Prove there's a god.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#529101 Aug 22, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
Hence there can be no omnipotent entity in this universe
E=MC^2
God is outside time and space . Not subject to Einstein's equation.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#529102 Aug 22, 2012
Ollyroo wrote:
<quoted text> Here's your problem. The moment you start saying that light as a wave is not matter opens up a can of worms. So light is both invisible and observable at the same time.
Nope that’s a old and superseded misconception of early attempts to describe the sub atomic domain and stating it now when knowledge is somewhat further advanced just opens up a whole can of misunderstanding.

Put simply, light is not visible, you can NEVER see light unaided just as you can never see heat or any radiation. What you see is the action of light striking matter. Try this simple experiment, in a dark clean room (do dust) turn on a torch and tell me if you can see the beam. You will be able to see anything the beam strikes but not the beam itself.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#529103 Aug 22, 2012
Nontheist wrote:
<quoted text>
George Albert Wells (born May 22, 1926), usually known as G. A. Wells, is an Emeritus Professor of German at Birkbeck, University of London. He is best known as an advocate of the idea that Jesus is a largely mythical rather than a historical figure.
He studied at the University of London and Bern, and holds degrees in German, philosophy, and natural science. He has taught German at London University since 1949, and has been Professor of German at Birkbeck College since 1968. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.A._Wells
Alvar Ellegård (November 12, 1919 – February 8, 2008) was a Swedish scholar and linguist. He was professor of English at the University of Gothenburg, and a member of the academic board of the Swedish National Encyclopedia.
He is the author of a number of books and papers on English language and linguistics, including A Statistical Method for Determining Authorship (1962).
His books about religion and science include Darwin and the General Reader (1958), The Myth of Jesus (1992), and Jesus: One Hundred Years Before Christ. A Study in Creative Mythology (1999).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvar_Elleg%C3%A...
Robert M. Price - BA, MTS (1978) PhD in Systematic Theology (1981)
PhD in New Testament (1993)
Price is a fellow of the Jesus Seminar, a group of 150 writers and scholars who study the historicity of Jesus, the organizer of a Web community for those interested in the history of Christianity, and sits on the advisory board of the Secular Student Alliance.He is a religious skeptic, especially of orthodox Christian beliefs, occasionally describing himself as a Christian atheist. He is known in particular for his skepticism about the existence of Jesus as an historical figure, arguing in 2009 that Jesus may have existed but "unless someone discovers his diary or his skeleton, we'll never know."
Richard Carrier - BA (History), MA (Ancient history), MPhil (Ancient history), PhD (Ancient history)
Carrier has written a number of polemics on the origins of Christianity and the historical figure of Jesus.This work has received critical reviews including those by Philosophy professor Stephen T. Davis in Philosophia Christi and Christian apologist Norman Geisler.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Carrier
Some proponents contend that Christianity emerged organically from Hellenistic Judaism and draws on perceived parallels between the biography of Jesus and those of Greek, Egyptian, and other gods, especially those figuring in myths about dying and rising deities. Attention to such parallels was heavily influenced by James Frazer's multi-volume work The Golden Bough; the parallels have even been acknowledged by Christian apologists such as C.S. Lewis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theo...
It is theory. There is no objective evidence Christianity borrowed from other beliefs. If you think there are then make your case. One at a time. I will show you where you are wrong. They ignore the differences.
Reality

Madison, WI

#529104 Aug 22, 2012
I need some clarification please.

Genesis

God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). 1:3-5

God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters. 1:6-8

Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11

In an apparent endorsement of astrology, God places the sun, moon, and stars in the firmament so that they can be used "for signs". This, of course, is exactly what astrologers do: read "the signs" in the Zodiac in an effort to predict what will happen on Earth. 1:14

"He made the stars also." God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars. 1:16

"And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth." 1:17

God commands us to "be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over ... every living thing that moveth upon the earth." 1:28

"I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat."
Since many plants have evolved poisons to protect against animals that would like to eat them, God's advice is more than a little reckless. Would you tell your children to go out in the garden and eat whatever plants they encounter? Of course not. But then, you are much nicer and smarter than God. 1:29

"He rested."
Even God gets tired sometimes. 2:2

"The tree of life ... and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."
God created two magic trees: the tree of life and the tree of knowledge. Eat from the first, and you live forever (3:22); eat from the second and you'll die the same day (2:17).(Or that's what God said, anyway. Adam ate from the tree of knowledge and lived for another 930 years or so (5:5). But he never got a chance to eat from the tree of life. God prevented him from eating from the tree of life before Adam could eat from the tree, become a god, and live forever.) 2:9

God makes the animals and parades them before Adam to see if any would strike his fancy. But none seem to have what it takes to please him.(Although he was tempted to go for the sheep.) After making the animals, God has Adam name them all. The naming of several million species must have kept Adam busy for a while. 2:18-20

God's clever, talking serpent. 3:1

God walks and talks (to himself?) in the garden, and plays a little hide and seek with Adam and Eve. 3:8-11

God curses the serpent. From now on the serpent will crawl on his belly and eat dust. One wonders how he got around before -- by hopping on his tail, perhaps? But snakes don't eat dust, do they? 3:14

God curses the ground and causes thorns and thistles to grow. 3:17-18

God kills some animals and makes some skin coats for Adam and Eve. 3:21

"Behold, the man is become as one of us."
God expels Adam and Eve from the garden before they get a chance to eat from that other tree -- the tree of life. God knows that if they do that, they well become "like one of us" and live forever. 3:22-24

Cain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents! 4:14

"And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD." 4:16

"And Cain knew his wife." That's nice, but where the hell did she come from? 4:17

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#529105 Aug 22, 2012
PSSdotCOM wrote:
<quoted text>
you're too smart,so i must say woww???my point is clear there is a God,simply as that ,you're the one who make it complicated,what you aim for?there is no God?you can just keep that for your self ;)
My point is you asked for proof that god does not exist and when you were given proof you did the typical christian incredulity thing.

Notice I did not ask which of the 3700+ known gods you were referring to, I simply assumed that you meant the bronze age god myth of the babble.

There is nothing complicated on knowing facts, it starts getting complicated when you have to distort those facts to fit a god shaped guess into them.

As for keeping it to myslef, PUBLIC thread, have you ever heard of the concept?

If you want to live a cloistered life then stick to church and don’t ask questions to which you don’t want an answer.
Reality

Madison, WI

#529106 Aug 22, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> God is outside time and space . Not subject to Einstein's equation.
Great come back. Next time just type this. " God works in mysterious ways"

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#529107 Aug 22, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> God is outside time and space . Not subject to Einstein's equation.
Proof please.

Oh wait a minute, sorry, you don’t have any.

It’s fine making excuses up as science progresses but what it boils down to is the simple fact that you have made up and excuse to suite your sensibilities
Ollyroo

Northmead, Australia

#529108 Aug 22, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Light is just a human description of a very narrow band width of energy.
Matter is matter, transformed from energy in the heart of dying stars.
Dictionary definition of omnipotence : having unlimited power.
Dictionary definition of unlimited : Not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent.
Omnipotence is therefore infinite energy,
Because matter exists and matter is transformed from energy there cannot therehfore be as much energy remaining. Even if energy were bigger than finite, which it wasn’t it can no longer be infinite because you exist and you are matter.u
Hence there can be no omnipotent entity in this universe
E=MC^2
"Matter is matter, transformed from energy in the heart of dying stars" ? Stars are matter, matter giving off energy in the form of charged particles, hence material. You cannot have your atoms before your energy, since energy is all there is. Matter is not a fundamental property of the Universe.
It is the form not the substance that shapes matter.
Matter=Energy, it cannot be interchanged.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#529109 Aug 22, 2012
Reality wrote:
I need some clarification please.
Genesis
God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). 1:3-5
God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters. 1:6-8
Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11
In an apparent endorsement of astrology, God places the sun, moon, and stars in the firmament so that they can be used "for signs". This, of course, is exactly what astrologers do: read "the signs" in the Zodiac in an effort to predict what will happen on Earth. 1:14
"He made the stars also." God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars. 1:16
"And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth." 1:17
God commands us to "be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over ... every living thing that moveth upon the earth." 1:28
"I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat."
Since many plants have evolved poisons to protect against animals that would like to eat them, God's advice is more than a little reckless. Would you tell your children to go out in the garden and eat whatever plants they encounter? Of course not. But then, you are much nicer and smarter than God. 1:29
"He rested."
Even God gets tired sometimes. 2:2
"The tree of life ... and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."
God created two magic trees: the tree of life and the tree of knowledge. Eat from the first, and you live forever (3:22); eat from the second and you'll die the same day (2:17).(Or that's what God said, anyway. Adam ate from the tree of knowledge and lived for another 930 years or so (5:5). But he never got a chance to eat from the tree of life. God prevented him from eating from the tree of life before Adam could eat from the tree, become a god, and live forever.) 2:9
God makes the animals and parades them before Adam to see if any would strike his fancy. But none seem to have what it takes to please him.(Although he was tempted to go for the sheep.) After making the animals, God has Adam name them all. The naming of several million species must have kept Adam busy for a while. 2:18-20
God's clever, talking serpent. 3:1
God walks and talks (to himself?) in the garden, and plays a little hide and seek with Adam and Eve. 3:8-11
God curses the serpent. From now on the serpent will crawl on his belly and eat dust. One wonders how he got around before -- by hopping on his tail, perhaps? But snakes don't eat dust, do they? 3:14
God curses the ground and causes thorns and thistles to grow. 3:17-18
God kills some animals and makes some skin coats for Adam and Eve. 3:21
"Behold, the man is become as one of us."
God expels Adam and Eve from the garden before they get a chance to eat from that other tree -- the tree of life. God knows that if they do that, they well become "like one of us" and live forever. 3:22-24
Cain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents! 4:14
"And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD." 4:16
"And Cain knew his wife." That's nice, but where the hell did she come from? 4:17
It’s magic, all magic and we are not meant to question it because we are all supposed to be deliberately ignorant and except a bronze age myth at the expense of knowledge and understanding

And just goes to show that no matter how much light christians want spreading the dark will always be there first.
Ollyroo

Northmead, Australia

#529110 Aug 22, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
It’s magic, all magic and we are not meant to question it because we are all supposed to be deliberately ignorant and except a bronze age myth at the expense of knowledge and understanding
And just goes to show that no matter how much light christians want spreading the dark will always be there first.
God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night.
Maybe this means separating the invisible dark light from a wave to a particle hence giving material light for our material world.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#529111 Aug 22, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Proof please.
Oh wait a minute, sorry, you don’t have any.
It is what historic Christianity has always taught well before Einstein's equation came along which basicially validates everything had a beginning which is what Genesis has always taught and which was contrary to what Science believed prior to the 20th century. They believed the Universe had no beginning.
It’s fine making excuses up as science progresses but what it boils down to is the simple fact that you have made up and excuse to suite your sensibilities
How long did it take Science to figure out life does not come out of dead matter? Maggots do not come out of rotted meat naturally? 200 years? Not impressive.
Reality

Madison, WI

#529112 Aug 22, 2012
Ollyroo wrote:
<quoted text> God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night.
Maybe this means separating the invisible dark light from a wave to a particle hence giving material light for our material world.
Say what, dude put down the beer and go to sleep.
Common Sense

Ottawa, Canada

#529113 Aug 22, 2012
Ollyroo wrote:
<quoted text> "Matter is matter, transformed from energy in the heart of dying stars" ? Stars are matter, matter giving off energy in the form of charged particles, hence material. You cannot have your atoms before your energy, since energy is all there is. Matter is not a fundamental property of the Universe.
It is the form not the substance that shapes matter.
Matter=Energy, it cannot be interchanged.
There is an energy-mass equivalence not an energy-matter equivalence.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#529114 Aug 22, 2012
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>Where did I say it only started doing that when humans labeled it the east? Call it whatever you like- the fact remains that it IS an ABSOLUTE TRUTH that the sun has always risen from the same direction. And I'M dumb???? LOL DUMBO!
Yes, you are dumb. You think Canada isn't in North America...

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#529115 Aug 22, 2012
Ollyroo wrote:
<quoted text> "Matter is matter, transformed from energy in the heart of dying stars" ? Stars are matter, matter giving off energy in the form of charged particles, hence material. You cannot have your atoms before your energy, since energy is all there is. Matter is not a fundamental property of the Universe.
It is the form not the substance that shapes matter.
Matter=Energy, it cannot be interchanged.
Methinks you need to do some research into the makeup of stars and how matter is formed.

Yes of course, star matter is mostly hydrogen, All hydrogen in this universe coalesced from the energy of the initial event that created this universe and is perhaps (although not definitively) the source of the event. A few hundred thousand years of that event the first (hydrogen only) stars were formed. Converting the hydrogen matter back to energy some were hot and fast burning and short lived, some are still burning some 13 billion years later (spectroscopic analyse shows this). As the hydrogen fuel ran out they expanded and then collapsed. It was the fission caused by the collapse of these 1st generation stars that created the next 5 elements to carbon. 2nd generation stars formed from the debris, which included these elements and the process continued and continues to this day. Nebula are the remnants/debris of a dying sun in which other suns are created, with good binoculars or a cheap telescope you can watch this process happening in the night sky. Each time collecting materials of higher atomic weight when on the stars extension is fused into heavier elements.

Atoms are matter, energy existed first.

Nuclear fission and nuclear fusion both produce energy from matter

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#529116 Aug 22, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Proof please.
Oh wait a minute, sorry, you don’t have any.
It’s fine making excuses up as science progresses but what it boils down to is the simple fact that you have made up and excuse to suite your sensibilities
Still stuck on stupid, I see. Or is is arrogance?

You really seem to think that God is subject to man's "laws of physics", huh?

Why?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#529117 Aug 22, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Light is just a human description of a very narrow band width of energy.
Matter is matter, transformed from energy in the heart of dying stars.
Dictionary definition of omnipotence : having unlimited power.
Dictionary definition of unlimited : Not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent.
Omnipotence is therefore infinite energy,
Because matter exists and matter is transformed from energy there cannot therefore be as much energy remaining. Even if energy were bigger than finite, which it wasn’t it can no longer be infinite because you exist and you are matter.
Hence there can be no omnipotent entity in this universe
E=MC^2
Definition of God:
&#8194; &#8194;
noun

the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

( lowercase ) one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.

So.......... How is He stuck to E=MC2 again? lol, you're being silly.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#529118 Aug 22, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>

Atoms are matter, energy existed first.
Methinks you're a follower...

Remember when your precious science thought the atom was the smallest thing that could ever exist?

lol, other scientists proved that wrong, huh?

Don't blindly follow something because some scientist somewhere did a study on something that proved something. According to scientific history, they're probably wrong.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#529119 Aug 22, 2012
Ollyroo wrote:
<quoted text> God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night.
Maybe this means separating the invisible dark light from a wave to a particle hence giving material light for our material world.
You are welcome to believe what it says in your bronze age myth book that used the technology of the time.

I am not particularly interested in interpretation and what you think someone a few thousand years ago meant.

Me I’ll stick to proven facts thank you.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#529120 Aug 22, 2012
God, who is Infinite has to abide by the laws of Physics. if God does not abide then He does not exist. Foregone conclusions and arguing in circles.

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