“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#572152 Dec 11, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
It's really a shame what they did to you. My life is full of meaning, purpose, hope, enthusiasm and vitality. You sound dead already.
BTW, you're utilizing a fallacy that I can't find a name for, so I call it the fallacy of scale. A life has meaning at a certain scale of space and time. At too small a size or for too short a time, life as no meaning. For particles decaying in nanoseconds, most of the qualities of our experience don't exist. There is no wetness there, and no glare. There is no humor and no fear.
Likewise, from too far away, or when looking at too large a volume of space, once again, there is no sign of life at all. And over deep time, no life time matters at all.
That's your argument - that in the grand scheme of things, considering the whole universe over trillions of years, my life doesn't matter. I agree.
But that's a fallacy to say that what is true at an extreme scale is true at all scales. We don't exist at the level of the grand scheme of things - just in a few square miles of the surface of one small planet for a few decades.
Why should my influence be expected to extend so far into time and space - or its failure to do so - constitute the basis of an argument against it having meaning? It shouldn't and it doesn't.
Notice that you're using the cosmological scale to negate the meaning in a life. More commonly, it's done at the microscopic level: "If we're nothing but chemicals,our lives cannot have meaning." It's as fallacious as calling Shakespeare meaningless if it is just so many letters, spaces, and punctuation marks. Yes, at that scale, Shakespeare is also pretty meaningless.
"My life is full of meaning, purpose, hope..."

would you mind clarifying that 'hope' piece please?

how could anyone who believes in & promotes eternal extinction POSSIBLY have hope???

you're (relatively) vain existence is fix'n to come to screeching hault in a (relatively) short period of time!
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572153 Dec 11, 2012
JOEL wrote:
JESUS ADVOCATED VIOLENCE, SECTARIANISM & FANATICISM:
i can understand the naked violence and bloodshed and hatred and sectarianism indulged in by YHVH, the Hebrew pagan deity. But, for the exalted Prince of Peace, Jesus, to exhibit bigotry and advocate violence is a big shock:
1)36 and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
- Luke, 22/36
2) Christ also declared in the New Testament (Matthew, 10/34) that he has come not for peace but to wield a sword.
3) Jesus also says in another chapter of the New Testament (John, 15/6) that one who does not seek shelter in him, will be thrown like a withered branch of tree fit to be burnt in fire.
4) Christ categorically says in the New Testament (Mark, 16/16) that he who believes and is baptized, shall be saved, while he who does not believe (in Christ and Christianity) shall be damned.
5)27. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Luke, 19/27
What kind of a Prince of Peace was Jesus? LOL.
A practical "Prince of Peace" one, who was not of the sort that lived on pipe dreams like you do.

He was not a hypocrite and the order of the day required such thoughts as he expressed.

The people he was among were under oppression. Oppression which is motivated by the greed and wantonness of people who are so called leaders of the people.

It is for the inequality of men that other men suffer; and in order to eliminate suffering, one must eliminate inequality from the human mind and society.

Therefore "he that leads into captivity must be lead into captivity and they that oppress by the sword must be oppressed by the sword." [Book of Revelation/Revolution]

Equality is the essence of peace, and judging by a previous post of yours I would say that you have no appreciation for equality as a natural law/principle; so I don't expect you to understand.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572154 Dec 11, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, genius..... You wrote:
"Use the principle of causation to verify your belief in the existence of the extra-cosmic, anthropomorphic and creationist deity. You will discover that it cannot be done."
Use the principle of causation to verify your belief in the existence of every life on earth evolving from one single cell organism. You will discover that it cannot be done.
But I'm sure your beliefs are too strong to argue with logically.
"My personal feeling is that understanding evolution led me to atheism."
-Richard Dawkins
Again I lol.
He is asking an invalid question. We as believer hold that God was not created/caused; therefore he is beyond the principle of causation.

God uses the principle of causation as a tool for creation; but it does not apply to Him because He was not created. He transcends principle of cause and effect.

His sophisticated babbling is nothing more than that: sophisticated babbling.
hah

Green Bank, WV

#572155 Dec 11, 2012
Believing in something you can't see or prove is one thing, not believing in something you CAN see and have evidence to support is another thing entirely.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572158 Dec 11, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I realize that.
<quoted text>
No argument there, either.
<quoted text>
What?
BTW, given this huge discrepancy between what you say your god is, and what people seem to think about it, I'd have to say that your god seems inarticulate - powerless to communicate.
<quoted text>
Me, neither. So what are we disagreeing about?
I was waiting for this.

There was a typo. The correct(ed) expression is "that which IS God IS flawless in and of itself".

My God is not powerless to communicate; it is you that lack the will or are otherwise failing to show appreciation. One can lead a horse to water; but he cannot force that horse to drink.

What you seem to be asking is that God impress Himself upon your or their consciousnesses.

But if He did that, then you would not have reached knowledge by force and not by reason; and that is little different from oppression.

One can lead a horse to water; but he cannot force that horse to drink. He can use things to communicate to you, but if you don't decide to listen, you don't have to hear Him Speak.

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

just better than yesterday

#572159 Dec 11, 2012
Somali Pirate wrote:
<quoted text>
If god is all knowing he knows all. Past, present and future.
If god knows the future than it is already determined and he is powerless to change it.
If he in fact has the power to change the future than the future is undetermined and he is not all knowing.
Psssst..... God probably made alternate time lines.... Just saying.....

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#572161 Dec 11, 2012
JOEL wrote:
8) Destroy the cross - the symbol of impotence, pain, treachery, death and escapism.
This one should get a few Christians' dander up.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572162 Dec 11, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
... A life has meaning at a certain scale of space and time...
All that meaningfulness means nothing WHEN the certain scale of space and time is ended.

Your life is meaninglessly meaningful. I get it.

By the way, in light of scientific fact that you provided, all that meaning you speak of is pure philosophy and "pipe dreaming".

Science proves/supports my claim that your existence is meaningless, eventually futile.

Science itself agrees with me that your existence is meaningless.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572163 Dec 11, 2012
Somali Pirate wrote:
<quoted text>
If god is all knowing he knows all. Past, present and future.
If god knows the future than it is already determined and he is powerless to change it.
If he in fact has the power to change the future than the future is undetermined and he is not all knowing.
OK, I've heard it....

The pirate is giving God human attributes & limitations....

Got it.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572165 Dec 11, 2012
Somali Pirate wrote:
god cannot be omniscient and omnipotent...
Lets begin by asking: how did you arrive at this conclusion?

By what line of logic or method of research or experimentation?

It is certainly not a scientifically valid expression; because science cannot be built on a negative argument.

Therefore the moment you assume the negative; you enter the realm of unscientific garbage. But that seems to be your natural habitat. Let me know whats going on.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572166 Dec 11, 2012
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
He is asking an invalid question. We as believer hold that God was not created/caused; therefore he is beyond the principle of causation.
God uses the principle of causation as a tool for creation; but it does not apply to Him because He was not created. He transcends principle of cause and effect.
His sophisticated babbling is nothing more than that: sophisticated babbling.
You are correct.

God is the cause AND the effect.

*atheists are scratching their heads now*
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572167 Dec 11, 2012
Somali Pirate wrote:
<quoted text>
So if you are blind you simply believe what others tell you is the truth?
No. Thats what YOU do.

You cant see the reality, so you rely on others men's idea to define your reality. You call it scientific thought.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572169 Dec 11, 2012
Somali Pirate wrote:
<quoted text>
God made man in the and beasts in some order of a couple days depending on which book of the bible you read.
Dinosaurs predate humans by millions that's 1000000's of years. How long are gods days?
You're applying a very common atheist mistake: God doesn't have "days".....

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#572170 Dec 11, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
This one should get a few Christians' dander up.
Not so much.

*YAAAAAAWNS*

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#572171 Dec 11, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Dinosaurs?!
Where is bacteria in the bible?
Dumb ass.....
It's not a biology book.
RIIIIGHT...

It's a book of mythology.

You tell'em, Ar Ar.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#572174 Dec 11, 2012
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
All that meaningfulness means nothing WHEN the certain scale of space and time is ended.
Your life is meaninglessly meaningful. I get it.
By the way, in light of scientific fact that you provided, all that meaning you speak of is pure philosophy and "pipe dreaming".
Science proves/supports my claim that your existence is meaningless, eventually futile.
Science itself agrees with me that your existence is meaningless.
The light from a candle is not meaningless because the candle is eventually blown out.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#572175 Dec 11, 2012
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
Lets begin by asking: how did you arrive at this conclusion?
By what line of logic or method of research or experimentation?
It is certainly not a scientifically valid expression; because science cannot be built on a negative argument.
Not at all sure why you would think that. I can think of several 'negative arguments' that are very important in science. For example, that the different types of perpetual motion machines are impossible. That violation of any number of conservation laws is impossible. That global decrease of entropy is impossible.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572176 Dec 11, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Yes.
<quoted text>
It's hard to say how much reality is in the Jesus stories. There was definitely no supernaturalism: nobody born to a virgin, nobody following stars to mangers, nobody performing miracles, and nobody resurrected from the dead.
Was there an itinerant holy man named Jesus? Probably. Probably several.
Was there a Jesus of Nazareth? Probably not, Nazareth doesn't seem to have existed when it was needed. And we know that there was no census in Bethlehem when it was needed to support the story.
My guess is that there was no Jesus - that the character was purely a composite based on earlier mythological traditions.
<quoted text>
No, not necessarily. But his relevance will plummet.
I notice that you doctored my quote: "What race of gods; the race of the god/gods that you dont believe in"...

Thats not fair; but science is not about fairness so I dont expect scientific thinkers to have much equity in thought or action.

You would love to hear that there is no evidence of a historical Jesus; but thats your fatal flaw.

The historical existence of Jesus is confessed even by people who should have been more interested to see his memory wiped out of the earth. Even those who should have preferred to see the memory of him wiped out reported about him.

That stunt was tried by one evolution theory advocate who had to apologize for it.

At the point: 9:30

&fe ature=related

You are a liar and the product of liars.

You dont even understand what is meant by the expression "there is no need for God". That term relates to the idea that it is not necessary to involve God in studying the universe; but the absence of a need to involve God in the investigation does not mean He was not involved in the creation.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572178 Dec 11, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
The light from a candle is not meaningless because the candle is eventually blown out.
But when all the world that the candle is in will dissolve into non-existence; the world, the light, the candle and even the person who lighted it are meaningless.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#572179 Dec 11, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all sure why you would think that. I can think of several 'negative arguments' that are very important in science. For example, that the different types of perpetual motion machines are impossible. That violation of any number of conservation laws is impossible. That global decrease of entropy is impossible.
The moment you can build a science on a negative argument; you have open the floodgates for all kinds of entities.

If you open the floodgates of valid negative arguments; you'll be up to your neck in mythical creatures by tomorrow. Good luck!

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