Prove there's a god.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#567498 Nov 30, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw the talk he did on youtube about it. He has a good basis.
Currently, morality is extremely flexible, for better or worse. I'm not sure if accurately mapping a moral landscape is possible, though I am sure that improvements can be made to existing conventions using objective preferential judgements as a guide. If we can say, for sure, that THIS is better than THAT, we can make improvements. His basis gives us a bottom, that he calls "the worst possibly misery for everyone", but I don't think he has a clear opposite that represents the peak. I guess by comparing everything to the bottom, measurement is possible.
It's a short book, right? I might actually read it.
It is a short book. I have the Audible version and it's only 7 hours, and Harris is the reader. I'm on the second chapter so far, and his approach seems to be, as you said, that while we don't have a guide that will address every single possible situation, we can make broad statements about what is moral and what isn't, and work from there. I think alot of people tend to toss out the baby with the bathwater if something isn't 100% complete. We see that all the time on Topix: "Science doesn't know everything? Then it must be wrong" or "Does the Bible support slavery? Then the entire book is wholly evil", etc.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567499 Nov 30, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
ahhhh.... OK in that sense, I guess it could be considered a tradition.
Slaves were treated terribly. I can't fathom the thought of owning a human being.
I'm glad that God wanted slaves treated better.
Uh, RR, you believe that your deity is the only "perfect moral being" in the universe, right?

Treating slaves better is not moral. Not having slaves is moral. This is a failure of your mythology - your deity is not depicted as the only "perfect moral being."

He's depicted as a big, angry and jealous human - because the people who wrote the Bible were writing their version of God. It's all fiction, baby. Hence, crappy morality.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567500 Nov 30, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You ARE Christian!
;)
shhhhhh!!!

<whisper>

it's the camouflage! i'm undercover.

OCB

“What a GLORIOUS day!!!”

Since: Apr 12

Orlando but NYC born & raised

#567501 Nov 30, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Was slavery ever considered a tradition? Certainly it was a right, but a tradition?
Segregation unfortunately still happens. In hiring for a job, renting houses or apartments, etc. the strange thing to me is that back when slaves were legal & blacks were "segregated", dumb ass white slave owners had black slaves in their homes. I guess it was segregation unless they didn't want it. Makes no sense to me.
I do recognize America's flaws. I've pointed out a few of them. It seems to me that all you do is point out our flaws and not anything good....
No- I've pointed out good things as well- such as our freedom of religion which also includes freedom FROM religion.

I've pointed out that we enjoy rights and privileges unique to our nation and that are so much a part of our nation, we take those rights and privileges often for granted- rights and privileges denied so many others in so many other nations.

But at the same time, I'm not going to turn a blind eye to what is wrong with this nation either.

Just like YOU shouldn't turn a blind eye to it any more than you should turn a blind eye to what is wrong in the bible.

The bitter with the sweet, RR- the bitter with the sweet......

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#567502 Nov 30, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Limitations?
You mean like flying or lazer vision?
Yes, just like those.

<pats RR on the head, makes sure his whiskey is full and his beer is waiting on the table.>

OCB

“What a GLORIOUS day!!!”

Since: Apr 12

Orlando but NYC born & raised

#567503 Nov 30, 2012
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know for sure about health insurers, but life insurance premiums are exceedingly much higher for smokers than non-smokers. I sued to sell insurance along with loans that I administered in the bank. Been a while since I have seen the tables, and they don't affect me as I am not a smoker.
I realize and sympathize with someone who took up smoking in past years before smoking became as popular as a no-no that is has been in more recent years, but it rather boggles my mind that anyone who has any form of contact with the outside world, and general information today, would ever smoke.
I guess my problem is not realizing that all minds are fully functional. Any possible sarcasm or criticism that might be detected in the statement is intentional.:)
I believe some health insurers rate up those who smoke, but I'm not 100% sure about that and if that is the case, it doesn't apply to group coverage.

Believe it or not, while millions have quit smoking, here in the USA, I see young people and teenagers lighting up every single day.

When I started as a teenager, there were even still cigarette commercials and you could smoke ANYWHERE- and I DO mean ANYWHERE.

Restaurants, theaters, offices, elevators, public rest rooms, stores, banks- even DOCTOR'S offices.

I would like to think that if I was a teenager today, I wouldn't touch cigarettes with a 10 foot pole, but no way of knowing if I would or not......all I know is when I started, smoking was still very much in vogue and was the thing to do.

But despite it not being at ALL the thing to do today, for every few people who quit, someone else takes up the habit.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#567504 Nov 30, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
ugh... Here we go again. Please tell me where the Bible says that slavery is good, ie; opposite of evil.
The Bible gives instructions on how to treat slaves, ergo, it endorses slavery. I mean, really, is that difficult to figure out? Furthermore, it says you can physically abuse a slave because they are property, so there is that too.

Consider the lost opportunity Yahweh had with the authors of the Hebrew Bible. Slavery was commonplace in that culture. Why couldn't God simply state "slavery is an abomination". I mean, God managed to condemn eating shrimp as an abomination. Was that a more pressing issue? Likewise, God could have said "women and men are equal, and neither shall have authority over the other". But no, women, like slaves, were left as property too. Not even allowed to have leadership roles.

Few members of the Abrahamic religions in the Western world would now argue that slavery is socially acceptable. So, does God adapt his moral code to fit contemporary human custom? Or is religion a superstitious relic that humans are gradually outgrowing?

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#567505 Nov 30, 2012
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>What a load of crap! I remember you gloating that you and your "partner" were looking forward to getting lucky at the bars in Southeast Asia where you were going to visit on vacation.
You remember no such thing. I've never even been to Southeast Asia.
Please stop trying to pretend that you are anything but the typical, promiscuous gay man.
Please stop being such a miserable hag.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567506 Nov 30, 2012
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>What do I mean? That while some parts of the bible could be perceived as good, other parts can rightly be perceived as bad.
While some of what the USA does can rightly be perceived as good, other things done by the USA can rightly be perceived as bad.
Got it now? Good=sweet and bad=bitter.
And along with the sweet, comes the bitter.
Lord have mercy....

You said: "Why are you a person of such extremes that doesn't want to accept that with the sweet, also comes the bitter?"

What do you mean *about me*?

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#567507 Nov 30, 2012
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
christian women are "helpmates" to their men.
if they had either intellect, or self respect; they would not be christian
You do have to wonder what Christian women think when they read, say, passages from Saul/Paul admonishing churches to keep women out of leadership roles, and blaming them for the downfall of all humankind. Never mind the even worse misogyny in the Hebrew Bible.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567508 Nov 30, 2012
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>Oh please!! You don't think there were at least some slave owners who treated their slaves "better" than others? There were. Let's hope our FOUNDING FATHERS were among those who treated slaves "better".
The POINT is why condone or encourage slavery at ALL?
Nowadays there's no reason to. But when the bible was written, slavery was a worldwide NORMAL & LEGAL thing.

I'm not justifying slavery at all, just saying that you can't look at what they wrote and compare to todays standards of slavery.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567509 Nov 30, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Thank you, sir!
<courtesies>
<quoted text>
<slap!>
Ok, bitch, off the ground. Get my damn whiskey!
Careful...

Papa taught me that if a woman is man enough to hit, she's man enough to get hit.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567510 Nov 30, 2012
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>Oh crap. Where does the bible say you can or should own a car? Or a TV? Or a computer? Or a phone? Etc., etc., etc.?
The POINT is that our MAN MADE governing laws trump ANYTHING written in the bible.
The POINT is not whether or not the BIBLE says you can or should own a slave- though it DOES say that- the point is that our MAN MADE governing laws say you can NOT.
The bible? A TV? wha....?

The point I'm making is that the bible does NOT say that it's ok to own slaves.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#567511 Nov 30, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Not my point. You used the word "promiscuous" in a derogatory fashion after displaying "promiscuous" traits. I don't care if you are or not.
Yeah, and we've seen time and again those type of people who keep harping on promiscuity, then do it themselves. It must really suck to be so dishonest with yourself.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567512 Nov 30, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh, RR, you believe that your deity is the only "perfect moral being" in the universe, right?
Treating slaves better is not moral. Not having slaves is moral. This is a failure of your mythology - your deity is not depicted as the only "perfect moral being."
He's depicted as a big, angry and jealous human - because the people who wrote the Bible were writing their version of God. It's all fiction, baby. Hence, crappy morality.
"Treating slaves better is not moral. Not having slaves is moral."

I agree with that, but that's a relative opinion, just like the "nakedness" argument you were having yesterday...

“O'si yo!”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#567513 Nov 30, 2012
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>Gee- I only pointed it out to you several times........okay- whatever- thanks for the apology.
In the future, perhaps you should try reading through entire posts before falsely accusing people of lying about what was written and which you would have seen had you actually read the ENTIRE post.
well i sure didn't see it, but you are right i will double ck myself in the future. However her 'creep' next to all your MANY names still made her post much more civil than yours was.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567514 Nov 30, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, just like those.
<pats RR on the head, makes sure his whiskey is full and his beer is waiting on the table.>
You mean my limitations on whiskey?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#567515 Nov 30, 2012
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>No- I've pointed out good things as well- such as our freedom of religion which also includes freedom FROM religion.
I've pointed out that we enjoy rights and privileges unique to our nation and that are so much a part of our nation, we take those rights and privileges often for granted- rights and privileges denied so many others in so many other nations.
But at the same time, I'm not going to turn a blind eye to what is wrong with this nation either.
Just like YOU shouldn't turn a blind eye to it any more than you should turn a blind eye to what is wrong in the bible.
The bitter with the sweet, RR- the bitter with the sweet......
In our few months of debating, you've gotten to "know" me a little bit.

What do you think I turn a blind eye to from the bible?

“O'si yo!”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#567516 Nov 30, 2012
justhuman99 wrote:
you tube? really? LOL

“O'si yo!”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#567517 Nov 30, 2012
justhuman99 wrote:
http://youtu.be/GfmERwdaT5w
this will help you a lot to know what you do not know about God.
everything you need to know about God is found in HIS word, not on you tube.

read the bible.
thats the only place you will learn what you need to know about God.

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