Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#566100 Nov 26, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I am on the side of working to correct a flaw in our society, all of them, and bullying is one, so is the correlation to causation fallacy you are using.
Kitten, can you accept that you are probably coming at this from being in a profession that works in the field of expertise that you are talking about, while I am just a person who does not believe in a god, does not like bullying, does not think parents should teach their kids to hit bullies, because violence doesn't cure violence?

My first wife's major at university to get her science degree, I think, was child and family studies, or something along that line, but mine wasn't, though my hobby since soon after graduating was to do with psychology, and I went through meany years of wanting to read about the current psychology of the times.

However, in replying to your comment in the previous to this post, about a professional without children often knows more about kids than do parents, yes that is true, and that is what my wife and I thought, and we had great plans for how we were going to raise our kids differently than we had been raised based on popular ideas of our time, but when the children came, reality took over and some of the ideals and plans got lost.

It is one thing to know the hows and whys, but to actually be with your own child 24/7, dealing with their various problems on a daily basis, plus having your own personal issues to deal with too, you often find out that theory and fact don't always mesh.

Disclaimer: That fact and theory comment does not apply when we are talking evolution.
Portal

Springfield, MO

#566101 Nov 26, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
People like me say that your "Lord" is a mythological creature like the Kraken.
A woman asked a guy in South America who his God was and he said, "We were dropped off here by a spaceship!" Amen!!!!!!!!!!Finally, a human with a brain and not brainwashed..........christian s!

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#566102 Nov 26, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Polygamy has always been what?
Straight? Because the male goes inside the female...(just like plumbing parts)
I explained what I see. You're gay. I assume you know those kind of gays. What's the deal?
The norm.

I'm not a plumber. Females go inside females too. Males go inside males. We just use different tools.

All gays know each other, right?

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#566103 Nov 26, 2012
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
He can borrow my pants anytime he wants to. A little secret RR. He's my friend. "What?", you may ask. A homosexual and a heterosexual being friends? Should we call the thought police? A priest? A tailor?
.. the vice squad ??..

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#566104 Nov 26, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, I thought we in England spoke nicer English! You american and canadian people are just jealous of the sexy british accent!!
My wife and I were this evening watching a British movie, The Orgasm Diaries, one with about 75% of it full nudity, and in a couple scenes neither my wife nor I could understand a word that the characters said, yet they were talking British English.

Actually I am impressed by a lot of the British accents too, as some of them sound very dignified. It tends, for me at least, to make one think the person is more intelligent than they might be. We had friends around our age when we first moved from the farm, and maintained some contact until my wife and I split in 2000, who had come to Canada from England after they married, and though I think both my wife and I were better educated than either, at least he was rather intimidating because his manner of speaking and his accent kind of carried an air of authority about it.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#566105 Nov 26, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope you know that you will never get in her pants...
You callin' me fat?
TRYING

Morgantown, WV

#566106 Nov 26, 2012
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
He can borrow my pants anytime he wants to. A little secret RR. He's my friend. "What?", you may ask. A homosexual and a heterosexual being friends? Should we call the thought police? A priest? A tailor?
NO! Call the LORD.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#566107 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that cultural norms generally come into play. Although we would have to know the standard morality of such a culture. Let's even shrink it down to a more controlled environment because that is the only way to do it where there could be any semblance of a guarantee that someone wouldn't use the fact that a child does not think there is anything wrong with adult nudity from strangers to abuse them. Say for instance a small nudist colony of moral people. Then I would say fine, the actual human form in and of itself is not a bad thing and in a controlled environment if he was/she was raised to still respect their bodies and others than I would have no problem...in a controlled environment
<quoted text>
I agree, what if 'moral' is not always universal and just because we do not embrace it as aq society does not necessarily make it wrong. But in a society where pedophiles prey on children I cannot think of a single possible reason to allow an environment in which children think it is ok for strangers to be naked around them.
Yes the shame or stigma attached to our bodies play a role. It is socially engrained in most of us. I certainly couldn't walk around nude. And there may be an argument that is wrong and we should be proud of our bodies. That is fine for adults. My issue isn't that people want to walk around naked. My issue is that children are too impressionable and it leaves them more vulnerable in a dangerous society filled with immoral people. Although honestly even if you took that out of the equation, which there is no way to do, I still see no reason children should see adult strangers naked. But with the risk involved opening them up to being taken advantage of by a predator, it just outweighs any possible reward, if there even is one. IMO anyway
(T) Peace
But to make the children fully knowledgeable and comfortable about the human body might still be better in the long run than bringing them up to think the human body is sinful, and then try to switch to a normal sex life and normal life in general once they find a spouse.

Yes, we have to protect our kids from dangerous people but that applies whether kids see nude bodies or not.

My first wife was traumatized by a perfectly harmless exhibitionist who exposed himself to her when she was taking a shortcut to school, and then reported it and had to go through police questioning, her mother freaking out, etc., but if she had been raised that the naked body was just that, a naked body, she might have laughed at the man and walked on. He didn't touch or attack her; he got his jollies from showing his penis to young girls.

The man was a poor pathetic misfit, but her reaction and the impact it had on her, likely for the rest of her life, was greatly exacerbated by how she had been indoctrinated about sex.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#566108 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree the more we give into stooping to that level, especially when it is becomming the normal level of discourse in general, the easier it is to keep it up. Like you I strive for something better but for me anyway I find I can get knocked off stride easier than I would like. I am not exactly famous for my patience!
I try to keep my 'relationships' with people on Topix based on my individual interactions with them and not what goes on between them and otghers. We are alla dults. And like you said, the exception is when someone crosses thresholds that perception-wise there just is little way to repair the damage. For me bigotry, violence towards women, or just going way, way, way over the line in either attacking the faith or using it as a pretense to cover their own personal attacks.
Basically common-sense stuff. Unless someone shows me they are just an unbelievable scumbag that I didn't realize at first, then I am willinbg toi talk to anyone as well regardless of "sides"
(T) Peace
Actually though it hurts to have one's opinion questioned, because one feels denigrated, putting down a faith such as Christianity to a true believer should really not affect them at all. If they strongly believe what they claim, why would what some 'ignorant' atheist says about the Bible or God affect them so much, that they feel they have to defend God? Does this God need the help of a mere mortal, assuming God exists?

I am amazed at the threats of killing going on in the world over people making jokes about Mohammad, Jesus, God/Allah. Good grief, no one can hurt some super being, should it actually exist, so why get all out of sorts about it? If one respects God, then one can decide for him/her self that he/she will not say derogatory things about God, but what others say, should for them at the very most only make them question the intelligence of the other person; not feel that an attack using very ungodly methods is in order.

That was not directed at you.

Having said that I still think that one doesn't insult one's host if visiting in their home by making derogatory comments about their God, because what you are really doing in that situation is saying your host is stupid to believe.

When someone here gets angry and starts accusing others of blaspheming God, what they are actually doing is saying they are offended because someone questions the fact that they are a believer. They refuse to take ownership of their own feelings but pass it off as protecting God.

That to me just diminishes the image of God.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#566109 Nov 26, 2012
TRYING wrote:
<quoted text> NO! Call the LORD.
I did. I got his voice mail. He said he was in West "by god" Virginia shootin some deer. Call back later.

What's up TRYING?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#566110 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure I don't deny that we are culturally biased
And if we were talking about just adults then this is a whole different conversation
But there simply is np justification for letting a child think it is ok for an adult stranger to be naked in front of him. How much easier does that make it for a pedophile to inititate the abusing process? Why do you think most of them start either by getting a kid drunk somewhere, watching porn, or using an environment like a lockerroom where it is more acceptable to be undressed? We start making everywhere acceptable and we better be prepared for what comes next because we will own part of that blame. We have a responsibility as parents, as adults, as humans, as citizens, and as a society to keep our young ones safe.
(T) Peace
As with everything, like not taking rides with strangers who may just be kind in offering to drive them home, or they might be a predator, we have to alert our children, for their protection about what they should or shouldn't do when you are not there to protect them, but if they are raised around other naked people including many who are strangers to them, and there is never any danger in that particular setting, but they are told to never let anyone coax them to do something like that in a setting where they might be alone, and they do not at all have any knowledge of that person, then I can't see that treating the body as all being a good thing rather than one part with exactly the same DNA as their hands and face is bad.

I highly suspect that a lot of mental illnesses today comes from bad parenting, when the child is raised to fear things that should not be fearful, and thus when they are in certain situations they become excessively fearful to the point of becoming mentally ill.

I don't necessarily think, though that children need to sit in an audience and watch their parents engaged in sexual intercourse and other sex acts right in front of them. The act of sex, is something personal between two people, in most cases, unless several are all in agreement with some form of group sex, which unfortunately I never got invited to participate in, so keeping the sex act from the children should not be considered wrong, but on the other hand, if they accidentally walk in on their parents during a sex act, the parents should not traumatize them for life by over-reacting, but rather dealing with it in a protective and kind manner.
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#566111 Nov 26, 2012
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
I did. I got his voice mail. He said he was in West "by god" Virginia shootin some deer. Call back later.
What's up TRYING?
Damn, girl, your humor is wicked. Stay warped.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#566113 Nov 26, 2012
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Good grief.
Somebody check me on this - I think that's every single Fundie logic flaw in just one post!
Spinoza was incorrect ?

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#566114 Nov 26, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Why??? That's crazy! You think someone else's nudity hurts your child???
That's insane. What do you think is going to happen to the child? Do you think s/he will explode? Suddenly become a Muslim? I mean, get real.
The OT prophet Isaiah walked the streets of Jerusalem nude for three years. Seems that proves he was "evil". So why do they believe such a perv ?

<smile>

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#566115 Nov 26, 2012
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
The norm.
I'm not a plumber. Females go inside females too. Males go inside males. We just use different tools.
All gays know each other, right?
There are so many adapters out there. You can do just about anything.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#566116 Nov 26, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
True, when it comes to some punk bully at a school I really don't think about (or care) his feelings or psychological problems. All I think about is MY sons upbringing and well being.
Having had both a wife and and daughter who worked in what you call Children's Services, I would think that if wind got to them of a father who sent his kid to school with instructions to break a kid's nose if bullied, the father, or family, would be getting a visit from Children's Services. In a free society with laws and laws against violence, teaching a child that a violent act should be treated with another violent act, as opposed to getting the proper authorities to act on laws that are in place, especially today to deal with such situations is bad parenting, and has the potential of creating a violent adult in your child.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#566117 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
Edit Tide:
I realized I didn't finish my though on priests. The point is that if anything because pedophiles would seek out a church to hide in plain sight and have opportunities to abuse, it is surprising to me the numbers are not a lot higher. But we do have to balance it with what has been covered up. However at the same time this is charged, not convicted so it is pretty inclusive. Whether the percentage points might dip or be a little higher the bottom line is basically it is the same percentage as the population as a whole. Someone is a pedophile long before coming a priest. Just like they are a pedophile long before coming a teacher, who are at the highest rate of abuse.
For every scumbag molester priest, there are thousands who live good lives or try to at least as hard as most. The reason there is such a generalization about priests is because it is a big news item, especially because of the coverups. As it should be. But if someone picks up a paper and read a priest molested a kid 3-4 times in their entire life it is still human nature to think, man what is going on over there even though even more kids are being molested by teachers and psychiatrists and in the general population as a whole.
Being a priest does not make someone any more likely to be a pedophile. The systematic cover-ups unfortunately have led to a climate of abuse. A safer haven for pedophiles if you will but they were pedophiles before they got there. And if they weren't abusing there they would simply be trying to be abusing kids elsewhere.
(T) Peace
While this is maybe being ironed out lately, there were a huge number of cases of priests abusing a child, and rather than do anything about the priest the people above him just moved him to a different place sometimes a long way from the first. We had a case in a city near here where a priest was caught molesting children so they sent him to a western province. One of his former congregation just happened to be visiting in that same area at some later time and recognized him, and reported him to the authorities as the church had placed him right back into a situation where he could abuse more children. From the little I have paid attention to the stories of RC priests, because RC is not my bag nor is celibacy in the clergy something I think is right, it seems that a lot of situations were handled that way.

I heard the story because it was my former partner' family's church where he was working in this area.

I think that pedophiles going into the ministry might be part of it, but likely the main thing is the completely insane idea of putting a perfectly healthy sexual being into a job where he is not permitted to recognize his sexuality at all, and after being there for a while he realizes the sexual urge is too great and he then picks easy targets rather than trying to seduce some parishioner's wife. The actual work of being a priest is rather not something that your common ordinary criminal minded person would choose if his main goal was to molest kids, IMO.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#566118 Nov 26, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
There are so many adapters out there. You can do just about anything.
I'm open to adaptation and improvisation.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#566119 Nov 26, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You think I'm a bad parent because I teach my sons to stand up for themselves? lol
If that rock had been one inch lower, it would've likely broken my sons nose. If it had been three inches lower, it might've popped a few of his teeth. Do you think the bully cared? Nope, he threw the rock at my sons face intentionally.
I was threatened with a lawsuit. I was contacted by CPS. But nothing ever came if it, except that the bully stopped bullying and he & my sin became pretty good friends. After that incident, all of a sudden the bullies friends became my sons friends. What do ya know.....
You got lucky because I think you should have been put on watch by Children's Services and your son should have received professional counseling about what is appropriate and what isn't appropriate behavior. Yes, what the other kids did was wrong and he needed to have that dealt with, but not by your son doing the very same thing as he did, or could have done, but worse. If it worked in that case then that would be an exception, but it could have gone several other very nasty and wrong ways because of what you taught your kid.

If I still had a child in school (of course I have 6 grandkids that are either in school or soon will be), I would be quite worried if I knew that some of the parents were telling their kid to pick up a rock and throw it at a bully, or even try to punch his lights out if they get bullied. Yes, tell them if they fear they will be harmed badly, or even killed, to try to get help or defend themselves if they have no choice, but never strike back as the first response.

Your situation was not dealt with appropriately and people should have lost their jobs over how it was handled.

In terms of looking at it from the perspective of the people being adults, what you are advising your kid would be the same as if some idiot does something dangerous or impolite against you while you are driving down the highway you should teach him a lesson by chasing him and running his car off the road and possibly killing him, so next time he will know better. Perhaps it is because of your mentality that road rage is such a big problem, and I understand it is worse in the USA that in Canada.

I am not suggesting that you personally do that, but using it as a metaphor.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#566120 Nov 26, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Unlikely. Most bullies only have a few friends, not usually more than one or two. And they're not BFF's or anything. They hang with the bully because they themselves are weak. They look up to the bully. But as soon as the bully gets bullied... That's all she wrote.
<quoted text>
Oh! You've convinced me! I'm gonna run right out & tell my kids to just go ahead and get beat up. Don't fight back. Do nothing but inform the authorities. Basically, be French....
Sorry the 'be French' went right over my head, and I didn't advise what you claimed I did. I said do not advise your son to return violence with violence except if that is his only avenue of escape. In your son's case he could have run away and told someone, but he potentially escalated the situation by breaking the other kids nose with a rock. If some adult had come on the scene just at he moment your son hit the other kid it would be interpreted that he was the aggressor and I think a broken nose would be stronger evidence for that then broken glasses, though what the bully did was 100% wrong.

What if the other kid still had some fight left in him after getting a broken nose, and picked up the same rock again and bashed your kids skull in to the point he was brain damaged for life or worse? As I said you got lucky in that situation, but it sounds too much like the old west movies, which I loved, where anytime anyone bullied you you called them out into the street and killed them in a gunfight.

I realize that violence is part of the American mentality, as your country has been in violent situations pretty well every generation since 1776, but has that really been a good thing?

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