Prove there's a god.

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#568279
Dec 2, 2012
 
JESUSLIVES wrote:
God doesn't work with evidence
I don't work without it.
JESUSLIVES wrote:
Prove to me how there is no God
That depends what you mean by "God." Do you mean Jehovah-Jesus, or just any old god?
JESUSLIVES wrote:
the proof is the bible
Your bible refutes itself. So does science.
JESUSLIVES wrote:
You need to prove to yourself how I'm wrong and your right.
Done. Long ago.
JESUSLIVES wrote:
There was a man who tried to prove the bible and Christianity wrong, but in the end he ended up getting saved.
And I am a man who, as a Christian, tried to prove the bible true to himself, but wound up an atheist instead.
JESUSLIVES wrote:
You can't prove my God wrong but other "gods" you can.
Au contraire. Your god is one of the ones I can rule out. There needs to be some inconsistency to do that, and there are plenty with your god. Any god with a creation myth can be ruled out, since none of them got it right. Yours can be ruled out several more ways, such as with archeological and historical findings, failed prophecies, unkept promises, scientific errors, and mutually contradictory scriptures.

But don't sweat it. If you are late middle age or older, you might as well ride it to the finish. If you're under thirty-five, you really should reconsider your choices. An authentic existence is probably at stake, not to mention thousands of hours and the bulk of what should be your retirement savings and your children's inheritance.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#568280
Dec 2, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
FYI
Some posters might have read and remember a discussion between Skombolis and me regarding the likelihood of there being intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, part of which turned to a class of microbes called extremophiles - organisms that live in extreme conditions.
These were offered as evidence that life exists wherever it can, and that it is both adaptable and hearty - part of an argument suggesting that life elsewhere in the cosmos was essentially a given.
I just saw this at http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-... :
"Nearly 65 feet beneath the icy surface of a remote Antarctic lake, scientists from NASA, the Desert Research Institute (DRI) in Reno, Nev., the University of Illinois at Chicago, and nine other institutions, have uncovered a community of bacteria existing in one of Earth's darkest, saltiest and coldest habitats.
"A briny liquid, which is approximately six times saltier than seawater, percolates throughout the icy environment where the average temperature is minus 8 degrees Fahrenheit.
"Our knowledge of geochemical and microbial processes in lightless icy environments, especially at subzero temperatures, has been mostly unknown up until now."
"This system is probably the best analog we have for possible ecosystems in the subsurface waters of Saturn's moon Enceladus and Jupiter's moon Europa"
I can poke a few holes in that optimistic bubble, but I'll wait and see if any theists here attempt it first.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#568281
Dec 2, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
"Your position is that there is a god that has an important message for mankind, and somehow, he only reveals it to certain individuals who then write this down. And thousands of years after this initial revelation, we have to rely on copies of copies of translations of copies by anonymous authors with no originals.

"[Regarding] a textual testimony to a miracle such as the loaves and fishes. there's no amount of reports - anecdotal testimonial reports - that could be sufficient to justify believing that this even actually happened as reported. No amount.

"Anything that would qualify as a god would clearly understand
this. And if it wanted to convey this information to people in a way that was believable would not be relying on text to do so.

"This for me is the nail in the coffin for Christianity. The god that Christians believe in is amazingly stupid if it wants to actually achieve its goal of spreading this information to humanity by relying on text, by relying on languages that die off, by relying on anecdotal testimony.

"That's not a pathway to truth. And anything that would qualify as a god should know this, which means either that god doesn't exist, or doesn't care enough about those people who understand the nature of evidence to actually present it." - Matt Dillahunty
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
Pray tell us; what would be the intelligent way of for God to convey information to people?
Imprint it into us at conception or birth.

Or make an annual visit - or live here - and tell us in our native languages.

How would you do it?

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

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#568282
Dec 2, 2012
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
WOW!!! Thank you VERY much!
You're right again, I was just going to say that your belief is very similar to the vedic/sikh scriptures.
The problem is that not everyone has access to our scriptures, as the majority of india is uneducated. They can't even read hindi or punjabi, how can they read sanskriti and gurmukhi? The people in India who are intelligent and greedy, they end up becoming the priets and they pick and choose which parts of the scriptures to emphasise. The parts of our scriptures that expose such people are never revealed to the illiterate public.
This is an example of a verse, the priets don't like to sing;
They wear loin cloths, three and a half yards long, and triple-wound sacred threads. They have rosaries around their necks, and they carry glittering jugs in their hands. O They are not called Saints of the Lord - they are thugs of Benares.||1|| Such 'saints' are not pleasing to me; they eat the trees along with the branches.||1||Pause||. They wash their pots and pans before putting them on the stove, and they wash the wood before lighting it. They dig up the earth and make two fireplaces, but they eat the whole person!||2|| Those sinners continually wander in evil deeds, while they call themselves touch-nothing saints.
They wander around forever and ever in their self-conceit, and all their families are drowned.||3||He is attached to that, to which the Lord has attached him, and he acts accordingly. Says Kabeer, one who meets the True Guru, is not reincarnated again.||4||2||
YW.

Much like the pharisees of the Abrahamics...LOL!
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

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#568283
Dec 2, 2012
 
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I learned that science doesn't respect things such as proof and evidence. So I am curious as to what evidence you are asking for.
"Science is not about proof", and "there is no literal proof in science", are some of the responses I received when I asked some scientific thinkers about the nature of science and reality.
I have also learned that science does not acknowledge "Purpose". Now GOd is assumed to be Intelligent and intelligent agents act with a sense of purpose or function.
Therefore I doubt that you will ever begin to be able to understand God and His Influence if you fail to acknowledge the reality and value of natural purpose.
But not to shy away from this evidence. I am willing to present what I hold to be evidence that SUPPORTS (not but might not necessarily prove) the reality and existence of God. But as we all know, you cant verify the reality of a thing without knowing and testing its attributes.
So to provided evidence of God for you/to you; I should like to know what attribute or quality of God you are expecting to verify.
God has infinite potential, therefore He has infinite attributes. Just pick an attribute or invent one for yourself and lets examine some evidence for it.
What attribute of God would you want evidence for?
which god do you have evidence for?

www.godchecker.com
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

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#568284
Dec 2, 2012
 
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Quite true, it could simply be. And this is the reason for study.
I don't agree with "blind faith," and a great majority of the religious seem to have no issues with such a so-called "faith." Of a surety, the religious hierarchy prefers this. But, unlike these religious, I prefer to study "God," to learn all there is to know of "God." And just like evolution and the "Big Bang," many theories are tossed around in these religions, by the religious hierarchy, that the adherents just accept as factual, without any investigation of their own. I believe such willingness to accept any theories as fact is beyond foolish and unprofitable, regardless of the belief system.
It could simply be, but it could simply not be, just as well. But, without personal investigation, how would we know, for sure?
how do you study something thats IMAGINARY?

Since: Jul 09

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#568285
Dec 2, 2012
 
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
THANK GOD FOR YOU, MAN!!!!
Now that we have that established, I shall like for you to expalin to me, an uneducated scrupulous lunatic:
a) Since all physical things are defined by limits; HOW CAN THE UNIVERSE BE PHYSICAL IF IT IS INFINITE?
b)...
your desire for the mystical turns all that you perceive into the mysterious.

it is so only for you

Since: Jul 10

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#568286
Dec 2, 2012
 
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I learned that science doesn't respect things such as proof and evidence. So I am curious as to what evidence you are asking for.
"Science is not about proof", and "there is no literal proof in science", are some of the responses I received when I asked some scientific thinkers about the nature of science and reality.
I have also learned that science does not acknowledge "Purpose". Now GOd is assumed to be Intelligent and intelligent agents act with a sense of purpose or function.
Therefore I doubt that you will ever begin to be able to understand God and His Influence if you fail to acknowledge the reality and value of natural purpose.
But not to shy away from this evidence. I am willing to present what I hold to be evidence that SUPPORTS (not but might not necessarily prove) the reality and existence of God. But as we all know, you cant verify the reality of a thing without knowing and testing its attributes.
So to provided evidence of God for you/to you; I should like to know what attribute or quality of God you are expecting to verify.
God has infinite potential, therefore He has infinite attributes. Just pick an attribute or invent one for yourself and lets examine some evidence for it.
What attribute of God would you want evidence for?
In my opinion, there is no god or gods, so I can't give an attribute or quality that I would want proved. I was not the one who started the topic, but what I have been looking for is any evidence of a god existing. Much like one might want evidence that a certain planet, which man might one day have theorized but with better telescopes and other techniques he has now proved such an existence.

Once we had some evidence of the existence of a god, then we might define qualities that we would look for in that god, but where do we look when we as yet don't know it exists? I can't accept actions or emotions of humans or natural events as evidence of there being a god, because we have acceptable explanations for all those things on a perfectly natural scientifically proved basis, so that no super entity (assuming a god was super - it would at least have to have some super powers to not be seen yet still act) need exist to explain these things.

If we are to stick to strictly the God of the Bible, Torah, and Quran, which is believed by the various believers to be the same god, then we would seek evidence of things that people look at in their source of knowledge of those gods, which is what man has written down in those books, which so far have proved to be mythical, since nothing in them has proved to be of a supernatural basis, and no evidence has been shown that the accounts were fact rather than fiction.

The problem we have is there are many pieces of information in these various books, but yet not even one minute piece of evidence, that can't be explained without the existence of a god, has yet been found to verify that any of these book were written by their authors as anything other than fiction, myth, allegories, or just ancient legends.

If there were some things that are true, with the advanced technologies we have today, one would reasonably think that, at least something could have been discovered to confirm some passage in those books as having been based on fact. Aside from some perfectly non supernatural events, and places and people that could be the same as written about, but may just be coincidental, man has not found anything.

The only things that science has discovered so far disprove some of the Bible, eg Noah's Flood, recent Creation, virgin births, no evidence or historical writings of the Jews being slaves in Egypt.

It is one thing to prove something did occur, and because of the time period that has passed, that is a big task, but when proof has been found that some claimed event never occurred, then that pretty well proves that particular story is not fact.

Since: Jul 09

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#568287
Dec 2, 2012
 
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
Is the thing which causes something to happen, not responsible for causing that thing to happen?
How is it that you cant deduce that "responsible" may be used to be synonymous with "cause"?
Who is responsible for you lack of intelligence and critical thinking skills?
i am not here to teach you English, boy

your lack of education is your own responsibility
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

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#568288
Dec 2, 2012
 
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>And it's attitudes and behaviors (thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech) like your's and karl44's that help this world spiral into such a negative state. So many people become offended when others don't respect their beliefs and opinions, but are quick to disrespect other's beliefs and opinions. Apparently, those with different beliefs and opinions are only accepted and respected if they're beliefs and opinions coincide with yours. Apparently, you're not much of a fan of "freedom of expression."
As to your comment regarding the universe always existing? Then, why did it take so long for this planet to become adequate for life?
heres the answer to your question

www.google.com

Since: Oct 12

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#568289
Dec 2, 2012
 
christianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
how do you study something thats IMAGINARY?
That's easy, all you have to do is use your IMAGINATION!

If you ever need any help with that, father christmas and I would love to help.

Since: Aug 11

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#568290
Dec 2, 2012
 
After 540,000 + posts nothing has changed. The best answer is still nobody knows if God exists and nobody can prove nor disprove existence.

OCB

“What a GLORIOUS day!!!”

Since: Apr 12

Orlando but NYC born & raised

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#568291
Dec 2, 2012
 
Freebird USA wrote:
After 540,000 + posts nothing has changed. The best answer is still nobody knows if God exists and nobody can prove nor disprove existence.
True enough but some things have been learned.

1. That there are those who claim beyond any doubt that a god exists.

2. That there are those who will use a book of faith - none proven to be the words or thought of any god which might exist- as proof of a god's existence. At best, this is circular logic while at the same time not being logical in any sense.

3. That there are those who will show incredible disregard, contempt and some people even hatred for any and all who don't believe as they do.

4. That there are those who will cherry-pick from and attempt to twist the words found in those books of faith- most notably, the bible.

5. That there are those who refuse to accept the fact that only that which IS can be proven to exist - that one can't prove there isn't a god any more than one can prove there isn't a Santa Claus, a tooth fairy, leprechauns or unicorns- pink or any other color.

6. That there are those who are totally clueless as to the difference between that which is belief/opinion and that which is fact/truth.

Since: Oct 12

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#568293
Dec 2, 2012
 
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>True enough but some things have been learned.
1. That there are those who claim beyond any doubt that a god exists.
2. That there are those who will use a book of faith - none proven to be the words or thought of any god which might exist- as proof of a god's existence. At best, this is circular logic while at the same time not being logical in any sense.
3. That there are those who will show incredible disregard, contempt and some people even hatred for any and all who don't believe as they do.
4. That there are those who will cherry-pick from and attempt to twist the words found in those books of faith- most notably, the bible.
5. That there are those who refuse to accept the fact that only that which IS can be proven to exist - that one can't prove there isn't a god any more than one can prove there isn't a Santa Claus, a tooth fairy, leprechauns or unicorns- pink or any other color.
6. That there are those who are totally clueless as to the difference between that which is belief/opinion and that which is fact/truth.
Which one of these categories do I fit into?

Since: Oct 12

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#568294
Dec 2, 2012
 
chippewa_gal wrote:
Could someone tell me how I can find the Native American forums on Topix?
Type it into google

“Brevity is the soule of wit”

Since: May 09

USA

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#568295
Dec 2, 2012
 
chippewa_gal wrote:
Could someone tell me how I can find the Native American forums on Topix?
You can type in 'Native Americans' under Search the Top Stories Forum. Have fun.

Since: Sep 11

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#568296
Dec 2, 2012
 
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you suggesting that Jesus brought the Kingdom but the Church brought the institution?
Working under the assumption that jesus is a deity, yes. I have no problem with personal faith, or even religion for that matter - but it seems as if religion and political/social interference go hand in hand.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

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#568297
Dec 2, 2012
 
chippewa_gal wrote:
Could someone tell me how I can find the Native American forums on Topix?
http://www.topix.com/who/native-american-indi...

OCB

“What a GLORIOUS day!!!”

Since: Apr 12

Orlando but NYC born & raised

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#568298
Dec 2, 2012
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Which one of these categories do I fit into?
I don't know you well enough yet to say- hopefully, none of them.

Since: Sep 11

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#568299
Dec 2, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
No. I did say "if you were born into a slave owner family...."
<quoted text>
That is subjective & relative.
<quoted text>
Although slaves probably hated it, is say they thought it was normal, yes.
<quoted text>
Moral for them, yes. They don't know any better.
Is is all relative & subjective.
It's not an issue of right & wrong.
So, there is no objective morality, at all? Something can never be truly wrong, it can be right in the appropriate context? Murder can be ok, if society sees it as "normal?"

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