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“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

Boss of the Inland Empire

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#564936
Nov 21, 2012
 

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OCB wrote:
<quoted text>You don't learn, do you?
John Adams also said the following:
“This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it”
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded upon the Christian religion”
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" --- John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." -letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774
"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." -1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches
"... Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
Get it through your thick skull or move to a theocracy.
The USA is NOT a Christian nation.
The USA is NOT a white nation.
The USA has NO official language.
The USA was founded as a SECULAR nation.
The USA is still a SECULAR nation.
The USA will forever remain a SECULAR nation.
If you are so anti-American that you can't respect or even acknowledge the founding tenets of this great nation and what those tenets sjtand for, GET THE HELL OUT.
All of the founding fathers were deeply religious men. Of the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence, nearly half (24) held seminary or Bible school degrees. Most were Deists with a few being Christian. The Declaration of Independence gives us important insight into the opinions of the Founding Fathers. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the power of the government is derived from the governed. Up until that time, it was claimed that kings ruled nations by the authority of God. The Declaration was a big departure from the idea that the power to rule over other people comes from God. They understood the pros and cons of religious influence in government and didn't want to have government stifle or control churches or vice versa.

Since: Sep 11

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#564937
Nov 21, 2012
 
Lies Buster wrote:
<quoted text>You are either a sock of HL's or another puss who just admitted that you received your stalking memo.
Another legendary troll speaks to me? Am I the chosen one?

Since: Jul 12

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#564938
Nov 21, 2012
 
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Why?
Observable evidence of one not having a life
:)

Since: Sep 10

Seattle, WA

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#564939
Nov 21, 2012
 

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Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>All of the founding fathers were deeply religious men. Of the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence, nearly half (24) held seminary or Bible school degrees. Most were Deists with a few being Christian. The Declaration of Independence gives us important insight into the opinions of the Founding Fathers. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the power of the government is derived from the governed. Up until that time, it was claimed that kings ruled nations by the authority of God. The Declaration was a big departure from the idea that the power to rule over other people comes from God. They understood the pros and cons of religious influence in government and didn't want to have government stifle or control churches or vice versa.
Some were not "deeply" religious I would say.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and all the other good people here.

Since: Jul 12

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#564940
Nov 21, 2012
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Another legendary troll speaks to me? Am I the chosen one?
Someone's gotta be the poop picker upper.

Since: Sep 10

Seattle, WA

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#564941
Nov 21, 2012
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Observable evidence of one not having a life
:)
Hi, pot.

Is the kettle black?

Since: Sep 11

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#564942
Nov 21, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Someone's gotta be the poop picker upper.
There can only be one.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#564943
Nov 21, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Observable evidence of one not having a life
:)
You mean because of the holiday? I don't think everyone celebrates Thanksgiving.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#564944
Nov 21, 2012
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Another legendary troll speaks to me? Am I the chosen one?
You've been chosen to help select the name for the troll's next sock account.

Do you like the name Ralph?

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

Boss of the Inland Empire

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#564945
Nov 21, 2012
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Some were not "deeply" religious I would say.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and all the other good people here.
Thank you Catcher! And to you as we'll.
May you and your family have a restful day tomorrow.

Since: Sep 11

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#564946
Nov 21, 2012
 
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
You've been chosen to help select the name for the troll's next sock account.
Do you like the name Ralph?
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Too dignified for a troll.

“Go ahead.”

Since: Mar 11

Make my day.

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#564947
Nov 21, 2012
 

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Pokay wrote:
<quoted text>We know matter did not exist at t = 0? I thought we agreed that we knew NOTHING about t = 0? I mean as far as we can guess matter was "created" later, although a better way to put it would be it condensed from whatever plasmic reality preceded it, because as we also agreed, it doesn't make sense that something can form from nothing (creation). That's why any speculation or hypothesis as to some form of creation is, by definition, not an option.
e=mcc

As Einstein's equation explains, matter cannot exist outside of time. If you want to argue he was wrong, by all means, do so.

Wait - I only agreed that something could not come from the absence of everything (and whatever, if anything, that exists outside of this universe). The non-existence of matter does not necessarily constitute the "nothing" you are referring to. There could be a matter-less something that we are unable to comprehend, given our time and space bound existence.
Remember, just because we call it 't = 0', does not mean time was not somehow still a physical reality at t = 0. "t = 0" is just a reference to something that preceded our expansion. We have no idea whether we are part of something bigger…… which would, if true, then preserve the notion of time.
Why call it time zero if time existed?

Again, according to Einstein's equations, time is a function of the expansion of space. It could not have existed prior to the expansion of space. At t=0, there is no expansion and so no time.
Sure it’s possible to speculate. But without time we have nothing to go on, so again, what good is such a model? Would it even make sense?
It doesn't need to make sense to us. That's not a requirement.

In fact, I guarantee you, an equation describing a timeless existence could not make sense to us.
The wave function breaks down without time. I didn't google it before I posted this but I bet the model would be so simple as to possibly have no math in it at all; I bet it would just be a statement something like, "in this model there was no motion, only existence". What else could you say about it?
It may have separate ways of "doing time." Could be zero dimensions of time, or two, or three - or more. Perhaps our one dimension of time is simply some kind of representation of time outside the universe.

I'm not a physicist, so I can't do that kind of math. Let's engage Poly on this subject.
Matter fact that was one thing that poly would do. He’d say that there is no such thing as a reality without time. But he always forgets to add the all important phrase "according to a mathematical model". There is no such thing as a reality without time that can be described by a mathematical model.
Funny though that some math concepts don't really require time. 1 + 1 is still 2. That's true whether there is motion or not. Two things could exist without motion. We just don't know,....but they could. Funnier yet, it takes time to make that statement (that 1 + 1 = 2).
Yeah, we're in agreement here.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#564948
Nov 21, 2012
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Too dignified for a troll.
Really? Ralph can mean vomit.

Since: Sep 11

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#564949
Nov 21, 2012
 
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? Ralph can mean vomit.
True. Then we could make clever posts about Raplh raplhing ralph all over the forum.

“Go ahead.”

Since: Mar 11

Make my day.

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#564950
Nov 21, 2012
 
See you guys! Happy Thanksgiving.

Since: Jul 09

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#564951
Nov 21, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly... Karma's post was retarded.
she quoted the bible

many agree, with you

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#564952
Nov 21, 2012
 
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>All of the founding fathers were deeply religious men. Of the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence, nearly half (24) held seminary or Bible school degrees. Most were Deists with a few being Christian. The Declaration of Independence gives us important insight into the opinions of the Founding Fathers. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the power of the government is derived from the governed. Up until that time, it was claimed that kings ruled nations by the authority of God. The Declaration was a big departure from the idea that the power to rule over other people comes from God. They understood the pros and cons of religious influence in government and didn't want to have government stifle or control churches or vice versa.
You are mixed up here Al. The sole reason for separation of church and state was to prevent a church from gaining complete authority over government. The main reason for this and the fear of this was to escape the church of England who held control of Americans from across the sea. The church of England controlled everything before independence was won.

So by decree it was written into the constitution that there could be no state appointed religion or religion appointed state.
Some foolish Americans want to return to a theocracy , but it is because they do not understand the reasons why we wrote the possibility out.

Since: Jul 09

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#564953
Nov 21, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh please.... Churches have been tax exempt for thousands of years. They were exempt even in the Roman Empire.
Don't be jealous.
America should tax the churches fairly, and pay off it's national debt

Since: Sep 11

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#564954
Nov 21, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
See you guys! Happy Thanksgiving.
Likewise.

Since: Jul 10

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#564955
Nov 21, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh please.... Churches have been tax exempt for thousands of years. They were exempt even in the Roman Empire.
Don't be jealous.
However now with 20% or less of tax payers actually involved with churches, should they be exempt? Having been on church board of executives, I know that most churches today would not survive without the help they get, because, especially in cities, the taxes on such large properties would be higher than some of them take in in a year.

But why should a church have tax exemptions in a country that has separation of church and state? Essentially by giving them tax exemptions that is involving the government with the church.

Also many churches don't take in more than the cost of maintaining their own property and employees, so that means they are being counted as a charitable organization though they might not necessarily be contributing to charity.

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