Prove there's a god.

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“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#572623
Dec 12, 2012
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not speculation. God was there before the bible was written.
you don't know this, so why make the claim?

With all of your posts from the dictionary, you do know the difference between "belief" and "fact", right?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#572624
Dec 12, 2012
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh boy...
The ole "ancient pagan holiday" routine, huh?
HA HA HA HA!!!
Hey Chris, prove it.
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/cmas1.htm

Google scares the shit out of you, doesn't it.

Since: Jul 12

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#572625
Dec 12, 2012
 
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text> Christianity emerged from the Judaic Messianic movements within Judaism, those "movements", or sects, had started to emerge somewhere around 200BCE. They were wanting a radical change to occur within Judaism and thought the prophesied Mashiach was the way for that to happen.
So, it was something that had been building for a long while, and the Jesus figure did not and does not fulfill Judaic messianic prophetic requirements, although Christians assert he does, but he doesn't.
You follow a false Messiah, and a false prophet, and it's very clear based upon Judaic Messianic prophecy which is specific, and those prophecies have not been fulfilled.
So you think that all Christians follow a false messiah?!?

I think you're confusing Judaism with Christianity a bit too much.

Since: Jun 12

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#572626
Dec 12, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
It was not universal in the ancient world. Such belies your misunderstanding of history.
Yeah well then you can always prove me wrong by demonstrating from ancient history where slavery was condemmed.
And, even if it was, a perfectly moral being would not condone slavery merely because His Creations, who in your religion are fallen and less than perfect, use slavery.
It was a fact of life in the ancient world. Besides you are setting pre conditions on God. You ignore the fact this life is between two time periods, where creation is in harmony with the Almighty and evil is isolated. i would expect you to be a little more clinical in your approach. The overall tone of your post is an appeal to emotion which amounts to disgust. That is not a good basis to make rational decisions. All a Christian claims is to be saved from this perverse generation and to call upon the Lord and be saved.

Since: Jul 12

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#572627
Dec 12, 2012
 
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I am well aware of the history and content of biblical texts.
<quoted text>
You mean once the Yahweh had been adopted and claimed as their own within Judaism, which was polytheistic in its origins.
You are ignoring the mentions of the Yahweh within the Canaanite pantheon of deities worshiped, and seen, for instance in Ugaritic texts, ranging in dates from around 1450-1200 BCE. That is the best documented time period within the Ugarit culture, too.
You are aware that Canaanite people/culture is where the Hebrew people/culture originated from, aren't you?
No?
I'm not ignoring anything except your misinterpretation of the available facts.

Wiki:

"Yahweh may exist as an ending of some Amorite male names, though the only Canaanite mention of Yahweh, found on the Mesha Stele, refers to the God of Israel contrasted with Chemosh."

Chemosh is in the Bible, Num. 21:29, Jer. 48:7, 13, 46. Cast out as another false God. Replaced with the love of the Lord.

Since: Jul 12

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#572628
Dec 12, 2012
 
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
Redneck says.....About 30 years ago, when I needed Him the most, God touched my head & spoke to me, literally. From that point on I had absolutely no doubt that He's real.
Michael says.......What did God look like?
.......Was he tall, slim, with long chestnut color hair, or was he just as most jews were 2,000 years ago, 5 foot 1", with a big nose, olive skin and jet black eyes and hair..........like anyone from Afghanistan we see on CNN every night?
der.....

Redneck say.....Did I ever say that I saw Him?
Sharkey

Reno, NV

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#572629
Dec 12, 2012
 

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lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> No. If God is all power and authority and if creation is God dependent then God is not responsible to creation. Creation is responsible to God.
<quoted text> Your conclusion is invalid. Your first premise is off.
No. You've got it backwards. Creation didn't "make god", so it's not "responsible to god" "God" is responsible to creation, since the claim is "god created it".
If "god created everything", that makes him responsible, simply because he was "able to".
"To create" would mean that "god" would have the ability, or what we like to call "free will".
Since "god was able to create everything" and "he did" then that means that "he" must take responsibility for what "he created".
It's the "You broke it, you bought it!" premise.

Since: Jul 12

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#572630
Dec 12, 2012
 
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
"Christianity began as a Jewish sect in the Levant of the middle east in the mid-1st century"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#His...
The above was based upon the OT/Torah/Tanakh
That was the "bible" of the time.
You can split hairs if you want, but the statement I made earlier stands.
scaritual wrote: Every belief you have concerning your deity is based upon the bible.
That is the fact and matter of this particular conversation.
I will agree that most of the beliefs **I** have comes from the Bible, but that's not the entire conversation & you know it.

There were plenty of people that believed in God for centuries before there was a Bible. There were people that believed in Jesus for centuries before there was a Bible.

That is fact.

Since: Jul 12

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#572631
Dec 12, 2012
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
you don't know this, so why make the claim?
With all of your posts from the dictionary, you do know the difference between "belief" and "fact", right?
Excuse me, sorry.**Christianity** was there before the Bible was written.
Sharkey

Reno, NV

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#572632
Dec 12, 2012
 

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lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Yeah well then you can always prove me wrong by demonstrating from ancient history where slavery was condemmed.
<quoted text> It was a fact of life in the ancient world. Besides you are setting pre conditions on God. You ignore the fact this life is between two time periods, where creation is in harmony with the Almighty and evil is isolated. i would expect you to be a little more clinical in your approach. The overall tone of your post is an appeal to emotion which amounts to disgust. That is not a good basis to make rational decisions. All a Christian claims is to be saved from this perverse generation and to call upon the Lord and be saved.
"Slavery was a fact of life."
Oh, so it's perfectly OK for it to be "right" then, but not now?
And you religionists say people practice "moral relatavism" but you guys can do that "because you will just be saaaaaaved by the Lord anyway."
LMAO! SMFH! You will always be a bunch of hypocritical phonies. If you're supposed to be "reps of god" how much does that say about the "god that created you"?

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

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#572633
Dec 12, 2012
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think that all Christians follow a false messiah?!?
I think you're confusing Judaism with Christianity a bit too much.
No, just looking at the Judaic prophetic requirements concerning Messianic prophecy.

It's very clear the Jesus did not fulfill those prophecies.
Sharkey

Reno, NV

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#572634
Dec 12, 2012
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
der.....
Redneck say.....Did I ever say that I saw Him?
You said that you could describe an "undescribable" "god".
So let's hear it! What does an "undescribable god" look like?

Since: Jul 12

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#572635
Dec 12, 2012
 
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/cmas1.htm
Google scares the shit out of you, doesn't it.
Not so much.

Jesus Christ stands at the heart of history -- everyone's history (including yours).

His denial, which was in fulfillment of scripture, has come to lie at the heart of modern-day Jewish tradition; a negative tradition which has come to rival even observance of the Jewish Law itself in importance.

Consequently, even though it has been in a negative sense, it can truly be said that from one point of view, Jesus has been the focus of Christianity for over 2000 years.

Jesus Christ is the very centerpiece of Christian worship.

Jesus Christ is why ***WE*** celebrate Christmas.

What ***THEY*** did is irrelevant.
Sharkey

Reno, NV

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#572636
Dec 12, 2012
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not ignoring anything except your misinterpretation of the available facts.
Wiki:
"Yahweh may exist as an ending of some Amorite male names, though the only Canaanite mention of Yahweh, found on the Mesha Stele, refers to the God of Israel contrasted with Chemosh."
Chemosh is in the Bible, Num. 21:29, Jer. 48:7, 13, 46. Cast out as another false God. Replaced with the love of the Lord.
I'm a little confused - was Chemosh or the "god of Isreal" Yahweh cast out as a "false god"?
It sounds like your particular church has its own reinterpreted and misinterpreted version of the bible.
It's a shame to see Christians fighting each other over different bibles.
Here's an example of your "god" cancelling itself out. None of you can even agree on "what god is" within your own ranks.

Remember that 0-0=0.
If you keep calling each other's "gods" false, you eliminate the possibility of a "god" altogether.
Something you conflicting religionists should think about...

Since: Jul 12

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#572637
Dec 12, 2012
 
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
No, just looking at the Judaic prophetic requirements concerning Messianic prophecy.
It's very clear the Jesus did not fulfill those prophecies.
I'm not a Jew, scar.

What do I care if the Jews don't think that Jesus fulfilled their prophecies?

Where are you going with this?

Since: Jul 12

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#572638
Dec 12, 2012
 
Sharkey wrote:
<quoted text>You said that you could describe an "undescribable" "god".
So let's hear it! What does an "undescribable god" look like?
I did?

I said that?

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

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#572639
Dec 12, 2012
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not ignoring anything except your misinterpretation of the available facts.
Wiki:
"Yahweh may exist as an ending of some Amorite male names, though the only Canaanite mention of Yahweh, found on the Mesha Stele, refers to the God of Israel contrasted with Chemosh."
Chemosh is in the Bible, Num. 21:29, Jer. 48:7, 13, 46. Cast out as another false God. Replaced with the love of the Lord.
"El was the chief god at Ugarit. Yet El is also the name of God used in many of the Psalms for Yahweh. Yet when one reads these Psalms and the Ugaritic texts one sees that the very attributes for which Yahweh is acclaimed are the same for which El is acclaimed. In fact, these Psalms were most likely originally Ugaritic or Phoenician hymns to El which were simply adopted by Israel"
"Biblical texts do attest to Yahweh and El as different gods sanctioned by early Israel. For example, Genesis 49:24-25 presents a series of El epithets separate from the mention of Yahweh in verse 18. This passage does not show the relative status of the two gods in early Israel, only that they could be named separately in the same poem More helpful is the text of the Septuagint and one of the Dead sea scrolls(4Q Deut) for Deuteronomy 32: 8-9, which cast Yahweh in the role of one of the divine sons, understood as fathered by El, called Elyon in the first line;

When the Most High Elyon alloted peoples for his inheritance,
When He divided up humanity,
He fixed the boundaries for peoples,
According to the number of the divine sons of El:
For Yahweh's portion is his people,
Jacob His own inheritance.

The traditional Hebrew text(MT) perhaps reflects a discomfort with this polytheistic theology of Israel, for it shows in the fourth line not "sons of El" but "sons of Israel". This passage, with the Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scroll reading, presents a cosmic order in which each deity received its own nation.

Israel was the nation which Yahweh recieved, yet El was the head of this pantheon and Yahweh only one of it's members. This reading points to an old phase of Israel's religion when El held a pre-eminent position apart from the status of Yahweh.

Apparently, originally El was Israel's chief god, as suggested by the personal name Israel. Then, when the cult of Yahweh became more important in the land of early Israel, the view reflected in Deuteronomy 32:8-9 served as a mode to accomodate this religious development. El as a separate god disappeared, perhaps at different rates in different regions. This process may appear to involve Yahweh incorporating El's characteristics, for Yahweh is the eventual historical "winner". Yet in the pre-monarchic period, the process may be envisioned - at least initially - in the opposite terms: Israelite highland cult sites of El assimilated the outsider, southerner Yahweh.

In comparison, Yahweh in ancient Israel and Baal at Ugarit were both outsider warrior gods who stood second in rank to El, but they eventually overshadowed him in power. Yet Yahweh's development went further. He was identified with El: here the son replaced the father whose name only serves as a title for the son.

This paradigm of convergence of divine identities succeeeded the older paradigm of divine succession in the ancient Middle East(for example, Ea's replacement by his son Marduk in Enuma Elish). Indeed the erasure of the father, with the transformation into the son, was a requisite condition for the monotheistic identity of the son." - The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith

Polytheism persisted in Judaism until 300-200 BCE, possibly later.
Your entire belief is based upon primitive polytheistic cultures melding of varying beliefs in deities as they moved to monotheism, and does not represent a singular and unique deity in any way.

Myth.

Since: Jul 12

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#572640
Dec 12, 2012
 
Sharkey wrote:
<quoted text>I'm a little confused - was Chemosh or the "god of Isreal" Yahweh cast out as a "false god"?
You appear confused.

Chemosh was the god of the moabites (you know, Moab - in Jordan).......

Dunno 'bout you, but I look at gods like Chemosh about as real as Zeus.
Sharkey

Reno, NV

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#572641
Dec 12, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I will agree that most of the beliefs **I** have comes from the Bible, but that's not the entire conversation & you know it.
There were plenty of people that believed in God for centuries before there was a Bible. There were people that believed in Jesus for centuries before there was a Bible.
That is fact.
That is not a "fact" that's just what people have told you to manipulate you into the quest for Christian world dominance.
Christians are trying to take over the world and OWN the world. They are in combat with Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and every other religion in order to eliminate them and have an "all Christian world"
Even if they have to instigate an Armegeddon to do so.
Christians are willing to kill the whole human race for their goal.
"If Christians can't have the world, then NO ONE can!"
That's what's behind their "end of the world" stuff. They WANT the world to end because nothing less than an "all Christian, preferably WHITE Christian, world will do.
Appearently the "Christian god" is a racist, sexist white male...

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

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#572642
Dec 12, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not ignoring anything except your misinterpretation of the available facts.
Wiki:
"Yahweh may exist as an ending of some Amorite male names, though the only Canaanite mention of Yahweh, found on the Mesha Stele, refers to the God of Israel contrasted with Chemosh."
Chemosh is in the Bible, Num. 21:29, Jer. 48:7, 13, 46. Cast out as another false God. Replaced with the love of the Lord.
"In the case of the Hebrews, the cult of Yah, or Yahu, or Yahweh, was simply a local worship sometimes aggrandised by the King, adopted and documentally imposed on the fictitious history of the nation long afterwards." M. Lang, Making of Religion, pp. 190-8.

"El was the chief god at Ugarit. Yet El is also the name of God used in many of the Psalms for Yahweh. Yet when one reads these Psalms and the Ugaritic texts one sees that the very attributes for which Yahweh is acclaimed are the same for which El is acclaimed. In fact, these Psalms were most likely originally Ugaritic or Phoenician hymns to El which were simply adopted by Israel" End quote
Smith, Mark S., The origins of biblical monotheism : Israel's polytheistic background and the Ugaritic texts, New York : Oxford University Press, 2001

You have to understand that much of the Judaic mythology came from earlier Ugaritic myths and other cultures that dominated the regions that early Semite/Hebrews inhabited. They adopted many religious elements during the Babylonian captivity.

Judaism wasn't fully monotheistic(sects or vestiges still popularly persisted) until as late as 400-200 BCE.(the oldest extant copy/remnants of the Torah just happens to be dated to 2nd century BCE)

Its interesting to note that the attributes of the 3 MAIN gods of the early Hebrew/Judaic polytheistic beliefs coincide to many of the same attributes of the "triune" gods of Christianity as well.**Asherah, for instance, the icon/symbol was a tree on a hill, associated with virgin births, loaves of bread, fish and an ancient goddess of, you guessed it, fisherman etc...** Ba'al was a fertility god and an agricultural god that required portions of the harvest(animals, blood be spilt) as a sacrifice.

ABRAHAMIC religions: "ripping off other religions since...wellll, SINCE WE CAN !!"

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