Blaming Israel for carnage

Blaming Israel for carnage

There are 121818 comments on the Fort Worth Star-Telegram story from Jul 22, 2006, titled Blaming Israel for carnage. In it, Fort Worth Star-Telegram reports that:

Most media outlets aren't providing news of Israel's barbaric air raids on Lebanon with fairness and integrity.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Fort Worth Star-Telegram.

Calypso17

Hempstead, NY

#114070 Jan 7, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Danetoo I don't hate Israel with a passion because I have an opinion different from yours. I disagree with their actions in relation to obtaining a state and the way that they went about it. That doesn't mean I hate all Jews who are living in Israel or the rest of the world. Many Jews agree with my point of view and deny that Ertzl Israel is what is documented in the bible. If you chose to take my comments the way you do then so be it. I have defended Israel on many occasions that you now seem to forget.
and, believe me, many Palestinians are thankful that they are not being slaughtered like sheep in Syria.
USA Born

Claremont, CA

#114071 Jan 7, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't tell me what I have and haven't studied you dullard You know nothing about me and next to nothing about the OT. You are no Christian as you claim, so blow it out your ass. You are also suffering from verbal diarrhoea might need to see someone about that. LOL
Foul mouth windbag. You throw Bible words around and tell us how smart you are. The covenant between God and Abraham is a fundamental part if the Bible you are unable to grasp. Just your lips flapping in the wind. You are alot of noise with no substance.
USA Born

Claremont, CA

#114072 Jan 7, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW" USA Born" what I stated was that the covenant between Abraham and God was conditional. Biblical theologians agree with me so go figure
Theologians agree with you and you didn't even have to study. That's really smart.

There are also many theologians who disagree with you. Replacement theology is nothing new. It helps people like you to justify their hatred for th Jews.
USA Born

Claremont, CA

#114074 Jan 7, 2014
ocxz wrote:
<quoted text>
What covenant, what flippin imaginary daddy in the sky, illuminated freak mad nutjob religious nutcase ?
Why study your stupid books for gullible idiots who ,then act pompous and start barking rubbish here.
Clueless minion.
Zioni

Israel

#114075 Jan 7, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>... I would prefer to believe an eyewitness as to one that was not there at the time. So it seems that many people are liars. Eyewitnesses, Israeli soldiers, historians they are all wrong and Israel is always right
. Most of the media is owned by Jews and they manipulate it to suit their own agenda which includes trying to debunk what actually happened. In Israel there is even a person who says who can and can't get married in Israel since when did that represent a democracy?
I am dealing with it. You are lying right now about lying.

I am born a Jew and became a Zionist due to the double standard, incitement, calls for genocide and antisemitism dirrected towards Israel on a regular basis.
If people like you were actually attacking Israel for things it did instead of buying into anything bad anyone says about Israel than we could stand together to change the real problems of the land.

You are too focused on attacking Israel no matter if its true or not you just force Israel supporters to fight harder for the truth.

When Jews immigrated to Palestine they paid fortunes for the land and property, it wasn't stolen. More lies from you. Only in the 1940's did this change after decades of Arab massacres against Jews.
Half the inhabitents were not from W.Palestine, another fact you refuse to acknowledge as it would lay some of the blame on Arabs and give the Jews some more credibility.

Israeli soldiers with a clear political agenda to get Israel out of the West Bank say what they need to. Interesting thing is that some of these soldiers have admitted to carrying out war crimes but refuse to give themselves up to stand trial in Israel. You are also supporting these people. Just because they committed war crimes by their own hands doesn't mean that it is a IDF policy.

You clearly know nothing about the conflict if you are surprised by liars.

HOW CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE JENIN MASSACRE WHICH NEVER HAPPENED? In this case the Palestinians, UN, so called Jewish Media, so called Human Rights orgs all called Jenin a massacre of hundreds. Interestingly enough they were all lying and only dozens died in hand to hand battles most of them fighters.
There is no other country in the world which would have sent in ground troops for this mission (13 soldiers died at one time), they would have just carpet bombed the area. But Israel is the evil one right???
Watch "Road to Jenin". Pierre Rechov. He also has another dozen documentaries which will clear up all the lies you seem to spout.

Another Grey. There are plenty of viable opinions and facts which target Israel sadly you seem to be lacking that knowledge instead choosing to stick with the Neo-Nazi sites who don't care about the facts. So Israel is not always right.

Most of the media is not owned by Jews. This is also another example of your true intentions and beliefs. You have a problem with Jews not just Israel which is clear from your posts.

I am pro civil marriage in Israel just as I am pro-Buses and stores open on Saturday, This is an example of one of the real things in Israel which needs to be changed.

Most Israelis will agree that the majority of Arabs left withou seeing a soldier. Many Arab leaders at the time and even Abbas the leader of the Palestinians Autority said that they left without seeing a Soldier. Again you ignore reality to push your agenda of hate and lies.

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx...
Abbas admits his family and others left of their own accord.

http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflic...

100,000 had left before the war even began. Another example of your refusal to accept reality if it supports the Jewish side of the story.

you believe an eyewitness if they agree with you. otherwise you dismiss them no?
Zioni

Israel

#114076 Jan 7, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Danetoo this is how much you have changed since I started posting here
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>Danetoo I hope you realize based on my prior posts on other forums that I don't "have it in for all Jews". I think that hate is visible on both sides. Of course I haven't just relied on what Spathis has stated. If the truth be known I don't respect him based upon how he posts to people on other forum. Nevertheless I have to speak out about what Israel has done in a country that is no longer theirs. The Arabs who are there in the main were born there or in the surrounding areas and are living in the area that we call Palestine. The Hebrews not Jews were last there over 2000 years ago and to now try and call it their homeland is not only untrue but detracts from the Arabs who were born there. You know I hope, my opinion on how the Arabs treat others but it is their land now and at the end of the day I do not support multi culturalism based on past history. Even orthodox Jews do not support what Israel has done.
Hope your hip is healing up and you are now a lot more mobile!!!
I so Sheila and appreciate your reply ...
Have replied to you more thoroughly on the other forum ... Saw your reply there first :)
And yes - still a fractured hip - and only 10 days since op - but yesterday certainly far far better - saw exercises on YouTube for this sort of fracture - and did a few yesterday - but paying the price a bit today admittedly - ouch !!! That'll teach me and will definitely take it easier today !! Lol ... But walking far better with crutches now - allowed to be fully weight bearing from day after op / which is amazing really - of course I'm not by restrictions of pain (!!!)- but is still reassuring
What changed Danetoo, because my opinion still hasn't changed?
So above there is denial that the Jews are the ancient Jews.
Denial that there was a continuous albeit small Jewish community continuously in places such as Jerusalem, Hebron, Tzfat, Gaza for thousands of years.
the large majority of Orthodox Jews are the biggest Zionists of them all. You are confusing them with the hareidi community of which some of the sects are anti-Zionist based on Religion not on Justification or Legalities.

when I started speaking to you, you made claims of objectivity, claims of saying things which support Israel, and looking for the truth, also not a Jew hater. Since then you have blamed the Jews for everything in the region, have no interest in the truth if it comes from a Pro-Israel person, you believe in the Jewish control conspiracy theory even though the facts point to otherwise, deny Modern day Jews are Jews, and more often than not post from Neo-Nazi and Antisemitic websites.
Ratloder

Naugatuck, CT

#114077 Jan 7, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
I am dealing with it. You are lying right now about lying.
I am born a Jew and became a Zionist due to the double standard, incitement, calls for genocide and antisemitism dirrected towards Israel on a regular basis.
If people like you were actually attacking Israel for things it did instead of buying into anything bad anyone says about Israel than we could stand together to change the real problems of the land.
You are too focused on attacking Israel no matter if its true or not you just force Israel supporters to fight harder for the truth.
When Jews immigrated to Palestine they paid fortunes for the land and property, it wasn't stolen. More lies from you. Only in the 1940's did this change after decades of Arab massacres against Jews.
Half the inhabitents were not from W.Palestine, another fact you refuse to acknowledge as it would lay some of the blame on Arabs and give the Jews some more credibility.
Israeli soldiers with a clear political agenda to get Israel out of the West Bank say what they need to. Interesting thing is that some of these soldiers have admitted to carrying out war crimes but refuse to give themselves up to stand trial in Israel. You are also supporting these people. Just because they committed war crimes by their own hands doesn't mean that it is a IDF policy.
You clearly know nothing about the conflict if you are surprised by liars.
HOW CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE JENIN MASSACRE WHICH NEVER HAPPENED? In this case the Palestinians, UN, so called Jewish Media, so called Human Rights orgs all called Jenin a massacre of hundreds. Interestingly enough they were all lying and only dozens died in hand to hand battles most of them fighters.
There is no other country in the world which would have sent in ground troops for this mission (13 soldiers died at one time), they would have just carpet bombed the area. But Israel is the evil one right???
Watch "Road to Jenin". Pierre Rechov. He also has another dozen documentaries which will clear up all the lies you seem to spout.
Another Grey. There are plenty of viable opinions and facts which target Israel sadly you seem to be lacking that knowledge instead choosing to stick with the Neo-Nazi sites who don't care about the facts. So Israel is not always right.
Most of the media is not owned by Jews. This is also another example of your true intentions and beliefs. You have a problem with Jews not just Israel which is clear from your posts.
I am pro civil marriage in Israel just as I am pro-Buses and stores open on Saturday, This is an example of one of the real things in Israel which needs to be changed.
Most Israelis will agree that the majority of Arabs left withou seeing a soldier. Many Arab leaders at the time and even Abbas the leader of the Palestinians Autority said that they left without seeing a Soldier. Again you ignore reality to push your agenda of hate and lies.
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx...
Abbas admits his family and others left of their own accord.
http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflic...
100,000 had left before the war even began. Another example of your refusal to accept reality if it supports the Jewish side of the story.
you believe an eyewitness if they agree with you. otherwise you dismiss them no?
Why are you here in this armpit of Jew haters? Tell me it's because you are tireless, bored and looking for entertainment. These sh!tbags aren't worth your attention, unless, as some suggest, you're being paid. Don't disappoint me, as I'm a fan.
Zioni

Israel

#114078 Jan 7, 2014
http://eumc.europa.eu/eumc/material/pub/AS/An ...

http://eumc.eu.int/eumc/material/pub/AS/AS-Wo ...

working definition of Anti-semitism EU.

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.

Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.
Zioni

Israel

#114079 Jan 7, 2014
Ratloder wrote:
<quoted text>Why are you here in this armpit of Jew haters? Tell me it's because you are tireless, bored and looking for entertainment. These sh!tbags aren't worth your attention, unless, as some suggest, you're being paid. Don't disappoint me, as I'm a fan.
It fascinates me how people with no connection to the conflict can waste so much time on it especially when much of what they say is crap.

I am bored and at the moment as I am guarding a building in the middle of construction for a few days it is also Winter here. This is an easy way to pass the time. I do also find this place amusing/disturbing, and the subject is fascinating IMO.

I wouldn't mind being paid for this but its firstly not as easy as it sounds to get paid (even with all these campaigns here I have never met a paid poster in my life, but met dozens of volunteers ). Also I have a regular job and would do this because it right, not for money.

I probably spent more time over the past few weeks with non-Jews than Jews including some who may want Israel destroyed, just finding it hard to understand where Grey and co are coming from apart from blind hatred.
orion

Durban, South Africa

#114080 Jan 7, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
So above there is denial that the Jews are the ancient Jews.
Denial that there was a continuous albeit small Jewish community continuously in places such as Jerusalem, Hebron, Tzfat, Gaza for thousands of years.
the large majority of Orthodox Jews are the biggest Zionists of them all. You are confusing them with the hareidi community of which some of the sects are anti-Zionist based on Religion not on Justification or Legalities.
when I started speaking to you, you made claims of objectivity, claims of saying things which support Israel, and looking for the truth, also not a Jew hater. Since then you have blamed the Jews for everything in the region, have no interest in the truth if it comes from a Pro-Israel person, you believe in the Jewish control conspiracy theory even though the facts point to otherwise, deny Modern day Jews are Jews, and more often than not post from Neo-Nazi and Antisemitic websites.
What I gather from your article is that if Indians bought the properties of London, they have theright to take over Britain. As I said before, there were only 84 000 Jews in Palestine in 1924. Now there are some 7 million. Whether an invasion is pacific or violent, it is still an invasion. When the weeds invade a garden, the gardener pull them out, otherwise the flowers die. Simple as that.
Khazar and Ashkenazim Jews-You Tube
An honest Israeli Jew tells the Real Truth about Israel.
http://youtube.com/watch...
orion

Durban, South Africa

#114081 Jan 7, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
It fascinates me how people with no connection to the conflict can waste so much time on it especially when much of what they say is crap.
I am bored and at the moment as I am guarding a building in the middle of construction for a few days it is also Winter here. This is an easy way to pass the time. I do also find this place amusing/disturbing, and the subject is fascinating IMO.
I wouldn't mind being paid for this but its firstly not as easy as it sounds to get paid (even with all these campaigns here I have never met a paid poster in my life, but met dozens of volunteers ). Also I have a regular job and would do this because it right, not for money.
I probably spent more time over the past few weeks with non-Jews than Jews including some who may want Israel destroyed, just finding it hard to understand where Grey and co are coming from apart from blind hatred.
An anti-semites is not somebody who hate Jews, it is somebody the Jews hate.
orion

Durban, South Africa

#114082 Jan 7, 2014
George wrote:
GOD Is Busy
If you don't know GOD, don't make IDIOTIC remarks!!!!!!
A United States Marine was taking some college courses between assignments. He had completed 20 missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. One of the courses had a professor who was an avowed atheist, and a member of the ACLU.
One day the professor shocked the class when he came in. He looked to the ceiling and flatly stated, "GOD, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you exactly 15 minutes." The lecture room fell silent... You could have heard a pin drop. Ten minutes went by and the professor proclaimed, "Here I am GOD, I'm still waiting."
It got down to the last couple of minutes when the Marine got out of his chair, went up to the professor, and cold-cocked him; knocking him off the platform. The professor was out cold.
The Marine went back to his seat and sat there, silently.
The other students were shocked and stunned, and sat there looking on in silence. The professor eventually came to, noticeably shaken, looked at the Marine and asked, "What in the world is the matter with you? Why did you do that?"
The Marine calmly replied, "GOD was too busy today protecting America's soldiers who are protecting your right to say stupid stuff and act like an idiot. So He sent me."
The classroom erupted in cheers!- very well put.
Maybe you should have asked what God's people were doing in Iraq and Afghanistan killing millions of people and dumping thousands of tons of DU over the land. Well God did not protect US soldiers. Never heard of Gulf syndrome affecting some 500 000 US soldiers of the first Iraq war and their offsprings. If they had stayed at home, they would still be alive and healthy. So George, stop with the crap about your glorious heroes. They were just expendable puppets for Halliburton and the other corporations. There was no glory in those wars. The world is tired of the Empire's meddling and mass murder. We cannot wait to see the fall of that empire and that could come very soon.
Zioni

Israel

#114083 Jan 7, 2014
orion wrote:
<quoted text>What I gather from your article is that if Indians bought the properties of London, they have theright to take over Britain. As I said before, there were only 84 000 Jews in Palestine in 1924. Now there are some 7 million. Whether an invasion is pacific or violent, it is still an invasion. When the weeds invade a garden, the gardener pull them out, otherwise the flowers die. Simple as that.
Khazar and Ashkenazim Jews-You Tube
An honest Israeli Jew tells the Real Truth about Israel.
http://youtube.com/watch...
You would have to twist what I say otherwise you would have to admit I am right.

No if India had a Mandate from the League of Nations reafirmed in the UN Charter article 80 and taken land WestBank which they had a claim to and no other nation legally did.

How many Arabs where there in 1800? Since you want to start this subject. As the fact is that half the Palestinians are not indigenous either.

So you deny Jews are Jews when only one study in the history of the world supports you and Elhaik raised money for a Khazar study. So much for credible.

Anyone who hates Israel or Jews is honest in your opinion
Zioni

Israel

#114084 Jan 7, 2014
orion wrote:
<quoted text>An anti-semites is not somebody who hate Jews, it is somebody the Jews hate.
exactly what an antisemite would say..

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114085 Jan 7, 2014
Zioni wrote:
< quoted text>
In relation to part of your quoted text:
Yes they were intimidated to leave with the threat of death as has been documented elsewhere. I believe an eyewitness account, compared to a non eyewitness account especially when those same reports have been corroborated by different groups such as Jews, Christians and Arabs to far more believable than what you claim and not because it suits my "agenda"
You state that Israel is one of the most democratic countries in the world that you know of so can you explain why they enforced a law in 1977 which prohibits proselytizing Jews.
Excerpted from Fifty Years of Israel By Donald Neff. Donald Neff has been a journalist for forty years. He spent 16 years in service for Time Magazine and is a regular contributor to Middle East International and the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs.
On Dec. 29, 1977, Christians in Israel and the occupied territories protested a new law passed by the Israeli parliament making it illegal for missionaries to proselytize Jews.
Protestant churches charged that the law had been “hastily pushed through parliament during the Christmas period when Christians were busily engaged in preparing for and celebrating their major festival.” The law made missionaries liable to five years’ imprisonment for attempting to persuade people to change their religion, and three years’ imprisonment for any Jew who converted. The United Christian Council complained that the law could be “misused in restricting religious freedom in Israel.”
Nonetheless, it came into force on April 1, 1978, prohibiting the offering of “material inducement” for a person to change his religion. A material inducement could be something as minor as the giving of a Bible. Although the Likud government of Menachem Begin assured the Christian community that the law applied equally to all religions and did not specifically mention Christians, the United Christian Council of Israel charged that it was biased and aimed specifically at Christians since only Christians openly proselytized. Council representatives also cited anti-Christian speeches made in the parliament during debate on the law. Parliament member Binyamin Halevy had called missionaries “a cancer in the body of the nation.”
The next year Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, considered a political moderate, issued a religious ruling that copies of the New Testament should be torn out of any edition of a Bible owned by a Jew. Israeli scholar Yehoshafat Harkabi wrote that he was disturbed by “these manifestations of hostility-the designation of Christians as idolaters, the demand to invoke the ‘resident alien’ ordinances, and the burning of the New Testament.” Observed Harkabi:“Outside of the Land of Israel Jews never dared behave in this fashion. Has independence made the Jews take leave of their senses?”
Desecration of Christian property and churches—arson, window breaking, burning of the New Testament—had long marred relations between the two communities. A small but fanatical group of Jews wanted no Christians, whom they considered fallen Jews, in Israel. This virulent strain of prejudice had been present since before the Jewish state was founded.
For instance, after the capture by Jewish forces of Jaffa on May 13, 1948, two days before Israel’s birth, there was desecration of Christian churches. Father Deleque, a Catholic priest, reported:“Jewish soldiers broke down the doors of my church and robbed many precious and sacred objects. Then they threw the statues of Christ down into a nearby garden.” He added that Jewish leaders had reassured that religious buildings would be respected,“but their deeds do not correspond to their words.”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114086 Jan 7, 2014
USA Born wrote:
<quoted text>
Theologians agree with you and you didn't even have to study. That's really smart.
There are also many theologians who disagree with you. Replacement theology is nothing new. It helps people like you to justify their hatred for th Jews.
Nope wrong again I have studied it and as I have stated elsewhere to you I do not believe in the replacement theory which claims that the church now represents Israel in the spiritual sense as opposed to the physical Israel. So the reason for your post about the replacement theory makes no sense. I stated that God would bring about the creation of physical Israel through his son Jesus not through secular Zionist Jews who desecrate what is taught in the bibel. You asked me how could it be possible that without man the building of building the temple would occur and I stated that with God anything is possible. As far as being a Christian goes I have never heard them use the F word with the ease that you do
George

Red Deer, Canada

#114087 Jan 7, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Indians in Canada and the US captured families and scalped them saving the scalp, should all Indians be rounded up and arrested because 150-200 years ago savages had very nasty practises in war, nothing would ever be done today anything like that however following your logic that should happen.

The same with Germans because of Hitler or Venezulans because of hiding Nazis and working for chavez.

This can keep going on forever, if we follow the preachings of someone caught in a time warp that want's revenge or justice to make up for a 5000 years old problem, shall we desecrate their graves to make people like you happy. You seem to want some form of justice to make you happy. Germans have paid billions to apologize to Jews, Russia executed a whole family and their relatives because they did not like them and wanted to replace them, should we be rounding up the next king and his family and execute them.

Just do some readings about the Royal Families in England and you will meet murderers, rapists, witches, prostitutes and thieves, so again do we round them up.

NO NO NO NO, enough instead of reasearching about the OT or ET, well maybe it is time to research how to stop the war, how to get forgivenesses, how to repay, how to live together and how to work together. It is each just to blab away about 200 years ago when you only have a memory written on paper by possibly someone that knows.

People feel so very smart about condemning people, but yet so few stand up and help to settle a dispute. The people with the dispute ending will on day hug and move on.

Australia practising the "Circle of Healing" invented by natives and has been brought to many countries. I have been involved with this program for over a year and it is incredibly marvelous, go ahead just read. Australia actually deal with a murder and was able to come up with a satisfying solution for both sides, imagine that. That is what happens when busy boddies get together to forge a solution.

The other solution is carry on and start ANOTHER was and see who wins

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114088 Jan 7, 2014
George wrote:
<quoted text>
Indians in Canada and the US captured families and scalped them saving the scalp, should all Indians be rounded up and arrested because 150-200 years ago savages had very nasty practises in war, nothing would ever be done today anything like that however following your logic that should happen.

A: No of course not we are talking about 60 years ago and the Zionists knew exactly what they were doing. Some are still alive today and should be made accountable for their actions. It is impossible to bring to justice what people did who are already dead

The same with Germans because of Hitler or Venezulans because of hiding Nazis and working for chavez.

A: They are being brought to justice as we post

This can keep going on forever, if we follow the preachings of someone caught in a time warp that want's revenge or justice to make up for a 5000 years old problem, shall we desecrate their graves to make people like you happy. You seem to want some form of justice to make you happy. Germans have paid billions to apologize to Jews, Russia executed a whole family and their relatives because they did not like them and wanted to replace them, should we be rounding up the next king and his family and execute them.

A:You are being ridiculous George by suggesting that graves be desecrated. I remember you from a prior forum when you used to argue with Aryreshire and now you are here doing the exact opposite

Just do some readings about the Royal Families in England and you will meet murderers, rapists, witches, prostitutes and thieves, so again do we round them up.

A:Wherever injustice prevails it needs to be stamped out. I don't need to do that, in those days there was a different system in place it was called the feudal system and we have all moved on since then and you are now trying to compare oranges and apples. Why don't you use the Crusades as an example of how Christianity killed with the blessing of the pope of the day?

NO NO NO NO, enough instead of reasearching about the OT or ET, well maybe it is time to research how to stop the war, how to get forgivenesses, how to repay, how to live together and how to work together. It is each just to blab away about 200 years ago when you only have a memory written on paper by possibly someone that knows.

A: If you choose not to research the OT then that is your business, but don't tell others what they should do in relation to their faith, that is not your place to suggest that and you are out of line

People feel so very smart about condemning people, but yet so few stand up and help to settle a dispute. The people with the dispute ending will on day hug and move on.

A: Yes when having a discussion and a negotiation EVERYTHING needs to be put on the table- no holds bared

Australia practising the "Circle of Healing" invented by natives and has been brought to many countries. I have been involved with this program for over a year and it is incredibly marvelous, go ahead just read. Australia actually deal with a murder and was able to come up with a satisfying solution for both sides, imagine that. That is what happens when busy boddies get together to forge a solution.

A: Shows how smart we are in Australia and yet the politicians are still condemned by the likes of Zioni because some are against Israel. If you can see smoke then there is a reason for it. Israel just tries to blow it away and pretends that nothing is wrong and nothing has happened

I presume that you are one of the busy bodies that frequents this forum. BTW are you still a pharmacist George??

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114089 Jan 8, 2014
Defenders of the Jewish state have unwittingly kicked off a much-needed debate about national identity

By Ben White Published 05 February 2012 10:21

The Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) is one of the key Israel advocacy groups in the UK. In the last week BICOM has published a series of essays on 'Israel's democratic futures'(if that's a question, the answer is 'here's hoping'). BICOM's worry, as its chief Lorna Fitzsimons wrote in her introduction, is that "a notion is spreading in the West that Israel is fast becoming an illiberal ethno-democracy".

One of the contributions is an interview by BICOM's Alan Johnson of the US political philosopher Michael Walzer. At first glance, Johnson appears to be unafraid of posing the difficult questions - but Walzer's unchallenged replies are revealing.

Israel is not the state of the Jewish people; Jews outside Israel don't vote in its elections and non-Jews inside Israel do vote in its elections. The Jewish people are not sovereign in Israel; the citizens of Israel are sovereign there. I think there is a sense in which Israel, I mean green line Israel, is right now politically a state of all its citizens. The real difficulties are not political, they are cultural, and they arise in every nation state.

Unpacked, this is a wonderful illustration of the denial and diversion tactics deployed by those trying to reconcile the idea of a 'Jewish' and 'democratic' state. Walzer says "there is a sense" in which Israel is "a state of all its citizens" - but he presents no evidence, and quickly moves on in order to focus on "cultural" difficulties.

Walzer's response is just wrong (and he surely must know this).

Firstly, foundational to Israel's legal framework as a Jewish state is legislation passed in the first few years, specifically the Law of Return, the Absentee Property Law, and the Citizenship Law. These laws shaped an institutionalised regime of ethno-religious discrimination by extending Israel's 'frontiers' to include every Jew in the world (as a potential citizen), at the same time as explicitly excluding expelled Palestinians.

Search BICOM's essays in vain, however, for serious acknowledgement that Israel the 'liberal democracy' was founded on the basis of ethnic cleansing and mass land expropriation; that the only reason there is a 'Jewish majority' at all, is because of the historic fact of the forced exclusion of Palestinians from their homes and lands.

Read more at:

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-stagger...

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114090 Jan 8, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
It fascinates me how people with no connection to the conflict can waste so much time on it especially when much of what they say is crap.
It fascinates you that people want justice for others regardless of their connection with Israel? That they are wasting their time in voicing their opinion?Because Israel knows it all?? How arrogant you truly are to think that Israel is not in the middle of and not part of the reason that the middle east is in the situation it is in. I suppose it is easier to bury one's head in the sand, blame the Arabs for everything, use Christians as partners when the reality is that you don't even allow proselytizing in your democratic Israel re Christianity and where you don't listen to the concerns of the everyday lay person.

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