“It's all about the struggle”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#572115 Dec 11, 2012
Lady Derringer wrote:
Three Questions:
1.) Someone at a party over the weekend (almost caused WW3)was saying there was someone before God. They said it was on You-Tube. Has anyone else heard this rumour?
2.) Muslims believe that Jesus Christ was a prophet and not the son of God.
3.) Doesn't the Christian's and Muslim's main belief contradict each other in a way?
I don't recall Jesus being called the son of God, only the Son of man.(Mt 24:30, etc.)

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#572116 Dec 11, 2012
United in faith wrote:
Boots:
today there was a news article on ABC news.
recapping an interview with Christiane Amanpour (news anchor) with a renowned and well know underwater Archaeologist ROBERT BALLARD. The same archaeologist who found and uncovered the famous Titantic.
He is on a mission to find proof of the Flood of Noah.
which he has.
using high tech Marine robotic technology in the black sea he and his team have uncovered an ancient shoreline some 400 ft below surface, and the carbon dating of the shells and coral date to 5000BC which is the approx time of Noahs flood.
His discoveries do prove a catcestrophic event of a world wide flood.
The article doesn't say his discoveries prove a world wide flood.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidence-sug...

It does say Ballard is attempting to prove a world wide flood, but that the area he is looking at is thought to have been affected by a localized flood that occurred when the Mediterranean Sea flooded the Black Sea region. The shells and coral date to 5000BCE, but the oldest artifact he has discovered so far dates to 500BCE.

Additionally...

Here are some problems for the biblical "world wide" flood.
5th millennium BCE in North American history
http://en.wikipedia.org
List of archaeological periods (North America)
/wiki/List_of_archaeological_p eriods_%28North_America%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_millennium_B...
5th millennium BC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_millennium_B...
Badari culture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badari_culture
Merimde culture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merimde

Those aren't all inclusive, and just represent a few if Ballard is trying to assert a 5000BCE date for the biblical flood.
United in faith wrote:
There will be a 2 part serious called "Back to the begining" by Christian Amanpour with the Archaeologist on Dec 28th (friday) at 9PM ET on ABC
the site i read the news article on was
abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidence-suggests-b...
you can watch the news series yourself on it Dec 28 at 9 pm ET on ABC ....
so don't argue with me about it until AFTER you view the 2 part series for yourself.
The link you provided above does not link to the story you are speaking of.

Why do theists have such a difficult time copying links and pasting them properly?

There is no argument based on the archaeological evidence, unless you are an Abrahamic theist.

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

Boss of the Inland Empire

#572117 Dec 11, 2012
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not terrible Al.
Lol! No you're not!:)

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#572118 Dec 11, 2012
85genius wrote:
<quoted text>
Damn think I must have just wasted my money on that heavenly muck spreader....
I knew the salesman in the dealership didn't seem quite right. ;-)
yep - nothing unclean or that defiles will be allowed in. why the blazes should it be - ain't it enough that we f'd up this world???;)
Headlines

AOL

#572119 Dec 11, 2012
.

***Obama sends MUSLIM Brotherhood F-16 Fighters

&fe ature=plcp

.

“It's all about the struggle”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#572120 Dec 11, 2012
JOEL wrote:
.... But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Luke, 19/27
What kind of a Prince of Peace was Jesus? LOL.
He was telling a story about a man *of noble birth*, beginning at Luke 19:11-27, IOWs "the parable of ten pounds". "He said therefore, a certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom,...blah, blah, blah,...But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and sly them before me." What do you think he meant by the parable? Can you use "perspective", put yourself inside the story or catch a hint as to what Jesus implied by it?

Geez, I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in you guys' quoting the bible but you just keep sucking me back in with yer stupidity. Bible search is so freaking tedious.

Please try harder to understand what you read. I'm tired of doing it for you.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#572121 Dec 11, 2012
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Where do you view penes?
Would you like to be my new wittle boi?
are insults and angst all you can bring to a debate about your eternal soul???

cmon tammy, you're asian so you must be at least a little smarter than this:)

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#572122 Dec 11, 2012
God Himself wrote:
The fact that each reader receives a different meaning suggests that God is multifaceted and that He has many different attributes/potentials which may be appealed to separately.
When the many meanings that people impute to scripture are mostly mutually exclusive, it suggests that nothing interesting or special is happening there. If a god is involved, it's not communicating very well.
hah

Green Bank, WV

#572129 Dec 11, 2012
Laconic Assassins wrote:
I suspect that gay friendly means that you are friendly to gays who abuse children.
I suspect christian friendly means that you are friendly to christians who abuse children.
hah

Green Bank, WV

#572131 Dec 11, 2012
Laconic Assassins wrote:
<quoted text>That is a lie. We have exposed to lies in evolution, causing atheists to reinvent evoltuion and change directions. Exactly who has found evidence of untruths in the Bible? Was it a family member, a neighbor or soime random person walking the streets? It surely was not found in science.
Exactly who has found evidence of untruths in evolution? Was it a family member, a neighbor or some random person walking the street? It surely was not found in science.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572132 Dec 11, 2012
JOEL wrote:
MUSINGS ON THE NATURE OF REALITY:
...
7) Perfection of matter is thus the highest achievement, no more escapism into the higher realms.
8) Destroy the cross - the symbol of impotence, pain, treachery, death and escapism.
9) Salvation is physical.
From 7-9, I dont quite agree with.

On 8:
Well, 8 might be a valid concept to some degree. Even a Christian may agree with that to some extent.

On 7:

Matter is only one type of material. I agree that perfection of MATERIAL is the highest achievement; but the perfection of material does not have to mean "the perfection of matter".

On 9:

Salvation must be real, but is the physical state truly the truest, most real, highest, purest or finest state?

I tend to see Salvation as a process of transcending the physical state not perfecting it in itself; because man is necessarily restricted by the limits of his physical being.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#572133 Dec 11, 2012
God Himself wrote:
There is no Christian God you clown; there is only the Christian (or Muslim or Jewish bla bla bla) perception of God.
I realize that.
God Himself wrote:
It is the Christian's perception of God that is flawed; ...
No argument there, either.
God Himself wrote:
... that which is , is God flawless in and of itself.
What?

BTW, given this huge discrepancy between what you say your god is, and what people seem to think about it, I'd have to say that your god seems inarticulate - powerless to communicate.
God Himself wrote:
I have no interest in authoritarian religions. There is no need to be interested in any religion here
Me, neither. So what are we disagreeing about?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#572134 Dec 11, 2012
God Himself wrote:
they have no bearing on nor relationship to the topic "Prove there's a God". God exists independently of religion and biblical scripture.
Then I suggest that you limit your comments to proving there's a god.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Life is quite meaningful to me. I drink up every day with enthusiasm.
God Himself wrote:
That enthusiasm is meaningless and futile; it will return from to the dust from whence it came with no hopes of revival or being "Salvaged". All your enthusiasm and virtue is part and parcel of a meaningless existence
So, your argument is that my god-free life is meaningless, I tell you that it has meaning to me, and you say that that is meaningless, too.

It seems to me that you're the one that doesn't understand what meaning in life is, nor where to find it.

Why would I be interested in such a bleak philosophy as one that taught you to think like that? The one I have now is much better already.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#572135 Dec 11, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
What hope do you see for the future: the hope that life and the universe will grind to a halt and dissolve back into absolute nothingness and chaos? You must be dreaming. LOL!
It's really a shame what they did to you. My life is full of meaning, purpose, hope, enthusiasm and vitality. You sound dead already.

BTW, you're utilizing a fallacy that I can't find a name for, so I call it the fallacy of scale. A life has meaning at a certain scale of space and time. At too small a size or for too short a time, life as no meaning. For particles decaying in nanoseconds, most of the qualities of our experience don't exist. There is no wetness there, and no glare. There is no humor and no fear.

Likewise, from too far away, or when looking at too large a volume of space, once again, there is no sign of life at all. And over deep time, no life time matters at all.

That's your argument - that in the grand scheme of things, considering the whole universe over trillions of years, my life doesn't matter. I agree.

But that's a fallacy to say that what is true at an extreme scale is true at all scales. We don't exist at the level of the grand scheme of things - just in a few square miles of the surface of one small planet for a few decades.

Why should my influence be expected to extend so far into time and space - or its failure to do so - constitute the basis of an argument against it having meaning? It shouldn't and it doesn't.

Notice that you're using the cosmological scale to negate the meaning in a life. More commonly, it's done at the microscopic level: "If we're nothing but chemicals,our lives cannot have meaning." It's as fallacious as calling Shakespeare meaningless if it is just so many letters, spaces, and punctuation marks. Yes, at that scale, Shakespeare is also pretty meaningless.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572136 Dec 11, 2012
JOEL wrote:
END OF EGALITARIANISM & THE TRUE WORTH OF A PERSON:
European egalitarianism is an artificial and a damaging institution since equality is not the law of nature.
In nature, we always see a gradation among groups of different entities and within a particular group of entities (of the same kind) as well and this principle of distinctiveness or gradation is also seen among the human species in terms of eugenics, capacity and socio-economic status.
While we may afford equal opportunities to all, we should drop the perverse idea of the equality of human beings.
No two human beings are equal though similarities may exist.
Equality signifies stagnation and death; equity, which accords to each entity a specific slot in the cosmic hierarchy based on nature and capacity, symbolizes dynamism and growth.
Each should evolve along the line that's best suited to his nature, capacity and environment.
There are two benchmarks to determine the status of an individual - eugenic grade and psychological type.
Through these media the individual's consciousness effulges and is conditioned by them.
This is the law governing the evolution of consciousness in individuals that reflects the actual worth of a person.
Whenever the law of equality is the law of nature. Nature moves towards states of equality and consistency.

All the phenomena which play a role in forming the universe operate according to the law of equality. Notice the heat, the water and the air (pressure); all moving from where they are concentrated to where they are not (present). That is the principle by which all things come forth; by moving towards states of equality.

You speak of a conscious universe of sorts; but that consciousness doesn't seem to imply any form of intelligence. No consciousness which does not have the law of equality as its primary operating principle can be described as intelligent.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#572137 Dec 11, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
. I see great hope for the future. You see apocalypse, right?
God Himself wrote:
That part of your post is the true definition of a "pipe dream". You have got to be smoking some shit to conceive of something like that, while life and existence have no true purpose, as your science reveals.
It would be nice if you would be specific. I can't tell if your "true definition of a pipe dream" refers to my optimism or to the Christian apocalyptic vision.

Whichever it is, though, you don't really have much to offer here. I can't imagine wanting to think like you do. My worldview is much more vibrant and alive than yours.

Where do you find purpose in your life if not in the places that I do? In the idea that you might get to worship a god forever? My life already has more meaning than that.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572138 Dec 11, 2012
JOEL wrote:
THE ULTIMATE REALITY & THE LIMITATIONS OF SCIENCE & RELIGION:
...
4) The ultimate reality is pure existence in which the subtlest ranges of consciousness and energy are so intimately involved in each other that they're indistinguishable and unmanifest and nothing of the manifested aspects of the unified field of consciousness-energy remains - motion and rest, subtle and gross, name and namelessness, form and formlessness, attribution and non-attribution, mutability and immutability, existence and non-existence are alien to this ultimate state of pure existence.
That ultimate reality you describe seems to be already manifested as this present physical universe: "the subtlest ranges of consciousness and energy" are intimately interwoven on this physical plane.

Is this gross material/physical plane your idea of the ultimate reality?
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572140 Dec 11, 2012
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
define reality
and
to what extent do you "think" that reality is shared?
when you and I look at the same object (from different perspectives) and for me the object is ruff and for you the object is smooth,--- if we were to change places, will our perception then reflect that of the other? or does it remain as it was? Is the object, in reality, smooth on one side and ruff on the other, or is one of us damaged in our perspective? and finally if the last is true, that is "one of us is wrong" how do we determine the truth?
Before I proceed to define reality as such, let me address the other ideas.

If I look at one side of the object and see that it is smooth, then it should follow that while our mechanisms of perception operate similarly and are in a similar state of functioning; you will see the smoothness when you look at it also.

When two people look at the same object, they naturally see the same image. But if they are looking at the same image from diffident angles , they will see different images, but these images are made by the same object.

A person looking at the side of a cylinder will see a LENGTHY : while a person looking at it from the top will see a CIRCULAR form.

What are you talking about when you mention damaged perspective? I fail to see how damaged perspective could be involved in the analogy unless one person viewing the objects was blind.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572142 Dec 11, 2012
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
are the attributes of the god the same for all who perceive him, or are the attributes of the god unique to each person who perceives the god?
Lets see:

Do all persons respond to the same influences in the same way?

Do all persons experience the same things to the same degrees?

How is it that everyone can taste ice cream without agreeing that a particular flavour is the best; all of them having a different experience/perception of the same thing?

I will leave you to attempt to answer your own question now; because no suggestion put forward to you seems to make sense to you except your own.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#572144 Dec 11, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
If a race of gods appeared today, I'd be learning as much as I could about them before morning.
God Himself wrote:
What race of gods; the race of the god/gods that you dont believe in
Yes.
God Himself wrote:
Isn't Jesus a historical character?
It's hard to say how much reality is in the Jesus stories. There was definitely no supernaturalism: nobody born to a virgin, nobody following stars to mangers, nobody performing miracles, and nobody resurrected from the dead.

Was there an itinerant holy man named Jesus? Probably. Probably several.

Was there a Jesus of Nazareth? Probably not, Nazareth doesn't seem to have existed when it was needed. And we know that there was no census in Bethlehem when it was needed to support the story.

My guess is that there was no Jesus - that the character was purely a composite based on earlier mythological traditions.
God Himself wrote:
Will his historical reality cease to be true if the biblical history about Him is less than accurate?
No, not necessarily. But his relevance will plummet.

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