Jesus really did exist
Posted in the Top Stories Forum
#1 Apr 30, 2010
A second-century theologian, Justin Martyr, wrote,Now there is a village in the land of the Jews, 35 stadia from Jerusalem, in which Christ was born, as you can ascertain also from the registries of the taxing under Cyrenius your first procurator in Judea(First Apology, chapter 34).
Martyr was referring to the RECORDS OF JESUS' BIRTH IN JUDEA THAT WERE STILL IN EXISTENCE IN HIS DAY.
Cornelius Tacitus, a Roman historian, senator, consul and governor of the province of Asia and a man who WAS AGAINST CHRISTIANS (so why would he want to confirm the existance of Jesus?) wrote about Jesus and His followers,Nero punished with every refinement the notoriously depraved Christians (as they were popularly called). Their originator, Christ, had been executed in Tiberius reign by the governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate. But in spite of this temporary setback, the deadly superstition had broken out afresh, not only in Judea (where this mischief had started) but even in Rome(The Annals of Imperial Rome, XV, 44).
In his book Antiquities of the Jews, JEWISH HISTORIAN FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS WRITES ABOUT JESUS, His disciples and John the Baptist. He referred to John as the good man(XVIII, 5, 2). Modern-day scholars recognize Josephus account of the death of James,the brother of Jesus who was called Christ(XX, 9, 1), as genuine.
RECORDED IN THE TALMUD
In Sanhedrin 43a, reference to Jesus is found. "On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried,'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf. But since nothing was brought forward in his favor, he was hanged on the eve of the Passover."If Jesus had been stoned, his death would have been at the hands of the Jews. The fact he was crucified shows that the Romans intervened.
Other Talmud references to Jesus indicated that Jesus was "treated differently from others who led the people astray, for he was connected with royalty." These Talmud accounts were written long before the New Testament was assembled. THEY PROVIDE CLEAR EVIDENCE THAT JESUS DID LIVE. THE TALMUD DOES NOT EMBRACE CHRIST AS A DEITY AND WOULD HAVE NO REASON TO SANCTION HIS EXISTENCE. The Talmud also states that Jesus was 33 or 34 years old when he died.
These documenst proved that a PERSON named Jesus existed. They DON'T PROVE THAT HE'S GOD. Let's take baby steps here.
If you don't want to be a Christian and if you don't want to believe that Christ was of God, that's fine. Don't. But, don't let anyone lead you to believe that Jesus never existed.
He did exist. The evidence proves it.
#2 Apr 30, 2010
Why deny the MAN existed? Why is that a threat?
These docs don't prove he was God, just that he existed.
#3 Apr 30, 2010
I'm glad to see that no one is denying this undenyable evidence.
#4 Apr 30, 2010
Well mel, it would be pretty hard for anybody to deny the fact of Jesus Christ walking amongst mankind.
After all, look how fast Christianity spread thoughout peoples of different lands and customs and languages, without any written book for hundreds of years.
It must have took something really, really spectacular for all those disparate peoples to not only believe, but to change their lifestyle.
Funny what healing the blind and lame, casting out demons, walking on water and commanding the sea and wind will do.
Not to mention Rising From The Dead!
Since: Oct 09
#5 Apr 30, 2010
Yeah too bad those stories all go back to ancient Egyptian times. His story was copied from Horus. Christians, just like every other religious group copied their theories from other more ancient religions. No one is doubting Jesus lived, just his divinity.
Horus: By a virgin.
Jesus: By a virgin.
Horus: Only begotten son of the God Osiris.
Jesus: Only begotten son of Yehovah (in the form of the Holy Spirit).
Jesus: Miriam (a.k.a. Mary).
Foster father's ancestry:
Horus: Of royal descent.
Jesus: Of royal descent.
Horus: In a cave.
Jesus: In a cave or stable.
Birth heralded by:
Horus: The star Sirius, the morning star.
Jesus: An unidentified "star in the East."
Method of death:
Horus: By crucifixion.
Jesus: By crucifixion.
Horus: Two thieves.
Jesus: Two thieves.
Since: Oct 09
#6 Apr 30, 2010
Not to mention Horus performed miracles as well such as.
Turing water to wine
Raising people from the dead
and curing the sick and lame.
Not to mention he was called,
the way of peace.
Sound familiar....thought so.
#7 Apr 30, 2010
We possess the testimony of Tacitus (A.D. 54-119) for the statements that the Founder of the Christian religion, a deadly superstition in the eyes of the Romans, had been put to death by the procurator Pontius Pilate under the reign of Tiberius.
That His religion, though suppressed for a time, broke forth again not only throughout Judea where it had originated, but even in Rome, the conflux of all the streams of wickedness and shamelessness.
Furthermore, that Nero had diverted from himself the suspicion of the burning of Rome by charging the Christians with the crime.
Tacitus, moreover, describes some of the horrible torments to which Nero subjected the Christians (Ann., XV, xliv).
#8 Apr 30, 2010
Another Roman writer who shows his acquaintance with Christ and the Christians is Suetonius (A.D. 75-160).
It has been noted that Suetonius considered Christ (Chrestus) as a Roman insurgent who stirred up seditions under the reign of Claudius (A.D. 41-54): "Judaeos, impulsore Chresto, assidue tumultuantes (Claudius) Roma expulit" (Clau., xxv).
In his life of Nero he regards that emperor as a public benefactor on account of his severe treatment of the Christians: "Multa sub eo et animadversa severe, et coercita, nec minus instituta .... afflicti Christiani, genus hominum superstitious novae et maleficae" (Nero, xvi).
The Roman writer does not understand that the Jewish troubles arose from the Jewish antagonism to the Messianic character of Jesus Christ and to the rights of the Christian Church.
#9 Apr 30, 2010
Of greater importance is the letter of Pliny the Younger to the Emperor Trajan (about A.D. 61-115), in which the Governor of Bithynia consults his imperial majesty as to how to deal with the Christians living within his jurisdiction.
On the one hand, their lives were confessedly innocent; no crime could be proved against them excepting their Christian belief, which appeared to the Roman as an extravagant and perverse superstition.
On the other hand, the Christians could not be shaken in their allegiance to Christ, Whom they celebrated as their God in their early morning meetings (Ep., X, 97, 98).
Christianity here appears no longer as a religion of criminals, as it does in the texts of Tacitus and Suetonius; Pliny acknowledges the high moral principles of the Christians, admires their constancy in the Faith (pervicacia et inflexibilis obstinatio), which he appears to trace back to their worship of Christ (carmenque Christo, quasi Deo, dicere).
#10 Apr 30, 2010
The remaining pagan witnesses to Jesus Christ are of less importance:
In the second century Lucian sneered at Christ and the Christians, as he scoffed at the pagan gods. He alludes to Christ's death on the Cross, to His miracles, to the mutual love prevailing among the Christians ("Philopseudes", nn. 13, 16; "De Morte Pereg").
There are also alleged allusions to Christ in Numenius (Origen, Against Celsus IV.51), to His parables in Galerius, to the earthquake at the Crucifixion in Phlegon (Origen, Against Celsus II.14).
Before the end of the second century, the logos alethes of Celsus, as quoted by Origen (Contra Celsus, passim), testifies that at that time the facts related in the Gospels were generally accepted as historically true.
However scanty the pagan sources of the life of Christ may be, they bear at least testimony to His existence, to His miracles, His parables, His claim to Divine worship, His death on the Cross, and to the more striking characteristics of His religion.
#11 Apr 30, 2010
YES, YES AND YES!!! I guess you watched Zeitgeist, too, huh?
This is all true. I know that today's Christians won't believe this, but just as Jesus was sent for us, He wasn't the only one sent. Jesus was sent for our 'age'- the last 2,000 years. Others were before Him. They're all devine. They were all sent by the same God for us.
Anyway, the documents prove that He existed. I just posted this for those who say that He didn't even exist.
Was He of God? Well, his influence (world wide) shows that His love was so great. Does this make him 'more' devine than you and me? We're all of God. It's just that Jesus touched (still touches) billions. Take that any way you want.
#12 Apr 30, 2010
God has sent prophets and others to speak to, and guide, his people over the ages, but don't confuse the workers with The Son.
There is a large and awesome distinction between God as Man, and men of God.
Jesus illustrateed this exact pooint of distinction at Mark 12:1-8 where.....
"He began to speak to them in parables.
"A man planted a vineyard, put a hedge around it, dug a wine press, and built a tower. Then he leased it to tenant farmers and left on a journey.
At the proper time he sent a servant to the tenants to obtain from them some of the produce of the vineyard.
But they seized him, beat him, and sent him away empty-handed.
Again he sent them another servant. And that one they beat over the head and treated shamefully.
He sent yet another whom they killed. So, too, many others; some they beat, others they killed.
He had one other to send, a beloved son. He sent him to them last of all, thinking,'They will respect my son.'
But those tenants said to one another,'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.'
So they seized him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard."
Jesus explained very clearly who he is to Thomas.
"Jesus said to him,
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
If you know me, then you will also know my Father. From now on you do know him and have seen him."
Philip said to him, "Master, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us."
Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip?
Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say,'Show us the Father'?"
#13 Apr 30, 2010
Excellent Post, DB777
I've been saying the same thing for years.
#14 Apr 30, 2010
However, There is a difference between jesus & horus.
There's no condemnation if you don't accept horus.
There is condemnation by the christians if you don't accept jesus.
I'll pick Horus.
#15 May 1, 2010
Very good point, 6! In fact, there is NO condemnation if you don't accept Jesus.
As I've said in other topix posts here, that was all added into the Bible.
There is historical proof that:
1. Jesus preached about reincarnation. Constantine took all of that out of the Bible because he didn't like the idea of possibly reincarnating as something less than he was (a powerful ruler).
2. Jesus NEVER said that he was the only way to the Lord. THAT was added into the Bible hundreds of years after Christ by the MIND CONROL people who ruled the Church (at that time) and wanted to scare people into joining the Church and bowing down to it.
3. The Nag Hamadi Texts (google them if you don't know about them) are the texts about reincarnation that Jesus talked about.
They've been covered up by the Church all this time.
4. There is NO mention of Jesus' life in the Bible from the age of 12 until the age of about 30 just before his death. WHY IS THAT? The answer is that there WAS information about his life during those years. He traveled to India and other places (there is, even today, a 2,000 year old statue in India honoring Jesus). This information about Jesus's travels (again) was taken out of the Bible by the Mind Control people hundreds of years after Christ because (again) they didn't want you to know about the fact that Christ preached about reincarnation.
5. Christ believed in God and GODDESS. Actually, while the ancient Jews believed in only one God, the ancient, ancient Jews believed in God AND Goddess. There are archeologists TODAY who are unearthing temples to the Goddess in Isreal/Palestine. These temples have Jewish writing and symbols on them, so they're not from another culture. religions change over time (of course, they do! They're at the whim of whoever is in charge at the time. Look at today's Catholics. A year or two ago, the Pope ended their belief in Limbo for deceased, unbaptized babies. I actually agree with that change, just saying that a HUMAN decided to change it and - poof - it was done) and at some point in the history of Judiasm, someone decided that their religion should be monotheistic, following the religion of Zoroaster.
6. As you were stating, Jesus and his life were modeled after Horus. Correct! Judiasm is modeled after religions of others (Sumerians and others), too. Even the Kabalah has references to reincarnation, but today's Jews don't believe in reincarnation. When the Hebrew scribes were translating their scripture from other holy books of other religions, they shaped it to their own liking. That's how ALL of today's modern religions were formed. Don't be afraid of that. Embrace it.
7. When the ancient Hebrews were writing their holy books, they wanted to distance themselves from the Canaanites, whom they disliked. The Canaanites were considered heathens. They had sex outside of marriage. Sometimes, married and heterosexual men had sex outside thier marriages with other men. The Hebrews wanted to discourage this behavior among their people, so they added the passage, "You shall not lay with a man as you lay with a woman."
Since then, that's been interpreted to mean that God hates fags/queers. No, God doesn't hate homosexuals. God loves all.
I'm just asking you to keep an open mind. Over the course of thousands of years, do you really believe that HUMANS don't do a little tweaking here and there with scripture? Think about it.
#16 May 1, 2010
Yes, the stories go back to ancient Egyptian times.
I didn't post stories. I posted birth certificates and such. Please read the post again.
Anyway, Jesus is essentially Horus reincarnated. They were/are both the Christ (anointed one) of their ages.
Since: Mar 07
#17 May 1, 2010
The one important thing that you forgot to provide was contemporaneous evidence.
So all you've proven is that a myth exists.
Since: Oct 09
#18 May 1, 2010
I've read the evidence and just like you I believe that, yes, Jesus
existed. It's the "hero" mold I was pointing out, the fact that you have all these parallels between Horus and Jesus. The fact that christians put so much faith in the divinity of the man, and the reasons they put faith in it are stolen moments from no less than two archetypical "heroes". The fact that christians built a belief system on a crazy version of the telephone game. He was not born on Dec 25th, the day was used because it's the first day after the winter solstace when the days start getting longer. ie. "the light bringer", just like Horus. But christians put all this belief and faith on a story, that for all intensive purposes is a lie. Not the fact that Jesus did not exist, but the supposed fact that he was devine. All the scriptures that attest to his divinity were written about 300 years AFTER he died. I'll take the evidence that he did exist. He's just not as special as all the christians believe he is.
#19 May 1, 2010
Since: Oct 09
#20 May 1, 2010
Hey No theories....if you actually read the text of the story of Horus, you'd see that the link you posted was probably the funniest, almost child-like debunking, of a theory.
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