Prove there's a god.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572887 Dec 13, 2012
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
one substantiated by archeology
unlike your contentions, which are most often simply an extension of your pride in your lack of education.
Wait a tic!

How is a lack of evidence considered substaniated by archaeology?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572888 Dec 13, 2012
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
If we go with the only one God that controls everything theory of the Abrahamic religions (except for the fundamentalists here who seem to think that there is currently a god called Satan who inhabits the earth and is directly controlling those who are not born again), then we would have to believe that the god(s) of other religions cannot exist, and likely they would do the same re 'God'.
Has anyone here said that Satan is a god?

Has anyone said that Satan directly contraols anyone?
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#572889 Dec 13, 2012
Hi boyz.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#572890 Dec 13, 2012
The brain is the transmitter of the indwelling consciousness and is not the consciousness itself.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#572891 Dec 13, 2012
OBE:

During an OBE, the entire consciousness separates from the body and one can see the supine body and everything else in the vicinity. The senses are accentuated when the consciousness is outside the body since the dense material body always acts as a drag on the consciousness when it's trapped inside the body. Besides, a silvery line of force connecting the disembodied consciousness with the cataleptic body is also perceived. i speak from personal experience. it's easy to execute a willed OBE with a little practice provided one has the innate capacity for such paranormal feats.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#572892 Dec 13, 2012
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>

just when you think it cannot get any stupider, and that 38000 gods are enough
The manifested powers of consciousness can number 38,000 or 50,000. These are not gods but i repeat that they are manifested powers of consciousness-energy.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#572893 Dec 13, 2012
Actually, the consciousness is spread out all over the body but is centralized in the brain and is concentrated to an extent in a few force centers along the spine.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#572894 Dec 13, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Genesis 49:18 - I have waited for thy salvation, O Lord.
Genesis 24-25:- 24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)
25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
Where's the "series of El epithets separate from the mention of Yahweh in verse 18"?!?
<quoted text>
That's quite a stretch, scar.....
To say that God & calling God "O Lord" implies a different deity.
Nice try, admit you're wrong.
Yeah, you're using the KJV, or a bible specifically translated for Christians which does away with the variances or differences in Hebrew names, etc. IOW - Made generic and substitutions added for concepts, words or names that did not match with Christian theology.

There is difference.

When you look at the OT/Tanakh that has been translated faithfully to reflect those differences within the Hebrew language, things aren't the same. The English translations below are faithful to the Hebrew and the Aramaic.

Lets look...

Gen 49:18

(Gen 49:18 TNK) I wait for Your deliverance, O LORD!

(Gen 49:18 NJB) I long for your deliverance, Yahweh!

(Gen 49:18 CJB) I wait for your deliverance, ADONAI.

Gen 49:24-25

(TNK Gen 49:24-25)- 24)Yet his bow stayed taut, And his arms were made firm By the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob -- There, the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel -- 25)The God of your father who helps you, And Shaddai who blesses you With blessings of heaven above, Blessings of the deep that couches below, Blessings of the breast and womb.

(Gen 49:24-25 NJB)- 24)But their bows were broken by a mighty One, the sinews of their arms were snapped by the power of the Mighty One of Jacob, by the Name of the Stone of Israel, 25)the God of your father who assists you, El Shaddai who blesses you: blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep lying below, blessings of the breasts and womb,(Gen 49:24-25 NJB)

(CJB Gen 49:24-25)- 24)but his bow remained taut; and his arms were made nimble by the hands of the Mighty One of Ya'akov, from there, from the Shepherd, the Stone of Isra'el, 25)by the God of your father, who will help you, by El Shaddai, who will bless you with blessings from heaven above, blessings from the deep, lying below, blessings from the breasts and the womb.(CJB Genesis 49:24-25)

The evidence does not point to the different names being representative of the same deity.

There is a difference.

"El Shaddai is one of the Judaic names of God, with its etymology coming from the influence of the Ugaritic religion on modern Judaism. El Shaddai is conventionally translated as God Almighty. While the translation of El as "god" in Ugarit/Canaanite language is straightforward, the literal meaning of Shaddai is the subject of debate."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Shaddai

"Despite the Bible's story, according to which the Israelites originated from Mespotamia via slavery in Egypt, the evidence indicates that they were native to Canaan. Yahweh, however, was not a Canaanite god, and modern scholars see him originating in Edom, the region south of Judah. The goddess Asherah may have been Yahweh's consort in the earliest period. Originally the main god of the Iron Age kingdoms of Israel and Judah, worship of Yahweh alone (monotheism) became entrenched in Judaism in the exilic and Persian periods."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanite_religi...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_%28deity%29

Those differences are evident when not utilizing a Christianized bible.

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#572895 Dec 13, 2012
JOEL wrote:
Actually, the consciousness is spread out all over the body but is centralized in the brain and is concentrated to an extent in a few force centers along the spine.
And you can prove this, how? Everyone has their opinions, and I can respect that. Seems like you're posting a lot of opinions and stating them as truth.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#572896 Dec 13, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus didn't fulfill Judaic prophesy, some say.
Big deal.
Jesus is the cornerstone of the Christian religion, MY religion.
If validity really doesn't matter, then you could switch to just any old religion then couldn't you?

If worshiping a false Messiah doesn't bother you it certainly doesn't bother me, Ar Ar.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572897 Dec 13, 2012
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Your idea of salvation is fictitious.
Your idea of salvation leads nowhere. The physical world is perfect just the way it is.

The consciousness that you speak of has created this world perfectly.

It is your foolish, naive egotism and arrogance that is driving you to think that the physical world is in need of perfection.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572898 Dec 13, 2012
scambuster wrote:
<quoted text>
Lucifer is a creation of the minds of abrahamic religions and doesn't mean anything to those who don't follow those religions. Why would an atheist or agnostic care what you have to say about lucifer as much as you care about someone's opinion of Hades?
No!

Lucifer means "bringer, yielder or generator of light".

The idea that there is a source of "light" or one type or another is common to all cultures.

As a matter of fact, the word "Lucifer" is not Hebrew, so it could not have Abrahamic roots.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572899 Dec 13, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
If validity really doesn't matter, then you could switch to just any old religion then couldn't you?
If worshiping a false Messiah doesn't bother you it certainly doesn't bother me, Ar Ar.
I don't worship a false messiah...

I worship Jesus Christ.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572900 Dec 13, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, you're using the KJV, or a bible specifically translated for Christians which does away with the variances or differences in Hebrew names, etc. IOW - Made generic and substitutions added for concepts, words or names that did not match with Christian theology.
There is difference.
When you look at the OT/Tanakh that has been translated faithfully to reflect those differences within the Hebrew language, things aren't the same. The English translations below are faithful to the Hebrew and the Aramaic.
Lets look...
Gen 49:18
(Gen 49:18 TNK) I wait for Your deliverance, O LORD!
(Gen 49:18 NJB) I long for your deliverance, Yahweh!
(Gen 49:18 CJB) I wait for your deliverance, ADONAI.
Gen 49:24-25
(TNK Gen 49:24-25)- 24)Yet his bow stayed taut, And his arms were made firm By the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob -- There, the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel -- 25)The God of your father who helps you, And Shaddai who blesses you With blessings of heaven above, Blessings of the deep that couches below, Blessings of the breast and womb.
(Gen 49:24-25 NJB)- 24)But their bows were broken by a mighty One, the sinews of their arms were snapped by the power of the Mighty One of Jacob, by the Name of the Stone of Israel, 25)the God of your father who assists you, El Shaddai who blesses you: blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep lying below, blessings of the breasts and womb,(Gen 49:24-25 NJB)
(CJB Gen 49:24-25)- 24)but his bow remained taut; and his arms were made nimble by the hands of the Mighty One of Ya'akov, from there, from the Shepherd, the Stone of Isra'el, 25)by the God of your father, who will help you, by El Shaddai, who will bless you with blessings from heaven above, blessings from the deep, lying below, blessings from the breasts and the womb.(CJB Genesis 49:24-25)
The evidence does not point to the different names being representative of the same deity.
There is a difference.
"El Shaddai is one of the Judaic names of God, with its etymology coming from the influence of the Ugaritic religion on modern Judaism. El Shaddai is conventionally translated as God Almighty. While the translation of El as "god" in Ugarit/Canaanite language is straightforward, the literal meaning of Shaddai is the subject of debate."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Shaddai
"Despite the Bible's story, according to which the Israelites originated from Mespotamia via slavery in Egypt, the evidence indicates that they were native to Canaan. Yahweh, however, was not a Canaanite god, and modern scholars see him originating in Edom, the region south of Judah. The goddess Asherah may have been Yahweh's consort in the earliest period. Originally the main god of the Iron Age kingdoms of Israel and Judah, worship of Yahweh alone (monotheism) became entrenched in Judaism in the exilic and Persian periods."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanite_religi...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_%28deity%29
Those differences are evident when not utilizing a Christianized bible.
Different names, same God.

What's your reason for introducing Jewish bible translations to a Christian?
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572901 Dec 13, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
JOEL wrote:
i disagree.
See, salvation must be integral - no part of existence (material, emotional, vital or mental) must be left out.
Every aspect of existence should be purified and perfected by infusing the lower reaches of existence with the superior powers of the higher ranges of consciousness-energy so that the whole system vibrates as a singularity. Perfection is the aim. Once this is achieved, then, there is no coming and no going. One simply IS!
God_Himself wrote:
My idea of Salvation involves the influence of God in removing what is valid from what is unnecessary; as in the restoration of the true self to its true place, away from the confines of this material prison.
Your idea of Salvation, especially the one you suggest that is independent of God (if you said so ) is fundamentally Lucifarian in nature.
<quoted text>
Hey Joel and GH....how's it going. I'm sitting here out on the ledge reading these two posts and I gotta admit, you two have some good points.
Joel with - "Every aspect of existence should be purified and perfected by infusing the lower reaches of existence with the superior powers of the higher ranges of consciousness-energy so that the whole system vibrates as a singularity."
- I call it Self [being/soul/Spirit/consciousne ss]
....and GH posting - "as in the restoration of the true self to its true place, away from the confines of this material prison."
..but yet Joel states "it's fictiouos".
New Age asks:
- Would either of you agree that all religions are man-made, thus some "fictious attributes are involved, because "God" has never been proven to exist in our reality?
- If you ponder for a moment on both statements, you will find that they both are relatively of the same substance - Self, and what is required by ourself to uphold "purity" through honesty, love and peace with others.
I think you both have said the same thing, but for some reason, you have denied that they are the same.
Good posts no matter which way you want to travel.
Cheers!
We are not necessarily saying the same thing.

But it is interesting to see that JOEL has reached a conclusion of a "conscious reality" even without reference to a "Spiritual or Creator God".

But JOEL does not agree that there is some sort of God, I do. I believe that the reality, be it conscious or unconscious, material or spiritual is the product of God as Creator.

All religion is man made; BUT ALL SCIENCES ARE MAN MADE ALSO.

What is the relevance of pointing to the fact that religion is a product of man's thoughts?

Fictitious attributes as you put it does not mean that the being they are attributed to does not exist.

The description of God using "fictitious attributes" does not suggest that God is fictitious; it may be suggests that man's description of the being is flawed.

God is of a nature that is unlike the material world of which man is apart. So man's perception of God is necessarily flawed; and his attempt to describe God is an ongoing one.

But that by no means suggests that God Himself is fictitious.
Justin

Santa Rosa Beach, FL

#572902 Dec 13, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait a tic!
How is a lack of evidence considered substaniated by archaeology?
Simple.It cannot be tested.If you cannot test something linking it to creating a theory you would need more evidence.The problem is if we have no true eye witnesses or any writings by the man you are alleged existed.Than we are just taking your opinions.Which can be dismissed if it makes inaccurate predictions.Not hard to comprehend.

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#572903 Dec 13, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Asked and answered. <quoted text> That is ethnocentric.
.. finding no justification for slavery is ethnocentric? Please explain ..
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>I was referencing the ancient culture evaluation of you since you accuse them of ''amorality'' for including a mild form of slavery relative to their time when few other options were available to them. They could have killed them. Abandoned them which only means they would have been enslaved by far crueler cultures or died off slowly. No food no water. Women and children dying off.
.. there's a 'mild' form of slavery ??..

.. since God committed the very first act of slavery (Genesis 9:25-26 - the Curse of Ham), instead of offering a person food and water, you are commanded to enslave them? What happened to compassion? If you come to my door parched, should I make you my slave or quench your thirst ??..

.. if God disapproves of slavery, He's a terrible communicator ..
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text> Non religious find homosexuality disgusting also. In an objective sense, homosexuality is wrong, as is adultry, as is pedestry, as is incest.
.. so what? If you find homosexuality disgusting, don't indulge ..
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text> Women are kidnapped and duped into the sex slave industry. The lives of their families are threatened if they do not comply. None of this is acceptable, moral or legal so it is not a cultural thing. It is a cultural aberation based on atheistic thinking. If enslavers actually believed they would be accountable to God then they would not enslave females. Obviously they do not. Money is the goal and enslaving women is the means. Actually it is a form of idolatry.
.. since slavery is based on greed, its practice is very much cultural and the sex slave industry is no exception. What's the difference between telling a person, "No water for you or your children if you don't obey me," or "I'll kill you or your family if you don't obey me"? It all results in the same thing, death ..

.. you've yet to convince me of any justification for slavery and I find the morals in your Bible to be corrupt, without compassion and inhumane ..

.. you excuse the enslavement of people yet find homosexuality vile. What interesting morals you have ..
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#572904 Dec 13, 2012
scambuster wrote:
<quoted text>

And you can prove this, how? Everyone has their opinions, and I can respect that. Seems like you're posting a lot of opinions and stating them as truth.
Are you under the belief that consciousness = brain or that the consciousness is concentrated exclusively in the brain?

Consciousness is an experience that cannot be quantified or studied using physico-chemical methods.

Every cell in the body is conscious which is why it functions as a sentient entity.

Experiments like J C Bose's crescographic experiments on metals, stones, plants, animals and humans seem to suggest that consciousness is a universal phenomenon that manifests as a gradation through all these various entities.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#572905 Dec 13, 2012
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>

Your idea of salvation leads nowhere. The physical world is perfect just the way it is.

The consciousness that you speak of has created this world perfectly.

It is your foolish, naive egotism and arrogance that is driving you to think that the physical world is in need of perfection.
It's only moron who would aver that the conditions in the world are perfect.

Keep hallucinating, dear child.

(smiles)
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572906 Dec 13, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>...Your entire belief is based upon primitive polytheistic cultures melding of varying beliefs in deities as they moved to monotheism, and does not represent a singular and unique deity in any way.
Myth.
Actually that is quite far from the reality.

You see, a rose by any other name is still a rose. Changing the name by which a thing is called does not change the nature nor the character nor the potential of that thing.

As such, the reference to God, using names that are even pagan; does not constitute a polytheism or a reference to pagan deities.

Let me elaborate:

A spiritual person accepts that there is a God;

The person accepts that this God is of infinite potential;

What can this person use to describe this God in his personal conception, other than words and expressions that he has learned? None.

The "Names of God" are only references to attributes that are perceived OR hoped for in God. THE NAMES USED TO REFER TO GOD DONT SAY WHO HE IS: THE NAMES USED TO REFER TO GOD SAY WHAT HE IS CAPABLE OF.

A person may say:

"God, I call you by the name, "El""; or

"God, you are my Satan"; or

"God, you will be for my Yahweh".

"God, you will be whatever I want you to be".

And all this is based on the idea that God has all potentials so he can be whatever is required.

Therefore, even if the Bible were to refer to God by all the names that are known since the formation of the universe; it would still be describing the one God.

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