in the world that is offended by what they consider a myth. I take it they are second guessing their delusion and not expressing enough faith that Christ/God/Heaven/Hell are mythical.
Do you find this as comical as I do??? LOL
kristian klown kursing the wind

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