Prove there's a god.

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Since: May 11

Nottingham, UK

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#573549
Dec 15, 2012
 

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United in faith wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL thats so funny. spelling is the bases on which you decide who's who on here........thats hallarious.
no...it isn't hilarious at all.

What booots is referring to is very real, it's called the 'idolect' which is the 'thing' which is used to identify the author of a text in forensic linguistics.

It is a recognised area of forensic linguistics and while I concede that no one here to my knowledge is a specialist, I have used a forensic linguist and a graphologist to prove that a letter was dictated by a female and written by a male(That case made the law reports I was quite chuffed).

Consensus would seem to show that you aren't fooling anyone and if one were to cover your new bogus avatar and ID replacing it with one of Old Yellers' or Pattiecakes'...no regular poster could tell the difference.

You 'obcess'[sic] about the same subject matter, you post at the same time, your spelling errors and basic misunderstandings of words terms and context are exactly the same as those of the poster of whom you say you are not.

You showed up four hours before Old Yeller said she was hanging up her keyboard and it's like she never left. Sometimes if it waddles, quacks and has a beak...it's a duck.

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

Boss of the Inland Empire

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#573550
Dec 15, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Would it? Indentured servant refers to a person who sold themselves for a period of time to pay for their debt.
Does this count:
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)"
Perhaps you were refering to this:
"If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare,'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.(Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
Of course, that's qualified with:
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)"
So...ah...no, I don't think most of the above cases are indentured servants.
But let's pretend that they are. Do you believe that a perfectly moral being should condone indentured servitude or hold His chosen people to a higher moral standard?
Also we need to consider what you mean by "higher moral standard" your idea will be different than mine and both of ours will be different from someone a hundred years from now. I can tell you that as I sit here, in my pj's drinking coffee in my comfortable recliner, the thought of slavery is repulsive. What would my thoughts be if I was born in a different time and in a different culture?

“I won, I won, I won!!!”

Since: Mar 11

Who? Me, me, me!

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#573551
Dec 15, 2012
 
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
I read Scar's post AFTER I posted.
To answer your question, yes I do have a problem with the act of Slavery or owning another person.
Scar's post? Did he write what I wrote? Sorry, I didn't read it. I should, I like Scar's posts :)

I'm glad you do! I never doubted that you would.

So how does that change your interpretation of the Bible? How do you reconcile your disapproval of slavery versus God's rules for it?

Since: Apr 09

Elmont, Long Island NY

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#573552
Dec 15, 2012
 
Laconic Assassins wrote:
<quoted text>Such anger, little turf rub. Calm down, you have no proof that your mommy loves you.
A)In what chapter or verse did God say that He was omniscient and omnipotent.
B) Again, chapter and verse.
c) Since, you alone have this knowledge, then present chapter and verse and all evidence to scientist, so they can prove that God does not exist.
#1) So far, neither science nor you have proven that God does not exist.
Enjoy Hell, you get what you ask for.
I often hear the comment, "Science has proved there is no God." What a funny statement for a neophyte to make. Science is completely incapable of proving such a thing.
I'm not saying that because I don't like science, but rather because I know a little about how science works. Science operates on induction. The inductive method entails searching out things in the world and drawing generalized conclusions about those things based on observation. Scientists can only draw conclusions on what they find, not on what they can't find.
Science, by its very nature, is never capable of proving the non-existence of anything.
For example, can science prove there are no unicorns? Absolutely not. How could science ever prove that unicorns don't exist? All science can do is say that scientists may have been looking for unicorns for a long time and never found any. They might therefore conclude that no one is justified in believing that unicorns exist. They might show how certain facts considered to be evidence for unicorns in the past can be explained adequately by other things. They may invoke Occam's Razor to favor a simpler explanation for the facts than that unicorns exist. But scientists can never prove unicorns themselves don't exist.
Since science, by its very nature, is never capable of proving the non-existence of anything, one can never accurately claim that science has proven God doesn't exist. That's a misuse of the discipline. Such a claim would require omniscience. The only way one can say a thing does not exist is not by using the inductive method, but by using a deductive method, by showing that there's something about the concept itself that is contradictory.
<SMILE>
NAH....TOO FUNNY. LOL, OR "LAY" for "Laughing At You"
I do believe that most people who are atheist don't make the claim that science has proven there is no god, only that there is no evidence that god exists and plenty of evidence/logic that he doesn't exist

“I won, I won, I won!!!”

Since: Mar 11

Who? Me, me, me!

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#573553
Dec 15, 2012
 
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
Also we need to consider what you mean by "higher moral standard" your idea will be different than mine and both of ours will be different from someone a hundred years from now. I can tell you that as I sit here, in my pj's drinking coffee in my comfortable recliner, the thought of slavery is repulsive. What would my thoughts be if I was born in a different time and in a different culture?
It's not that difficult if we, together, ask "is slavery the best possible outcome for the most possible people?" and "can we say that slavery is moral, if we define moral as avoiding misery and encouraging happiness?"

The thing is, Al, you claim to worship a perfectly moral being. Do you believe a perfectly moral being would condone slavery? I don't. I can't see that. Slavery is bad for most people, good for a few. I can't see that as a morally justifiable activity.

If you don't claim that God is perfectly moral, then I have no problems with your logic (I would have problems with your worship, though - I think that only perfectly moral beings would be worthy of worship).

Let's take the Mayans, for example. They quite clearly did not worship perfectly moral beings - they engaged in human sacrifice and all kinds of pain inducing activities, including slavery. I seriously doubt they shared the concept of morality with us. And I know that they thought of their deities as humanlike, with humanlike failures - so, not perfect.

You can't really argue with that. Yes, I disagree, but their logic isn't at fault - the "I worship this thing, this beast, in this terrible manner, because it is what I believe and not because it is perfectly morally right" is, at least, honest.

Alternatively, you could take the view that the OT was incorrect and didn't represent God accurately. That would be acceptable, too, but then you'd be tossing out the OT. That's no problem for me. I have no investment here.

The reality is that contemporary Christians simply don't read the Bible too closely. They find the parts that work for them, that mean something to them and ignore the rest. That's life - it's just that the Christians here won't admit that. And, if you look as closely as we atheists do, then you have all kinds of worrisome problems to deal with. So most Christians just avoid these issues.

It doesn't really affect their life, right?

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

Boss of the Inland Empire

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#573554
Dec 15, 2012
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Scar's post? Did he write what I wrote? Sorry, I didn't read it. I should, I like Scar's posts :)
I'm glad you do! I never doubted that you would.
So how does that change your interpretation of the Bible? How do you reconcile your disapproval of slavery versus God's rules for it?
It is difficult for me to reconcile it to be honest. But I have to try to take it in context. Doesn't science state that Change is the law of nature? I'm sure that would include the definition and application of morality. It evolves as society and/or government changes.

Think about nudity in the Greek or Roman era's for example Hiding. It was morally accepted at that time and there was no issue with it. Today it would be unthinkable. You or I may not have a problem walking around naked and see no shame in our bodies but that's not the way society today sees it. We would both be hauled off to the pokey and locked up for indecent exposure and we would just sit on the grimy benches nekked.

Moral values are our current perception of the standards of good and evil. How is your perception or mine any more valid than the Greeks at that time? Were the Greeks perception of nudity more valid than ours? Just simply think about how the cultural differences between Japan and America affect us in our simple basic perceptions of each other today. And we're just a phone call away. A few hours flight. Not thousands of years in the past and In a totally different culture with a different set of threats from other countries.

It is difficult, and I do wrestle with it. But life is about the learning and the struggle.

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

Boss of the Inland Empire

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#573555
Dec 15, 2012
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not that difficult if we, together, ask "is slavery the best possible outcome for the most possible people?" and "can we say that slavery is moral, if we define moral as avoiding misery and encouraging happiness?"
The thing is, Al, you claim to worship a perfectly moral being. Do you believe a perfectly moral being would condone slavery? I don't. I can't see that. Slavery is bad for most people, good for a few. I can't see that as a morally justifiable activity.
If you don't claim that God is perfectly moral, then I have no problems with your logic (I would have problems with your worship, though - I think that only perfectly moral beings would be worthy of worship).
Let's take the Mayans, for example. They quite clearly did not worship perfectly moral beings - they engaged in human sacrifice and all kinds of pain inducing activities, including slavery. I seriously doubt they shared the concept of morality with us. And I know that they thought of their deities as humanlike, with humanlike failures - so, not perfect.
You can't really argue with that. Yes, I disagree, but their logic isn't at fault - the "I worship this thing, this beast, in this terrible manner, because it is what I believe and not because it is perfectly morally right" is, at least, honest.
Alternatively, you could take the view that the OT was incorrect and didn't represent God accurately. That would be acceptable, too, but then you'd be tossing out the OT. That's no problem for me. I have no investment here.
The reality is that contemporary Christians simply don't read the Bible too closely. They find the parts that work for them, that mean something to them and ignore the rest. That's life - it's just that the Christians here won't admit that. And, if you look as closely as we atheists do, then you have all kinds of worrisome problems to deal with. So most Christians just avoid these issues.
It doesn't really affect their life, right?
Yes, I do worship God a which according to the Bible is a perfect and moral being. How can we then define moral if we humans are always changing the definition of moral. Moving the goalposts shall we say as we get closer?
We can only make sense of what we can understand. Sounds simple at first, but what if what we understand us like us looking at a single piece of a 10,000 piece puzzle and trying to understand what the rest of the puzzle looks like?
We have a green piece and we look at the puzzle maker when he tells us that the rest is not green. He's crazy. I have it in my hand, I'm looking at it, it's definitely green. WTH?

That's our struggle Hiding. Trying to Understand the rest despite of what we currently hold in our hand.

“I won, I won, I won!!!”

Since: Mar 11

Who? Me, me, me!

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#573556
Dec 15, 2012
 

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Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
It is difficult for me to reconcile it to be honest. But I have to try to take it in context. Doesn't science state that Change is the law of nature? I'm sure that would include the definition and application of morality. It evolves as society and/or government changes.
Think about nudity in the Greek or Roman era's for example Hiding. It was morally accepted at that time and there was no issue with it. Today it would be unthinkable. You or I may not have a problem walking around naked and see no shame in our bodies but that's not the way society today sees it. We would both be hauled off to the pokey and locked up for indecent exposure and we would just sit on the grimy benches nekked.
Moral values are our current perception of the standards of good and evil. How is your perception or mine any more valid than the Greeks at that time? Were the Greeks perception of nudity more valid than ours? Just simply think about how the cultural differences between Japan and America affect us in our simple basic perceptions of each other today. And we're just a phone call away. A few hours flight. Not thousands of years in the past and In a totally different culture with a different set of threats from other countries.
It is difficult, and I do wrestle with it. But life is about the learning and the struggle.
Yes, cultures change, Al. Morality, too, as you write.

That's not the problem here. The problem is the claim, by some, that they worship and pray to a perfectly moral being. I'm sorry, the Bible does not describe the morals of a perfectly moral being.

If you are going to claim that your God changes, that's no problem for me. If you are going to claim that He's not perfect, that's no problem for me.

I have problems when believers tell me that their deity is perfect and that all humans must take their morality from His/Her absolute morality. I've never seen a convincing case of a religion where their deity was actually a moral one. I haven't looked too deeply into Janism, but perhaps they have something.

But, for ex., the god of waaasssuuup is not a moral god. It's a hateful, divisive, despicable thing that wants everyone to be the same, who monitors your sex life and is deeply concerned about where you put your genitals. That's ridiculous. It's beyond contempt for someone to tell me that the Creator of the universe cares if I screw the same sex or the opposite sex.

Quite clearly anyone who would say something like that has serious mental issues and is incapable of critical thinking.

If there's a Creator, it has better things to do with its time than worry deeply about who you're sexing.

Since: Jul 12

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#573557
Dec 15, 2012
 
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Ahem...I said "many", which may be a little bit of an exaggeration, still...
I'm sure there are quite a few men that never get good at it no matter how much they practice. Some are just naturals or maybe they simply try harder?
Some of us are just naturals....

Since: Jul 12

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#573558
Dec 15, 2012
 
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Because Zeus is not God. Zeus is not Thor either. Do you understand that there is a difference between god and God?
There is a difference between asking for a kleenex and asking for a Kleenex. One is a proper noun, the other is not. Whenever kleenex isn't capitalized, it is synonymous with tissue. Whenever god is capitalized, it refers only to the Bible god, but when it is not capitalized, it is synonymous with deity.
ah!

Read this post, other atheists.

Learn the difference between "a god" and "God".(like I did in my post)

Since: Jun 12

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#573559
Dec 15, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I agree that your bible is worth being familiar with. But how familiar? What more does an unbeliever need to know about your bible than what I know?
Ask Ehrman.
Only if he existed and was the author of the words attributed to him. Even then, Jesus may not even be the most important person in Christian history. Constantine probably did more for Christianity than Jesus.
Now you are talking about Christian history. That is not what Ehrman is referencing. He is referencing human history.
Jesus might not even be the most influential character in the New Testament. Your religion mirrors the teachings of Paul more than those of Jesus.
This assumes there is a distinction between the two. Paul and Jesus which only critics accept. The letters of Paul are Jesus centered. They deal mostly with problems of churches in non Jewish locations. Paul is wrote about as primary character from Acts 13 on. Before that the main character is Peter.
But even if we stipulate to Jesus being the most important figure in history, so what? Are you offering that as evidence that he was a god?
Jesus is either God/Man or He is not. Jesus either resurrected or He did not. If not then Christianity is false. If so then Christianity is true which means God exists and atheism is false. It all rests one one event which either happened or it did not. Most everyone agrees Jesus existed and was put to death via Pilate. That gives both the writings of Paul, and the Gospels a certain amount of historical credibility. Along with the other letters. Before you can establish anything about Jesus you must first establish He existed. Most discount resurrection because it does not happen. There is a naturalistic bias. It takes sufficient cause to effect resurrection. Sufficient cause is God. People who allow for the possibility of God must also allow for the possibility of supernatural events which defy nature since God is Supernatural. Not restricted by time and space. In other words, timeless. In the case of Jesus the claim being God became Human for a reason. To bridge humanity with the Creator. To bring peace where there is a seperation without violating the autonomy of man. Man freely chooses God through Jesus only. That is the provision. If man rejects Jesus then they recieve justice from God. If man accepts Jesus then man recieves mercy which has more to do with non justice. How life is lived is evidence of conversion. God is unjust with no one.

Since: Jul 12

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#573560
Dec 15, 2012
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol, u perv! hehehe
I was a perv when I was young, now I'm a "prov"

:)

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

Boss of the Inland Empire

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#573561
Dec 15, 2012
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, cultures change, Al. Morality, too, as you write.
That's not the problem here. The problem is the claim, by some, that they worship and pray to a perfectly moral being. I'm sorry, the Bible does not describe the morals of a perfectly moral being.
If you are going to claim that your God changes, that's no problem for me. If you are going to claim that He's not perfect, that's no problem for me.
I have problems when believers tell me that their deity is perfect and that all humans must take their morality from His/Her absolute morality. I've never seen a convincing case of a religion where their deity was actually a moral one. I haven't looked too deeply into Janism, but perhaps they have something.
But, for ex., the god of waaasssuuup is not a moral god. It's a hateful, divisive, despicable thing that wants everyone to be the same, who monitors your sex life and is deeply concerned about where you put your genitals. That's ridiculous. It's beyond contempt for someone to tell me that the Creator of the universe cares if I screw the same sex or the opposite sex.
Quite clearly anyone who would say something like that has serious mental issues and is incapable of critical thinking.
If there's a Creator, it has better things to do with its time than worry deeply about who you're sexing.
Sex is just more than a physical act Hiding. It affects us emotionally and psychologically and most people that want to have sex anytime or with any one never want to admit that. A lot of times people don't even realize how a past sexual partner affected them until years later.

IMHO, God is more interested in our long term well being psychologically,emotionally and our physical rather than just interested in "screwing"
Screwing is fun, no doubt, I'll be the first to admit it, but many times unless it is done within specific guidelines it only fulfills a temporary need leaving some feeling empty and yearning for something more that "screwing" will not fulfill.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#573562
Dec 15, 2012
 
River Tam wrote:
I suggest you [lightbeamrider] keep your mouth shut too.
Yeah, mm-moh-fan-ah-lei, mo-fo.
River Tam wrote:
It's not about you is it? If it's your funeral, speak up.
Lei-mai-ding-goon-choi-ah-lei! :)

[Did you set that up to see if anybody was paying attention?]

Since: Jul 12

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#573563
Dec 15, 2012
 
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text> No, I'm simply explaining something to you that is difficult for you to grasp, and it also contradicts your religious belief too, so you think it's deceptive, but it's not.
This is what the historical and historical archaeological evidence shows.
I can't stress that strongly enough.
<quoted text> I fully understand that. I've never disputed that, and again, your lack of comprehension is astounding at times.
<quoted text> I understand that, additionally, it isn't about what the Canaanites thought, this focuses on Judaism having evolved from Canaanite religious belief.
You choose to remain ignorant since it preserves your religious belief, I also know that you will continue to do so.
<quoted text>I'm sure the Canaanites said the same thing. The deities of the Canaanites were drawn in part from Mesopotamian and Egyptian influences.
Your deity belief and religion is no different in that respect.
Your deity is derived from the Judaic concept of the Mashiach(never to be anything more than 100% human), and evolved from Judaic, deity and religious beliefs, which in turn came from Canaanite origins.
The entire basis of your religion is of mythic origins, and your religion, is myth and nothing more.
I don't expect you to accept this.
That isn't what this post is about.
I'm not trying to "convert you".
There is no deception here.
This is simply what the evidence shows, and that evidence is growing.
You're right scar, I don't understand.

I don't understand why you continue your futile attempt at comparing Christianity to Judaism.

Christianity began with the resurrection of Jesus Christ, something the Jews don't believe happened.

One more time, I'm not a Jew. Got it?

Since: Jul 12

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#573564
Dec 15, 2012
 
timn17 wrote:
A ten year quagmire with hundreds of thousands of civilians dead - is that all acceptable collateral damage when working to "spread democracy?"
Yes it is.

Look at the long-term effects, Tim.

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

Boss of the Inland Empire

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#573565
Dec 15, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Some of us are just naturals....
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Ahem...I said "many", which may be a little bit of an exaggeration, still...
I'm sure there are quite a few men that never get good at it no matter how much they practice. Some are just naturals or maybe they simply try harder?

Some are just harder..... Just saying....

Since: Jul 12

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#573566
Dec 15, 2012
 
Sharkey wrote:
<quoted text>Your babble is just pure bullsh!t.
That was just stupid, even for a redneck! GADS!(Roling eyes)
That "someone that shakes my hand" is not INVISIBLE, you f*cking IDIOT.
He is ACTUALLY THERE, in REALITY.
But what the f*ck would YOU know about reality?...
So much anger from such a small mind.

Terrible......

Since: Jul 12

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#573567
Dec 15, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is your cold beer, sir! With salt and vinegar chips and a medium rare fillet mignon.
Enjoy!
Oh, dear. You forgot my low sodium diet...

Since: Jul 12

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#573568
Dec 15, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
You keep saying that 0-0=0.
Prove it.
Sharkey wrote:
<quoted text>What, you never learned how to subtract?
lol...

Go 'head.

Show me how to subtract zero from zero....

I'll wait.

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