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“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

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#568264
Dec 2, 2012
 
christianity is EVIL wrote:
no one except religious nuts claim this Something from Nothing idiocy.
the universe always existed,no gods needed.
if theres god Who created it?
www.evilbible.com
And it's attitudes and behaviors (thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech) like your's and karl44's that help this world spiral into such a negative state. So many people become offended when others don't respect their beliefs and opinions, but are quick to disrespect other's beliefs and opinions. Apparently, those with different beliefs and opinions are only accepted and respected if they're beliefs and opinions coincide with yours. Apparently, you're not much of a fan of "freedom of expression."

As to your comment regarding the universe always existing? Then, why did it take so long for this planet to become adequate for life?
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish

Kingston, Jamaica

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#568265
Dec 2, 2012
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Because some die before reproducing , the survivors who reproduce are "selected". It's a simple mathematical equation , the environment is hostile and hard to survive in. Those that do are
selected to do so by natural means.
Life came from the inanimate (accoring to some), and inanimate things are demonstrable more durable than living things.

a) Does natural selection "select" the dead ones or the living ones?

b) Were the dead ones "Naturally selected" so that they would become more durable in the state of in-animation?

OR

C) Were the living ones "Naturally Selected" so that they will have a chance to die and return to the state that they were in the first place?

C.i) But then again "c", wouldn't be evolution; it would be REVOLUTION, wouldn't it?

C.ii) I mean, if you select for something that will return to the same state of the not-selected (which it was originally in BTW); then aren't you just going in circles?

C.iii) Where is the progress in that?

C.iv) How have you developed?

C.v) What is the function of diversity?

d) If natural processes have no goal; how do you know that natural selection plays a role?

Since: Jul 09

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#568266
Dec 2, 2012
 
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you realize that that means nothing essentially?
What is responsible for the "selection"?
What phenomena, mechanism or process "Selects"?
Are you sure you are the expert I asked for?
changing circumstance is the cause of the selection, "responsibility" is a moral condition : as in, who is responsible for your lack of education?

do you have an educated question?

HELL:

do you have an honest question?
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish

Kingston, Jamaica

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#568267
Dec 2, 2012
 

Judged:

1

karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
you lack education
read M theory
the universe is infinite,
THANK GOD FOR YOU, MAN!!!!

Now that we have that established, I shall like for you to expalin to me, an uneducated scrupulous lunatic:

a) Since all physical things are defined by limits; HOW CAN THE UNIVERSE BE PHYSICAL IF IT IS INFINITE?

b)...

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

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#568268
Dec 2, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
FYI
Some posters might have read and remember a discussion between Skombolis and me regarding the likelihood of there being intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, part of which turned to a class of microbes called extremophiles - organisms that live in extreme conditions.
These were offered as evidence that life exists wherever it can, and that it is both adaptable and hearty - part of an argument suggesting that life elsewhere in the cosmos was essentially a given.
I just saw this at http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-... :
"Nearly 65 feet beneath the icy surface of a remote Antarctic lake, scientists from NASA, the Desert Research Institute (DRI) in Reno, Nev., the University of Illinois at Chicago, and nine other institutions, have uncovered a community of bacteria existing in one of Earth's darkest, saltiest and coldest habitats.
"A briny liquid, which is approximately six times saltier than seawater, percolates throughout the icy environment where the average temperature is minus 8 degrees Fahrenheit.
"Our knowledge of geochemical and microbial processes in lightless icy environments, especially at subzero temperatures, has been mostly unknown up until now."
"This system is probably the best analog we have for possible ecosystems in the subsurface waters of Saturn's moon Enceladus and Jupiter's moon Europa"
I recall the, at the time, ongoing conversation, you're talking about and had meant to post this and something here in the flesh world commanded my attention and when I returned, the conversation between Skombolis and yourself had pretty much ended, nevertheless, here is another example of a life form, here on earth, that doesn't fit into what we deem the requirements are for life, and further shows we have to allow much wider latitudes in what we can or could expect to find.




<Scientists discover first multicellular life that doesn't need oxygen>

"Oxygen may not be the staple of modern complex life that scientists once thought. Until now, the only life forms known to live exclusively in anoxic conditions were viruses, bacteria and Archaea. But in a new study, scientists have discovered three new multicellular marine species that appear to have never lived in aerobic conditions, and never metabolized oxygen."

Read more at: http://phys.org/news189836027.html#jCp

I'd also like to point out that this opens the door wider and would tend to example that life may have been able to form here on earth in more conditions than we'd ever thought, since oxygen necessity has not become the norm or inviolate rule, even for an oxygen rich planet as earth is.

Abiogenesis is likely the rule - everywhere - and not this singular and "superfreeking" special event that we sometimes think our planet possesses.

I tend to think we're(all life on earth) special in that we have evolved to this point(however primitive or advanced we may be), but I don't think we're the unique and singularly exclusive life form in the entire Universe.

To think we are the only life in the Universe is akin to thinking there are only 300 fish in the entire world, and no other life at all...

Would be putting it mildly.
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish

Kingston, Jamaica

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#568269
Dec 2, 2012
 
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
changing circumstance is the cause of the selection, "responsibility" is a moral condition : as in, who is responsible for your lack of education?
do you have an educated question?
HELL:
do you have an honest question?
Is the thing which causes something to happen, not responsible for causing that thing to happen?

How is it that you cant deduce that "responsible" may be used to be synonymous with "cause"?

Who is responsible for you lack of intelligence and critical thinking skills?

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

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#568270
Dec 2, 2012
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh ok, I think I kinda get that!:-)
What is your belief?
Wow! You asked for it!
"Mineisit" is merely a term which I have personally attributed to an all but undefinable term.(which is the reason the true name of god cannot be uttered by man in the old testament), as it will then become limited and the meaning misconstrued.
This is not to be confused with the "man made deities", and is not even a deity at all. It is the essence of energy that makes the inter-relationship of all infinite and finite existence possible at every plane of existence. i.e. "the all". It is not something to be worshipped or made into a religion, but without it you would cease to exist. Therefore it is central to existence, and all important to us even as individuals.
This is where ignorant man lost it, because in his attempt to provide explanation of his understanding, he speaks of it as a deity due to language constraints, and the message is misconstrued by the listener.
Deity worship is a prime example of this misconception of language in which the original intent to convey actuality is lost. Further elaboration of these misconceptions then turns into misguided cult worship...then on to full religious organization...all of them based on false premise, due to those misconceptions. The further removed from the original truth they are the more elaborate and incorrect they become.
That said, I believe that the life force is intricately involved in EVERY form of what we know as existence, from the subatomic all the way to the major universal projection of that basic form of structure and the combined essence that ties together all that we know as existence.(perhaps best visualised as the interactive wave structure creating the illusion of all matter)("god" is everywhere, and everything)
That IS the essence of everything. The biological vessel in which you dwell is temporary, as is ALL matter structure. The essence, however, is eternal. This essence is transfered to and from ALL matter perpetually, even as you live, moment to moment, even between animate and inanimate objects such as your biological body and a plant, or vice versa.(cup your hands around a plant and talk to it-then examine it under a high power electron microscope-your signature will be found)
When your biological vessel becomes exhausted to the point that it can no longer sustain this exchange relative to it's environment, the process slows and then ends.(which we call death)Even in death, our biological vessel still carries on this exchange as our "matter" changes characteristic to the point that we are totally reconstituted within the environment from which we were created.(the house of many rooms)("god" giveth-and taketh away)
Most everyone thinks in terms of "tangible matter". That is a misconception of actuality, as matter is simply the illusion of the interaction of wave space structure, created by energy (essence). Throughout your lifetime that "essence" is spread to, and received from everywhere you have ever interacted with during your existence.(most people will not fathom this-or religious indoctrination will force them to reject it)
cont...

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

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#568271
Dec 2, 2012
 
cont...

That is why I state that: You always were. You are. AND you always shall be..."Essence" energy (NEVER changes or dies)(matter-being an illusion created by that energy, only changes form)
I believe this WAS known by much more advanced civilizations long before us. It is obvious that an attempt was made to explain this to our ancestors (Sumerian texts-Veda texts-Egyptian writings-Asian writings-etc.) but was not interpreted as intended...Language barriers and just plain ignorance probably the reason.
No heaven-no hell- just what is(the all"). Something we as a people need to understand and accept, so we can progress as a civilization without fettering dogmas and stifling organizations that are keeping us from our proper place in nature, and the universe.
Folks, in general have an affinity to finite(beginning__end). That is the conclusion drawn from our local environment and all that we as individuals experience and learn in life. It is not surprising that we would then equate all that we do NOT understand to this limited equation also...so the infinite concept is naturally rejected because of our perception of reality. It is possible that either or situation is actual, however there is no proof of either. The natural physics of motion in space tends to show how that interaction of motion and matter becomes self perpetuating...which is why personally, I believe that the universe is indeed perpetual in it's own existence. I have gone beyond the restraints of dogma that teaches that everything is alpha-omega.
And YES...the mystery IS awesome.
I have kept this as short as possible...there is much more involved.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

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#568272
Dec 2, 2012
 
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
Which, in and of itself, could simply be a misinterpretation(misunderstan ding) of previous ideology or evidence which preceded the present evolution of the dogma of present.
Quite true, it could simply be. And this is the reason for study.

I don't agree with "blind faith," and a great majority of the religious seem to have no issues with such a so-called "faith." Of a surety, the religious hierarchy prefers this. But, unlike these religious, I prefer to study "God," to learn all there is to know of "God." And just like evolution and the "Big Bang," many theories are tossed around in these religions, by the religious hierarchy, that the adherents just accept as factual, without any investigation of their own. I believe such willingness to accept any theories as fact is beyond foolish and unprofitable, regardless of the belief system.

It could simply be, but it could simply not be, just as well. But, without personal investigation, how would we know, for sure?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#568273
Dec 2, 2012
 
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you realize that that means nothing essentially?
What is responsible for the "selection"?
What phenomena, mechanism or process "Selects"?
Are you sure you are the expert I asked for?
You don't have to be an expert to understand it is called "natural"
selection because , the environment selects the surviving animals who reproduced because they were for whatever reasons able to survive to reproduce.

So the answer is really that the survivor selected itself by beating
the odds that it would be eaten or die before reproducing.

An example is baby crocodiles are eaten by birds ,fish , lizards , snakes and other crocks as well as other mammals , those that evaded and grew into young adults beat the odds and were selected by "natural" means.

So it really is saying something , it's saying natural selection
is the strongest ,smartest , luckiest or for what ever reason are the survivors that carry on the gene pool.

But you know this , so I'm not sure why you are asking Lowell Guy.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

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#568274
Dec 2, 2012
 
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Quite true, it could simply be. And this is the reason for study.
I don't agree with "blind faith," and a great majority of the religious seem to have no issues with such a so-called "faith." Of a surety, the religious hierarchy prefers this. But, unlike these religious, I prefer to study "God," to learn all there is to know of "God." And just like evolution and the "Big Bang," many theories are tossed around in these religions, by the religious hierarchy, that the adherents just accept as factual, without any investigation of their own. I believe such willingness to accept any theories as fact is beyond foolish and unprofitable, regardless of the belief system.
It could simply be, but it could simply not be, just as well. But, without personal investigation, how would we know, for sure?
You can't, until you have irrefutable proof-which no religion to date can live up to.
One can only act on the information one possesses until that information is increased or supplanted with more accurate evidence.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#568275
Dec 2, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I'm not going round and round with this, ad infinitum. The "days" in Genesis weren't 24 hour periods.
Sorry, but you are wrong, so please don't go round and round any more. You would have been burned at the stake for that revisionist version at one time.

The days in Genesis included one morning and one evening each:

Genesis 1:5
God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

Genesis 1:8
God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

Genesis 1:13
And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

Genesis 1:19
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day

Genesis 1:23
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

Genesis 1:31
God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#568276
Dec 2, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
The bible was written over a 1,500 year span by 40 authors and it still holds up to scrutiny.
Not outside of a church it doesn't.

Since: Oct 12

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#568277
Dec 2, 2012
 
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
cont...
That is why I state that: You always were. You are. AND you always shall be..."Essence" energy (NEVER changes or dies)(matter-being an illusion created by that energy, only changes form)
I believe this WAS known by much more advanced civilizations long before us. It is obvious that an attempt was made to explain this to our ancestors (Sumerian texts-Veda texts-Egyptian writings-Asian writings-etc.) but was not interpreted as intended...Language barriers and just plain ignorance probably the reason.
No heaven-no hell- just what is(the all"). Something we as a people need to understand and accept, so we can progress as a civilization without fettering dogmas and stifling organizations that are keeping us from our proper place in nature, and the universe.
Folks, in general have an affinity to finite(beginning__end). That is the conclusion drawn from our local environment and all that we as individuals experience and learn in life. It is not surprising that we would then equate all that we do NOT understand to this limited equation also...so the infinite concept is naturally rejected because of our perception of reality. It is possible that either or situation is actual, however there is no proof of either. The natural physics of motion in space tends to show how that interaction of motion and matter becomes self perpetuating...which is why personally, I believe that the universe is indeed perpetual in it's own existence. I have gone beyond the restraints of dogma that teaches that everything is alpha-omega.
And YES...the mystery IS awesome.
I have kept this as short as possible...there is much more involved.
WOW!!! Thank you VERY much!

You're right again, I was just going to say that your belief is very similar to the vedic/sikh scriptures.

The problem is that not everyone has access to our scriptures, as the majority of india is uneducated. They can't even read hindi or punjabi, how can they read sanskriti and gurmukhi? The people in India who are intelligent and greedy, they end up becoming the priets and they pick and choose which parts of the scriptures to emphasise. The parts of our scriptures that expose such people are never revealed to the illiterate public.

This is an example of a verse, the priets don't like to sing;

They wear loin cloths, three and a half yards long, and triple-wound sacred threads. They have rosaries around their necks, and they carry glittering jugs in their hands. O They are not called Saints of the Lord - they are thugs of Benares.||1|| Such 'saints' are not pleasing to me; they eat the trees along with the branches.||1||Pause||. They wash their pots and pans before putting them on the stove, and they wash the wood before lighting it. They dig up the earth and make two fireplaces, but they eat the whole person!||2|| Those sinners continually wander in evil deeds, while they call themselves touch-nothing saints.
They wander around forever and ever in their self-conceit, and all their families are drowned.||3||He is attached to that, to which the Lord has attached him, and he acts accordingly. Says Kabeer, one who meets the True Guru, is not reincarnated again.||4||2||
dognes

Pittsburgh, PA

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#568278
Dec 2, 2012
 
youtube.com/watch...

Cant Prove theres is a God hes Dead?
Theres is no life living person just a pile of bones buried,I dont worship dead animals or people and this God cant love doesnt exist??

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#568279
Dec 2, 2012
 
JESUSLIVES wrote:
God doesn't work with evidence
I don't work without it.
JESUSLIVES wrote:
Prove to me how there is no God
That depends what you mean by "God." Do you mean Jehovah-Jesus, or just any old god?
JESUSLIVES wrote:
the proof is the bible
Your bible refutes itself. So does science.
JESUSLIVES wrote:
You need to prove to yourself how I'm wrong and your right.
Done. Long ago.
JESUSLIVES wrote:
There was a man who tried to prove the bible and Christianity wrong, but in the end he ended up getting saved.
And I am a man who, as a Christian, tried to prove the bible true to himself, but wound up an atheist instead.
JESUSLIVES wrote:
You can't prove my God wrong but other "gods" you can.
Au contraire. Your god is one of the ones I can rule out. There needs to be some inconsistency to do that, and there are plenty with your god. Any god with a creation myth can be ruled out, since none of them got it right. Yours can be ruled out several more ways, such as with archeological and historical findings, failed prophecies, unkept promises, scientific errors, and mutually contradictory scriptures.

But don't sweat it. If you are late middle age or older, you might as well ride it to the finish. If you're under thirty-five, you really should reconsider your choices. An authentic existence is probably at stake, not to mention thousands of hours and the bulk of what should be your retirement savings and your children's inheritance.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#568280
Dec 2, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
FYI
Some posters might have read and remember a discussion between Skombolis and me regarding the likelihood of there being intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, part of which turned to a class of microbes called extremophiles - organisms that live in extreme conditions.
These were offered as evidence that life exists wherever it can, and that it is both adaptable and hearty - part of an argument suggesting that life elsewhere in the cosmos was essentially a given.
I just saw this at http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-... :
"Nearly 65 feet beneath the icy surface of a remote Antarctic lake, scientists from NASA, the Desert Research Institute (DRI) in Reno, Nev., the University of Illinois at Chicago, and nine other institutions, have uncovered a community of bacteria existing in one of Earth's darkest, saltiest and coldest habitats.
"A briny liquid, which is approximately six times saltier than seawater, percolates throughout the icy environment where the average temperature is minus 8 degrees Fahrenheit.
"Our knowledge of geochemical and microbial processes in lightless icy environments, especially at subzero temperatures, has been mostly unknown up until now."
"This system is probably the best analog we have for possible ecosystems in the subsurface waters of Saturn's moon Enceladus and Jupiter's moon Europa"
I can poke a few holes in that optimistic bubble, but I'll wait and see if any theists here attempt it first.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#568281
Dec 2, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
"Your position is that there is a god that has an important message for mankind, and somehow, he only reveals it to certain individuals who then write this down. And thousands of years after this initial revelation, we have to rely on copies of copies of translations of copies by anonymous authors with no originals.

"[Regarding] a textual testimony to a miracle such as the loaves and fishes. there's no amount of reports - anecdotal testimonial reports - that could be sufficient to justify believing that this even actually happened as reported. No amount.

"Anything that would qualify as a god would clearly understand
this. And if it wanted to convey this information to people in a way that was believable would not be relying on text to do so.

"This for me is the nail in the coffin for Christianity. The god that Christians believe in is amazingly stupid if it wants to actually achieve its goal of spreading this information to humanity by relying on text, by relying on languages that die off, by relying on anecdotal testimony.

"That's not a pathway to truth. And anything that would qualify as a god should know this, which means either that god doesn't exist, or doesn't care enough about those people who understand the nature of evidence to actually present it." - Matt Dillahunty
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
Pray tell us; what would be the intelligent way of for God to convey information to people?
Imprint it into us at conception or birth.

Or make an annual visit - or live here - and tell us in our native languages.

How would you do it?

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

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#568282
Dec 2, 2012
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
WOW!!! Thank you VERY much!
You're right again, I was just going to say that your belief is very similar to the vedic/sikh scriptures.
The problem is that not everyone has access to our scriptures, as the majority of india is uneducated. They can't even read hindi or punjabi, how can they read sanskriti and gurmukhi? The people in India who are intelligent and greedy, they end up becoming the priets and they pick and choose which parts of the scriptures to emphasise. The parts of our scriptures that expose such people are never revealed to the illiterate public.
This is an example of a verse, the priets don't like to sing;
They wear loin cloths, three and a half yards long, and triple-wound sacred threads. They have rosaries around their necks, and they carry glittering jugs in their hands. O They are not called Saints of the Lord - they are thugs of Benares.||1|| Such 'saints' are not pleasing to me; they eat the trees along with the branches.||1||Pause||. They wash their pots and pans before putting them on the stove, and they wash the wood before lighting it. They dig up the earth and make two fireplaces, but they eat the whole person!||2|| Those sinners continually wander in evil deeds, while they call themselves touch-nothing saints.
They wander around forever and ever in their self-conceit, and all their families are drowned.||3||He is attached to that, to which the Lord has attached him, and he acts accordingly. Says Kabeer, one who meets the True Guru, is not reincarnated again.||4||2||
YW.

Much like the pharisees of the Abrahamics...LOL!
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

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#568283
Dec 2, 2012
 
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I learned that science doesn't respect things such as proof and evidence. So I am curious as to what evidence you are asking for.
"Science is not about proof", and "there is no literal proof in science", are some of the responses I received when I asked some scientific thinkers about the nature of science and reality.
I have also learned that science does not acknowledge "Purpose". Now GOd is assumed to be Intelligent and intelligent agents act with a sense of purpose or function.
Therefore I doubt that you will ever begin to be able to understand God and His Influence if you fail to acknowledge the reality and value of natural purpose.
But not to shy away from this evidence. I am willing to present what I hold to be evidence that SUPPORTS (not but might not necessarily prove) the reality and existence of God. But as we all know, you cant verify the reality of a thing without knowing and testing its attributes.
So to provided evidence of God for you/to you; I should like to know what attribute or quality of God you are expecting to verify.
God has infinite potential, therefore He has infinite attributes. Just pick an attribute or invent one for yourself and lets examine some evidence for it.
What attribute of God would you want evidence for?
which god do you have evidence for?

www.godchecker.com

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