“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572638 Dec 12, 2012
Sharkey wrote:
<quoted text>You said that you could describe an "undescribable" "god".
So let's hear it! What does an "undescribable god" look like?
I did?

I said that?

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#572639 Dec 12, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not ignoring anything except your misinterpretation of the available facts.
Wiki:
"Yahweh may exist as an ending of some Amorite male names, though the only Canaanite mention of Yahweh, found on the Mesha Stele, refers to the God of Israel contrasted with Chemosh."
Chemosh is in the Bible, Num. 21:29, Jer. 48:7, 13, 46. Cast out as another false God. Replaced with the love of the Lord.
"El was the chief god at Ugarit. Yet El is also the name of God used in many of the Psalms for Yahweh. Yet when one reads these Psalms and the Ugaritic texts one sees that the very attributes for which Yahweh is acclaimed are the same for which El is acclaimed. In fact, these Psalms were most likely originally Ugaritic or Phoenician hymns to El which were simply adopted by Israel"
"Biblical texts do attest to Yahweh and El as different gods sanctioned by early Israel. For example, Genesis 49:24-25 presents a series of El epithets separate from the mention of Yahweh in verse 18. This passage does not show the relative status of the two gods in early Israel, only that they could be named separately in the same poem More helpful is the text of the Septuagint and one of the Dead sea scrolls(4Q Deut) for Deuteronomy 32: 8-9, which cast Yahweh in the role of one of the divine sons, understood as fathered by El, called Elyon in the first line;

When the Most High Elyon alloted peoples for his inheritance,
When He divided up humanity,
He fixed the boundaries for peoples,
According to the number of the divine sons of El:
For Yahweh's portion is his people,
Jacob His own inheritance.

The traditional Hebrew text(MT) perhaps reflects a discomfort with this polytheistic theology of Israel, for it shows in the fourth line not "sons of El" but "sons of Israel". This passage, with the Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scroll reading, presents a cosmic order in which each deity received its own nation.

Israel was the nation which Yahweh recieved, yet El was the head of this pantheon and Yahweh only one of it's members. This reading points to an old phase of Israel's religion when El held a pre-eminent position apart from the status of Yahweh.

Apparently, originally El was Israel's chief god, as suggested by the personal name Israel. Then, when the cult of Yahweh became more important in the land of early Israel, the view reflected in Deuteronomy 32:8-9 served as a mode to accomodate this religious development. El as a separate god disappeared, perhaps at different rates in different regions. This process may appear to involve Yahweh incorporating El's characteristics, for Yahweh is the eventual historical "winner". Yet in the pre-monarchic period, the process may be envisioned - at least initially - in the opposite terms: Israelite highland cult sites of El assimilated the outsider, southerner Yahweh.

In comparison, Yahweh in ancient Israel and Baal at Ugarit were both outsider warrior gods who stood second in rank to El, but they eventually overshadowed him in power. Yet Yahweh's development went further. He was identified with El: here the son replaced the father whose name only serves as a title for the son.

This paradigm of convergence of divine identities succeeeded the older paradigm of divine succession in the ancient Middle East(for example, Ea's replacement by his son Marduk in Enuma Elish). Indeed the erasure of the father, with the transformation into the son, was a requisite condition for the monotheistic identity of the son." - The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith

Polytheism persisted in Judaism until 300-200 BCE, possibly later.
Your entire belief is based upon primitive polytheistic cultures melding of varying beliefs in deities as they moved to monotheism, and does not represent a singular and unique deity in any way.

Myth.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572640 Dec 12, 2012
Sharkey wrote:
<quoted text>I'm a little confused - was Chemosh or the "god of Isreal" Yahweh cast out as a "false god"?
You appear confused.

Chemosh was the god of the moabites (you know, Moab - in Jordan).......

Dunno 'bout you, but I look at gods like Chemosh about as real as Zeus.
Sharkey

United States

#572641 Dec 12, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I will agree that most of the beliefs **I** have comes from the Bible, but that's not the entire conversation & you know it.
There were plenty of people that believed in God for centuries before there was a Bible. There were people that believed in Jesus for centuries before there was a Bible.
That is fact.
That is not a "fact" that's just what people have told you to manipulate you into the quest for Christian world dominance.
Christians are trying to take over the world and OWN the world. They are in combat with Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and every other religion in order to eliminate them and have an "all Christian world"
Even if they have to instigate an Armegeddon to do so.
Christians are willing to kill the whole human race for their goal.
"If Christians can't have the world, then NO ONE can!"
That's what's behind their "end of the world" stuff. They WANT the world to end because nothing less than an "all Christian, preferably WHITE Christian, world will do.
Appearently the "Christian god" is a racist, sexist white male...

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#572642 Dec 12, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not ignoring anything except your misinterpretation of the available facts.
Wiki:
"Yahweh may exist as an ending of some Amorite male names, though the only Canaanite mention of Yahweh, found on the Mesha Stele, refers to the God of Israel contrasted with Chemosh."
Chemosh is in the Bible, Num. 21:29, Jer. 48:7, 13, 46. Cast out as another false God. Replaced with the love of the Lord.
"In the case of the Hebrews, the cult of Yah, or Yahu, or Yahweh, was simply a local worship sometimes aggrandised by the King, adopted and documentally imposed on the fictitious history of the nation long afterwards." M. Lang, Making of Religion, pp. 190-8.

"El was the chief god at Ugarit. Yet El is also the name of God used in many of the Psalms for Yahweh. Yet when one reads these Psalms and the Ugaritic texts one sees that the very attributes for which Yahweh is acclaimed are the same for which El is acclaimed. In fact, these Psalms were most likely originally Ugaritic or Phoenician hymns to El which were simply adopted by Israel" End quote
Smith, Mark S., The origins of biblical monotheism : Israel's polytheistic background and the Ugaritic texts, New York : Oxford University Press, 2001

You have to understand that much of the Judaic mythology came from earlier Ugaritic myths and other cultures that dominated the regions that early Semite/Hebrews inhabited. They adopted many religious elements during the Babylonian captivity.

Judaism wasn't fully monotheistic(sects or vestiges still popularly persisted) until as late as 400-200 BCE.(the oldest extant copy/remnants of the Torah just happens to be dated to 2nd century BCE)

Its interesting to note that the attributes of the 3 MAIN gods of the early Hebrew/Judaic polytheistic beliefs coincide to many of the same attributes of the "triune" gods of Christianity as well.**Asherah, for instance, the icon/symbol was a tree on a hill, associated with virgin births, loaves of bread, fish and an ancient goddess of, you guessed it, fisherman etc...** Ba'al was a fertility god and an agricultural god that required portions of the harvest(animals, blood be spilt) as a sacrifice.

ABRAHAMIC religions: "ripping off other religions since...wellll, SINCE WE CAN !!"
meto

Kingsport, TN

#572643 Dec 12, 2012
Apocalypse666 wrote:
Come on and do it.
Prove there's a god.
Don;t read off scripture or anything like that just prove there's a god.
Prove you have a brain......go ahead prove it....
Sharkey

United States

#572644 Dec 12, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You appear confused.
Chemosh was the god of the moabites (you know, Moab - in Jordan).......
Dunno 'bout you, but I look at gods like Chemosh about as real as Zeus.
If those "gods" aren't real, just how is yours any real-er? They are not.
By virtue of you saying that "they are false gods" someone else can say, and HAVE said that YOUR "god" is the false one.

Remember that 0-0=0.

Each time you claim another's god as false, they can make the same claim about yours. They HAVE, and they ARE.
Therefore, the possibility of a "god" is eliminated, because all the "gods" are false!
Sharkey

United States

#572645 Dec 12, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I did?
I said that?
Yes.
Now stop beating around the bush (oh, I forgot, you hate women, my bad) and describe this "undescribable god".
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#572646 Dec 12, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
der.....
Redneck say.....Did I ever say that I saw Him?
You only believed it was God, because you wanted to believe it was God.

UNBELIEVABLE!

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572647 Dec 12, 2012
scaritual wrote:
"Biblical texts do attest to Yahweh and El as different gods sanctioned by early Israel. For example, Genesis 49:24-25 presents a series of El epithets separate from the mention of Yahweh in verse 18.
Genesis 49:18 - I have waited for thy salvation, O Lord.

Genesis 24-25:- 24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)

25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:

Where's the "series of El epithets separate from the mention of Yahweh in verse 18"?!?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572648 Dec 12, 2012
Sharkey wrote:
<quoted text>That is not a "fact" that's just what people have told you to manipulate you into the quest for Christian world dominance.
Christians are trying to take over the world and OWN the world. They are in combat with Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and every other religion in order to eliminate them and have an "all Christian world"
Even if they have to instigate an Armegeddon to do so.
Christians are willing to kill the whole human race for their goal.
"If Christians can't have the world, then NO ONE can!"
That's what's behind their "end of the world" stuff. They WANT the world to end because nothing less than an "all Christian, preferably WHITE Christian, world will do.
Appearently the "Christian god" is a racist, sexist white male...
"Christians are willing to kill the whole human race for their goal."

You're crazy.
Sharkey

United States

#572649 Dec 12, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think that all Christians follow a false messiah?!?
I think you're confusing Judaism with Christianity a bit too much.
So do YOU think all Jews follow a false messiah?
0-0=0!
"Your god is false!" = 0
"No, YOUR god is false!" = 0

Both "gods" false
means that 0-0=0
means you have just made "god" IMPOSSIBLE.
Nothing from nothing gets nothing!
0-0=0.
0-0=0.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572650 Dec 12, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
"In the case of the Hebrews, the cult of Yah, or Yahu, or Yahweh, was simply a local worship sometimes aggrandised by the King, adopted and documentally imposed on the fictitious history of the nation long afterwards." M. Lang, Making of Religion, pp. 190-8.
"El was the chief god at Ugarit. Yet El is also the name of God used in many of the Psalms for Yahweh. Yet when one reads these Psalms and the Ugaritic texts one sees that the very attributes for which Yahweh is acclaimed are the same for which El is acclaimed. In fact, these Psalms were most likely originally Ugaritic or Phoenician hymns to El which were simply adopted by Israel" End quote
Smith, Mark S., The origins of biblical monotheism : Israel's polytheistic background and the Ugaritic texts, New York : Oxford University Press, 2001
You have to understand that much of the Judaic mythology came from earlier Ugaritic myths and other cultures that dominated the regions that early Semite/Hebrews inhabited. They adopted many religious elements during the Babylonian captivity.
Judaism wasn't fully monotheistic(sects or vestiges still popularly persisted) until as late as 400-200 BCE.(the oldest extant copy/remnants of the Torah just happens to be dated to 2nd century BCE)
Its interesting to note that the attributes of the 3 MAIN gods of the early Hebrew/Judaic polytheistic beliefs coincide to many of the same attributes of the "triune" gods of Christianity as well.**Asherah, for instance, the icon/symbol was a tree on a hill, associated with virgin births, loaves of bread, fish and an ancient goddess of, you guessed it, fisherman etc...** Ba'al was a fertility god and an agricultural god that required portions of the harvest(animals, blood be spilt) as a sacrifice.
ABRAHAMIC religions: "ripping off other religions since...wellll, SINCE WE CAN !!"
I think you should find a "Prove Jews are wrong" thread, scar.

I'm not a Jew.

What they do & don't do is none of my concern. Why do you keep bringing up Judaism to me?
Sharkey

United States

#572651 Dec 12, 2012
meto wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove you have a brain......go ahead prove it....
He can, with an x-ray.
Your x-ray, however, would show empty space where the brain is supposed to be.
STFU, idiot.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572652 Dec 12, 2012
Sharkey wrote:
<quoted text>If those "gods" aren't real, just how is yours any real-er? They are not.
By virtue of you saying that "they are false gods" someone else can say, and HAVE said that YOUR "god" is the false one.
Remember that 0-0=0.
Each time you claim another's god as false, they can make the same claim about yours. They HAVE, and they ARE.
Therefore, the possibility of a "god" is eliminated, because all the "gods" are false!
You keep saying that 0-0=0.

Prove it.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572653 Dec 12, 2012
Sharkey wrote:
<quoted text>Yes.
Now stop beating around the bush (oh, I forgot, you hate women, my bad) and describe this "undescribable god".
I never said that I could describe God.

Ever.

You're lying.

(and no, I don't like bush, she needs to shave or get lost)
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#572654 Dec 12, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Honestly I used to not be so certain. But lemme tell ya, when God touches you & speaks to you, you know it.
I had my doubts, which I argued incessantly with my dad & grandpa. I doubted that God was real, heaven, prayer, hell, angels, etc. I thought that it was all bull. And I was raised in a Christain home.
About 30 years ago, when I needed Him the most, God touched my head & spoke to me, literally. From that point on I had absolutely no doubt that He's real.
It was then that I started asking the "why"...
And don't let the atheists fool you, they're gonna shoot me down with some physco babble and say it was all in my head. They're wrong.
Amazing that god only appears during bouts of deep trauma and never visits when things are going well.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572655 Dec 12, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
You only believed it was God, because you wanted to believe it was God.
UNBELIEVABLE!
That is what you believe..........
Sharkey

United States

#572656 Dec 12, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Genesis 49:18 - I have waited for thy salvation, O Lord.
Genesis 24-25:- 24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)
25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
Where's the "series of El epithets separate from the mention of Yahweh in verse 18"?!?
You're just reading a different version of the holy book than he is. That is simply what it is.
It's not good for the universe for all these "gods" to be fighting each other for dominance.
Humans have given this "god" too many HUMAN characteristics, like making him jealous, vengeful, evil, and murderous, just like a HUMAN.
"Worship ME ME ME ME ME and ONLY ME ME ME ME..."
Wow... the Christian "god" has this much of an ego problem? The HUBRIS of this "god"...amazing.
Maybe "god" IS just one of US, after all...because this "god" sure ACTS like an evil, mass-murdering human like Hitler.
Sharkey

United States

#572657 Dec 12, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you should find a "Prove Jews are wrong" thread, scar.
I'm not a Jew.
What they do & don't do is none of my concern. Why do you keep bringing up Judaism to me?
(Rolls eyes) You just implicated that Jews are "worshipping a false messiah" by saying that he is "confusing Christianity with Judaism".
Don't play the innocent victim now.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
God is REAL - Miracles Happen! (Jun '11) 8 min andet1987 5,755
Was 9/11 a conspiracy?? (Oct '07) 8 min Rick in Kansas 267,316
Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 10 min USA Born 567,387
There is Everything Wrong with Abortion (Nov '07) 1 hr Grunt56 221,529
Gay snapchat names 1 hr nickkaraoke 326
Thousands march in Holocaust memorial (Apr '06) 1 hr Mr Slovak 464
Voyeur & Donkeys Joke Thread Free For All......... (Dec '08) 1 hr Ricky F 159
Why Should Jesus Love Me? (Feb '08) 3 hr Epiphany2 607,071
Is homosexuality a sin? (Oct '07) 5 hr Rosa_Winkel 97,429
Dubai massage Body To Body full service 0559... (Mar '14) 21 hr henk 175
More from around the web