Prove there's a god.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567987 Dec 1, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
That's what you should have written several posts ago.
And I've told you already that my conclusion that your god did not use evolution is not just an opinion. First, it never existed, which has been demonstrated to you, even if you refuse to read or assimilate the words.
And even if your god existed, your bible's creation account says that he made the animals in one day, meaning that even whether actual or mythological, that god didn't use evolution. And he fashioned man on another day. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_creation... :
"In Genesis 2:4–24 Yahweh, the personal name of God, forms the first man from dust, places him in the Garden of Eden, and creates the first woman, Eve, from the man's body. The word used when God forms the first man is yatsar, meaning "fashioned", a verb used in contexts such as a potter forming a pot from clay"
That's not evolution, is it? That's creation by magic. That's how I know. And that's why my conclusion is much more than an opinion. It's Christian doctrine.
Are you senile? Or just stuck in a rut? An endless loop of lost thought? hmm

"my conclusion that your god did not use evolution is not just an opinion"

then...

"First, it never existed, which has been demonstrated"

For you to say that God (it) never existed is your opinion. You don't understand that?

As for the "days" in Genesis, I've already told you what you need to know. Your rut won't let you hear it.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567988 Dec 1, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought that I was in a conversation with you. Apparently, the two aren't much different.
Eh? How did you mix up the names "RiversideRedneck" & "It aint necessarily so"?!?

Maybe your gettin a little senile, muchacho.....

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567989 Dec 1, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:

Your rambling is getting tiresome
It aint necessarily so wrote:
My ranting? I answered your question.
lol

um....

I didn't say you were ranting did I?

And no, YOU did not answer my question.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#567990 Dec 1, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
The Christian church, especially the American Christian church. Do you know what that means? It's not a building with a steeple.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
No, I don't. Please elaborate.

Church - a body or organization of religious believers: as
a : the whole body of Christians http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chu...

[QUOTE who="It aint necessarily so"] This is hysterical, especially coming from you. Plus, it is nonresponsive. I didn't criticize the beauty or elegance of the prose. I asked you if you realized that you were opening Pandora's Box by allowing scripture to be interpreted as metaphor.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Typical. Can't understand it, call it hysterical. Laugh it off.
I understood you. You didn't understand me. You didn't even address my words,let alone answer my question.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Metaphors. You say that bible has none & is meant to be read as a literal book.
Not exactly, no, that's not what I said. I said that the accounts given as historical facts are to be interpreted as literal truth. The bible also contains a few similes and parables here and there, such as this:

"for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night." - 1 Thessalonians 5:2

That's a simile, a type of metaphor.

I think that the account of the Good Samaritan at Luke 10:29-37 is presented as a parable, and not as literally true.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Genesis 1:2, it's right in the beginning of the book so I'm sure you've read it. "... And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Water has no face. It's not literal. Next.
Next what? You're arguing with yourself. Why don't you address what I actually posted? I'm guessing you haven't read it.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#567991 Dec 1, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I understood what you supplied, I just disagree with it.
You do know there's a difference, right?
I doubt you understood it, else you wouldn't have mentioned I shouldn't take information from - "blogs".

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#567992 Dec 1, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
The Christian church, especially the American Christian church. Do you know what that means? It's not a building with a steeple.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
No, I don't. Please elaborate.
Church - a body or organization of religious believers: as
a : the whole body of Christians http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chu...

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567993 Dec 1, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
This is hysterical, especially coming from you. Plus, it is nonresponsive. I didn't criticize the beauty or elegance of the prose. I asked you if you realized that you were opening Pandora's Box by allowing scripture to be interpreted as metaphor.

[QUOTE who="It aint necessarily so"]
I understood you. You didn't understand me. You didn't even address my words,let alone answer my question.


What question?
Next what? You're arguing with yourself. Why don't you address what I actually posted? I'm guessing you haven't read it.
I hope you see your reasoning here...

You make comments, then accuse me of not answering a question.

Is that you booooots?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#567994 Dec 1, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
No, I think that teaching an unproven scientific theory is a bad choice.
But you would teach religion no doubt.

Whatever you would do, there are no proven scientific theories. You still don't really have the basics of the philosophy of science down to engage in a discussion of science or teaching it.

Although no theory can be proved, evolutionary theory comes as close as you can. It can't be upturned without discovering something as dramatic as a Matrix reality or Last Thursdayism being the case, or uncovering a trickster god that wanted us to believe that life had evolved.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567995 Dec 1, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
I doubt you understood it, else you wouldn't have mentioned I shouldn't take information from - "blogs".
It was an example.

I did read what you posted. I see it as nonsense, probably just as what you read when I supply something...

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567996 Dec 1, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Church - a body or organization of religious believers: as
a : the whole body of Christians http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chu...
Ok, that's what you mean.

I've always seen "church" as a building used for public Christian worship.

When you say "the church", I'm assuming you mean a particular church, ie; building, place of worship.

Is it "a church" that has treated you wrong?

Or is it "the church" that has?

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#567997 Dec 1, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I get it.
I get that your culture started this whole "Genesis is a plagiary" scandal.
My culture? I think you mean anyone who doesn't believe your deity myth, which is roughly around two thirds of the population of the earth.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I do t understand why, though.....
Because they don't have your theistic belief, that's why.

I also don't think you understand that, while I'm atheist, I share something in common with every other person on the earth that believes in a different deity than you do.

I don't have the theistic belief your deity exists, nor do they.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I have spent ZERO minutes of my life trying to debunk Buddhism.
I don't believe in Buddha.
I never said you did.

You probably would, however, had you been raised in that culture.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
You say you don't believe in God.
No, that's not accurate, I am atheist, I don't have a theistic faith supported belief there are deities.

It bothers you that your personally believed in deity falls into that category.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Why spend so much time trying to disprove Him?
Your deity disproves itself, I just happen to be able to recognize that, and it isn't just me that understands this, billions of others do, too.

Also...

When other religions attempt to have their creation myths and religious myths taught in our schools and attempt to instill that same mythology as a literal and incontrovertible fact, historically, then ensconce that mythology in our commonly shared public govt. buildings and lands, and on our money, etc..., as if it is true beyond doubt based on nothing but belief, I will.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567998 Dec 1, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
But you would teach religion no doubt.


Wrong. You are so wrong. If anything, I'd teach the *possibility* of God, let people decide for themselves. That what faith is.
Whatever you would do, there are no proven scientific theories.
Of what?
You still don't really have the basics of the philosophy of science down to engage in a discussion of science or teaching it.


The fact that people like you still debate it with me is proof otherwise.
Although no theory can be proved, evolutionary theory comes as close as you can.
I disagree. I'd say the theory of gravity is much easier to prove.
It can't be upturned without discovering something as dramatic as a Matrix reality or Last Thursdayism being the case, or uncovering a trickster god that wanted us to believe that life had evolved.
It can be upturned very easily. We do it all the time.

There are plenty of examples of evolutionary flaws.

The idea of natural selection sounds great if you're talking about a deer. A deer that can sense danger and move more nimbly & quickly than most if its predators. And do it consistently, makes perfect sense, right? To have it evolve & adapt to better suit its life & to live longer.

What about a bird? Why would a creature begin to evolve a wing? A wing stub wouldn't make a bird better adapted to its environment. The wing stub would be much too small for it to fly. Why would a bird evolve a completely useless "winglet"?

A bird with even a half size wing is at a disadvantage to its environment. Why would a bird continue evolving a useless "wing" for millions of years?

Answer: Accirding to natural selection, it wouldn't.

If evolution happened the way Darwin first suggested, the earth would have no birds.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#567999 Dec 1, 2012
United in faith wrote:
Our founding fathers fled religious persecution and created a new world (America) where people are free to EXERCISE their faith without government meddling.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
You're confused. The Pilgrims, who fled England to escape religious persecution in the early seventeenth century, were not the Founders, who lived in the late eighteenth.
United in faith wrote:
and the pilgrams were here before the founding fathers!
Correct. I think you have it now.
United in faith wrote:
fact still remains the EARLY ones came here to get away from religious persecution.
Yes, but that wasn't your only "fact." Your "fact" that the "founding fathers fled religious persecution" doesn't still remain. You seem to have dropped it.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#568000 Dec 1, 2012
United in faith wrote:
Sarah Palin has the same right to her voice as you have to yours.
Yes, I know. Did you have another point?
United in faith wrote:
OH HORSEFEATHERS! how has religion ever harmed you? unless you were hogtied and physcially dragged to church every week, or unless someone beat you over the head with a bible literally, you were NEVER harmed by religion.
I'm tired of answering that question for Christians. Besides, my objection to Christianity is not based on the harm it did me, which is relatively little.
United in faith wrote:
thats a very moeronic thing to say.
Well stated. This guy likely agrees: http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/n/U/mor...

Incidentally, it didn't take you long to dive into the gutter, did it. You have now opened the door to personal comments. Christian chararcter. Meh.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#568001 Dec 1, 2012
United in faith wrote:
and i can assure you it has not hurt me, it has benefited me.
And I can assure you that it has. I can tell from your posting.
United in faith wrote:
every time there is a major disaster, it is ALWAYS the church who is the first on the scene to FEED and CLOTHE and to give medical attention to. ALWAYS.
I don't know about that, but it was FEMA that provided the bulk of the disaster relief after Hurricane Sandy. Just ask the New Jersey governor, who praised the secular organization - FEMA - not the church:

"One of Mitt Romney’s biggest supporters, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, had nothing but praise for President Barack Obama today, as his state prepares to rebuild from the damage caused by Hurricane Sandy.

“I have to say, the administration, the president himself, and FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate have been outstanding with us so far,” Christie said on Good Morning America.“We have a great partnership with them." http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/...
United in faith wrote:
It is the church who reaches out to the homeless in every community. It is the church who provides safe havens for the weary and the abused. It is the church who builds orphanages and homes and such all around the world in desolant places. It is the church who cares for the elderly in nursing homes and hospitals. and freely gives monies to help where they can. so to say religion harms you is the biggest lie you could tell.
First, how would any of those things contradict the assertion that the church does harm? The mafia did some charitable work, too.

Second, I seriously doubt that more than a few percent of untaxed church receipts go past the church's bank accounts or the priests' pockets. Personally, I'd like to see more transparency and oversight in that department.

I trust secular charities more, and don't think that we need your church for anything.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#568002 Dec 1, 2012
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
If man is the product of evolution and man has formed conceptions of deities; isnt it evolution that is driving him to that realization?
Isnt it evolution that has driven man towards the acknowledgement of the presence of (a)Deity?
Furthermore, how is it that you are still looking for explanations of gravity that is experienced daily; yet you are willing to assert the fact of evolution whilst you have nothing but data that is only visually appealing.
How can you assert that it is so? If facts have the probability of being correct; then shouldn't they also have the probability of being incorrect?
All you have is things that look like other things: genes that resemble other genes; bones that resemble human/animal bones etc. But common structures suggest formation under common influences, not necessarily development from common ancestry.
How do you justify your claim of ToE as fact or whatever you claim they are?
Well we are open to listen to your alternate theory, but please try to stick to plausibility and leave out stupid stuff.

We are all ears... splain away.....
It better not start off "in the beginning" ....just saying?

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#568003 Dec 1, 2012
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
"cause for modification" eh?
I cant wait till the guys in my forum get a copy of your post. LOL
Why are guys in your forum are like stupid or something?

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#568004 Dec 1, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did God make us?
The answer is in the Bible.
How did God make us?
The answer is NOT in the Bible.

Absolutely not , why was never even addressed.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#568005 Dec 1, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:

The public schools don't exist to assist your churches.
United in faith wrote:
they use to hold CHURCH in the nations capital building in the early days of America!
http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles...
That's fascinating. Did you know that the capital of Brunei is Bandar Seri Begawan?

BTW, regarding your link, David Barton, it's author, is rejected by legitimate historians for some time, but even more so since he has been exposed as a fraud and had one of his books was recalled by its publisher:

[1] "Texas Education "Expert" Barton's Book Recalled"
http://www.examiner.com/article/texas-educati...

"The most recent book by David Barton, a leading history consultant for the controversial Texas State Board of Education, was recalled by its publisher for Friday due to matters of fact which were not supported at all. Barton's book The Jefferson Lies: Exposing the Myths You've Always Believed About Thomas Jefferson, was itself found to be guilty of "factual errors" and "historical misinterpretations" by publisher Thomas Nelson. The book itself had sold only 20,000 copies, but its cancellation is a significant embarrassment for one of the most influential writers in Christian publishing."

[2] "Faux historian David Barton exposed as a fraud"
http://www.examiner.com/article/faux-historia...

"Faux historian and Christian extremist David Barton has been exposed as a fraud and a con man pushing a false narrative of American history to gullible Christians willing to sacrifice truth for a false history that promotes Christianity at the expense of historical reality. Christian publisher Thomas Nelson is ending the publication and distribution of Barton’s recent bestseller,“The Jefferson Lies: Exposing the Myths You've Always Believed About Thomas Jefferson.” The book is being pulled because of gross historical inaccuracies and outright fabrications.

"While reasonable, educated people have long known that Barton was a charlatan and a con man preaching a false history to sell books and promote Christian revisionist propaganda, the fact that Barton’s Christian publisher, at the urging of other Christian scholars, have decided to pull the book indicates that Barton is losing credibility within the community of Christian academics."

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#568006 Dec 1, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
It was an example.
No, you said I shouldn't take information from blogs. I clearly didn't.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I did read what you posted. I see it as nonsense, probably just as what you read when I supply something...
You rarely supply anything but opinion. Many times I see that as nonsense, especially when you don't support that opinion you've formed by supplying a relevant basis for coming to that opinion.

When you supply the sort of opinion that is supported by fact and other verifiable or relevant information, it is an - informed opinion.

A wild claim that you assert, which is what you often do, that you then try to equate with - an informed opinion - is a error or failing on your part.

Do you understand the difference?

When you do supply something other than pure opinion, I read the information supplied and evaluate it accordingly, based on supporting evidence and information.

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