Prove there's a god.
Sharkey

Reno, NV

#571677 Dec 9, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
You are wrong, there have been people and there are people in this world that are too good. They honestly don't want anything, but it's a very hard state to reach, so people like that are very hard to find.
That's because there is no such person in this world that are "too good".
Humans use each other for their own gain all the time. They've done it in the past and they will in the future, until humans self-extinct because we used each other up to nothing.
These people may SAY they "honestly don't want anything" - but yes, they DO want something - the acknowledgment of the fact that they honestly don't want anything.
Don't let them fool you. It's phony.
It's STILL a "LOOK AT ME!"
If their good deed is not at least acknowledged, trust me, they'll eventually begin to feel used. And they're right - they HAVE been used.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#571678 Dec 9, 2012
Huh wrote:
Please stop that.

This argument relies on equivocation between two meanings of theory: in common parlance, a theory is an unsupported idea or a "hunch" — e.g., "I have a theory that restaurants make more money off of skinny customers." A scientist would call this a hypothesis, or maybe a conjecture.

A scientific theory is an explanation of some aspect of the real world that is well-supported by evidence. At its core, theory really just means explanation. A hypothesis may become a theory once it has been thoroughly tested through experimentation and has not been disproved, but it will never become a fact, no matter how many tests it passes. The "fact" is the observed aspect of nature itself.

Sometimes it is valid to call something both a fact and a theory. One example of this is gravity. This is the name given to the phenomenon whereby massive bodies are attracted to one other. For example, the moon and the Earth are attracted to each other, which is why they don't fly apart as they move through space. This phenomenon is an observed fact: Henry Cavendish actually measured the force of attraction between two lead spheres back in 1797. Different theories for why and how this phenomenon occurs have been put forth. Newton's theory of gravitation (that it is a force acting instantaneously at a distance) was accepted for centuries until Einstein's general theory of relativity completely changed our understanding of gravity (now considered a warping of space-time). In this sense, gravity is both a fact and a theory.

The same can be said for evolution. If evolution is defined as "allele frequency change in a population over generations" (or, more simply, "populations change over time"), then it is an established fact; not even young-Earth creationists can deny that this takes place. On the other hand, the theory of evolution is a scientific theory that ties together evidence of the types of changes that we see taking place in nature, as well as evidence from fossils, genes, proteins, and so on, to explain why and how evolution happens.

So, cut that nonsense out.
Good post.

I now call the central tenets of the theory of evolution fact. Although no scientific theory can be proven, evolutionary theory comes as close as you can - close enough to call a fact. The theory can't be upturned without discovering something as dramatic as a Matrix reality or Last Thursdayism being the case, or uncovering a trickster god that wanted us to believe that life had evolved. If I can call less well established ideas facts, I think that I can call Darwin's idea fact as well.

What do you think?
Sharkey

Reno, NV

#571679 Dec 9, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
I can tell I made you mad.
No, he's not laughing with you, he's laughing AT you...
Sharkey

Reno, NV

#571680 Dec 9, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
Only stupid people say that.
Only stupid people say THAT.
Stupid.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#571681 Dec 9, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
There are some major problems with "Yoda logic".
Yoda says, "Do, or do not. There is no try."
It's a false dichotomy.
Trying, and failing, is not the same thing as not trying, and getting the same result. Doing without trying, is not the same as trying, and getting the same result.
That just went straight over my head, lol.:-)

I love master Yoda, he's cute!!
Sharkey

Reno, NV

#571682 Dec 9, 2012
Huh wrote:
<quoted text>Please stop that. This argument relies on equivocation between two meanings of theory: in common parlance, a theory is an unsupported idea or a "hunch" — e.g., "I have a theory that restaurants make more money off of skinny customers." A scientist would call this a hypothesis, or maybe a conjecture.
A scientific theory is an explanation of some aspect of the real world that is well-supported by evidence. At its core, theory really just means explanation. A hypothesis may become a theory once it has been thoroughly tested through experimentation and has not been disproved, but it will never become a fact, no matter how many tests it passes. The "fact" is the observed aspect of nature itself.
Sometimes it is valid to call something both a fact and a theory. One example of this is gravity. This is the name given to the phenomenon whereby massive bodies are attracted to one other. For example, the moon and the Earth are attracted to each other, which is why they don't fly apart as they move through space. This phenomenon is an observed fact: Henry Cavendish actually measured the force of attraction between two lead spheres back in 1797. Different theories for why and how this phenomenon occurs have been put forth. Newton's theory of gravitation (that it is a force acting instantaneously at a distance) was accepted for centuries until Einstein's general theory of relativity completely changed our understanding of gravity (now considered a warping of space-time). In this sense, gravity is both a fact and a theory.
The same can be said for evolution. If evolution is defined as "allele frequency change in a population over generations" (or, more simply, "populations change over time"), then it is an established fact; not even young-Earth creationists can deny that this takes place. On the other hand, the theory of evolution is a scientific theory that ties together evidence of the types of changes that we see taking place in nature, as well as evidence from fossils, genes, proteins, and so on, to explain why and how evolution happens.
So, cut that nonsense out.
(Applause)

If there was a "god" it had to have "created" the evolutionary process.
Only a "god" like this can make sense to be in existance.

I think part of the reason there are atheists is that the vision of "god" given by most religious people is a magical figure with a magic wand that "poofed" the universe into existance.

Maybe the debate about "god" will start to wind down when we eventually end up combining the "god" theory with the evolution theory, if we haven't reached that already.

the "Evolution is god" or "God is evolution" theory.

If we combine them we won't have to fight over them anymore. All this fighting over whether or not a "god" exist will only result on the self-extinction of our species.

When we humans combine the two theories, peace will slowly take place as the fights over our differences will begin to dissolve.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#571683 Dec 9, 2012
Sharkey wrote:
<quoted text>That's because there is no such person in this world that are "too good".
Humans use each other for their own gain all the time. They've done it in the past and they will in the future, until humans self-extinct because we used each other up to nothing.
These people may SAY they "honestly don't want anything" - but yes, they DO want something - the acknowledgment of the fact that they honestly don't want anything.
Don't let them fool you. It's phony.
It's STILL a "LOOK AT ME!"
If their good deed is not at least acknowledged, trust me, they'll eventually begin to feel used. And they're right - they HAVE been used.
You can't be right, coz what about sikh history? Sikhs died for others but they got nothing in return but death. I do think that we should look at people like them and salute them, even if they said don't worship us as we are not Gods, we are humans like you, but i think they are Gods in my eyes. They gave up everything to help others and in the end they got nothing. Too good people do exist, they do, they do!!!

“Wrath”

Since: Dec 10

Is revenant

#571684 Dec 9, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Again.....WHAT?
Speak English, love!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plea_bargain

“Wrath”

Since: Dec 10

Is revenant

#571685 Dec 9, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
Your laughing is short term. Your misery is long term.
And your BS never ending....

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#571686 Dec 9, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Becoming physically fit is the first step.
It's not difficult, but requires a goal, commitment, and adhering to a routine.
Having a nice looking workout partner wouldn't hurt either.

That's always motivating.

“Wrath”

Since: Dec 10

Is revenant

#571687 Dec 9, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
What?
He's a she? I thought she's a he?
Aura are you a guy or a woman?
100% Natural Born Killer with a High Testosterone count.

You wanna know how my women know I have a high sperm count too?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#571688 Dec 9, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Shaking the Scary Chicken again? "Arise, Chicken. Arise!" You people are a hoot.Why didn't you get your share of the promised "peace that passeth all understanding" and assorted "fruits of the spirit" such as joy and forbearance? All you got was a tiny spirit and and a barrel of frustrated anger.
Just Results wrote:
I can tell I made you mad.
Is that what you discerned from that? You're such an empath.

And that would fine if what you saw was anger. I don't mind being angry. I don't like grief, shame, fear, confusion, and many other dysphoric states. But anger often feels pretty good.

Nevertheless, what you are experiencing from me in these Internet exchanges with theists like you is closer to contempt than anger. In fact, you have become my poster child for a contemptible Christian. I use you as a bad example from time to time. I couldn't tell if you had seen these :

[1] "With a Christian dentist, you're fine if you wear a cross or give him a "Praise the Lord!" or two. Can you imagine having Just Results as your dentist, and confiding in him that you were a skeptic? He'd drill up through your hard palate."
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE...

[2] "And I don't find the fact that the church hasn't burned a witch in North America for over four centuries too comforting considering that that's exactly how long they have been forbidden from doing so. What do you think the American church would do if it was granted the legal right to begin burning heretics again stating New years Day? What do you think this guy would do: Just Results wrote: "Hell was created for their god Satan and for them to suffer in, and I'm thankful that they will suffer there endlessly for their heinous hatred and ruthless bitter deception." How many of these people do you think there are in 2012?"
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE...

I'm not angry at you. I am contemptuous of the religion that made you into that, and want to stop it.

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#571689 Dec 9, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Having a nice looking workout partner wouldn't hurt either.
That's always motivating.
The gym is a great place to meet the ladies.

If that doesn't work, I can tell you that there are some gorgeous personal trainers at the gym where I work out.

They increase the guys' heartbeat rate.

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#571690 Dec 9, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
100% Natural Born Killer with a High Testosterone count.
You wanna know how my women know I have a high sperm count too?
Thanks Aura, I'll take your word for it.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#571691 Dec 9, 2012
Sharkey wrote:
So many of them he's confused - even his individual personalities are confused! What a hell he must live in.
I'd almost feel sorry for him... Almost.
I know what you mean.

I'm a little ashamed that I don't feel more empathy for these people. They were victims of their church before they became its soldiers, and yes, they live smaller, stunted lives for it.

But I am what I am. I find them mostly disgusting, and for whatever reason, don't feel much need to conceal that.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#571692 Dec 9, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
In the context of a public school setting, you're right.As long as the subject is religion, the teacher MUST keep their own opinions out of it and simply teach the "facts" of said religion.
Those "facts" surrounding religion(S), would be that they are of a mythic nature, and are often 'grown" or accumulated over time from previously existing cultures and religions, embellished upon or maded unique to the adopting culture, and that within those mythic stories, there are some verifiable historical places and events, but that the "supernatural" components equate to fantasy and imagined or created events, and not based in any sort of verifiable reality.

The hallmark of myth.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
(Then when the students walk out, he/she can pray to God while looking at the cross hung over the door.)
:p
Or a stone image of Quetzalcoatl, no?

Perhaps an Asherah tree, yes?
christianity is EVIL

Dartmouth, Canada

#571693 Dec 9, 2012
BadBreathBruce wrote:
<quoted text> Evolution is not scientific, it is a THEORY. And you SURE ARE right there about atheism - it's NOT an academic subject, and therefore ABSOLUTELY CANNOT be in any school curriculum!! With religion, there IS a deity, a book (e.g. the Holy Bible in Christianity), so therefore there is something to teach. Atheism is the ABSENCE of a god and therefore we cannot learn ANYTHING from it. As for evolution, if we as humans are evolving physically and mentally, then WHY are we not EVOLVING MORALLY and ETHICALLY?? Because MORALLY, ETHICALLY, and in the way of our VALUES, we humans are DETERIORATING RAPIDLY. According to EVOLUTION (EVILUTION??), we should have EVOLVED MORALLY throughout those "millions of years" to the point where NOW, WE as HUMANS should be DAMN WELL BE NEAR SAINTLY!! WHY is our morality going the OPPOSITE WAY?? CREATION says the OPPOSITE has been happening all this time i.e. we're getting morally worse. Read your newspaper headlines, or watch the news on TV, on the Net (or hear it on the radio) and you'll see/hear what I mean.
people havent changed much over the centuries ,there was bad and good always,
only now you hear more about BAD more bc the news travels at the speed of light!
and it SELLs better then good news

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#571694 Dec 9, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
100% Natural Born Killer with a High Testosterone count.
You wanna know how my women know I have a high sperm count too?
yh, how?

That's good ya know coz i thought u was a guy too but i got scared when that poster called u a she.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#571695 Dec 9, 2012
Sharkey wrote:
Maybe the debate about "god" will start to wind down when we eventually end up combining the "god" theory with the evolution theory, if we haven't reached that already.
The Christian objection to evolution probably won't die down until their church does - when the Christians have shrunken to an inaudible minority.
Sharkey wrote:
the "Evolution is god" or "God is evolution" theory. If we combine them we won't have to fight over them anymore. All this fighting over whether or not a "god" exist will only result on the self-extinction of our species. When we humans combine the two theories, peace will slowly take place as the fights over our differences will begin to dissolve.
I think that we have already won this fight. The enemy appears to be mortally wounded and actively dying. We won't need to compromise with them. We can build a humanist society embodying humanist principles and values.

They will be free shake their Scary Chicken On A Stick at the moon if that gives them a sense of purpose and moral grounding, but I suspect that they'll be closeted by then by the ridicule and rejection of their beliefs, and so few in number that nobody will hear them any more.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#571696 Dec 9, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion doesn't need to be discussed in public schools at all, no more than sports or movies.

Yeah, and I agree.

You know, at times I think the most difficult endeavor on this thread is to try and keep a discussion going with an individual, and sometimes that works, but only rarely. Even with offering a give and take approach, by suggesting a new direction for the conversation or by tossing a new concept out there in hopes that it will bring forth some different thought or commentary.

This is what Ar Ar had to say in response to the above:
[QUOTE who="RiversideRedneck "]<quoted text>
In the context of a public school setting, you're right.
As long as the subject is religion, the teacher MUST keep their own opinions out of it and simply teach the "facts" of said religion.
(Then when the students walk out, he/she can pray to God while looking at the cross hung over the door.)
:p
It rarely works.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
But a college level course on the history of Christianity might be instructive. The chapters of the text could include the following:
I. Self-Contradictions In The Bible
II. Errors of Scientific Fact In The Bible
III. Anthropology and Biblical Myths.
IV. Crusades And Holy Wars - "Kill Em All, Let God Sort Them Out"
V. The Inquisitions
VI. Witch Burning At Salem
VII. Scapegoating Jews: Christian Antisemitism
VIII. Demeaning Gays: Christian Homophobia
IX. Marginalizing and Dehumanizing skeptics: Christian homophobia
X. Oppressing Women: Christian Misogyny
XI. Sexual Constipation
XII. Christian Misanthropy - Mankind Is A Useless Disappointment
XIII. Christian Antiscientism
Maybe with an opening week long class focusing on the "Mythic Origins of Primitive Mans Religious Beliefs and Practices; Mountain, Sea, and Sky"

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