God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572132 Dec 11, 2012
JOEL wrote:
MUSINGS ON THE NATURE OF REALITY:
...
7) Perfection of matter is thus the highest achievement, no more escapism into the higher realms.
8) Destroy the cross - the symbol of impotence, pain, treachery, death and escapism.
9) Salvation is physical.
From 7-9, I dont quite agree with.

On 8:
Well, 8 might be a valid concept to some degree. Even a Christian may agree with that to some extent.

On 7:

Matter is only one type of material. I agree that perfection of MATERIAL is the highest achievement; but the perfection of material does not have to mean "the perfection of matter".

On 9:

Salvation must be real, but is the physical state truly the truest, most real, highest, purest or finest state?

I tend to see Salvation as a process of transcending the physical state not perfecting it in itself; because man is necessarily restricted by the limits of his physical being.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#572133 Dec 11, 2012
God Himself wrote:
There is no Christian God you clown; there is only the Christian (or Muslim or Jewish bla bla bla) perception of God.
I realize that.
God Himself wrote:
It is the Christian's perception of God that is flawed; ...
No argument there, either.
God Himself wrote:
... that which is , is God flawless in and of itself.
What?

BTW, given this huge discrepancy between what you say your god is, and what people seem to think about it, I'd have to say that your god seems inarticulate - powerless to communicate.
God Himself wrote:
I have no interest in authoritarian religions. There is no need to be interested in any religion here
Me, neither. So what are we disagreeing about?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#572134 Dec 11, 2012
God Himself wrote:
they have no bearing on nor relationship to the topic "Prove there's a God". God exists independently of religion and biblical scripture.
Then I suggest that you limit your comments to proving there's a god.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Life is quite meaningful to me. I drink up every day with enthusiasm.
God Himself wrote:
That enthusiasm is meaningless and futile; it will return from to the dust from whence it came with no hopes of revival or being "Salvaged". All your enthusiasm and virtue is part and parcel of a meaningless existence
So, your argument is that my god-free life is meaningless, I tell you that it has meaning to me, and you say that that is meaningless, too.

It seems to me that you're the one that doesn't understand what meaning in life is, nor where to find it.

Why would I be interested in such a bleak philosophy as one that taught you to think like that? The one I have now is much better already.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#572135 Dec 11, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
What hope do you see for the future: the hope that life and the universe will grind to a halt and dissolve back into absolute nothingness and chaos? You must be dreaming. LOL!
It's really a shame what they did to you. My life is full of meaning, purpose, hope, enthusiasm and vitality. You sound dead already.

BTW, you're utilizing a fallacy that I can't find a name for, so I call it the fallacy of scale. A life has meaning at a certain scale of space and time. At too small a size or for too short a time, life as no meaning. For particles decaying in nanoseconds, most of the qualities of our experience don't exist. There is no wetness there, and no glare. There is no humor and no fear.

Likewise, from too far away, or when looking at too large a volume of space, once again, there is no sign of life at all. And over deep time, no life time matters at all.

That's your argument - that in the grand scheme of things, considering the whole universe over trillions of years, my life doesn't matter. I agree.

But that's a fallacy to say that what is true at an extreme scale is true at all scales. We don't exist at the level of the grand scheme of things - just in a few square miles of the surface of one small planet for a few decades.

Why should my influence be expected to extend so far into time and space - or its failure to do so - constitute the basis of an argument against it having meaning? It shouldn't and it doesn't.

Notice that you're using the cosmological scale to negate the meaning in a life. More commonly, it's done at the microscopic level: "If we're nothing but chemicals,our lives cannot have meaning." It's as fallacious as calling Shakespeare meaningless if it is just so many letters, spaces, and punctuation marks. Yes, at that scale, Shakespeare is also pretty meaningless.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572136 Dec 11, 2012
JOEL wrote:
END OF EGALITARIANISM & THE TRUE WORTH OF A PERSON:
European egalitarianism is an artificial and a damaging institution since equality is not the law of nature.
In nature, we always see a gradation among groups of different entities and within a particular group of entities (of the same kind) as well and this principle of distinctiveness or gradation is also seen among the human species in terms of eugenics, capacity and socio-economic status.
While we may afford equal opportunities to all, we should drop the perverse idea of the equality of human beings.
No two human beings are equal though similarities may exist.
Equality signifies stagnation and death; equity, which accords to each entity a specific slot in the cosmic hierarchy based on nature and capacity, symbolizes dynamism and growth.
Each should evolve along the line that's best suited to his nature, capacity and environment.
There are two benchmarks to determine the status of an individual - eugenic grade and psychological type.
Through these media the individual's consciousness effulges and is conditioned by them.
This is the law governing the evolution of consciousness in individuals that reflects the actual worth of a person.
Whenever the law of equality is the law of nature. Nature moves towards states of equality and consistency.

All the phenomena which play a role in forming the universe operate according to the law of equality. Notice the heat, the water and the air (pressure); all moving from where they are concentrated to where they are not (present). That is the principle by which all things come forth; by moving towards states of equality.

You speak of a conscious universe of sorts; but that consciousness doesn't seem to imply any form of intelligence. No consciousness which does not have the law of equality as its primary operating principle can be described as intelligent.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#572137 Dec 11, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
. I see great hope for the future. You see apocalypse, right?
God Himself wrote:
That part of your post is the true definition of a "pipe dream". You have got to be smoking some shit to conceive of something like that, while life and existence have no true purpose, as your science reveals.
It would be nice if you would be specific. I can't tell if your "true definition of a pipe dream" refers to my optimism or to the Christian apocalyptic vision.

Whichever it is, though, you don't really have much to offer here. I can't imagine wanting to think like you do. My worldview is much more vibrant and alive than yours.

Where do you find purpose in your life if not in the places that I do? In the idea that you might get to worship a god forever? My life already has more meaning than that.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572138 Dec 11, 2012
JOEL wrote:
THE ULTIMATE REALITY & THE LIMITATIONS OF SCIENCE & RELIGION:
...
4) The ultimate reality is pure existence in which the subtlest ranges of consciousness and energy are so intimately involved in each other that they're indistinguishable and unmanifest and nothing of the manifested aspects of the unified field of consciousness-energy remains - motion and rest, subtle and gross, name and namelessness, form and formlessness, attribution and non-attribution, mutability and immutability, existence and non-existence are alien to this ultimate state of pure existence.
That ultimate reality you describe seems to be already manifested as this present physical universe: "the subtlest ranges of consciousness and energy" are intimately interwoven on this physical plane.

Is this gross material/physical plane your idea of the ultimate reality?
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572140 Dec 11, 2012
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
define reality
and
to what extent do you "think" that reality is shared?
when you and I look at the same object (from different perspectives) and for me the object is ruff and for you the object is smooth,--- if we were to change places, will our perception then reflect that of the other? or does it remain as it was? Is the object, in reality, smooth on one side and ruff on the other, or is one of us damaged in our perspective? and finally if the last is true, that is "one of us is wrong" how do we determine the truth?
Before I proceed to define reality as such, let me address the other ideas.

If I look at one side of the object and see that it is smooth, then it should follow that while our mechanisms of perception operate similarly and are in a similar state of functioning; you will see the smoothness when you look at it also.

When two people look at the same object, they naturally see the same image. But if they are looking at the same image from diffident angles , they will see different images, but these images are made by the same object.

A person looking at the side of a cylinder will see a LENGTHY : while a person looking at it from the top will see a CIRCULAR form.

What are you talking about when you mention damaged perspective? I fail to see how damaged perspective could be involved in the analogy unless one person viewing the objects was blind.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572142 Dec 11, 2012
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
are the attributes of the god the same for all who perceive him, or are the attributes of the god unique to each person who perceives the god?
Lets see:

Do all persons respond to the same influences in the same way?

Do all persons experience the same things to the same degrees?

How is it that everyone can taste ice cream without agreeing that a particular flavour is the best; all of them having a different experience/perception of the same thing?

I will leave you to attempt to answer your own question now; because no suggestion put forward to you seems to make sense to you except your own.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#572144 Dec 11, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
If a race of gods appeared today, I'd be learning as much as I could about them before morning.
God Himself wrote:
What race of gods; the race of the god/gods that you dont believe in
Yes.
God Himself wrote:
Isn't Jesus a historical character?
It's hard to say how much reality is in the Jesus stories. There was definitely no supernaturalism: nobody born to a virgin, nobody following stars to mangers, nobody performing miracles, and nobody resurrected from the dead.

Was there an itinerant holy man named Jesus? Probably. Probably several.

Was there a Jesus of Nazareth? Probably not, Nazareth doesn't seem to have existed when it was needed. And we know that there was no census in Bethlehem when it was needed to support the story.

My guess is that there was no Jesus - that the character was purely a composite based on earlier mythological traditions.
God Himself wrote:
Will his historical reality cease to be true if the biblical history about Him is less than accurate?
No, not necessarily. But his relevance will plummet.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#572145 Dec 11, 2012
God Himself wrote:
Can Jehovah not be understood or appreciated outside of Christianity?
Sure. I understand Jehovah and appreciate its significance.
God Himself wrote:
Go eat spit.
Once again, you really have nothing to offer with this stuff. Look at how frustrated you are. What happened to your promised "peace that passeth all understanding " and assorted "fruits of the spirit" such as joy, gentleness, and self-control? All you got was frustrated anger.

You have as much chance of selling people on your religion posting like you do as a publicly drunken alcoholic staggering door to door while stinking of booze has of trying to sell people on the virtues of alcoholism.

I just thought that you might like to know in case that's not what you were going for.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572146 Dec 11, 2012
Somali Pirate wrote:
<quoted text>
Where are the dinosaurs in the bible?
The flood ordeal
A guy swallowed by a fish
No can live to 300
........
Dinosaurs?!

Where is bacteria in the bible?

Dumb ass.....
It's not a biology book.

Since: Dec 12

Nizhniy Tagil, Russia

#572147 Dec 11, 2012
Apocalypse666 wrote:
Come on and do it.
Prove there's a god.
Don;t read off scripture or anything like that just prove there's a god.
God is there, because there we are!

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#572148 Dec 11, 2012
Laconic Assassins wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, that is all it has, since it is Hiding's troll. It even brags about being mentally ill and certified as such.:(
d'ya think? i don't know who's who anymore.....:(

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572149 Dec 11, 2012
Somali Pirate wrote:
god cannot be omniscient and omnipotent.
Therefore your god does not exist.
And this does not even begin to touch on free will.
Oh, I gotsta hear this....

Please explain how God cannot be omniscient and omnipotent.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572150 Dec 11, 2012
JOEL wrote:
QUESTION:
BELIEVERS,
What exactly, in terms of its material and force composition, is meant by the word "spirit"?
You are looking for a liquid definition of fire, so to speak.

According to the school of thought of Jesu(s) spirit is more of a mental quality than a materail one.

He said: "The words that I speak unto you are spirit and they are life" or in a different manner "My mental conceptions are spiritual and energy/energetic".

That which is spiritual has no materialistic part. But the spiritual can INDUCE forces in the material world through the conscious effort.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#572152 Dec 11, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
It's really a shame what they did to you. My life is full of meaning, purpose, hope, enthusiasm and vitality. You sound dead already.
BTW, you're utilizing a fallacy that I can't find a name for, so I call it the fallacy of scale. A life has meaning at a certain scale of space and time. At too small a size or for too short a time, life as no meaning. For particles decaying in nanoseconds, most of the qualities of our experience don't exist. There is no wetness there, and no glare. There is no humor and no fear.
Likewise, from too far away, or when looking at too large a volume of space, once again, there is no sign of life at all. And over deep time, no life time matters at all.
That's your argument - that in the grand scheme of things, considering the whole universe over trillions of years, my life doesn't matter. I agree.
But that's a fallacy to say that what is true at an extreme scale is true at all scales. We don't exist at the level of the grand scheme of things - just in a few square miles of the surface of one small planet for a few decades.
Why should my influence be expected to extend so far into time and space - or its failure to do so - constitute the basis of an argument against it having meaning? It shouldn't and it doesn't.
Notice that you're using the cosmological scale to negate the meaning in a life. More commonly, it's done at the microscopic level: "If we're nothing but chemicals,our lives cannot have meaning." It's as fallacious as calling Shakespeare meaningless if it is just so many letters, spaces, and punctuation marks. Yes, at that scale, Shakespeare is also pretty meaningless.
"My life is full of meaning, purpose, hope..."

would you mind clarifying that 'hope' piece please?

how could anyone who believes in & promotes eternal extinction POSSIBLY have hope???

you're (relatively) vain existence is fix'n to come to screeching hault in a (relatively) short period of time!
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572153 Dec 11, 2012
JOEL wrote:
JESUS ADVOCATED VIOLENCE, SECTARIANISM & FANATICISM:
i can understand the naked violence and bloodshed and hatred and sectarianism indulged in by YHVH, the Hebrew pagan deity. But, for the exalted Prince of Peace, Jesus, to exhibit bigotry and advocate violence is a big shock:
1)36 and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
- Luke, 22/36
2) Christ also declared in the New Testament (Matthew, 10/34) that he has come not for peace but to wield a sword.
3) Jesus also says in another chapter of the New Testament (John, 15/6) that one who does not seek shelter in him, will be thrown like a withered branch of tree fit to be burnt in fire.
4) Christ categorically says in the New Testament (Mark, 16/16) that he who believes and is baptized, shall be saved, while he who does not believe (in Christ and Christianity) shall be damned.
5)27. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Luke, 19/27
What kind of a Prince of Peace was Jesus? LOL.
A practical "Prince of Peace" one, who was not of the sort that lived on pipe dreams like you do.

He was not a hypocrite and the order of the day required such thoughts as he expressed.

The people he was among were under oppression. Oppression which is motivated by the greed and wantonness of people who are so called leaders of the people.

It is for the inequality of men that other men suffer; and in order to eliminate suffering, one must eliminate inequality from the human mind and society.

Therefore "he that leads into captivity must be lead into captivity and they that oppress by the sword must be oppressed by the sword." [Book of Revelation/Revolution]

Equality is the essence of peace, and judging by a previous post of yours I would say that you have no appreciation for equality as a natural law/principle; so I don't expect you to understand.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572154 Dec 11, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, genius..... You wrote:
"Use the principle of causation to verify your belief in the existence of the extra-cosmic, anthropomorphic and creationist deity. You will discover that it cannot be done."
Use the principle of causation to verify your belief in the existence of every life on earth evolving from one single cell organism. You will discover that it cannot be done.
But I'm sure your beliefs are too strong to argue with logically.
"My personal feeling is that understanding evolution led me to atheism."
-Richard Dawkins
Again I lol.
He is asking an invalid question. We as believer hold that God was not created/caused; therefore he is beyond the principle of causation.

God uses the principle of causation as a tool for creation; but it does not apply to Him because He was not created. He transcends principle of cause and effect.

His sophisticated babbling is nothing more than that: sophisticated babbling.
hah

Green Bank, WV

#572155 Dec 11, 2012
Believing in something you can't see or prove is one thing, not believing in something you CAN see and have evidence to support is another thing entirely.

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