Prove there's a god.
eternalrock

Denver, CO

#522590 Jul 31, 2012
Real people living with humans are like humans living with toons in the movie Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#522591 Jul 31, 2012
Brother Marine wrote:
<quoted text>
They were told not to.
Naive teenagers don't know enough to avoid drinking and driving until they are told otherwise. Even then they don't always listen.
If an omniscient, omnipotent creator made them that way, if he wanted them to be different, he would have made them different.(Regards Wolfgang Von Goethe)
eternalrock

Denver, CO

#522592 Jul 31, 2012
Roger Rabbit does the killing but he was framed because he is under puppet control.
Persephone

London, UK

#522593 Jul 31, 2012
Kunyuk wrote:
<quoted text>
The Messiah is Prophet Muhammad.
All describing by Jesus mean to this Honour person.
Muhammad was also a filthy little child rapist.

Since: May 11

Cardiff, UK

#522594 Jul 31, 2012
Cali0 wrote:
You don't have to be mean about it ..:P
couldn't find the local priest at this late hour, apparently he's at the casino or the happy endings massage parlour...

oh well, back to atheism it is then.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#522595 Jul 31, 2012
MisterCharrington wrote:
<quoted text>
couldn't find the local priest at this late hour, apparently he's at the casino or the happy endings massage parlour...
oh well, back to atheism it is then.
I found him .... he's having a sleep over with a boy scout troop.

Since: May 11

Cardiff, UK

#522596 Jul 31, 2012
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I found him .... he's having a sleep over with a boy scout troop.
why worry, couple of hail mary's and he'll be a new man in the morning.

completely rehabilitated.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#522597 Jul 31, 2012
MisterCharrington wrote:
<quoted text>
why worry, couple of hail mary's and he'll be a new man in the morning.
completely rehabilitated.
Dang! He's doing Mary too?

“Spelin 'n' tpyin...”

Since: Feb 08

...are my strong suits!

#522598 Jul 31, 2012
Brother Marine wrote:
<quoted text>
They were told not to.
Naive teenagers don't know enough to avoid drinking and driving until they are told otherwise. Even then they don't always listen.
I get that.

However, telling someone something is wrong is pointless if they don't have a conceptual understanding of right vs wrong.

In my experience, it isn't just teenagers, naive or otherwise... that drink and drive. IMO, it isn't that they don't know enough to avoid it. By the time they start driving, they've been told and they know it's wrong, in as far as the definition applies.

They don't care, and once inebriated, care less.

In your example...

Naive teenagers represent Adam and Eve.
A car represents paradise.
Alcohol represents the Tree of Knowledge.
Drinking and driving represent eating of the tree.
Being told not to represents, well, being told not to.

Sooo...

God tells Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree, knowing full well they would anyway. Then he punishes them for it.

That's kinda like giving kids keys to a Corvette with a cooler of cold brew stuffed behind the seats. Then, when the parents get a 2 a.m. call from the police, they say,“Yes, we gave the kids the beer... but, we did what we were supposed to and told them not to drink any.”

Who's at fault?
ROCCO

Palm Springs, CA

#522599 Jul 31, 2012
Nontheist wrote:
<quoted text>
"The ark is also built around a steel frame."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/01/noah...
Not ticked off, merely amused.
It remains docked. In Holland. No gold for the repro.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/world/europe/jo...

Huibers initially wanted to sail his ark to London for the Olympics to share his message with sports fans. But he was forced to abandon his plan to sail across the North Sea after authorities raised safety issues.

Weighing about 3,000 tons, the boat contains sleeping quarters, a theater, restaurant and conference facilities to seat 1,500 people.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvv

Anyone recall where the bible described the ark having a "theater, a restaurant and - conference facilities - to seat 1500"? After all, weren't there only 8 (eight) people left alive at the time?



And plastic flamingos?
ROCCO

Palm Springs, CA

#522600 Jul 31, 2012
Common Sense wrote:
<quoted text>
You have been told, several times!
Do you really need to be told once more?
Keep your primitive thinking to yourself!
If you have so much disregard for science and technology, turn off your computer and go and live in an amish community or a nunnery.
Guess what, even the amish and other so-called ultrareligious communities are making use of science and technology.
We fail to remember that Patty doesn't retain anything except water.
christianity is EVIL

Edmonton, Canada

#522601 Jul 31, 2012
Cali0 wrote:
What ever , who ever judged me clueless obviously doesn't have the balls to defend god isn't real :P
www.evilbible.com/Impossible.htm

or did you have another god in mind

www.godchecker.com
christianity is EVIL

Edmonton, Canada

#522602 Jul 31, 2012
YELLODOG wrote:
<quoted text>
big bang? HAHAHAHAHA
tell me what caused the explosion?
and then tell me how an explosion caused from NOTHINGNESS....
could generate intelligent DESIGNED life?
/QUOTE

why bother,you dont care about reality..
Common Sense

Ottawa, Canada

#522603 Jul 31, 2012
ROCCO wrote:
<quoted text>
We fail to remember that Patty doesn't retain anything except water.
... and that might be pure speculation.

“The eye has it...”

Since: Jan 12

Russell's teapot.

#522604 Jul 31, 2012
ROCCO wrote:
<quoted text>
It remains docked. In Holland. No gold for the repro.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/world/europe/jo...
Huibers initially wanted to sail his ark to London for the Olympics to share his message with sports fans. But he was forced to abandon his plan to sail across the North Sea after authorities raised safety issues.
Weighing about 3,000 tons, the boat contains sleeping quarters, a theater, restaurant and conference facilities to seat 1,500 people.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvv
Anyone recall where the bible described the ark having a "theater, a restaurant and - conference facilities - to seat 1500"? After all, weren't there only 8 (eight) people left alive at the time?
And plastic flamingos?
Yeah, this is some info about the half sized ark the man built.
http://www.pbase.com/paulthedane/noahs_ark

I was in a discussion with a theist about the impossibilty of the ark and that one came up. The theist also claimed it(full sized ark) would have easily held all of the dinosaurs, too...

I don't recall where, it can be searched, but I seem to recall the half sized ark was so unseaworthy it had to be continuously pumped just to stay afloat.
christianity is EVIL

Edmonton, Canada

#522605 Jul 31, 2012
Reality Check wrote:
Where was God?
God here. I thought I would take the time to personally explain my absence in the Aurora shootings. While I was at it, I thought I would also explain my absence during every murder, massacre and crime that has ever taken place in World history, and in every war, in every famine, drought and flood.
You see, I do not exist. I never have. Did it really make sense to you that I would create an entire Universe with billions of billions of planets and wait about 13,700,000,000 years just so I could focus on a few Jews from Palestine about 2,000 years ago while ignoring the rest of the 200,000,000 people on the planet at the time?
well yeah,arent they the Chosen ones? LOL

“I am who I am”

Since: Jun 11

Upstate NY

#522606 Jul 31, 2012
Hukt on Fonix wrote:
<quoted text>
I get that.
However, telling someone something is wrong is pointless if they don't have a conceptual understanding of right vs wrong.
In my experience, it isn't just teenagers, naive or otherwise... that drink and drive. IMO, it isn't that they don't know enough to avoid it. By the time they start driving, they've been told and they know it's wrong, in as far as the definition applies.
They don't care, and once inebriated, care less.
In your example...
Naive teenagers represent Adam and Eve.
A car represents paradise.
Alcohol represents the Tree of Knowledge.
Drinking and driving represent eating of the tree.
Being told not to represents, well, being told not to.
Sooo...
God tells Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree, knowing full well they would anyway. Then he punishes them for it.
That's kinda like giving kids keys to a Corvette with a cooler of cold brew stuffed behind the seats. Then, when the parents get a 2 a.m. call from the police, they say,“Yes, we gave the kids the beer... but, we did what we were supposed to and told them not to drink any.”
Who's at fault?
That's a point of contention:

Once God told them not to, and what the consequences would be,(death), it was up to them to decide their course of action.
Also, there's a common misconception about the nature of omniscience. Omniscience doesn't necessarily mean knowing every future move as if clairvoyant. It also means awareness of all possible outcomes. As a parent, I can observe my children as they play, and because I know their habits and attitudes, I can correctly state what their most likely course of action is. Of course there's a small probability of being wrong, but I'm not interested in absolutes in this context. I know that 98% of the time I'll be correct about what they will do next, so the occasional 2% that I'm not correct is of very little consequence, and in no way nullifies my overall accuracy regarding the predictions of the actions of my kids. Same concept applies to God. We don't have the luxury of defining His omniscience to our liking.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#522607 Jul 31, 2012
Brother Marine wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a point of contention:

Also, there's a common misconception about the nature of omniscience. Omniscience doesn't necessarily mean knowing every future move as if clairvoyant. It also means awareness of all possible outcomes. As a parent, I can observe my children as they play, and because I know their habits and attitudes, I can correctly state what their most likely course of action is. Of course there's a small probability of being wrong, but I'm not interested in absolutes in this context. I know that 98% of the time I'll be correct about what they will do next, so the occasional 2% that I'm not correct is of very little consequence, and in no way nullifies my overall accuracy regarding the predictions of the actions of my kids. Same concept applies to God. We don't have the luxury of defining His omniscience to our liking.
That's a spin, Brother Marine.

Look up the definitions of omniscience; in dictionaries, wikipedia, wherever you want. You'll see that omniscience is having COMPLETE knowledge; knowing everything there is to know.

98% just won't cut it. It's not a matter of "very little consequence." It's all or nothing. Being 98% omniscient is like being 98% pregnant. It's not a prediction based on familiarity with others' conduct, as in your analogy to your children.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#522608 Jul 31, 2012
Brother Marine wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a point of contention:
Once God told them not to, and what the consequences would be,(death), it was up to them to decide their course of action.
Also, there's a common misconception about the nature of omniscience. Omniscience doesn't necessarily mean knowing every future move as if clairvoyant. It also means awareness of all possible outcomes. As a parent, I can observe my children as they play, and because I know their habits and attitudes, I can correctly state what their most likely course of action is. Of course there's a small probability of being wrong, but I'm not interested in absolutes in this context. I know that 98% of the time I'll be correct about what they will do next, so the occasional 2% that I'm not correct is of very little consequence, and in no way nullifies my overall accuracy regarding the predictions of the actions of my kids. Same concept applies to God. We don't have the luxury of defining His omniscience to our liking.
Etymology

From Medieval Latin omniscientia (“all-knowledge”), from Latin omni-(“all”), and scient from the Latin scientia (“knowledge”).

[edit] Noun

omniscience (uncountable)
1.The capacity to know everything
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/omniscience

“Spelin 'n' tpyin...”

Since: Feb 08

...are my strong suits!

#522609 Jul 31, 2012
Brother Marine wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a point of contention:
Once God told them not to, and what the consequences would be,(death), it was up to them to decide their course of action.
Also, there's a common misconception about the nature of omniscience. Omniscience doesn't necessarily mean knowing every future move as if clairvoyant. It also means awareness of all possible outcomes. As a parent, I can observe my children as they play, and because I know their habits and attitudes, I can correctly state what their most likely course of action is. Of course there's a small probability of being wrong, but I'm not interested in absolutes in this context. I know that 98% of the time I'll be correct about what they will do next, so the occasional 2% that I'm not correct is of very little consequence, and in no way nullifies my overall accuracy regarding the predictions of the actions of my kids. Same concept applies to God. We don't have the luxury of defining His omniscience to our liking.
The word “knowledge” in the phrase “Tree of Knowledge” does not refer to general knowledge... correct?

Rather, it refers to specific knowledge of what's morally right/wrong... correct?

So, did Adam and Eve intentionally perpetrate an immoral act in eating from the tree after being told not to?

How could they? They had yet to learn the difference between what's morally right and wrong.

RE: Omniscience.

There's no misconception. The word literally means “all knowing”.

The quality of omniscience either applies to your god or it doesn't.

Gonna make up some crap now...

What if Adam an Eve obeyed Big-G and refrained from eating of the Tree of Knowledge?

They would never have been expelled from paradise and would be alive till this day... without morals, still happily oblivious to the difference between right and wrong.

And...

We wouldn't be here... because your god was obeyed.

Seems to me, if anyone deserves our reverence and thanks, it would be Adam and Eve... for their disobedience.

I personally see it as a good thing (for us).

But what do I really know about right and wrong?

I've never ate from that fuggin tree.

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