Prove there's a god.

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#571768
Dec 10, 2012
 

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Al Garcia wrote:
something to think about.
http://wimp.com/humanrace/
Very nice, Al. I liked that.

I especially appreciate you posting it given that it wasn't very flattering to religion, this time pointing at the Muslims and Jews.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

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#571769
Dec 10, 2012
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>I actually believe that altruism is commoner than most people think.
Ms. Spock:.. logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

MAC: Or the one.

Ms. Spock: You are my superior officer. You are also my friend. I have been and always shall be yours.

Since: Jul 09

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#571770
Dec 10, 2012
 

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BadBreathBruce wrote:
<quoted text> I'm sorry, but I beg to differ. I believe we are morally bankrupt almost to the point of no return. Besides, didn't all morality originate from religion in the first place?? Sorry for raining on your parade, karl44!!
religion is the problem, and if you cannot see any moral improvement over the last couple of centuries, you are looking too much to the interior, do not use yourself as an example.
Huh

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#571771
Dec 10, 2012
 

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Davin wrote:
<quoted text>
One could argue that man brought on such syndroms as touretts and mental illness out of mans own thurst for corrupting everything decent and good. genetic dispositions didnt just happen there was a reason, its the same reason that we are not all mentally Ill, though it is noones fault that they are born this way, it still doesnt disprove that man is directly responsible for such genetic mutations
Then your god is a sic, twisted twit. Is there free will in your version of Heaven?

Since: Jul 09

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#571772
Dec 10, 2012
 

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Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
To most Christians the only true words are the words that were told to them by their parents or Grandparents, read about in the Bible and verified by their pastors. Along comes someone and tells them that what they've heard, what they've known what they've cherished and who've they've cherished it from is not true? And in most of those cases IANS (maybe not in your case but in most others out there) they're told in a not so nice way that they've been lied to, or are crazy. And one wonders why we become hostile? It's the Equivalent of being told that your parents aren't your real parents, or the that person telling you this is for whatever reason attempting to maliciously lie to you and hurt you.
Of course a Christian is going to resist, get angry and respond with a defense that may be less than civil. They feel that... Know that... What they know is the truth and along comes this person telling them otherwise. We've been told that Satan will come along to do just that. And guess what?! There is a real fear of Satan and its easy to now see him in the flesh delivering the message that we were told would come.
It's really not difficult for me to see where the hostility comes from. Perhaps I don't personally fear Satan. Perhaps I've toyed with the idea that he may not exist. That may well be why I personally do not respond with hostility. But I cannot speak for all my Christian brethren on this but only my own. Perhaps my lack of fear of Satan will be my undoing at my end, but only time and God will tell.
eternal punishment for lack of belief

substitutional atonement

criminal responsibility for the actions of a distant relative

these are some of the things, that should tell a thinking person, that there is something wrong with the entire story.

There is a moral obligation to employ intellect, most christians fail this moral test, most christians fail most moral tests; they have adopted a failed moral system.
Huh

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#571773
Dec 10, 2012
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
America is spiritually constipated now, and that's largely due to its Christian influence. For example, the constant negativity about science is robbing tens of millions of Americans of the spiritual experience - the sense of awe and of connectivity - that a scientific education facilitates. We are connected to all other life on earth and to the stars. This world is marvelous, and man is a noble beast.
Christianity poisons all of that. It keeps the individual in a fearful and immature state, dependent, and despising his own nature.
Dominant cultures are in the people making business. Christian culture is simply a failure at that. We benefited by expunging it from government, and I'm pretty sure we'll benefit again expunging it from the role of determining such societal values in America as its scapegoating of gays, its antiscientism, its dehumanizing of atheists, its oppression of women's freedoms, its deep pessimism about man, and its intense sexual prudery.
We should be better off without any of those Christian inputs. And maybe with the Christian out of the way, maybe America can do a better job as a nation embodying the Golden Rule.
There are fine examples of this all over Scandanavia and Western Europe..
Huh

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#571774
Dec 10, 2012
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
What you seem to be overlooking is that unbelievers wouldn't be interested in the words or perspectives of anybody that isn't a god in a matter such as this. What kind of god lets humans add to and corrupt his message? A nonexistent one, that's what kind.
You can't sell skeptics on the authenticity of your bible and its allegedly perfect author with a book full of contradictions that you blame on human authors. Can you see that?
That always surprises me. They claim presentism, zeitgeist, and secret decoder interpretation as necessity for composition and elucidation of an allegedly perfect being, yet each interprets it to their own prejudice. Weird.
Huh

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#571775
Dec 10, 2012
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Jessie is usually a girl, and Jesse a boy. This happens a lot with Anglicized names. Frances is a girl and Francis a boy, Joe is a boy and Jo a girl. Billy, Charley and Ricky are boys, but Billie, Charlie and Rickie are usually girls.
Some change spelling more. Geri and Erin are girls, while Jerry and Aaron are boys.
There are also a few that don't change form between the sexes, such as Christ, Pat, Casey, Lindsay, Kelly, Leslie, and Kim for example.
Shesus was a girl and Jesus is imaginary.

Since: Jun 12

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#571776
Dec 10, 2012
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Woah cowboy , this sheer sayin..
"Under different circumstances that is what happened in history when atheism was embraced? "
Is completely wrong.
Because this sheer statement.
"Why not people serve me and i take everything and give nothing"
Is not embracing atheism , rather it is one person embracing his big ole greedy bear self. Gots nothing to do with embracing anything but greedy paws.
Know what I mean cow poke?
Yeah it means you are in denial about the real consequences of your atheism and history. A person at work has an exchange student from Germany. She has said in East Germany if a young person got confirmed in either the Catholic or Lutheren church they were automatically denied college under the Communists. You need to read books about people who went to Gulags, had their property seized. Look at Ayn Rand who was big on property rights. Her whole family had their property seized and they got the boot. The killing off of people because they completed college and were not Communists. You got you head so far up your behind on this one, you cannot see the light of day.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#571777
Dec 10, 2012
 

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BadBreathBruce wrote:
I'm sorry, but I beg to differ. I believe we are morally bankrupt almost to the point of no return.
I don't see that. That's not my world. How can we account for that? First, could our worlds be that different? Could we both be right? I should mention that I am very lucky, and life has been good to me. Maybe your path has been less well paved.

Maybe that path has been interrupted by more corruption and betrayal than mine. I've been victim of a fair amount of both, but still feel pretty good about mankind and the world.

Yes, there are a lot of malformed people out there. But that is part of what this culture war is about: the right to choose which values, attitudes and behaviors to encourage, and which to shun. I feel optimistic about the future in that area. I see Christianity as the walking dead in the West, presently losing its hegemony in America, its last stronghold. That's going to be healthy for mankind. That means better neighbors.

Where I worry is in the political arena. I see liberalism in America as just as dead as Christianity. We lost that one, and that means worse government.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#571778
Dec 10, 2012
 

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BadBreathBruce wrote:
Besides, didn't all morality originate from religion in the first place??
The morals embodied in the Old Testament are the dicta of relatively brutal, cruel, patriarchal, authoritarian men of antiquity that established the institution of the priesthood to indoctrinate, terrorize, control and exploit other men. Rational ethics - meaning secular ethics - has been carving away at all of that ever since.

Our moral system is evolving, which is why the Old Testament god - the bellicose monster Jehovah - morphed into the New Testament god, the gentle Jesus, complete with a whole new and improved set of laws, including the Golden Rule.

We've made a lot of updates since Jesus time, and now consider much of his moral character inadequate. Nevertheless, Christians making the moral argument for god still talk about the existence of an absolute, objective morality, and that they have access to it. Go figure.

The latest version of ethics does away with the god altogether, and is embodied in the Affirmations of Humanism.

Christians are still busily assimilating secularists values, but always a few steps behind those that have left religion, and never acknowledging the secularist contribution to their belief set.

Instead, they continue to give all the credit to some allegedly perfect and timeless god which is obviously evolving as well.

But how would people ever reject stoning children to death once established into law and tradition, and sanctified by the imprimatur of a god, if not from men that simply rejected the ideas anyway? Jehovah never recanted it, did he? It was a freethinker that simply said "Nonsense," and most of the West eventually agreed.

Later, secularists told them to stop burning people, and later still, that it was wrong to own people as slaves or beat them if you did. The Christians seem to have assimilated all of that, although clearly none of it came from their bible.

Nevertheless, they still somehow credit the god and remain oblivious to the value of rational, compassionate ethics, and the part that it has played in reshaped their thinking.

Did you also fail to note that their bible is not their only source of ethics any more? Your comment implies that you did. Are you also a Christian?

So what standard are Christians using when cherry picking which of their 613 Commandments to ignore? Secularist values, of course. What else is there? Islam?

And today, we are teaching the Christian world even more moral refinements, such as that gay and atheist people are not immoral, that women are not subordinate to men, that a liberal education and critical thinking are better than authoritarian indoctrination and magical thinking, and that a stem cell is not a citizen.

We'll all be better off when the church shrinks enough to have its values supplanted by secularist ethics. We need the church out of the people shaping business. It does a poor job, and presently, it's simply in the way.
Huh

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#571779
Dec 10, 2012
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Her religion taught her that. It's a rather disgusting thing to think. My main point with her is not how horrible she was, but how the church influenced her life. How about the fraud of accepting millions of dollars intended to ease the suffering of the dying poor, and she forwarded them to perhaps the wealthiest treasury in the world, which kept the money. People trusted that woman.
This is in part why I am EXTREMELY skeptical of all Christian charities. There is virtually no oversight of them, and no will to provide any oversight - just the will to grant tax breaks based on their word.
Christian charities are by definition utterly inefficient. Secular charities out collect and outspend them by monumental numbers.

http://yashwata.info/2010/07/15/charity1/

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#571780
Dec 10, 2012
 
Huh wrote:
<quoted text>That always surprises me. They claim presentism, zeitgeist, and secret decoder interpretation as necessity for composition and elucidation of an allegedly perfect being, yet each interprets it to their own prejudice. Weird.
Yeah and your interpretation of Christians is of your own prejudice. Seems it does not accur to you apply your own standards to your own posts.
Huh

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#571781
Dec 10, 2012
 

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Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
To most Christians the only true words are the words that were told to them by their parents or Grandparents, read about in the Bible and verified by their pastors. Along comes someone and tells them that what they've heard, what they've known what they've cherished and who've they've cherished it from is not true? And in most of those cases IANS (maybe not in your case but in most others out there) they're told in a not so nice way that they've been lied to, or are crazy. And one wonders why we become hostile? It's the Equivalent of being told that your parents aren't your real parents, or the that person telling you this is for whatever reason attempting to maliciously lie to you and hurt you.
Of course a Christian is going to resist, get angry and respond with a defense that may be less than civil. They feel that... Know that... What they know is the truth and along comes this person telling them otherwise. We've been told that Satan will come along to do just that. And guess what?! There is a real fear of Satan and its easy to now see him in the flesh delivering the message that we were told would come.
It's really not difficult for me to see where the hostility comes from. Perhaps I don't personally fear Satan. Perhaps I've toyed with the idea that he may not exist. That may well be why I personally do not respond with hostility. But I cannot speak for all my Christian brethren on this but only my own. Perhaps my lack of fear of Satan will be my undoing at my end, but only time and God will tell.
Yet Christians try to claim that they are unwavering in that faith but change sects or schisms all the time.

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#571782
Dec 10, 2012
 
Huh wrote:
<quoted text>There are fine examples of this all over Scandanavia and Western Europe..
will culture, morality, and scientific advance, survive the coming abrahamic war?
Huh

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#571783
Dec 10, 2012
 

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BadBreathBruce wrote:
<quoted text> I'm sorry, but I beg to differ.

1. I believe we are morally bankrupt almost to the point of no return.

2. Besides, didn't all morality originate from religion in the first place?? Sorry for raining on your parade, karl44!!
1. Speak for yourself.

2. No, religion pretended to be the source of morality. It fills the coffers. There are innumerable examples throughout history of religions being dragged kicking and screaming forward by the secular world. For example, it wasn't until the Constitution that Christians stopped killing Christians just for differing in their sect. It wasn't until the end of WWII that Christians stopped killing Jews.
Huh

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#571784
Dec 10, 2012
 

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BadBreathBruce wrote:
<quoted text> And yet, people SHOULD have changed much - MORALLY - over the centuries, for the BETTER. Why has it gone pear-shaped?? Surely: PHYSICAL Evolution + MENTAL Evolution = MORAL Evolution. It's got me stumped.
They have, especially in modern societies where religion has become a museum piece.
Huh

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#571785
Dec 10, 2012
 

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God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
But there you go.
A theory cannot be proven.
So what is the value of supporting evidence if it does not prove the theory correct?
You're still doing the equivocation fallacy. Stop it.
Huh

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#571786
Dec 10, 2012
 

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God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
I actually did listen to it before I posted it. You are not the individual described in the latter part of the video.
You are the one described in the first part... the one about an atheist being someone who is angry at God...
And, another fallacy. It is impossible to be mad at something that has not been demonstrated to exist. That is childish and ridiculous. Are you mad at leprechauns and unicorns? After all, you would admit they have not been proven to exist, no?

How does a person in 2012 still hold onto such ridiculous concepts as anger at the imaginary?
Huh

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#571787
Dec 10, 2012
 

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God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I am the Evil-lotion character.
That quote does contain terms which allude to "belief in"; but my questions regarding "religious beliefs", I maid no mention about "believing in" anything; so I fail to see why you are differentiating believing in from believing that, in the context.
"I don't trust the sincerity or the motives of posters who come back wearing new identities" either.
But since the value of a person's questions and responses has nothing to do with what name they are posting under; just get with it or get lost.
Weird.

Evolution has nothing to do with belief. Evolution is not a philosophy, moral code, or a belief system. Evolution is just a process by which change occurs in nature. The process of evolution was deduced by interpretation of evidence that holds up to empirical scrutiny. Evolution is like many other natural processes which are deduced by interpretation of evidence. A couple of other processes we have deduced from evidence found in the natural world are erosion and eutrophication.

Evolution has no moral bias, any more than erosion or eutrophication do. Evolution is an explanation of a process which takes nothing into account but the physical evidence and only that evidence which holds up to careful scrutiny. The process by which scientific theories are arrived at and supported has much in common with crime scene investigation. Data surrounding the thing being investigated is collected and examined as scientists compare it to other known quantities and try to puzzle out how the event happened. Any evidence which doesn't hold up to rigorous empirical investigation is discarded.

To make a claim that it has anything to do with belief is the height of dishonesty.

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