“The eye has it...”

Since: Jan 12

Russell's teapot.

#527970 Aug 18, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
Neitzsche is in your camp. As is Stalin. As is Mao. Pagan Greece and Rome were built almost entirely by slave labor. No country on Earth questioned to morality of slavery until Christians did the questioning. Approx 1/3 of Roman society was made up of slaves who could be killed any time by their Roman masters. Heres another little fun fact as it relates to your pagan counterparts.''Socrates and Plato could sit around in symposia, drinking wine and discussing the essence of justice, largely becuase the civilization was maintained by an unimaginable number of slaves.'' They were so backwards they thought it a good thing to marry their sisters and use children as sex slaves.
Slavery was and is a problem to this day. It was outlined in the OT and Judaism concerning the treatment of slaves.

Also, to say that it is to the sole credit of Christianity in abolishing slavery is not accurate and a stretch. It was a combination of many factors, not attributable to Christianity alone.

We can't forget that only in 19th century, did the morality of slavery begin to be scrutinized and considered as wrong.

I tend to think that much of the awareness that was realized concerning the immorality of slavery was due to the world, at that point in time, being pretty much accessible in all areas and regions.

Humanity in general finally had the chance to look at itself collectively, and saw that it didn't present a good picture in how we treated each other - globally.

That's my opinion. I'm open to discuss it further if you'd like, however.
lightbeamrider wrote:
A boatload. Not everyone is correct. When it comes to Christ my only hope is those foolish enough to listen to you will find you in hell as i'm sure you will be hiding out if you can.
There it is.
lightbeamrider wrote:
I will get to the Matthew 24 part later. Day off.
I look forward to it.

Have a good day. Truly.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#527975 Aug 18, 2012
Brother Marine wrote:
<quoted text>
Well yes for you it would be uncomfortable, but only because you don't WANT God to exist. And not every strange occurrence is explained as "God did it."
<quoted text>
If the brain isn't functioning, there is NO subconciousness. Yet somehow, these events do happen and are "remembered" accurately. If this is the case, then there must be another manner in which some memories are stored in the human experience. As I stated, you're arguing from an emotional basis. You DON'T want this to be true. If it were true, you would have to re-think and reevaluate every presupposition and misconception you've ever had, and that's just too much to bear.
I'll be honest and say I DO hope that they're true, but only because I want to see a hardcore atheist capitulate and choke on his humanistic pride while on bended knee.
Yeah, yeah, I know it won't happen here. But it will happen.:)
<quoted text>
You'll need to do better than that Tide. Why can't these THOUSANDS of cases with common characteristics be taken seriously? What inside knowledge do you have that suggests they "can't"? Yes traumatic events do trigger unusual brain activities, but not when ALL brain activity has stopped. The word "trigger" speaks of cause and effect. In the specific case I mentioned, if Ms. Reynolds' brain was stopped and drained of blood, how can there be any brain activity to trigger "unusual brain activity"? There can't be any. There would have to be perception of trauma first, even if only subconsciously. We know that subconsciousness is a brain function right? The EEG was showing NO brain activity. The EEG is a remarkable and highly accurate piece of scientific and technological equipment; yes? It requires calibration, regular scheduled maintenance, and features self-testing capabilities that must pass before it's used on a patient. Are you telling me that this particular EEG was faulty and yet was still used on this one occasion? This one occasion in which an NDE reportedly occurred? Sounds like you're seriously reaching for straws here. And before you come back with all kinds of presuppositional data about NDEs, check out this site from a man who is probably the foremost expert on NDEs in the world today:
http://www.nderf.org
Dr Jeff Long is an Oncologist (cancer specialist) and has created a method for determining the likelihood of NDEs in patients who report them, including measures to "red-flag" and eliminate fraudulent reports.
BM, I missed part of the discussion about NDEs, I think, but it has been established in several different venues that NDEs can be explained in a completely natural way, without anything supernatural having to be involved.

I will not be so presumptuous as to suggest that all NDEs, that have ever occurred, were due to the same factors as those artificially (by artificial I mean on purpose rather than just something that someone experienced that was unexpected) produced in a lab, or in training astronauts, but the fact that the experiences are almost identical to those that were produced on purpose does tend to lend a bit of credibility to the possibility that all NDEs are actually natural experiences having nothing to do with the afterlife, or God.

I think to be accepted as supernatural an event has to be one that cannot have any possibility of happening naturally. I guess the very fact that all NDEs that are reported had to have been reported by people who lived to tell about them, does tend to indicate that death had not occurred.

I think it is commonly accepted that people can appear to be dead, and not dead, and do regain consciousness, and live afterward, but when a person is actually dead, they do not return to life.

I will not include Jesus in that statement, in order that this does not become an issue of belief. I am referring only to recent NDEs.

“The eye has it...”

Since: Jan 12

Russell's teapot.

#527977 Aug 18, 2012
YELLODOG wrote:
<quoted text>
talk about your SKEPTICS.
Lev and Numbers are a part of the first 5 books of the Mosanic law,
the Law of Moses.
i WOULD encourage you to ck out the many authentic archaeology dictionarys and reference books available that are detailed in percise information and location of biblical artifacts.
There are other myths and stories from antiquity with fantasy elements that mention reality based elements as well.

Many elements within mythology can be connected to actual persons, cultures, historical places, and at times historical events.

Consider the Minotaur. Born of a union between Pasiphaë and the Cretan bull that was given by Poseidon.

The Minotaur is a famous and supernatural creature of myth.

The Palace of Knossos at Crete is an actual known of and verified place, associated with the myth of the Minotaur.

That does not make Pasiphaë that birthed the Minotaur, the Minotaur, the Cretan bull, nor Poseidon real.

Theologians study their religious texts and think that by connecting actual historical places, verifiable events, and real elements mentioned in the myth they believe in, also validates the never verified and never proved supernatural components found in the myth and that somehow confirms their myth based religious beliefs are a literal truth and an absolute reality.

They present those correlations and anything else no matter how biased or insubstantial it may be, claim that as proof to their fellow theists who also believe in the myth and say; "I have found legitimate unbiased evidence and proof of our deity, our belief is real!"

The existence of a city or feature of geography and other such elements common in fiction, myth and fantasy does not make that fantasy or mythic fiction, real.
YELLODOG wrote:
there is no future in scoffing.
It's a well established fact that the future found in ignorance is bleak and without merit. You might want to consider that.

Or not.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#527979 Aug 18, 2012
Jedi Mind Trickers wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, I never made any erroneous assumption that he never has a drink. I would never made that assumption, as I would not assume that Christians don't sin since they do. What I simply do, is state what God instructs us to do. If we don't do it, that is a human thing, not a Christian thing.
You and most of your group tend to confuse Christian behavior and human behavior, sin is a human behavior not a Christian one. A gay priest is engage in three sins, if he is having sex with a same sex child, none of which are Christian behaviors.
Does that also pertain to your deity(christian behavior vs. human behavior)?

And please define your perception of "sin" for us all.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#527980 Aug 18, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I accept your apology.
Don't do it again.
.. and, if I do, whatcha gonna do ??..

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#527981 Aug 18, 2012
Is a non-believer a drunk driver?

For such an analogy to relate, the state of drunkenness (danger of Hell) must be invisible. We must not be able to detect it. The driver isn't driving dangerously, they aren't slurring their words, and they register nothing on a breathalyzer test. Is it okay to pull people over and arrest them for drunk driving simply because you believe they are drunk? No.

Christians claim that non-believers are in danger, but there is nothing to suggest that there is any danger. Any analogy must reflect the reality that the danger is imperceptible.

“The eye has it...”

Since: Jan 12

Russell's teapot.

#527983 Aug 18, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
There's a guy in Washington who does research on NDE as experienced by children. He has just been arrested, for experimenting with his 11-year-old stepdaughter. He was apparently waterboarding her to produce the NDE.
He has appeared on "Larry King Live" and the "The Oprah Winfrey Show" to discuss his research on out-of-body experiences. His Web site, http://spiritualscientific.com , is strewn with commentary about God, love, family and death.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57493253/...

<shakes head> NDE's...

If I believed in an afterlife, I'd volunteer for the most dangerous jobs, trying to speed things up. Pray to the Jesus or whatever deity, supernatural force etc., that I thought granted that, and subdue the bear, the terrorist, or jump in the burning building.

I wouldn't experiment on my child hoping that she'd survive and relate a hallucination and then feel as if that somehow confirmed my belief in NDE's or an afterlife...

Since: May 11

Cardiff, UK

#527984 Aug 18, 2012
Jedi Mind Trickers wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, that is not true. A man who has sex with another human being who possesses a penis regardless of what they are wearing is not necessarily bisexual if they also have sex with women.
There are two circumstances:
1) Men who are on the down low or in the closet.
2) The second is drug induced or Hollywood thrill seeking, which includes perversion.
Consider the second, I could show you men who look better than and more like women than women do. You would do one of three things, reject the idea of the penis, like me; or be moved by the physical attractions; or the whole perverse idea of having sex with a woman but it is a man.
Answer this: What are transsexual MTF pre-op, who have sex with a gay men? Is he gay or straight, and is the gay man straight or gay.
Okay, got your answer, so what are they after the MTF is post-op and they are having sex.
If you answer changes, then you believe that homosexuality is a choice. If your answer does not change, you still believe that homosexuality is a choice.
Yes, this is a trick question, and I heard two gay men interviewed explain the answer and I agree, but it goes beyond.
A man who has sex with other men is gay, a male homo sexual. A woman who has sex with women is a lesbian, a female homosexual. A man or woman who has sex with members of the opposite sex is heterosexual. If the previously stated proclivities are adhered to then they are what is now known as ‘monosexuals’ meaning they exclusively have sex with one gender. Any dalliance from this would make them bi-sexual meaning they have sex with their own gender and the opposite gender.

Men who are ‘on the down low’ are bisexual, those who have increased drug fuelled libido have their behaviour chemically modified and will screw a knot hole in a fence simply to obtain a release.

I recently watched a documentary regarding transsexuals in Thailand and I can honestly say that in terms of aesthetics many of them were very beautiful and they were physically and mentally women in almost every way. Would they put themselves through everything they do by choice? I think not. Would I have a physical relationship with one of them if I was in full possession of the facts, I would have to say no.

Gay men are apparently notoriously resentful of transsexuals and transsexuals are apparently repulsed by gay men preferring the ‘hyper-masculine’, so in the unlikely event that a gay man had sex with a post operative transsexual who was all female then I would say that as he had demonstrated attraction to feminine attributes so he was probably bisexual. Can a post operative transexual be homosexual or bisexual in terms of their newly assigned gender?...probably.

What does your bible say regarding those possessing of both male and female genitalia? Do they pick a gender and stick to it? My trick question to you.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#527985 Aug 18, 2012
Nontheist wrote:
<quoted text>
Slavery was and is a problem to this day. It was outlined in the OT and Judaism concerning the treatment of slaves.
Hebrew slavery was far more passionate than its pagan counterpart. For once thing they did not make sex slaves out of children. The slaves were prisoners of wars. It was more humane way to treat the conquered as opposed to wholesale slaughter. Slavery is depicted in Scripture as a reconnition as a world reality and not the ideal. Like divorce. It was not part of the original plan.

''If an Israelite saw a beautiful woman amoung captive prisoners of war, he was permitted to take her into his house.'' She was given a month to morn. At the end of that time the Israelite could have sex with her but if he did then she became his wife, not a slave.[Dt.21:13] If he decided to divorce her later she left a free woman. Over and over again Scripture insists slaves or servants should not be mistreated because they were slaves in Egypt. This and more is totally different from the other forms of slavery practiced in the ancient world. Exodus 21:20 indicates killing a slave is the same as killing a free person. Death. Totally different from their pagan counterparts in which they could kill their slaves at any time.
Also, to say that it is to the sole credit of Christianity in abolishing slavery is not accurate and a stretch. It was a combination of many factors, not attributable to Christianity alone.
Slavery was first abolished in Christian Europe.
We can't forget that only in 19th century, did the morality of slavery begin to be scrutinized and considered as wrong.
Slavery which involves kidnapping is addressed in the New Testament. 1 Tim. 1:10. Christians were writing against slavery far before the 19th century.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#527987 Aug 18, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Top Ten Signs You Are An Atheist
10. You vigorously deny the existence of God, yet you frequently blame Him for all the "evils" in the world, all the natural disasters, and everything else under the sun that is wrong in modern society.
9. You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when creationists say that people were created in the image and likeness of God, but you have no problem with the evolutionist claim that we all evolved from slime by a cosmic accident.
8. You criticize fundamental Christians who believe the Bible, and say that it can't possibly be true because it's just a book written by mere men, yet you never question any of Darwin's writings or Richard Dawkins' books.
7. You can't seem to understand the primary differences between fundamental Muslims and fundamental Christians (hint: strap-on TNT. Plus - Muhammad says,“kill innocent people and yourself if you love me.” Jesus Christ said,“I’ll die for you because I love you”).
6. You say the Bible is full of fairytales and fables, yet you believe all life forms including plants, trees, insects, birds, fish, reptiles and mammals evolved from one species into another - As if evolution isn’t the biggest fairytale of them all.
5. You laugh at the Supernatural, even though scientists have calculated the odds of life forming by natural processes to be estimated less than 1 chance in 10 to the 40,ooo power – But you find nothing wrong with believing that billions of years full of random mutations would result in the impossible.
4. You accuse fundamental Christians of being intolerant, judgmental and hateful, while you foam at the mouth calling them freaking lunatics, ignorant, weak-minded, stupid fundies, and hateful bigots.
3. You ignore scientific concepts like cause and effect, and you don't realize that a closed system can be defined however the observer wants, so you throw out technological phrases to try to ignore the implications of thermodynamics by saying the laws of physics are not set in stone.
2. While all evidence, logic and reasoning point to a Creator and absolute truth, you prefer to hide behind relativism and a theory of evolution which does not, in fact, describe the creation of the universe at all, or why concepts of good and evil or morality exist.
1. Atheism fails to adequately explain the existence of eternal, unchanging truths, for it rejects the existence of an eternal unchanging mind. Atheism cannot offer man any eternal significance whatsoever. Temporary meaning in life is insufficient, for our accomplishments die with the death of the universe -- there is no ultimate purpose in a universe void of God.
RR, none of those apply to the term 'atheist'. You are making assumptions about what an atheist believes about those things you mentioned, based on only what you do know about him, and that is he has no belief in a deity. That tells you nothing at all about any of those things you mentioned.

I realize you were only feeding back what the other had posted, but his post was accurate, whereas your is not, and that doesn't mean there is a god or there isn't a god.

You just can't make those statements about atheists, as a group.

I noted though you did manage to stick in some anti-Muslim bigotry there.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#527988 Aug 18, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow.
Like, wow.
That's much more harsh than what I hear from the JWs who come to my door!!
They have a more kind and gentle approach.
Maybe they have more confidence.
I think they just know that an aggressive approach will never get them in the door.

“I am who I am”

Since: Jun 11

Upstate NY

#527989 Aug 18, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
You're equating not believing to drunk driving.
I'd appreciate it if you'd just stop using analogies. You are TERRIBLE at it.
Not at all. I'm good at analogies. You just don't like my analogies. IMO that's what atheism is. It's like drunk driving. You get behind the wheel, deluded into thinking that everything is fine as long as you're in the driver's seat. That's my viewpoint of it. Are you telling me that you don't feel the same about us theists? Don't you say we're deluded? We say you are deluded. The only thing in common is our use of the word "deluded." We point the finger at you, while you point the finger at us.

Since: May 11

Cardiff, UK

#527990 Aug 18, 2012
Gray_Box wrote:
<quoted text>I could not help but notice that you called Brother Marine by BM and you did not keep repeating it. So, shall we call you a manipulator and have you admit that you do know how to call yellodog by "YD" instead of by her personal real name, which violates TOS.
Hi, I'm Julian, JP to my friends. Feel free to use my given name, I received it in christian baptism when I was too young to consent to joining that particular club.

Get a grip, the woman stated her real name, she put everything known about her in the public domain. Her stupidity is of a magnitude only a god could grant.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#527991 Aug 18, 2012
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. and, if I do, whatcha gonna do ??..
Take you off his christmas card list? Take away your birthday? I was wondering what that was all about? Not that it matters. Thought it might be an inside joke but came across as......well weird.

“I am who I am”

Since: Jun 11

Upstate NY

#527992 Aug 18, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
Christians claim that non-believers are in danger, but there is nothing to suggest that there is any danger. Any analogy must reflect the reality that the danger is imperceptible.
The drunk driver never sees the danger, because he himself IS the danger. If he could see it and understand it, he wouldn't do it.
So it is with atheism.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#527993 Aug 18, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
Part 5
Manipulation in religion is usually carried without the manipulator being totally aware of it, if they are aware at all. They may simply think they are being better witnesses of their faith, if their manipulations are successful. Some are so ignorant about manipulation, they use very obvious techniques, which happen to work on other ignorant people. I don't know what's worse, having these people go around conning people as robots, or having them do it while knowing they are conning people. The end result is pretty much the same. Correcting the problem is harder though, because the robots aren't doing something they know is wrong.
The very best manipulators become preachers, in most cases. That is to say, to be a good preacher, one that continues to have work, you must be a good manipulator. The tool set is similar to a con artist or a prostitute. A humble and considerate person, who never tries to force anyone to think the way that they do, would be a terrible preacher.
TBC
.. thanks for your thoughts. That took courage ..

.. the same phenomena that has people flying into buildings happens within many Christian religions - manipulation of the mind ..

.. only education and fortitude can change the pattern. Unfortunately, when the mind has been utterly brainwashed, it's difficult to look logically at your own belief system ....

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#527996 Aug 18, 2012
Jedi Mind Trickers wrote:
<quoted text>You see, this is where we become afflicted. I prayed and sat with God on this issue. It was time for our first black president. I did not think he was the one, due to abortion and same sex marriage, and his social non-capitalist philosophy. I made an agreement with God, I would campaign like heck to stop same sex marriage and we would work on fixing the presidency after Obama became president.
Well, it was Bill Clinton who destroyed this country, Obama just kept pushing. In 1999, Clinton repealed the Glass-Steagall Act, which led to our economic collapse in 2008 and the trillion dollar bail out.
Actually, you need to take a closer look at the priest scandal, it was a Gay Pedophile priest scandal and the church did seek to out them and expel them The church got heat from the IGLA-gays, media and our government. They did not want it known that the abuse was predominately a gay issue. They feared hate crimes against gays.
Perhaps it is YOU who needs to take a "closer" look at the "priest scandal".

It has been going on since the inception of the church(over 1500 years). There have been edicts in it's regard since it's beginning by the papacy that are public(dated) record.

The "church never tried to "out" nor "expel" any of them...just move them around to other parishes and place them in other positions that were less available to the general public for scrutiny.

It has taken years and years to counter the deception of these supposed "holy" men and their superiors(all the way up to the pope), but since the multitude of the atrocities has been exposed, the church has no option but admit their incompetence and carelessness in the matter, and pay the price for their actions.

The only thing the church fears is the loss of billions and billions of dollars in restitution, decay of membership, the possibility that their assets will deplete or even vanish, and their credibility among the world will be destroyed (along with it their dominance).

“I am who I am”

Since: Jun 11

Upstate NY

#527997 Aug 18, 2012
Jedi Mind Trickers wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, I disagree. I am allied with most because they are brothers and sisters in Christ. If I pull at a Christian, it is because I think they are moving away from Christ. I may be wrong, but that is what I believe. I love all my born-again brothers and sisters in Christ, our spirits are one.
Well yes that's mostly true, but I was speaking of those moments when we can't see past the proverbial "heat of battle." In those times, many people revert to the old Arabic [?] proverb of:

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend." I can admit to being guilty of that particular offense.

“The eye has it...”

Since: Jan 12

Russell's teapot.

#527998 Aug 18, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I just died and floated over Brother Marine's house.
You'll never guess what I saw.
Nano! In his pool! Nekked!
I just flashed and got this image of a movie that should never be made.

It involves elements from Cujo, Jaws, and vampires.



You'll never swim again... You'll never unlock your doors again... You'll never go outside at night again...






FANGINA!

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#527999 Aug 18, 2012
Nontheist wrote:
<quoted text>
I look forward to it.
Have a good day. Truly.
Matthew 24 is incidental to the resurrection for starters. If you do not believe the resurrection then Matthew 24, virgin birth etc are all called into question. That is why i believe Ehrman is unoriginal and decpetive when he staes he lost faith in Christ on account of Matthew 24. I don't have time now but will get back to it tonite. Obviously much has to do with the fall of Jerusalem. They did not always record things in chronological order in ancient writings. It comes across to the modern reader as messy.

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