Are Atheists Good People?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#186 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
"Victor would you not think that most people live each day fearing what other men might do to them if they are not good?" what I meant was a genius atheist..or an extremely rich one who can do what he pleases and afford the best lawyer to cover up after him.
...somehow the new pole is screwed and keeps disappearing ><
"is he thinking about what God might do to him if he doesn't look before doing so, or if in a car he doesn't obey the traffic laws, or is he thinking about what the local police will do to him if they catch him "misbehaving"? ofcourse he won't think about God, at that time, we cannot always think of God in everything, simply because it is tiresome, howveer we never forget him. However for an atheist why would he behave if he can avoid the police or is above the law, with a believer he will fear God and simply won't..
I think generally most of us are driven by how we are perceived by others, as it takes a very arrogant person to live his whole life completely fulfilled knowing that all other men think he is a bad person. So we conduct ourselves in such a way as to get a positive response from others. Those who live lives of going against society's rules, usually have very low self esteem and perhaps hatred and live to do as much harm as they can. Since they don't perceive affection from others, they look for respect by being tough, bad, dangerous, etc.

I think man created the concept of gods, and then to give more authority to this belief endowed these gods with having given various rules that man must live by in order to please these gods.

The gods who had eternal torture as punishment for disobedience have led to the most successful and enduring religions. Christianity is dying out in the more progressive countries today, but it would be long forgotten if people had not been indoctrinated to live in terror of an eternal hell.

It is one thing to not want to adore an invisible god, but it is quite another to die thinking you will burn for eternity.

Credit must be given to the creators of those religions with coming up with such a successful tactic, though not one conducive to a human living his life at his full potential. Having to judge every action by whether or not that action will send you to hell, can be huge burden.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#187 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
@Booooots "Personally, now that I am fairly certain that no God exists, at least not one that man has ever known of, I would be rather disappointed, if I was to die and find that I still existed in some form, even if that form was in paradise." your quite odd in fact the first atheist whom I encountered said such a thing o_O
Third as I said it is a test for you..will you curse God or accept what God does. God has brought you this child, it is not YOURS sure u worked a little but the rest was a blessing to you, he has simply taken it back. Plus there are always advantages to everything. for instance someone who is blind is refrained from sinning through his eyes. Someone who is deaf can not overhear or spy with his ears. I'm not saying its better, but there are always reasons that are far beyond our reasoning. The problem here is that you always try to compare yourselves to God, just because we are intelligent beings, do not forget who is your creator. If you created sand can it surpass you in shape and figure? God has created you and your brain therefore you will never surpass or even come near him by your wisdom. Unless HE has allowed it.
And that child who is sick is never left or forgotten, God watches all and loves those who keep their divinity towards him. In your case your saying the cry of the lonely oppressed ones is never heard and the oppressor gets away with it...sadly this gives atheists some evil ideas since they don't believe in God..this is another discussion anyways lastly this is also a sign of Gods powers that even the new born can be defected yet they can still live happily, for example look at Nick Vujicic he has tetra amelia syndrome but he is one of the happyist of the happyists out there. How do you reply to that?
Also it is part of life cycle yes, I mean people like you think its better and better if doctors keep on finding cures and antidotes for living and living as much as possible, but have you asked yourself why diseases exist then? Its not nice thinking this way but its true (you like this idea..) diseases help lower the population which help in sooooooo many things u can think of.
tell me, did Aristotel and Newton and others have fasts back then? no they were thinking much beyond facts until then they managed to prove what they had. You are now like the men back then who think that we are loons but on the day of judgement the exact will happen to was newton and others proved many ages ago.
Victor, you are attributing a lot of beliefs to me that I have not expressed. I lost an 18 year old brother tragically when I was 16 and after that I became much more of a believer than I was before, perhaps because I could only accept his death by 'knowing' he was in heaven and I would see him again.

I no longer believe that to be true, and I know that a person lives after death in the memories of those who are still alive who knew that person. I remember my father, who died in 2002, as the wonderful man he was while alive, but not because I think I will see him again soon, as I will be the age he was at death in 15 years.

I know that when I die, IMO, I will cease to know anything, but also if my mind is active until I die, which my father's was but he did not know a lot about who he was or where he was because he had two massive brain tumors which noticeably affected his behavior only a couple months before he died. I will still have my father alive in my mind until my mind ceases either at death, or at serious brain damage prior to that.

Pascal's Wager only works for someone who is doubtful about the existence of a god, and is not logical, nor should even be motive for belief, even if a god did exist. Why would this god respect a person who followed it only through fear?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#188 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
True, but I also try my best to awaken people and save them from the false path. Yes I respect their decisions, but I could try negotiating, as I now am willing to become an atheist myself if some atheist can prove to me 100% the non-existence of God.
But what, Victor, if the false path is actually spending your life in devotion to a non-existent God, wasting valuable thousands of hours, praying, doing penance, giving gifts to, or whatever are the rituals?

We know from actual studies conducted that prayer has no effect on our lives during this life, so for those, such as Muslims, who are required to pray, in a certain prescribed way 5 times a day, that is a lot of poorly used time (other than the benefit of a break in routine from the job or play) to do daily for your whole life, IF the object of one's prayers is non-existent.

What if there actually IS a real entity out there, but not any of those that various humans have believed in either in the past or currently, and this entity looks down on humans, and sees billions of humans on their knees daily praying to nothing, because that entity has no concept of being prayed to? This entity would wonder why man would do such a silly thing, would it not?

I would not visually mock someone who practices any form of honest observance of his belief, as long as he wasn't harming others, however I think that many beliefs, looking at them from the outside, do require its followers to look very silly, in how they conduct themselves.

A Roman Catholic Christian crossing themselves, or a Muslim kneeling facing Mecca, which depending on one's perspective because on a somewhat globular body such as earth, any direction could conceivably be facing towards Mecca, depending where you currently are.

A non RC Christian feeling that reading the Bible constantly is a necessary part of getting into heaven as if the reading itself was a doing of good. I mentioned that as the devout RC mother of my ex-partner expressed one day that she wondered why Protestants thought reading the Bible was so important because that had never been stressed as being important in her background. That was left to the priests to do at church.

My mother has always believed that Bible reading is necessary, not just to learn what is in it, since most of us have already learned it, but because that is required.
Mitch

Church Hill, VA

#189 Jan 30, 2013
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
So u believe in God coz u fear him?
So fear is greater than love now?
Very good clementia!!

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#190 Jan 30, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, you dodged a lot there.
If things can't just pop into existence, prove that your god is the exception to the rule.
Prove that your god exists.
Prove that your god is the only god that exists and all of the other thousands of gods that have been worshipped by man are fakes...
We'll wait.
The quran is the proof, have u read it?

if u wish to see my reasoning I already explained why a "creator" must exist because creations we exist. Which, I also explain why we are creations. look back at what I said. Also my God (allah) is superior above all therefore he is capable of all those u mentioned earlier. Proving that God exists is a fallacy, bcuz I already said that the purpose for our existence here on this planet is a test. If God is proven to exist 100% by any logic or math or factual event or anything in front of everyone then there is no need for us to be here there won't be any test, thus wrong. The others were fake as greeks and money others held several contradictions greeks even thought of titans to be higher than Gods.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#191 Jan 30, 2013
christianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
matter and energy always existed,those cant be destroyed or created only changed,BBang was one of. those endless changes the universe goes thru..its eternal and endless
no need to invent gods
can you comprehend this?
I loooooooove this subject

now then care to explain the term ALWAYS EXISTED????? how does time intervene? no beginning can never be proven whatsoever. time exists now correct we are aging, history, series of event etc. Thus we can go back, back back even more back before the creation of the multiverse back back until what? infinite? if it was infinite then there is no interval WHICH u know what that means??? the crushing of everything disorder chaos everywhere. Because u think always everything so that aything is a very hiiiiiiiiiiigh chance of a random even occuring right now this very split second of .0to the billion of 01

Please try to understand what I said here, I know my English sucks, but I did my best.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#192 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
The quran is the proof, have u read it?
if u wish to see my reasoning I already explained why a "creator" must exist because creations we exist. Which, I also explain why we are creations. look back at what I said. Also my God (allah) is superior above all therefore he is capable of all those u mentioned earlier. Proving that God exists is a fallacy, bcuz I already said that the purpose for our existence here on this planet is a test. If God is proven to exist 100% by any logic or math or factual event or anything in front of everyone then there is no need for us to be here there won't be any test, thus wrong. The others were fake as greeks and money others held several contradictions greeks even thought of titans to be higher than Gods.
In other words, you admit that there is no proof that your god exists and there is no proof that your god is any different than any of the other gods that has been worshipped over the many millenea of man's existence.

yeah...we know

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#193 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
I loooooooove this subject
now then care to explain the term ALWAYS EXISTED????? how does time intervene? no beginning can never be proven whatsoever. time exists now correct we are aging, history, series of event etc. Thus we can go back, back back even more back before the creation of the multiverse back back until what? infinite? if it was infinite then there is no interval WHICH u know what that means??? the crushing of everything disorder chaos everywhere. Because u think always everything so that aything is a very hiiiiiiiiiiigh chance of a random even occuring right now this very split second of .0to the billion of 01
Please try to understand what I said here, I know my English sucks, but I did my best.
Your English is passable. Your logic skills? Not so much...

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#194 Jan 30, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>So....If your God was NOT created, how did he come to exist?
That knowledge is never meant for us to know or question, since the one who does will either lose his mind, or become a non-believer. Trying to know How God existed, What does He look like When or any other of those is never achievable, simply because He has not granted you that knowledge also did u know that if you had ever access to this knowledge what would happen? you will die because your brain is not meant to handle such supreme knowledge.
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know that no other Gods exist? Do you have proof of this, or is it something you simply believe? You do know that there are hundreds of gods that people believe in and worship. Christians worship Yahweh. More people on the face of the planet worship Yahweh that worship Allah. How do you KNOW you worship the one true God. Over 2 billion Christians will tell you that YOU are wrong. The Jewish worship Brahman, are they wrong? Are all of the countless other religions that have tier own Gods also wrong? Are you that arrogant that you can say, without any evidence, that you alone worship the one true God?
I thought Yahweh and Elohim (same) was the God referred to that name by Jews, not christians. Anyway, about yahweh, we do not believe they worship a false God as long as the man has faith he will always be in God's care, yes we, however do believe the ideas they have about their God is false, why we do? because the quran came out after the bible for a reason, it is written in history as well..they bible fell into many hands, many testimonials came out, was altered, same with the torah, until the quran was brought, they tried their best to destroy it, however prophet mohammed pbuh and imam ali protected the quran as it was the will of Allah. That is why they are all holy books but the previous ones have been touched and messed with.
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>
Remember one very important point here, they can't all be right. If there is none true God, and you really have no proof that yours is, then billion upon billions of people are worshiping the wrong God. I would love to see your face when you die and open your eyes and suddenly find yourself standing before..........VISHNU, the Indian God?.........I was so very won......Vishnu is the one true God.
Once again I repeat we do our best to find which religion is the most righteous and true path of virtue. This does not mean that one day Oh Vishnu oh no I have been wrong...no what matters most and highly of all in our religion is that faith, good intentions once you have those you have everything in the world. Basically I wish to tell you that I'm not here to judge we believe that even atheists may enter Heaven if they are truly good people. However Islam is just a path of righteousness who helps the lost, you my friend are a lost one and I truly do wish to help you and will do my best. I have researched others and read the bible and torah, saw the contradictions and so I'm proud to be a muslim, since there are no contradictions in the quran.
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>
You people are so very funny, all claiming to have the one true God and not one of you has a shred of proof that yours is the ONE TRUE GOD. I'll just sit back and watch you all fight it out, knowing that NONE of you have the one true God, as Gods, all Gods, are non-existent. Too funny!!!!
I do not wish to come here for laughter, I'm simply discussing a matter, which originally was meant to be "Are Atheists Good People?" I still ask that since I see them easily susceptible to sinning, due to no sins in their lives no watcher no punisher, no concequences just one thing if your a psychopath and a clever smart cunning sick twisted one your a God here for yourself...I cannot see how you respect that kind of man (atheist).

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#196 Jan 30, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>So....by your logic, everything that exits does NOT need to be created, like your God. I can then begin to compile a list of things that I can claim do not need a creator. Things that I can say were NOT a creation, correct?
False not everything, only God is not a creation. Everything else is.

...this answer would then falsify the second statement as well.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#197 Jan 30, 2013
OP said, "Since Atheists deny the existence of God I see no reason that they must be good."
This is consistently the weakest argument I've ever heard. What about not believing in a magical creator would inherently make people evil?

---Oh rly? and what about us as civilized people holding our sins (natural instincts) like; lust, greed, envy, wrath, sloth, pride, glut? Religion teaches you to resist these temptations atheism is basically being an animal and follow your nature and instincts, except u have emotions and feelings or empathy,. You know why? Because God instilled this in every human beings heart, just in case Islam does not reach him, he won't be lost. God reaches a person wherever he listened to people's religion or not. It is in your instincts you simply deny it. My best proof for this; go to the sea alone throw yourself and be in peril. Believe me on that moment you will truly feel the presence of God.

By that argument, all Christians would never sin or murder or commit any crimes, yet they do just as frequently as atheists.

---Those are not referred to as religious than for they fail to follow their obligations.

Believing that being a Christian makes you better is just an incorrect as saying being atheist makes you amoral. Morality exists outside of religion.

---You make a point here, but I'm a muslim and we support this, we only believe that Islam helps you and guides you, not enforced on you.

I don't NOT turn my wheel and crash my car into you based on whether or not I believe in a God. I don't wish pain on myself or others based on my religion beliefs of lack thereof. I suffer the same as Christians. I feel alone, I feel rejected, I want to fit in. But I also feel happy, I see beauty in the world, I marvel at the cosmos.

---I explained this many times before look at my posts.

None of these things are based on whether or not a God can or does exist. They also don't inherently mean that a God does exist. That's just as weak of an excuse.
The excuse of, "Well, if you can't explain it, it must be true!"
I can't explain how the process of death works, but that doesn't mean that people can't die just because I don't know how it works. In the same way, just because I can't explain our origins doesn't mean it has to have been created by a being.
There was a really great TedTalk about how life only exists because the way the world is makes it so. Not because it was designed or created. It's just chance and nothing more. If existence wasn't here as we know it, it would be another way. And that is no better or worse.
We are the way we are because things are what they are. We exist because the way things exist allow for our existence.

---All of this is just a matter of opinion

People ask, "Aren't you sad believing in no afterlife?"
My answer is no, of course not. What could make more precious and beautiful than to know we only get a limited amount of time? What could make life more worth living than knowing this is all you get?
And what is the cross argument? The idea that if you get to go to a heaven that somehow your life was more worth living? If you truly believed in an afterlife, wouldn't there not be anything greater than to be murdered or commit suicide?(assuming your religion doesn't preach that suicide leads to damnation)
I would think it would be the God believers rushing to the grave and yearning for death. I know my time is limited and there's nothing after this, so I make the most of my time. There is a beauty and an elegance to being able to let go and live this way. I suggest you open your mind to the possibility and see how liberating it can be.

---The rest of this has been answered before if u cannot find my answers I'll be happy to find them for you, I expected that too since many of you atheists have the same response.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#198 Jan 30, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>How come you are the only one who can claim something without evidence and no one else can? I have plenty of support for my statement, any cosmologist will tell you that all things in the universe are subject to entropy. Yet you make a far reaching claim that Allah does NOT need to be created, but still exists, and you do so with no supporting evidence, except what your holy book tells you.
Holy books, nature, common sense, reason, philosophy. also science all come together with our religion, however science is the least of all, well all of this is not enough evidence for you? Entropy..I never doubted it, but it was never applied on a universe, yes quanta and antimatter are still in progress. However, they will never reach ultimate knowledge which I do not have to repeat why.
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>
I can assure you that if the Earth blew up tomorrow, time would continue to exist. Time is simply the measure of entropy in the universe, it goes on with or without humans.
I know....what are u getting at? time is infinite? or was infinite to start with, from both ways past and future?
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>
A little science won't hurt you, do some research into cosmology and astrophysics, and you will learn that there are billions of galaxies many of them trillions of years older that our galaxy. Times existed billions and billions of years before our galaxy was formed.
I know I never denied that...look at God's beautiful creations, such wonder of wonders.^^

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#199 Jan 30, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>It is amazing what can be accomplished when you put religious connotations on something. Simply by called water from the well "Holy" people will flock to well for their own personal miracles. I believe its called GULLIBILITY.
A 2011 testing of this water by Scientist find high levels of nitrates and harmful bacteria. They also fine arsenic and THREE time the accepted level. Arsenic is a carcinogen and many Muslim who frequently drink this water may be exposing themselves to high cancer risk. The Saudi government has prohibited the commercial export of zamzam water, and wisely so.
This is just another in a long list of religious hoaxes, much like Lourdes in France where the water is supposed to perform miracles. Magic rocks that cure illnesses, magic water. When it comes to religious claims people will buy anything. I often wonder why God hasn't declare Gullibility as sinful.
There is NO SUCH thing as miracles. Altering or suspending the laws of nature so as to be in your favor is idiotic. A stroke of good luck is NOT a miracle, being at the right place at the right time, is NOT a miracle. The bodies ability to self-heal is NOT a miracle. A surprise coincident is NOT a miracle. If miracles actually happened, science would be allover the event, it would make front pager news in every news paper in the world. Hasn't happened. James Randy has offered $1 million dollars to any miracle than can be verified by science, no one in 10 years has even made an attempt. Any miracle you present, I can come up with a reasonable explanation unless it simply relies on magic. God magic in particular. If science can't explain you miracle, then it never happened.
I have already replied to all those who responded the same way as you, if you may would u look into the thread called "Prove There's a God". It is near the last pages right now.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#200 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
again with the prejudice, why must u keep on closing ur eyes? show me where I wrote fear is greater than love, if u dare show me now or apologize.
Hmmmmmmm....I don't think so!:-p

U the one who said u fear hell, if u loved Allah u wouldn't fear hell!! Love and fear don't go together!

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#201 Jan 30, 2013
Mitch wrote:
<quoted text>Very good clementia!!
Hello!

What did i get right?

Thanks!
Pat

East Granby, CT

#202 Jan 30, 2013
Victor Belmont wrote:
<quoted text>
False not everything, only God is not a creation. Everything else is.
...this answer would then falsify the second statement as well.
So everything needs a creator but the most complex thing? LMAO The joy of a fairytale, you can make it whatever you want it to be.
God is your dunce cap, nothing more, hypocrite.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#203 Jan 30, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Mother Geeses? Mother Geeses do not exists. there is no plural, there is only 1 Mother Goose and that 1 is absolute it cannot be multiplied/divided or subjected to any mathematical rule.
Geese is a plural word end of story, besides u don't get it? I only said that of God not meaning that he is the only absolute in the world, only that God is absolute 1 no trinity foolishness.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#204 Jan 30, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Matter, like your God, has always exited. It wasn't created, so it needs no creator.
I have just been convinced by an atheist who informed me that I'm using a fallacy. Therefore, I wish to close the argument about creator and created.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#205 Jan 30, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
I think generally most of us are driven by how we are perceived by others, as it takes a very arrogant person to live his whole life completely fulfilled knowing that all other men think he is a bad person. So we conduct ourselves in such a way as to get a positive response from others. Those who live lives of going against society's rules, usually have very low self esteem and perhaps hatred and live to do as much harm as they can. Since they don't perceive affection from others, they look for respect by being tough, bad, dangerous, etc.
I agree.
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
I think man created the concept of gods, and then to give more authority to this belief endowed these gods with having given various rules that man must live by in order to please these gods.
The gods who had eternal torture as punishment for disobedience have led to the most successful and enduring religions. Christianity is dying out in the more progressive countries today, but it would be long forgotten if people had not been indoctrinated to live in terror of an eternal hell.
It is one thing to not want to adore an invisible god, but it is quite another to die thinking you will burn for eternity.
Credit must be given to the creators of those religions with coming up with such a successful tactic, though not one conducive to a human living his life at his full potential. Having to judge every action by whether or not that action will send you to hell, can be huge burden.
False we do not believe in eternal torture we only believe everyone get tortured for the amounts of sins he makes, God judges not us.

As for the rest it is your opinion not mine.

Since: Jan 13

Kuwait, Kuwait

#206 Jan 30, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
Victor, you are attributing a lot of beliefs to me that I have not expressed. I lost an 18 year old brother tragically when I was 16 and after that I became much more of a believer than I was before, perhaps because I could only accept his death by 'knowing' he was in heaven and I would see him again.
I no longer believe that to be true, and I know that a person lives after death in the memories of those who are still alive who knew that person. I remember my father, who died in 2002, as the wonderful man he was while alive, but not because I think I will see him again soon, as I will be the age he was at death in 15 years.
I know that when I die, IMO, I will cease to know anything, but also if my mind is active until I die, which my father's was but he did not know a lot about who he was or where he was because he had two massive brain tumors which noticeably affected his behavior only a couple months before he died. I will still have my father alive in my mind until my mind ceases either at death, or at serious brain damage prior to that.
Pascal's Wager only works for someone who is doubtful about the existence of a god, and is not logical, nor should even be motive for belief, even if a god did exist. Why would this god respect a person who followed it only through fear?
I'm sry to hear that, as for pascal's wager I disapprove of it too of course as u know, I simply wished to see your view on it.

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