Prove there's a god.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#562494 Nov 13, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
No, Pokay-Mon, she's not lying. And it's you that just got caught again - caught being not too bright. She got the links from somewhere where they were recorded when originally posted and never updated. Topix edits posts out, and frequently, a post will end up on the page prior to the one it started out on, the one in the link.
Hiding's first link terminates in the suffix "...T63/p26570#c558200, " which can be seen in the address bar of your browser by clicking on it. This format specifies the page and post number. Once upon a time, your post, number 558200, was on page 26570. But now, because of deletions, it is on page 26569, which is obvious by looking at the URL, the post number it contains, and the number of the first post on the page, which happens to be #558216. With there being twenty posts per page, post 558200 is one page back.
Unfortunately, the software goes to the specified page, and when it can't find the post there, it leaves you at the top of that page. It doesn't figure out to go one page back. But you can.
All you needed to do was to look at the URL up there, realize that it was referring to a post that would be a page earlier, click on "<prev page," and find the post. I did.
Her second link suffers from the same problem. It's suffix is "T63/p26572#c558243, " and as you should have guessed by now, post 558243 is now on page 26572.
In both cases, you could have noted that the post number is lower than the first post on the page, and gone back a page to access it. Instead, you preferred to call Hiding a liar.
FYI, there is a second post URL format that uses the suffix "...T63/post558200" which is much more flexible. In this case, the software looks for the post by number. This never fails, whatever page the post ends up on over time. Here's the link in that format http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE...
This format is collected by right clicking on the post number immediately to the left of the words "Judge It," and selecting "Copy Link Location"
Hey, thanks for that - NS just explained to me on another thread that I should delete the page numbers when I paste the links. From now on, I will :)

It's amazing how often the word "liar" gets tossed around on these threads.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#562495 Nov 13, 2012
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>Science can’t tell us the purpose of anything. It can't give us the meaning of life, it can tell us what life is, not what it ought to be.
Science can tell us more than we ever wanted to know about human anatomy, it can describe what makes up the heart and the brain and how these fascinating organs function, but it can not tell us the purpose of a person or how to love or even what love is. To describe the purpose of something implies a knowledge of the reason it was made the way it was. Science can tell us a lot about the way a human being works, but it cannot tell us the intent behind the design of a human being.(of course this is a Christian view point)
Science can describe and categorize life and our experience with the world, but it cannot explain what it all means. People try to use science to tell us that the world is an accident, that life has no meaning, but these types of determinations are outside of the jurisdiction of science. These are Theological questions, not scientific questions.
The Bible teaches us that love is patient, love is kind, love is not jealous or boastful or proud. It teaches what it is and ought to be. The Bible has many meanings and passages explaining, and defining love.
The Bible restores our humanness from the cold and unfeeling of the world. It explains why besides we simply being the result of assemblage of molecules and atoms that we posses why life is worth living.
The Bible teaches us the responsibilty and nature of returning love back as the response for life.
There is no 1950's about it Hiding.
Science doesn't directly seek to give meaning to life, but I have gotten more spiritual satisfaction from scientific knowledge than I could ever hope to gain from a book of stories. Knowing that we are all intimately connected with the universe, in a very direct way, feels a lot better than thinking that some old guy made us out of dust.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#562496 Nov 13, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't have "lovers" ... nor do I wish for any. How many times do I have to remind you that I am asexual before you actually realize what that means?
Also no, I love my father, he was a good person and highly intelligent. I love my friends, enjoy their company and chatter. I love animals, except the ones I eat, those are just too tasty, and you gotta kill them to eat them.
As I pointed out, no, none, two people will ever describe any emotion the same. They are opinion, though they are produced by the same chemical reactions, the "feeling" of that emotion will always differ.
You may have some tasty friends too, hey you never know till you try!
lol

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

just better than yesterday

#562497 Nov 13, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't have "lovers" ... nor do I wish for any. How many times do I have to remind you that I am asexual before you actually realize what that means?
Also no, I love my father, he was a good person and highly intelligent. I love my friends, enjoy their company and chatter. I love animals, except the ones I eat, those are just too tasty, and you gotta kill them to eat them.
As I pointed out, no, none, two people will ever describe any emotion the same. They are opinion, though they are produced by the same chemical reactions, the "feeling" of that emotion will always differ.
Love is an amazing thing Kitten. It truly is more than just a chemical reaction IMHO. Chemicals cannot make choices. We choose to open our hearts or not to every day. This choice is what makes us human and fully rising above our chemical reactions that allow os to make spiritual decisions of the heart. No animal that we know can do this. It is a true gift that should not be taken lightly by anyone.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#562498 Nov 13, 2012
Pokay wrote:
What you don't understand my dear is that we already have a definition for "nothing". It means something cannot come of it, if it is indeed nothing. If something comes of "it" then it is not nothing.
Ok, we can go with that from now on. What shall we call an uncaused universe that began from some sort of quantum event of which no precursors existed?
You know, I argued with polymath that the models for the universe leave us to wonder whether there can be an "outside". He says there is no "outside" which means there is no "nothing". Show me why I should believe these virtual particles are indeed going absolutely out of existence (into nothingness) rather than out of our range of perception? Funny how you can take the same evidence and look the other way. You mean you are in disagreement with your buddy polymath?
In matters physics, take Polymath's word over mine every time.

By "no outside" I think he meant "in any sense that we can relate to, because of how time and space work." But I could be wrong here. Do you, by chance, have a link?

As for your "show me" sentence: here's a nice read that seems to suggest I'm mistaken about them coming from nothing: http://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-pos...

Here's another take on that:

http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/...
No need to get around it. If our existence is an illusion, it is still something, it is still real, a real illusion; we still exist, just that we can't perceive our true nature. If we are somekind of artificial intelligence then that implies there is a real intelligence that has synthesized us. There is no need to get around anything here.
So at some level, existence is assured. Ok, sounds great.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#562499 Nov 13, 2012
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
Love is an amazing thing Kitten. It truly is more than just a chemical reaction IMHO. Chemicals cannot make choices. We choose to open our hearts or not to every day. This choice is what makes us human and fully rising above our chemical reactions that allow os to make spiritual decisions of the heart. No animal that we know can do this. It is a true gift that should not be taken lightly by anyone.
Cut out your amygdala and somehow compromise your dopamine pathways and then try to fall in love.

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

just better than yesterday

#562500 Nov 13, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Science doesn't directly seek to give meaning to life, but I have gotten more spiritual satisfaction from scientific knowledge than I could ever hope to gain from a book of stories. Knowing that we are all intimately connected with the universe, in a very direct way, feels a lot better than thinking that some old guy made us out of dust.
LOL! good for you. I mean that! Keep in mind that as time goes on, your opinion may change. They almost always do. Perhaps, one day you may look at "that old guy" differently. Just saying.

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

just better than yesterday

#562501 Nov 13, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Theological questions? nope
Philosophical questions? yep
You have just made your philosophy to be theological.
"What does Athens have to do with Jeruselum?"
-Tertullian

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

just better than yesterday

#562502 Nov 13, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Cut out your amygdala and somehow compromise your dopamine pathways and then try to fall in love.
"What does the Princess from StarWars have to do with love?"
-Al Garcia

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#562503 Nov 13, 2012
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL! good for you. I mean that! Keep in mind that as time goes on, your opinion may change. They almost always do. Perhaps, one day you may look at "that old guy" differently. Just saying.
Maybe it will, but I doubt it. You're assuming that I haven't already taken a very good look at "that old guy."

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

just better than yesterday

#562504 Nov 13, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Maybe it will, but I doubt it. You're assuming that I haven't already taken a very good look at "that old guy."
The only assumption that I make is that you have already taken a good look at "the old guy" thats why you're here. On Topix.
I just stated a general fact about every one in general. I would not assume anything else about you friend. That could be considered disrespectful.

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#562505 Nov 13, 2012
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>Hate speech all too often leads to hate crimes and to violent hate crimes.
That is why there are laws against hate speech.
Hate speeches can and do incite and encourage people to turn words of hate into actions of hate.
DUH.
Are you trying to talk reason to nano?

She's not interested in reason.

OK nano, lash out, I'm ready.

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#562506 Nov 13, 2012
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>You're an idiot. You're so stupid you don't even know what is legally a hate crime or what is legally hate speech.
And I'm not here to educate you; even if I was, I wouldn't waste my time on someone of such low caliber as you are who has proven to be ineducable.
Careful, OCB.

nano will sic lilticked or Pokay on you.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#562507 Nov 13, 2012
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
The only assumption that I make is that you have already taken a good look at "the old guy" thats why you're here. On Topix.
I just stated a general fact about every one in general. I would not assume anything else about you friend. That could be considered disrespectful.
I think it's a bit disrespectful for you to insinuate that in time, I will start to see things your way. Barring a drastic change in the evidence for god, that's not gonna happen. I don't think you were trying to be offensive though.

Also, it's not a general fact about everyone that opinions change a lot. Once a belief is formed, it is very hard to change. The mind does not like to let go of it's ideas about things.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#562508 Nov 13, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Well, how do you go from "we exist" to "our universe must have one truth that is discoverable?"
Pokay wrote:
There are some things beyond words, I can try to make you understand but...?
That's not an argument.
It's not like I have to make a leap; if we exist then there has to be some truth we exist by, something that defines us.
some truth we exist by: the four forces
something that defines us: our humanity (something given to us by biological evolution, culture and personality)
We are trying to find it. Just because we can't pin down any absolute reference points doesn't mean there aren't any.
That's not a strong foundation for an argument. Consider: "just because we can't find Spider-man, doesn't mean he isn't around somewhere."
If there aren't any I would think we wouldn't exist at all.
Why not? Well, to be fair, you already pointed out that we have at least the absolute truth of existence, So we can't have no absolutes, we must have at least one. And "existence" covers quite a lot of ground - self, consciousness, the physical universe we interact with.

The question we're really getting at is: must the universe have one guiding reality, of which we can only access a small, subjective part? Or is reality subjective and not objectively real?

Much reality must be objectively real. No matter how strongly I want to fly, I can't. And when I jump out of a 10 story building, no matter how many happy thoughts I have, I still won't fly and won't enjoy the ending. And most of the universe works whether I'm present or not.

But lots of it isn't, as well. Some examples include: 1) Our time is relative, as Einstein demonstrated (and without his equations, GPS wouldn't work). 2) The uncertainty principle limits what we can know about the universe. 3) Dynamic systems are inherently unpredictable - and without adding this "randomness" to them, our models simply fail (economics, evolution are examples of this principle).
We can't define a particle; we can only observe it's behavior and try to define it by that.
Really? I didn't know that.
But they exist, something is giving us the signal that matter gives us, and that something has to have an absolute truth to it which we do not know.
If we can't define it, maybe it doesn't have an absolute truth.
I don't mean to imply that absolute knowledge is discoverable, but anything that exists has to have an absolute explanation.'Not being able to find it' has no bearing on existence.
<quoted text> Because existence cannot be without a complete truth or explanation. It's besides the point that we can't find the definition. You already agreed that existence cannot be "false". I'm sure he didn't mean that this statement excludes a higher power. If I remember right I think he actually did believe in a higher power in one form or another.
<quoted text> I don't argue with that.
I have to sleep...

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#562509 Nov 13, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Science doesn't directly seek to give meaning to life, but I have gotten more spiritual satisfaction from scientific knowledge than I could ever hope to gain from a book of stories. Knowing that we are all intimately connected with the universe, in a very direct way, feels a lot better than thinking that some old guy made us out of dust.
Aesop's Fables are kind of fun.

They express universal human values and moral principles.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#562510 Nov 13, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't have "lovers" ... nor do I wish for any. How many times do I have to remind you that I am asexual before you actually realize what that means?
Also no, I love my father, he was a good person and highly intelligent. I love my friends, enjoy their company and chatter. I love animals, except the ones I eat, those are just too tasty, and you gotta kill them to eat them.
As I pointed out, no, none, two people will ever describe any emotion the same. They are opinion, though they are produced by the same chemical reactions, the "feeling" of that emotion will always differ.
asexual is what a confused homosexual really should be!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#562511 Nov 13, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
If you're willing to let brain scans & chemical changes be evidence of love, then you need to be willing to allow the same as evidence of God
Sure. Where is it?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
or at least evidence of belief.
That's not even close to the same thing. I don't need more evidence of your faith. I have plenty of evidence of that now. I need less, actually.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
A stonger belief than an atheist can have.
That seems unlikely. There isn't much that believers excel at when compared to unbelievers.

They are said to have a slightly longer life on average, but I doubt that, too - at least in America, where many are also science rubes, and simply don't trust science, and therefore don't benefit as much from vaccines, hygiene, prenatal health care, cholesterol and blood pressure control, regular exercise, avoidance of various toxins such as tobacco, and the like.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#562512 Nov 13, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
The difference between you and the majority is how you define
"goodness and common sense".
evil/darkness and plain anarchy has no place anywhere , it is not found in democrats. That's just crazy.
the difference between you & i is that i realize i don't get to define goodness nor does it change with the times.

better for you to conform to goodness now while you have the chance before it condemns you in the end.

Jesus is the Cornerstone that in His own words "if you fall on it you will be broken, but if it falls on you, you will be crushed to powder"

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

just better than yesterday

#562513 Nov 13, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I think it's a bit disrespectful for you to insinuate that in time, I will start to see things your way. Barring a drastic change in the evidence for god, that's not gonna happen. I don't think you were trying to be offensive though.
Also, it's not a general fact about everyone that opinions change a lot. Once a belief is formed, it is very hard to change. The mind does not like to let go of it's ideas about things.
Whoa!!!! there cowboy!!!:) I never said that you would see God my way. I merely stated that you may in time see him "differently" than you do now. Perhaps you saw him differently in the past, I don't know. And no, I was not trying to be offensive. Thank you for not reaching that conclusion.

I do believe that we do change our opinions, beliefs, our interpretations over time. Some more than others. As people grow throughout their lives, we mature and learn and change. We adapt to what we learn. It's the human way I suppose to grow based on our insights of our life experiences.

That's why we do not think as we did when we were young.

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