Are Atheists Good People?
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#166 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
My you made a whole mess here, First of all it is you who is being unfair, since you keep on changing what I see to make YOUR argument suiting for you. I said all creations have a creator not all existence has a creator, thus God is not a creation and therefore does not have a creator. Now there won't be any special pleading here, and yes I know what it is, for another atheist on another thread told me about it.
<quoted text>
That is scientology=meaningless. If u like, Define Alien (race) he was not a creation? u just said race, so that is a creation...
<quoted text>
Again define what do u mean when before the age of dinosaurs there is time..when? if u try to think time<God or time>God or time=God all are rejected by my religion, for only God is omniscient and we will never and can never ever reach that knowledge because He has not let it be for us. If we knew then there will be a weakspot and if there was a weakspot then God would not be God..
<quoted text>
Again I never said the word "ONLY purpose" I said purpose, u might have another and if u do I wish to know. As for who said your purpose here is to learn, well an atheist whose nick is Mylan said so, go and argue with him not me.
<quoted text>
Sure same here, except I'd be a faithful one, not a doctor who can charge extra because sins do not exist, or make the patient wait a little more, disease spreads then charge more. If I was a patient why would I go to an atheist doctor if he does not mind sinning (no sins for him!!!) at least I'd go to one who is religious and avoids sinning, who also might turn out bad, but at least a higher chance of good from the atheist doctor. Atheist doctor: yes I do not believe in sins but I won't cheat you I swear...How can u swear you don't believe in God. Trust to you is only deceitful and for your own sake and happiness. If your an artist you'd draw porn and be proud too..no comment
Ok, lets simplify this conversation, lets put it in the basic of terms.

Anything that exists MUST be created, correct?

Does your God EXIST?

If your God EXITS then by YOUR definition he must have been created.

This is what I mean by moving the goal posts to suit you.

You are saying "Everything that exists must have been created....except my personal God.

What about all the other Gods, were they created or not?
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#167 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
My you made a whole mess here, First of all it is you who is being unfair, since you keep on changing what I see to make YOUR argument suiting for you. I said all creations have a creator not all existence has a creator, thus God is not a creation and therefore does not have a creator. Now there won't be any special pleading here, and yes I know what it is, for another atheist on another thread told me about it.
<quoted text>
That is scientology=meaningless. If u like, Define Alien (race) he was not a creation? u just said race, so that is a creation...
<quoted text>
Again define what do u mean when before the age of dinosaurs there is time..when? if u try to think time<God or time>God or time=God all are rejected by my religion, for only God is omniscient and we will never and can never ever reach that knowledge because He has not let it be for us. If we knew then there will be a weakspot and if there was a weakspot then God would not be God..
<quoted text>
Again I never said the word "ONLY purpose" I said purpose, u might have another and if u do I wish to know. As for who said your purpose here is to learn, well an atheist whose nick is Mylan said so, go and argue with him not me.
<quoted text>
Sure same here, except I'd be a faithful one, not a doctor who can charge extra because sins do not exist, or make the patient wait a little more, disease spreads then charge more. If I was a patient why would I go to an atheist doctor if he does not mind sinning (no sins for him!!!) at least I'd go to one who is religious and avoids sinning, who also might turn out bad, but at least a higher chance of good from the atheist doctor. Atheist doctor: yes I do not believe in sins but I won't cheat you I swear...How can u swear you don't believe in God. Trust to you is only deceitful and for your own sake and happiness. If your an artist you'd draw porn and be proud too..no comment
TIME, existed way before man, or in fact way before our planet was formed. Do you know what the word ENTROPY means? In simple terms in means gradual decline or disorder.Everything in the known universe is in decline. Our sun will use all its fuel in a couple of billion years and cease to be a star. All things run a cycle of being born and then dying, even stars, planets and solar systems. The TIME it takes for these things to happen is CONSTANT, TIME has always existed, mankind has NOTHING to do wit the passage of time.
Pat

East Granby, CT

#168 Jan 30, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, lets simplify this conversation, lets put it in the basic of terms.
Anything that exists MUST be created, correct?
Does your God EXIST?
If your God EXITS then by YOUR definition he must have been created.
This is what I mean by moving the goal posts to suit you.
You are saying "Everything that exists must have been created....except my personal God.
What about all the other Gods, were they created or not?
You are wasting your time. The average theist is way too stupid to even comprehend the word hypocrisy.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#169 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
I wish to know if a sophisticated atheist can be a good person. Good as in does not murder, steal, or cause harm in any way to himself or others. Since Atheists deny the existence of God I see no reason that they must be good. Say I'm an atheist this is how I think...if I can steal this mans money and get away with it why on earth will I say NO!!?? no one can punish me and I'll just be happy who cares if he is sad why would I have feelings for him? if he is sad why must I be sad, am I the one being sad or him? screw him let him be sad I'll just do it..Therefore, if an Atheist is a genius and cunning he will satisfy his desires with no remorse. He will kill steal do anything since there is no God.
If there is a an Atheist who is a good person he is a dumb ass because he can cheat and trick do whatever he wants without getting punished unless caught. Or not a complete Atheist meaning he still doubts the deny of God. If your an Atheist and have some feelings that you fear or anything it simply means you fell the presence of God but your just too scared to admit it.
That's why sophisticated Atheists are technically evil men and cannot be trusted, since they do not love God and fear his wrath.
Wow...that was a whole lot of crazy....
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#170 Jan 30, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
You are wasting your time. The average theist is way too stupid to even comprehend the word hypocrisy.
Hope springs eternal

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#171 Jan 30, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, lets simplify this conversation, lets put it in the basic of terms.
Anything that exists MUST be created, correct?
False, only creations must be created.
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>
Does your God EXIST?
Yes
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>
If your God EXITS then by YOUR definition he must have been created.
False, he is not s creation, therefore he cannot be created.
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>
This is what I mean by moving the goal posts to suit you.
You are saying "Everything that exists must have been created....except my personal God.
False, I repeat every creation, must have been created, Thus I repeat my simple example for you; constructs, automobiles etc. all have been made not created by man (us) thus we are to be created since we are makers, bcuz you do not see something made that can creat or make anything, leading to the makers us, have to be created and NOT made, therefore a creator MUST exist due to our existence..If you try to tell me now that we are creators, I simply refute u by saying, ants for instance, did you create them? they are makers however they follow the rule as I explained above, but they cannot create,ultimately we all lie in this category "creations" of a creator.
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>
What about all the other Gods, were they created or not?
Gods? Gods do not exists. there is no plural, there is only 1 God and that 1 is absolute it cannot be multiplied/divided or subjected to any mathematical rule.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#172 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
False, only creations must be created.
<quoted text>
Yes
<quoted text>
False, he is not s creation, therefore he cannot be created.
<quoted text>
False, I repeat every creation, must have been created, Thus I repeat my simple example for you; constructs, automobiles etc. all have been made not created by man (us) thus we are to be created since we are makers, bcuz you do not see something made that can creat or make anything, leading to the makers us, have to be created and NOT made, therefore a creator MUST exist due to our existence..If you try to tell me now that we are creators, I simply refute u by saying, ants for instance, did you create them? they are makers however they follow the rule as I explained above, but they cannot create,ultimately we all lie in this category "creations" of a creator.
<quoted text>
Gods? Gods do not exists. there is no plural, there is only 1 God and that 1 is absolute it cannot be multiplied/divided or subjected to any mathematical rule.
Prove it.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#173 Jan 30, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>TIME, existed way before man, or in fact way before our planet was formed. Do you know what the word ENTROPY means? In simple terms in means gradual decline or disorder.Everything in the known universe is in decline.
Let me stop u there, because -

you now realize that your saying, energy, matter even time itself will cease to exist. This cannot make sense, because if u have no support to this statement i.e this will be in your way; birth the start of the existence of time and space itself, what is the begging. Since you claim the declining it means everything has a birth. Try thinking in that area more.

As for the rest of your argument it is false, for time did not have meaning if it existed, it was made and identified by humans and not something to be witnessed. Yes events happened before the creation of mankind such as dinosaurs and others, so the events were there but time was not identified. The first identification was when God created the earth in.....

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#174 Jan 30, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
You are wasting your time. The average theist is way too stupid to even comprehend the word hypocrisy.
wait a minute Pat? your the guy at the prove there's a God thread? iirc you were the hypocrite who made claims and then not subjecting himself towards them..I see, that's why a hypocrite such as yourself, comes here and brags claims. Now what? your gonna pretend to be a sovereign?

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#175 Jan 30, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Hope springs eternal
eternal..just reminded me of my last discussion with the atheists, have u heard of the zamzam water? eternal never contaminated present since 2000bc, so is that a miracle for you? also its source is unkown though to be from aquifers. But never produced any blueprints of any sort.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#176 Jan 30, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove it.
Example; what created matter? do you think by any chance that matter (existence) suddenly popped up from non existence?

if so explain how.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#177 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
Example; what created matter? do you think by any chance that matter (existence) suddenly popped up from non existence?
if so explain how.
Wow, you dodged a lot there.

If things can't just pop into existence, prove that your god is the exception to the rule.

Prove that your god exists.

Prove that your god is the only god that exists and all of the other thousands of gods that have been worshipped by man are fakes...

We'll wait.
christianity is EVIL

West Pubnico, Canada

#178 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
Example; what created matter? do you think by any chance that matter (existence) suddenly popped up from non existence?
if so explain how.
matter and energy always existed,those cant be destroyed or created only changed,BBang was one of. those endless changes the universe goes thru..its eternal and endless

no need to invent gods

can you comprehend this?
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#179 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
False, only creations must be created.
<quoted text>
Yes
<quoted text>
False, he is not s creation, therefore he cannot be created.
<quoted text>
False, I repeat every creation, must have been created, Thus I repeat my simple example for you; constructs, automobiles etc. all have been made not created by man (us) thus we are to be created since we are makers, bcuz you do not see something made that can creat or make anything, leading to the makers us, have to be created and NOT made, therefore a creator MUST exist due to our existence..If you try to tell me now that we are creators, I simply refute u by saying, ants for instance, did you create them? they are makers however they follow the rule as I explained above, but they cannot create,ultimately we all lie in this category "creations" of a creator.
<quoted text>
Gods? Gods do not exists. there is no plural, there is only 1 God and that 1 is absolute it cannot be multiplied/divided or subjected to any mathematical rule.
So....If your God was NOT created, how did he come to exist?

How do you know that no other Gods exist? Do you have proof of this, or is it something you simply believe? You do know that there are hundreds of gods that people believe in and worship. Christians worship Yahweh. More people on the face of the planet worship Yahweh that worship Allah. How do you KNOW you worship the one true God. Over 2 billion Christians will tell you that YOU are wrong. The Jewish worship Brahman, are they wrong? Are all of the countless other religions that have tier own Gods also wrong? Are you that arrogant that you can say, without any evidence, that you alone worship the one true God? Remember one very important point here, they can't all be right. If there is none true God, and you really have no proof that yours is, then billion upon billions of people are worshiping the wrong God. I would love to see your face when you die and open your eyes and suddenly find yourself standing before..........VISHNU, the Indian God?.........I was so very won......Vishnu is the one true God.

You people are so very funny, all claiming to have the one true God and not one of you has a shred of proof that yours is the ONE TRUE GOD. I'll just sit back and watch you all fight it out, knowing that NONE of you have the one true God, as Gods, all Gods, are non-existent. Too funny!!!!
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#180 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
False, only creations must be created.
<quoted text>
Yes
<quoted text>
False, he is not s creation, therefore he cannot be created.
<quoted text>
False, I repeat every creation, must have been created, Thus I repeat my simple example for you; constructs, automobiles etc. all have been made not created by man (us) thus we are to be created since we are makers, bcuz you do not see something made that can creat or make anything, leading to the makers us, have to be created and NOT made, therefore a creator MUST exist due to our existence..If you try to tell me now that we are creators, I simply refute u by saying, ants for instance, did you create them? they are makers however they follow the rule as I explained above, but they cannot create,ultimately we all lie in this category "creations" of a creator.
<quoted text>
Gods? Gods do not exists. there is no plural, there is only 1 God and that 1 is absolute it cannot be multiplied/divided or subjected to any mathematical rule.
So....by your logic, everything that exits does NOT need to be created, like your God. I can then begin to compile a list of things that I can claim do not need a creator. Things that I can say were NOT a creation, correct?
OnlyinFrankfort

Frankfort, KY

#181 Jan 30, 2013
OP said, "Since Atheists deny the existence of God I see no reason that they must be good."

This is consistently the weakest argument I've ever heard. What about not believing in a magical creator would inherently make people evil?

By that argument, all Christians would never sin or murder or commit any crimes, yet they do just as frequently as atheists.

Believing that being a Christian makes you better is just an incorrect as saying being atheist makes you amoral. Morality exists outside of religion.

I don't NOT turn my wheel and crash my car into you based on whether or not I believe in a God. I don't wish pain on myself or others based on my religion beliefs of lack thereof. I suffer the same as Christians. I feel alone, I feel rejected, I want to fit in. But I also feel happy, I see beauty in the world, I marvel at the cosmos.

None of these things are based on whether or not a God can or does exist. They also don't inherently mean that a God does exist. That's just as weak of an excuse.

The excuse of, "Well, if you can't explain it, it must be true!"

I can't explain how the process of death works, but that doesn't mean that people can't die just because I don't know how it works. In the same way, just because I can't explain our origins doesn't mean it has to have been created by a being.

There was a really great TedTalk about how life only exists because the way the world is makes it so. Not because it was designed or created. It's just chance and nothing more. If existence wasn't here as we know it, it would be another way. And that is no better or worse.

We are the way we are because things are what they are. We exist because the way things exist allow for our existence.

People ask, "Aren't you sad believing in no afterlife?"

My answer is no, of course not. What could make more precious and beautiful than to know we only get a limited amount of time? What could make life more worth living than knowing this is all you get?

And what is the cross argument? The idea that if you get to go to a heaven that somehow your life was more worth living? If you truly believed in an afterlife, wouldn't there not be anything greater than to be murdered or commit suicide?(assuming your religion doesn't preach that suicide leads to damnation)

I would think it would be the God believers rushing to the grave and yearning for death. I know my time is limited and there's nothing after this, so I make the most of my time. There is a beauty and an elegance to being able to let go and live this way. I suggest you open your mind to the possibility and see how liberating it can be.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#182 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me stop u there, because -
you now realize that your saying, energy, matter even time itself will cease to exist. This cannot make sense, because if u have no support to this statement i.e this will be in your way; birth the start of the existence of time and space itself, what is the begging. Since you claim the declining it means everything has a birth. Try thinking in that area more.
As for the rest of your argument it is false, for time did not have meaning if it existed, it was made and identified by humans and not something to be witnessed. Yes events happened before the creation of mankind such as dinosaurs and others, so the events were there but time was not identified. The first identification was when God created the earth in.....
How come you are the only one who can claim something without evidence and no one else can? I have plenty of support for my statement, any cosmologist will tell you that all things in the universe are subject to entropy. Yet you make a far reaching claim that Allah does NOT need to be created, but still exists, and you do so with no supporting evidence, except what your holy book tells you.

I can assure you that if the Earth blew up tomorrow, time would continue to exist. Time is simply the measure of entropy in the universe, it goes on with or without humans.

A little science won't hurt you, do some research into cosmology and astrophysics, and you will learn that there are billions of galaxies many of them trillions of years older that our galaxy. Times existed billions and billions of years before our galaxy was formed.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#183 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
eternal..just reminded me of my last discussion with the atheists, have u heard of the zamzam water? eternal never contaminated present since 2000bc, so is that a miracle for you? also its source is unkown though to be from aquifers. But never produced any blueprints of any sort.
It is amazing what can be accomplished when you put religious connotations on something. Simply by called water from the well "Holy" people will flock to well for their own personal miracles. I believe its called GULLIBILITY.

A 2011 testing of this water by Scientist find high levels of nitrates and harmful bacteria. They also fine arsenic and THREE time the accepted level. Arsenic is a carcinogen and many Muslim who frequently drink this water may be exposing themselves to high cancer risk. The Saudi government has prohibited the commercial export of zamzam water, and wisely so.

This is just another in a long list of religious hoaxes, much like Lourdes in France where the water is supposed to perform miracles. Magic rocks that cure illnesses, magic water. When it comes to religious claims people will buy anything. I often wonder why God hasn't declare Gullibility as sinful.

There is NO SUCH thing as miracles. Altering or suspending the laws of nature so as to be in your favor is idiotic. A stroke of good luck is NOT a miracle, being at the right place at the right time, is NOT a miracle. The bodies ability to self-heal is NOT a miracle. A surprise coincident is NOT a miracle. If miracles actually happened, science would be allover the event, it would make front pager news in every news paper in the world. Hasn't happened. James Randy has offered $1 million dollars to any miracle than can be verified by science, no one in 10 years has even made an attempt. Any miracle you present, I can come up with a reasonable explanation unless it simply relies on magic. God magic in particular. If science can't explain you miracle, then it never happened.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#184 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
Example; what created matter? do you think by any chance that matter (existence) suddenly popped up from non existence?
if so explain how.
Matter, like your God, has always exited. It wasn't created, so it needs no creator.
Pat

East Granby, CT

#185 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
Gods? Gods do not exists. there is no plural, there is only 1 God and that 1 is absolute it cannot be multiplied/divided or subjected to any mathematical rule.
Mother Geeses? Mother Geeses do not exists. there is no plural, there is only 1 Mother Goose and that 1 is absolute it cannot be multiplied/divided or subjected to any mathematical rule.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Plurality of Americans think Trump is failing 30 min old_moose 15,223
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 54 min Gabriel 983,022
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 1 hr Michael 683,541
O.J. Simpson is about to be a free man once again. 3 hr Doctor REALITY 5
Dan Gilbert: Get off your arrogant (BLEEP!) B4 ... 3 hr Awesome Facts 5
Venting Against FAKE Americans 3 hr Awesome Facts 2
Why Should Jesus Love Me? (Feb '08) 5 hr Born Again Past JW 619,683
More from around the web