Should creationism be taught in school?

[Fish]

The Florida house has voted, along party lines, on a bill that would allow the teaching of creationism in public schools.

Part of the reasoning is that some teachers are afraid to challenge evolution in the classroom. However, no teacher has ever filed a complaint on this issue.

Creationism is not an acceptable alternative to evolution IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS because it is a religiously-based theory and would be in clear violation of church and state separation. All we need is for this country to become even more intellectually retarded than it already is.

Those who wish to learn about creationism can do so among family, church and parochial school.

[NorCal88]

Well said fish. Public schools shoud be for fact based learning not religion for that we have churches and parochial schools. i don't have a problem if schools wish to add a moment for silent prayer and the pledge of allegence is a must. the biggest problem is the fact we can never find that middle ground compromise.

[Fish]

NorCal88 wrote:

Well said fish. Public schools shoud be for fact based learning not religion for that we have churches and parochial schools. i don't have a problem if schools wish to add a moment for silent prayer and the pledge of allegence is a must. the biggest problem is the fact we can never find that middle ground compromise.

Right. The bible can hardly be construed as fact-based learning.

[ImAnEvilCarrot]

It's actually somewhat of a tough call IMO. I would like to see all points of view get equal time, with the stipulation that ALL theories or beliefs on origin be identified as just that..theories or beliefs.

However, I'm also afraid that to allow the teaching of creationism is to present the creationists with the "give them an inch and they take a mile" scenario.

So, I suppose I'll have to say No. Continue to teach the theory of evolution, with the allowance that "some people have other ideas", and leave it at that.

[midniteangel]

I don't think anything that cannot be proven should be taught in school.

[Fish]

midniteangel wrote:

I don't think anything that cannot be proven should be taught in school.

Do you include evolution in your opinion?

[Orlando Freethinker]

Even worse, is that the Florida lawmakers REQUIRE educators to challenge evolution.

With what?

Where is the substantial scientific material available for such a challenge? There are indeed a modicum of minor works that meet peer review standards of selected aspects, but nothing that provides the foundation of challenge.

I only wish that when ambulances picked people up, they asked the victim if they wanted to go to a hospital or a church.

Vote pandering. Monumental stupidity. I am just sick.

[Orlando Freethinker]

Incidentally, not that it makes any difference, my post name was chosen simply because in the local Topix, there was already an Orlando Atheist.

I am beginning to think I am going to change it to one of my hero's phrases - "radical atheist".

If you are ever in Orlando and see a cream colored PT Cruiser or tan Pathfinder - both have the big (over 6 inches) vinyl decal "EvoFish" - feel free to wave!

[noellekitty]

I think that if I have to teach evolution in school, which is a theory, then I should also have to teach the other alternative theories, such as creationism or intelligent design. Not with the goal of promoting one over the other, but just as a way of putting the information out there for the kids to make their own informed choice. The way it is set up now, evolution is the only thing to teach, but in the community I am in, parents come to the school board and complain if you teach that, so....it is kinda a lose-lose. As for which is true or not, no one was there when it happened, so no one knows which is right. Heck, for all we know, aliens from the planet Zarlock could have dropped the first life forms on the planet, and there you go. It is all kinda a moot point.

[NorCal88]

Orlando Freethinker wrote:

Even worse, is that the Florida lawmakers REQUIRE educators to challenge evolution.
With what?
Where is the substantial scientific material available for such a challenge? There are indeed a modicum of minor works that meet peer review standards of selected aspects, but nothing that provides the foundation of challenge.
I only wish that when ambulances picked people up, they asked the victim if they wanted to go to a hospital or a church.
Vote pandering. Monumental stupidity. I am just sick.

So what are they going to use for a text book? i just wonder how long that law will last since the seperation is fed law?

[Neocons are Cowards]

Orlando Freethinker wrote:

Even worse, is that the Florida lawmakers REQUIRE educators to challenge evolution.
With what?
Where is the substantial scientific material available for such a challenge? There are indeed a modicum of minor works that meet peer review standards of selected aspects, but nothing that provides the foundation of challenge.
I only wish that when ambulances picked people up, they asked the victim if they wanted to go to a hospital or a church.
Vote pandering. Monumental stupidity. I am just sick.

Amazing isnt it, you would thing it was 1508!

The stranjgest patr is that the religious nutbags dont even bother to check out their own story. I know some of you religious fruits are reading this thread, so i want to ask you a question:

If the story of Adam & Eve is the true story of Creation, why is it never mentioned again in the entire Bible?

Answer: It is actually one of the NEWEST books in the whole bible. In fact, the story was written after Christ. it was one of the most popular stories form the ear between 100ad and 300ad. Being that Constantine wanted his new religion to catch on, he had the book included as the official creation story, even though the hebrew bible at the time incuses different creation tales! Your story is more politics than truth!

[sup]

Fish wrote:

The Florida house has voted, along party lines, on a bill that would allow the teaching of creationism in public schools.
Part of the reasoning is that some teachers are afraid to challenge evolution in the classroom. However, no teacher has ever filed a complaint on this issue.
Creationism is not an acceptable alternative to evolution IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS because it is a religiously-based theory and would be in clear violation of church and state separation. All we need is for this country to become even more intellectually retarded than it already is.
Those who wish to learn about creationism can do so among family, church and parochial school.

Church and state? Ha. There is no such thing as church and state. Congress cannot not tell you what religion to practice or what not to practice. That's it. There is no reference to "church and state" in the U.S. Constitution. In fact it was in the Soviet Union's Constitution. The combining of religion and government or public institutions does not violate anything.

[prevenger]

Fish wrote:

The Florida house has voted, along party lines, on a bill that would allow the teaching of creationism in public schools.
Part of the reasoning is that some teachers are afraid to challenge evolution in the classroom. However, no teacher has ever filed a complaint on this issue.
Creationism is not an acceptable alternative to evolution IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS because it is a religiously-based theory and would be in clear violation of church and state separation. All we need is for this country to become even more intellectually retarded than it already is.
Those who wish to learn about creationism can do so among family, church and parochial school.

Shurely, the fishy part that everyone is missing here is in the mutilation of title: if Natural Selection is such an uneasy topic to administer, or grasp contextually, relish on the fact that another chance may pop up when you relive history, and carry on teaching fairy tales that we all love and enjoy.

[Fish]

NorCal88 wrote:

<quoted text>
So what are they going to use for a text book? i just wonder how long that law will last since the seperation is fed law?

Hopefully, not long. I can't imagine the law being allowed to stand.

An interesting little story for you:

In the historical foundation headquarters of the town in which I live, there is a sign posted on the wall that says "Rules for Teachers -- 1872."

One of the rules states that if there is extra time after each day's lessons, the remaining time may be used for reading from the bible or any other 'good book.'

I'm curious to see if this new law would actually allow or encourage the reading of the bible to public school students!

And does this mean a whole can of worms in which all religions must be represented? Will they read the Torah and the Quaran? Will they play tamborines and memorize Hare Krishna songs?

[Fish]

Neocons are Cowards wrote:

<quoted text>
If the story of Adam & Eve is the true story of Creation, why is it never mentioned again in the entire Bible?
Answer: It is actually one of the NEWEST books in the whole bible. In fact, the story was written after Christ. it was one of the most popular stories form the ear between 100ad and 300ad. Being that Constantine wanted his new religion to catch on, he had the book included as the official creation story, even though the hebrew bible at the time incuses different creation tales! Your story is more politics than truth!

I just learned something new. Very interesting!

[Fish]

sup wrote:

<quoted text>Church and state? Ha. There is no such thing as church and state. Congress cannot not tell you what religion to practice or what not to practice. That's it. There is no reference to "church and state" in the U.S. Constitution. In fact it was in the Soviet Union's Constitution. The combining of religion and government or public institutions does not violate anything.

Try putting a creche on the courthouse lawn in your town and see how that works out for ya.

[Fish]

sup wrote:

<quoted text>Church and state? Congress cannot not tell you what religion to practice or what not to practice. That's it. There is no reference to "church and state" in the U.S. Constitution.

Nowhere did I state that Congress can tell someone what religion to practice or not practice. That is a completely different subject.

[Thel]

sup wrote:

<quoted text>Church and state? Ha. There is no such thing as church and state. Congress cannot not tell you what religion to practice or what not to practice. That's it. There is no reference to "church and state" in the U.S. Constitution. In fact it was in the Soviet Union's Constitution. The combining of religion and government or public institutions does not violate anything.

Read some Thomas Jefferson, if you want a little insight into the intent of the First Amendment. His letters to the Danbury Baptists about the "wall of separation" between church and state, perhaps.

[Thel]

noellekitty wrote:

I think that if I have to teach evolution in school, which is a theory, then I should also have to teach the other alternative theories, such as creationism or intelligent design. Not with the goal of promoting one over the other, but just as a way of putting the information out there for the kids to make their own informed choice. The way it is set up now, evolution is the only thing to teach, but in the community I am in, parents come to the school board and complain if you teach that, so....it is kinda a lose-lose. As for which is true or not, no one was there when it happened, so no one knows which is right. Heck, for all we know, aliens from the planet Zarlock could have dropped the first life forms on the planet, and there you go. It is all kinda a moot point.

I'd agree that competing theories should be taught in classrooms. The problem here is... this is putting creationism and ID on a pedestal, making it seem as if they are somehow as valid as evolution. There is NO EVIDENCE for creationism. Nothing but superstition and faith. You cannot present something as an "alternative theory" when it is not a theory at all, but mythology. Are we going to teach that one alternative is that Cronos created the world before his kids devoured him?

The problem with teaching ID in school is that it is not valid, at all. No basis in reason or science. It has no place in a science classroom. Save that crap for theology.

[Writing in Paradise]

Of course it shouldn't. There isn't any evidence for creationism.