Prove there's a god.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#548849 Oct 10, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do elements not evolve?
Oxygen has always been oxygen, right?
Carbon has always been carbon, right?
Water has always been water...
Every life on Earth is made of elements & are thought to have evolved. Why hasn't elements evolved?
Err...that's not actually what theory has to do in science.

Elements don't evolve because they don't reproduce. Evolution is about change - you need something that can change to have evolution. You need to have a system that includes 1) reproduction, 2) inheritable traits, 3) variation of those traits, and 3) limited resources to have evolution.

If you're missing any of those, you simply do not have a system with evolution in it.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#548850 Oct 10, 2012
scambuster wrote:
<quoted text>
People on here are usually rude... I've kinda come to expect it when I come here. Hell, even I can be an asshole sometimes on here. I have met some incredible people on here though... Atheists, Agnostics, Christian... All types. All interesting people.
I guess the key to it all is to expect people to get angry, and not get butthurt about it. My philosophy anyway.
I'm only rude to people after they've been rude to me. Orangelion picked a fight - s/he's all upset that s/he can't keep up. That's what happens when your only source of knowledge comes from creationism.

:)

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#548851 Oct 10, 2012
Orangelion wrote:
And when animals adapt, the adaptation is supposed to be permanant, its supposed to be improving to more conditions it faces, not simply suited to the condition its already in, that isn't improving, that is simply suiting the enviroment. The peppered moth should have the ability to change colour anyway at anytime to suit the enviroment if it is to adapt to improve its survival of the fittest. Fish have adapted to living on land have they? Is this really survival of the fittest, it isn't survival of the fittest anymore if he is in the see again and drownin. Evolution is flawed.
I'm sorry, but you are very confused about biology.

Adaptation takes place at several different levels. Within individuals, adaptation has two levels: developmental and immediate response. All offspring's bodies develop in response to environmental conditions. So, a child grows up in a high altitude environment, its body will be well suited to apoxia. A child grows up in poverty, it's going to be of smaller stature, have greater health problems and a shorter lifespan.

Immediate adaptive responses happen when you're faced with a challenge in the environment. So you go for a vacation in Peru to see Machu Pichu - suddenly, you're exposed to apoxic conditions. Your resting heart rate skyrockets, your breathing increases, blood pressure increases, mobility decreases. Over the course of three weeks, your red blood cell count will increase and your heart rate and breathing will return to near baseline.

Adaptive responses such as the above are the product of natural selection.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#548852 Oct 10, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, so then why does DNA evolve but the elements that make DNA don't?
B/c DNA:

1. produces proteins (traits)
2. is inherited
3. subject to mutation and therefore contains variety
4. either gets passed on or not

DNA that gets passed on continues in the environment. DNA that doesn't get passed on goes extinct. The DNA that gets passed on has mutations acting on it constantly. Sometimes this produces new, useful DNA and this outcompetes other, previous versions. The previous versions then go extinct.

Does this make sense?

The basic molecules that make up DNA don't change - it's the configuration (and therefore the products of) these molecules that get passed on.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#548853 Oct 10, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
It seems some people are arrogant enough to say that they "know"...
Gatekeeper doesn't know what s/he's talking about. S/he doesn't understand the math involved and is just making it up. S/he won't be able to point you to a scientific reference for his/her claims - s/he could only point to a creationist site for such fake numbers.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#548854 Oct 10, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
That's true, but you know it goes both ways on the bad parent subject.
I'm not that bigoted where I'll say that all gays are bad parents, I'm sure a lot of them are decent people.
I DO believe, though, that it gay parents can't give a child a moral compass of mom/dad. They can't. It's either 2 men or 2 women. I believe that the child will grow up a little confused & would possible choose to be gay, also.
Studies of children of gay households reveal that the children are better adjusted, on average, then in other household situations.

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#548855 Oct 10, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Where there's a left, there's always a right....
"Two therapists who try to turn gay people straight, along with a student who says he was successfully converted to heterosexuality, are suing nearly two dozen California state officials, including Gov. Jerry Brown, saying a new state law infringes on their civil rights."
www.cnn.com/2012/10/04/us/california-gay-ther...
.. you didn't read the entire article:

"This law bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide. These practices (conversion therapy) have no basis in science or medicine."

.. sending a child/teen to conversation therapy is akin to sending someone to Joseph Mengele's laboratory. Treatment includes aversion shock therapy, brainwashing and physical punishment. All because their parents can't accept them for who they are or their religion says they're not going to heaven if they're homosexual ..

.. pathetic ..

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#548856 Oct 10, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're telling me that you are 16?
Uhm...are you forgetting how our conversations went?
.. Orangelion & GK are not worth your time or brilliance ..

.. use your scroll button ..

.. RR is close, very close ..

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#548857 Oct 10, 2012
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. Orangelion & GK are not worth your time or brilliance ..
.. use your scroll button ..
.. RR is close, very close ..
Yeah, Orange and GK seem like the same person.

I like RR, he's ok by me once you get past the bigotry.:)
RickBlaine

West Memphis, AR

#548858 Oct 10, 2012
Elements don't evolve because they don't reproduce. Evolution is about change - you need something that can change to have evolution. You need to have a system that includes 1) reproduction, 2) inheritable traits, 3) variation of those traits, and 3) limited resources to have evolution.

If you're missing any of those, you simply do not have a system with evolution in it.

Huh?
RickBlaine

West Memphis, AR

#548859 Oct 10, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Err...that's not actually what theory has to do in science.
Elements don't evolve because they don't reproduce. Evolution is about change - you need something that can change to have evolution. You need to have a system that includes 1) reproduction, 2) inheritable traits, 3) variation of those traits, and 3) limited resources to have evolution.
If you're missing any of those, you simply do not have a system with evolution in it.
So, let me see if I can restate your argument. Elements didn't spontaneously generate from nothing. Living things didn't evolve by chance from non-living things (elements). Therefore, neither, living things, nor nonliving things exist. Therefore, God must not exist. Is that right?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#548860 Oct 10, 2012
RickBlaine wrote:
<quoted text>
So, let me see if I can restate your argument. Elements didn't spontaneously generate from nothing. Living things didn't evolve by chance from non-living things (elements). Therefore, neither, living things, nor nonliving things exist. Therefore, God must not exist. Is that right?
Huh? Uhm...the previous poster asked why molecules like Oxygen and Carbon don't evolve. The discussion, at that point, had nothing to do with the existence of God. Evolution doesn't actually prove or disprove God. Evolution is simply a tool to understand biological phenomena.

So I explained to Riverside what kind of system you need to have evolution. Evolution can only happen in systems that have: 1) inheritable traits, 2) variety in those traits, 3) scarce resources.

It's not an argument about God. It's not an argument about where atoms come from. It's just the required factors needed for a system that evolves.

Living organisms fit the requirements; they evolve.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#548861 Oct 10, 2012
RickBlaine wrote:
Elements don't evolve because they don't reproduce. Evolution is about change - you need something that can change to have evolution. You need to have a system that includes 1) reproduction, 2) inheritable traits, 3) variation of those traits, and 3) limited resources to have evolution.
If you're missing any of those, you simply do not have a system with evolution in it.
Huh?
Elements evolve within stars. They do not reproduce they are produced from nuclear fusion by a process called nucleosynthesis.
But for heavier elements it requires a large energy input to trade
particles within the atomic nucleus .
Elements heavier than iron are created when stars go supernova.
This is by neutron capture and called s-process and r-process.

Do not confuse the evolution of matter within stars , with the evolution of life on Earth.
RickBlaine

West Memphis, AR

#548862 Oct 10, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Elements evolve within stars. They do not reproduce they are produced from nuclear fusion by a process called nucleosynthesis.
But for heavier elements it requires a large energy input to trade
particles within the atomic nucleus .
Elements heavier than iron are created when stars go supernova.
This is by neutron capture and called s-process and r-process.
Do not confuse the evolution of matter within stars , with the evolution of life on Earth.
So now your are arguing that elements do evolve? And stars spontaneously generate from nothing?And "living" stuff which is made up of the same stuff as stars evolve according to a different pattern than elements that evolve from stars?

Just Results

“Jesus is Love”

Since: Jul 12

Hutchinson, MN

#548863 Oct 10, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Didn't god command these, or similar "things that transpired at the time"?
Why are you asking? I thought you thought God did not exist. You wouldn't be concerned you might be wrong, would you?

Just Results

“Jesus is Love”

Since: Jul 12

Hutchinson, MN

#548864 Oct 10, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
This is good news!
You might also be interested to know that for the first time in our history, a majority would vote for an atheist for president.
That left us in shambles.
Another mess Christians will have to clean up.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#548865 Oct 10, 2012
RickBlaine wrote:
<quoted text>
So now your are arguing that elements do evolve? And stars spontaneously generate from nothing?And "living" stuff which is made up of the same stuff as stars evolve according to a different pattern than elements that evolve from stars?

Very carefully I will tell you, no I didn't say this..

"stars spontaneously generate from nothing"

But I did say this...

"that elements do evolve"

Absolutely elements evolve from processes within stars and
when stars go super nova.
Also this....

""living" stuff which is made up of the same stuff as stars evolve according to a different pattern than elements that evolve from stars"

Is a word salad.

Everything is made from the elements that were created in stars.
Life is assembled from them. I do not know exactly how life assembled itself, but we do know it evolved "independently"
From all other processes.

Just Results

“Jesus is Love”

Since: Jul 12

Hutchinson, MN

#548866 Oct 10, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Not with numbers like those.
The factcheckers would bury you in your own bullshit.
The fact is, you are going to Hell. Once you're buried you'll find out I'm right.

You lie a lot, I've been keeping count.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#548867 Oct 10, 2012
RickBlaine wrote:
<quoted text>
So now your are arguing that elements do evolve? And stars spontaneously generate from nothing?And "living" stuff which is made up of the same stuff as stars evolve according to a different pattern than elements that evolve from stars?
Aura Mythra isn't Hidingfromyou.

Personally, I wouldn't use the word "evolve" with regards to atoms. So...no, he didn't change his claim, I didn't change mine, you're confusing us as if we were one person.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#548868 Oct 10, 2012
HFy isn't me either but this could explain the evolution of matter to you.

http://www.nikhef.nl/pub/theory/academiclectu...

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