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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#566143
Nov 27, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Building torture pits is not love. Keeping souls alive after death in order to make them suffer and keep them suffering is not love.
United in faith wrote:
you are not thinking right. would you let mass murderers, rapists, theives, and child molestors come live in your home with you? If they spit at you, blasphemed your name and generousity, if they were never thankful to you, if they didn't obey you in anything? OF COURSE YOU WOULDN'T. so why do you think God should allow such people to live in heaven with Him for eternity?
Why do you think that keeping a soul conscious forever just to suffer rather than letting it fade to unconsciousness is love? Who benefits from that?
United in faith wrote:
God created hell for the devil and his followers.
Yet man is sent there. Are you suggesting that your god was unaware of what he would use his hell for when he created it?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#566144
Nov 27, 2012
 
United in faith wrote:
and God sent His Son into this sinful world to take YOUR sins upon His perfect back and be tortured and suffer so you might have eternal life with God.
How does torture keep re-entering in a discussion of perfect love? I am concerned about the model of love offered in Christianity.

And I am not responsible for any sin nature that I might have been created with. Obviously, according to the religion, man is not capable of avoiding sin if every one of us has done it beginning with the first pair.

Should I blame my dog for its shoe chewing nature that it was born with? Should I keep it alive to torture for eternity just for doing what dogs have always done and are born wanting to do? How about if I had designed and built the dog?

How about a crying baby. Should I command the baby to never cry, and torture it when it fails?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#566145
Nov 27, 2012
 
United in faith wrote:
and God loves every person equally.
Not the ones he gave reason to. If your god exists, we are doomed, since he apparently went out of his way to trap such reasonable people.

He wrote a book full of errors and self-contradiction to make reasonable people believe that it is a forgery.

He loaded the earth with fossils stratified into a geological column, fused human chromosome 2 to make it look like man evolved from brachiating apes,and carefully designed ERV's, proteins, and anatomic structures as nesting hierarchies all to trip up the reasonable people that could understand what those findings imply.
United in faith wrote:
and He gives you 'TIME' and oppertunity to come that realization.
If your god exists, he made coming to that realization impossible for me. The only way I could join you is to deny the reason I was born with.

Galileo spoke for me when he said,“I do not think it is necessary to believe that the same God who has given us our senses, reason, and intelligence wished us to abandon their use, giving us by some other means the information that we could gain through them”

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#566146
Nov 27, 2012
 
United in faith wrote:
THAT IS LOVE........love like you have ever known, nor will ever know. God is good. He loves you even while you are a sinner.
It's indistinguishable from indifference and neglect. Consider the Garden, the tree and the snake. Creating a situation like that is called depraved indifference in American law:

"To constitute depraved indifference, the defendant's conduct must be 'so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime. Depraved indifference focuses on the risk created by the defendant’s conduct, not the injuries actually resulting." http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/depraved-ind...

If you leave your keys in the ignition of your car with it running, the front door open, a case of beer in the front seat, even if you leave a note of warning on the windshield to not steal it, then you can't successfully claim that the drunk driving death caused by the teen who stole it was not your fault. It is if the outcome is foreseeable. Did your god not know how that Garden scene would turn out?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#566147
Nov 27, 2012
 
Tide with Beach wrote:
If a child is raised in a culture where nudity in public is normal, it will not harm them at all.
Most people in history lived in one room homes - caves, igloos, teepees, whatever - and saw it all without harm. Children slept with parents who made love while they were under the same skins with them. They also saw people poop, pee, menstruate, give birth and die. No problem.
Tide with Beach wrote:
It's only in societies like ours where public nudity could cause psychological damage to a child. It's only after they have been instilled with subjective cultural values that nudity becomes offensive.
“Religion. It’s given hope in a world torn apart by religion.”– Jon Stewart

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#566148
Nov 27, 2012
 
Boooots wrote:
I was taught as a very young child to turn the other cheek, so when I was bullied I just let them do it.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
You were raised to be a sissy?
No, he was raised to be a Christian doormat. Christian ethics teach submission to Massah. That's why you are admonished to take whatever is dished out to you, and be grateful for the abuse when you do.

The Sermon on the Mount is a set of instructions from the ruling class to the peasant class on how to think and behave as they are being exploited and discriminated against.

Blessed, supposedly, are the poor in spirit, those who mourn, the meek, those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, the merciful, the pure in heart and the peacemakers. I find nothing wise or comforting in admonitions to be poor of spirit or meek. Be robust of spirit and as assertive as the situation requires.

Who wants you to accept being dispirited, tolerating grief, not asserting yourself, honest to them, forgiving of them and pacifistic with them? Who benefits if, when I punch you, you don't retaliate, defend yourself or even walk away? Cui bono?

The bosses don't want you seeking justice. You are to tolerate injustice, and be merciful to them, to forgive and forget. Put that cheek right out there again, will ya? No, not quite like that - turn it a little more. Great. Thanks.[Whack!]

Christianity promises to make it up to you in the afterlife. By tolerating all of this earthly abuse, you believe that you're earning brownie points to be redeemed postmortem, when all accounts will be settled, and you will be a king in a mansion! The promise is that if you put up with it here, in Heaven, at last, you won’t be a loser.

Meh.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

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#566149
Nov 27, 2012
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Most people in history lived in one room homes - caves, igloos, teepees, whatever - and saw it all without harm. Children slept with parents who made love while they were under the same skins with them. They also saw people poop, pee, menstruate, give birth and die. No problem.
<quoted text>
“Religion. It’s given hope in a world torn apart by religion.”– Jon Stewart
Great quote! Jon Stewart is a legend

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

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#566150
Nov 27, 2012
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Yet man is sent there. Are you suggesting that your god was unaware of what he would use his hell for when he created it?
Since when?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#566151
Nov 27, 2012
 

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KittenKoder wrote:
Did you know that the primary reason the teenage brain is in chaos is due to a restructuring of neurons? That rebellion people see and stereotype teenagers with is actually their brain fighting itself. The outward projection of that battle is to defy authority. This change in the neural pathways doesn't stop until the early 20's. It's not about hormones at all, the hormones are just another symptom of the same event. Now, how many parents actually know this?
I have a different read on what that rebellion is all about. I think it's one of three instincts that conspire to launch new households.

At a certain age young people begin experiencing lust, which is necessary to get boys and girls together. Before the lust, it's all about cooties.

Girls also develop a nesting and mothering instinct, and want a baby. Without that, why would you have one except by accident?

And finally, children of both genders become restless and argumentative, which promotes their leaving home.

Together, these create new families, a gift of evolution.

What do you think?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#566153
Nov 27, 2012
 

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Aura Mytha wrote:
As a fellow American you are my brother. Maybe the redheaded stepbrother but brother...lol But as a fellow American I would have your back covered and walk point for you.
I used to feel that way, too, but not so much any more. The division along political and religious lines trumps being a fellow American. I happen to be politically liberal and an atheist. I wouldn't expect American Christians or conservatives to stand by me.

Am I wrong? How can we know? I doubt that asking conservatives or Christians would help. I'm pretty sure that I know what their answer has to be, however they actually feel.

Christians and conservatives have been taking shots at both groups, including some of the most prominent of them saying the most outrageous things about us with almost no blow back. Romney recently made an outrageous comment about Obama voters and gift, and look at the hullabaloo. And when Don Imus said something about nappy-headed hos, there was a bruhahah.

But neither of these comments raised much of ruckus:

“No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.”– George H. W. Bush

"Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America. They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America's self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant." - Ann Coulter

Should I expect support from such people, or the tens of millions that are happy enough with them to elect one of them to the White House and put eight books by the other on best seller lists?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#566154
Nov 27, 2012
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
Yet man is sent there. Are you suggesting that your god was unaware of what he would use his hell for when he created it?
Lil Ticked wrote:
Since when?
Since when what? The sent to hell part, the you suggesting something part, the being unaware part, the using hell part, the creating hell part, or some other part?

Since: Nov 12

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#566155
Nov 27, 2012
 
Just look around you...
feces for jesus

East Meadow, NY

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#566156
Nov 27, 2012
 

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boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
I tend to agree with you, as when the issue first came to my attention on here a day or two ago, I looked it up and found the same information that you posted. The only possibility that might lead others to believe that hell didn't come around until a few years ago, is there is some discussion about what the meanings of those words are, as they have various meanings in their original language.
Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus are not equal to the christian lie of hell. If you wanted to understand where the word Hel/hell comes from and get a better understanding of it, check the etymology.

The original (and current) meaning of Hel is that it is one of the nine worlds of Yggdrassil. It is a realm of COLDNESS and stillness and has nothing to do with eternal damnation and torture, or burning. It is unfortunate that the beliefs and traditions of those we call vikings have been distorted so much.
blundunt

Midlothian, IL

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#566157
Nov 27, 2012
 

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People die. Why? Well... then what? Nothing? How? Why did God make a world where everything in it DIES? There is good and there is evil. Up and down In and out Rich and poor Free and Slave right and wrong Black and white right and left Soft and hard wet and dry Heaven and Hell?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#566158
Nov 27, 2012
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I used to feel that way, too, but not so much any more. The division along political and religious lines trumps being a fellow American. I happen to be politically liberal and an atheist. I wouldn't expect American Christians or conservatives to stand by me.
Am I wrong? How can we know? I doubt that asking conservatives or Christians would help. I'm pretty sure that I know what their answer has to be, however they actually feel.
Christians and conservatives have been taking shots at both groups, including some of the most prominent of them saying the most outrageous things about us with almost no blow back. Romney recently made an outrageous comment about Obama voters and gift, and look at the hullabaloo. And when Don Imus said something about nappy-headed hos, there was a bruhahah.
But neither of these comments raised much of ruckus:
“No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.”– George H. W. Bush
"Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America. They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America's self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant." - Ann Coulter
Should I expect support from such people, or the tens of millions that are happy enough with them to elect one of them to the White House and put eight books by the other on best seller lists?
You are making two mistakes here Ians, and you will have to agree with me that your assessment is unfair.

First you are putting and comparing politicians in with the Americans I was referring to ,which in a humanist view are still people (even if they are the lowest order of them).

Secondly you are believing the politicians failed attempts at far right wing rhetoric and propaganda to apply and mean anything to us people in the real world.

It's true the GOP has moved farther right wing
than is desired and some of the politicians have moved close to fascism , but to me they even though are like my embarrassing drunken brother. In fact are still my brother , and are on the same team , so their stupidity is overlooked in that respect.

I see it differently I guess , and the attitude that other Americans can't be on the same team is exactly the problem both candidates have spoken of. The problem of reaching across the isles beyond party lines and actually doing something that has meaning is a paramount concern and is the quality of a statesman.

Since: Jul 12

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#566160
Nov 27, 2012
 
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. yes, I will ..
Oh us, duh... According to Mr1000Socjs, you ARE him...

Apologetics, I mean apologies.

Since: Jul 12

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#566162
Nov 27, 2012
 
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
He can borrow my pants anytime he wants to. A little secret RR. He's my friend. "What?", you may ask. A homosexual and a heterosexual being friends? Should we call the thought police? A priest? A tailor?
Call someone who cares.

Here's a quarter :)

Since: Jul 12

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#566163
Nov 27, 2012
 
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
You callin' me fat?
LMAO!

um no, straight.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#566164
Nov 27, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I used to feel that way, too, but not so much any more. The division along political and religious lines trumps being a fellow American. I happen to be politically liberal and an atheist. I wouldn't expect American Christians or conservatives to stand by me.

Am I wrong? How can we know? I doubt that asking conservatives or Christians would help. I'm pretty sure that I know what their answer has to be, however they actually feel.

Christians and conservatives have been taking shots at both groups, including some of the most prominent of them saying the most outrageous things about us with almost no blow back. Romney recently made an outrageous comment about Obama voters and gift, and look at the hullabaloo. And when Don Imus said something about nappy-headed hos, there was a bruhahah.

But neither of these comments raised much of ruckus:

“No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.”– George H. W. Bush

"Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America. They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America's self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant." - Ann Coulter

Should I expect support from such people, or the tens of millions that are happy enough with them to elect one of them to the White House and put eight books by the other on best seller lists?
Here's a little refreshing honesty I just read on another thread
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... :

Adam wrote in response to something vile from Christian derek4: "lol. Brotherly love on display."

derek4 replied: "I'm not brothers with the godless."

That's what I thought, and why I'm pretty sure that the Christians would not stand beside a "fellow American" who is more fully known as a vile, godless abomination in the eyes of an infinitely good and loving god that judges him fit for eternal torment just because he was born in Alabama and I was born in California.

Who would risk his life for - or even take the part of - somebody that he has been conditioned to think of in such terms? Once you understand this, doesn't the feeling tend to become mutual?

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#566165
Nov 27, 2012
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I used to feel that way, too, but not so much any more. The division along political and religious lines trumps being a fellow American. I happen to be politically liberal and an atheist. I wouldn't expect American Christians or conservatives to stand by me.
Am I wrong? How can we know? I doubt that asking conservatives or Christians would help. I'm pretty sure that I know what their answer has to be, however they actually feel.
Christians and conservatives have been taking shots at both groups, including some of the most prominent of them saying the most outrageous things about us with almost no blow back. Romney recently made an outrageous comment about Obama voters and gift, and look at the hullabaloo. And when Don Imus said something about nappy-headed hos, there was a bruhahah.
But neither of these comments raised much of ruckus:
“No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.”– George H. W. Bush
"Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America. They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America's self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant." - Ann Coulter
Should I expect support from such people, or the tens of millions that are happy enough with them to elect one of them to the White House and put eight books by the other on best seller lists?
Your doubts will be quickly confirmed if you visit the "Bush Is a Hero" thread.

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