Which is the Oldest Indian Language? ...
shruthi

Bangalore, India

#1806 Dec 26, 2013
santhosh balaji wrote:
<quoted text>
Ms Shruthi the Rigveda, the oldest of the Vedas, was composed roughly between 1700 and 1100 BCE,(you can google it) but the ancient tamil sangam existed approximately 7000 to 5000BC(you can also google it)there are numerous literatures in tamil which explains about the sangam age........
Do you know that the tamil word sivan was sanskritised as shiva
"Sivan" literally means "the red one"
As sivan is an angry god he aquires that name ,as the red(sivapu in tamil)colour symboloises anger
Mr Balaji I am putting Wat is written in Wikipedia about Tamil sivan means red. Means one who has red skin. Who is very fair in skin tone. Only fair skin can get red in anger. But in Vedic books he is dark in colour and also called neelkanth. Copying what I found in wikki Main article: List of titles and names of Shiva

The Sanskrit word Shiva (Devanagari: &#2367;&#2358;&#23 57;, &#347;iva) comes from Shri Rudram Chamakam of Taittiriya Samhita (TS 4.5, 4.7) of Krishna Yajurveda. The root word &#347;i [17] means auspicious. In simple English transliteration it is written either as Shiva or Siva. The adjective &#347;iva, is used as an attributive epithet not particularly of Rudra, but of several other Vedic deities.[18]

The other popular names associated with Shiva are Mahadev, Mahesh, Maheshwar, Shankar, Shambhu, Rudra, Har, Trilochan, Devendra (meaning Chief of the Gods) and Trilokinath (meaning Lord of the three realms).[19][20][21]

The Sanskrit word &#347;aiva means "relating to the god Shiva", and this term is the Sanskrit name both for one of the principal sects of Hinduism and for a member of that sect.[22] It is used as an adjective to characterize certain beliefs and practices, such as Shaivism.[23] He is the oldest worshipped Lord of India.

The Tamil word Sivan, Tamil: &#61137;&#2997;&#6 1121; ("Fair Skinned") could have been derived from the word sivappu. The word 'sivappu' means "red" in Tamil language but while addressing a person's skin texture in Tamil the word 'Sivappu' is used for being Fair Skinned.[24][25]

Adi Sankara, in his interpretation of the name Shiva, the 27th and 600th name of Vishnu sahasranama, the thousand names of Vishnu interprets Shiva to have multiple meanings: "The Pure One", or "the One who is not affected by three Gunas of Prakrti (Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas)" or "the One who purifies everyone by the very utterance of His name." [26] Swami Chinmayananda, in his translation of Vishnu sahasranama, further elaborates on that verse: Shiva means "the One who is eternally pure" or "the One who can never have any contamination of the imperfection of Rajas and Tamas".[27]

Shiva's role as the primary deity of Shaivism is reflected in his epithets Mah&#257;deva ("Great God"; mah&#257; "Great" and deva "god"),[28][29] Mahe&#347;vara ("Great Lord"; mah&#257; "great" and &#299;&#347;vara "lord"),[30][31] and Parame&#347;vara ("Supreme Lord").[32]

There are at least eight different versions of the Shiva Sahasranama, devotional hymns (stotras) listing many names of Shiva.[33]

The version appearing in Book 13 (Anu&#347;&#257;sanapa rvan) of the Mahabharata is considered the kernel of this tradition.[34]

Shiva also has Dasha-Sahasranamas (10,000 names) that are found in the Mahanyasa. The Shri Rudram Chamakam, also known as the &#346;atarudriya, is a devotional hymn to Shiva hailing him by many names.[35][36]

Read in another language

Last modified 7 days ago

Etymology and other names

Historical development and
jayanta kumar

Doha, Qatar

#1807 Dec 26, 2013
Tamil - c. 200 BC: cave inscriptions and potsherds in Tamil Nadu[24][25.
Be for Tamil, Indian are use Sanskrit it is true.
Era Sekar

Chennai, India

#1808 Dec 26, 2013
Tamil Tamil Tamil
jacob tirunelveli

Bangalore, India

#1809 Dec 26, 2013
shruthi wrote:
<quoted text> I am writing here so that I should not be misuderstood, I mean some dumbhead Srilankans who discriminated Tamils for their language and culture. But let me ask you Jacob thirunelveli that what is difference b/t you and them. They also discriminate people for their origin or language same as you. The issue with Srilankan tamils are humanitarian issue not Tamil issue. Whatever is wrong is wrong and should not be supported in any case.
how dump you are . iam giving you proof and you are argueing without any proof. then who is dump. you idiot sikh riot was against sikhs and indian govt. but tamil eelam is a fight against tamils and srilankan govt indian govt helped srilankan govt to kill tamils. first understand the subject and give your idiotic answers. why you sanskrit fools are not giving any proof. why you are just raising voice without any hold.this shows that you all are fools. half baked eggs.

Since: Aug 13

Ashburn, VA

#1810 Dec 27, 2013
shruthi wrote:
<quoted text>Mr Balaji I am putting Wat is written in Wikipedia about Tamil sivan means red. Means one who has red skin. Who is very fair in skin tone. Only fair skin can get red in anger.
The Sanskrit word Shiva (Devanagari: &#2367;&#2358;&#23 57;, &#347;iva) comes from Shri Rudram Chamakam of Taittiriya Samhita (TS 4.5, 4.7) of Krishna Yajurveda. The root word &#347;i [17] means auspicious.
The Tamil word Sivan, Tamil: &#61137;&#2997;&#6 1121; ("Fair Skinned") could have been derived from the word sivappu. The word 'sivappu' means "red" in Tamil language but while addressing a person's skin texture in Tamil the word 'Sivappu' is used for being Fair Skinned. 
shiva means "the auspicious one" in sanskrit...auspicious means "mangalakaram" in tamil and "mangala" in sanskrit...usually tamil gives direct meaning while sanskrit gives indirect meaning...vishnu means "found every where" in sanskrit while in tamil it means  vinnavan(vinnu->vitnu->v ishnu) ie he who is the space that spreads every where...same way mangala in sanskrit indirectly refers to red colour...mangalawara is tuesday denoting red planet mars...mangalawara in tamil means "sevvaai" which is also red...red coloured kungumam(kumkum) and fire is considered as auspicious...arunachalam is one of the name of sivan means the red mountain which came after when sivan appears as a fire mountain infront of vishnu and brahma as per thiruvannamalai history and siva puranam...and equating sivan to red skin is not merely to whoever looks red with reference to wikipedia is not exactly true since anybody can edit this,sivan is not merely a red skin god but a flame god,red fair skin denotes when sivan tooks human form as somasundharar as the ruler of madurai...even a black african or a white caucasian's face turns reddish when he is in angry it is because of the increasing flow of blood...so red here not denotes the skin but the blood that makes the skin looking reddish which denotes rudra a form of sivan,routhram in sanskrit and uruthiram in tamil is getting reddish or angry...uthiram(uruthiram,urut hiran,rudran) all are refering to blood means raktha in sanskrit and raththam,uthiram,kuruthi in tamil...the hidden blood of our body is similar to the hidden fire of earth,so our face turning red because of angry is similar to emission of the fire in form of lava from earth when it gets angry...ancient tamil siththars through kundalini awakening has the ability to see their inner body which are all reddish because of the blood flow...they sings as "andamae pindam ,pindamae andam"(universe is the body and body is the universe)...so going towards inner core of body(residence of god) is similar to going beyond universe in search of god...they usually say "sarvam sivamayam" means everything looking red(sivan) is nothing but the one they see inside the body while they travelling inside the body(to understand this better put your fingers in above a glowing torch light in night time)...and further going interior to the body they see the atma looking bright(jyothi in sanskrit and sudar in tamil) which denotes sivan...this is why sivan is called kadavul(god) in tamil(kada-crossing, vul-inside, the one who is beyond everything and crossed everything but resides inside the body)...kambar while refering to the birth of tamil gives a clear picture about sivan in his raamaavathaaram(ramayana) "thazhal purai sudar kadavul thandha thamizh"...thazhal-fire(r udra),purai-uncovering,sudar-r eddish upper part of flame,kadavul-god,thandha-givi ng...means tamil was given by the god who is the red flame seen by uncovering the fire (similar to uncovering a banana fruit)...soodamani nikandu a 10th century tamil dictionary gives one of the name of sivan as sentheevannan(reddish fire coloured)
shruthi

Bangalore, India

#1811 Dec 27, 2013
Mudaliar wrote:
Shruti
Excellent recapitulation and compilation of Euro Greek centrism,being repeated time and again to disrupt our real history. The question of Sanskrit and Tamil are from ages is accepted by all but reluctunt to give the true historic element Of Tamil,Is it just because Tamil lost all literary records by floods?And whatever available, west is not recognizing as historical records but for imagination of poets and pundits.We all know that there are are thousands of languages existed dead and alive. Are we are not interested in digging out the distorted ,vicious and poisonous injected in our original scripts and Also the whole European and Missionaries game plan to destroy of our past.There were periods of different languages domination depending upon royal patronage and a influential literate . The question is whether Tamil sangams ,all three existed or not? The question that first Sangam characters are having historical value or not and when and how west will recognize?Coming to some specifics is the grammar of Panini is not written in Sanskrit and for Sanskrit? What was the language of Grammar written by Indiran? whether Tholkapiar and Panini were contemporaries? Who were the 64 grammarians? lived during which period?I am leaving out mythological character Agastiyiar,because there could be a possibility of several Agastiyars in the past..But at least can we give to give credit that Tamil and Sankrit were mastered by Agsthiyar .and the first Grammar Agasthiyam is totally lost .Who was Mudu Kudumi. Peruvazhdi?Who was arya padai venra pandian? and when he conquered the aryans? What is the difference between those aryans continuously referred in Tamil old literatures and the European and German defined Aryans?Is there any justification that Sanskrit birth place was Ethiopa and Ethiopians feels that due credit was not given to them. Mayan civilization calender similarity ours leads to what? Was Sumerians^ language was a proto Tamil and Accadian civilization used Sanskrit words?
I am not expecting a quick fix solutions but at least this forum try to build constructive arguments and define them with timelines.Otherwise I presume that Elepahant description by blind people will only be repeated time and again..I sincerely hope that learned from different fields contribute and educate for those who want to be educated.
yes both sanskrit and Tamil lived in our country for ages. Not only these two there were many languages in ancient times which did not survive.so Tamil language was created by sage agastya. There is a story that he crossed vindyas and went there and populized that area. You can read agastya rishi story and he is mentioned in ramayana. When lord rama was in forest in exile, he went to meet him. Even if you coins published in Tamil kingdoms were both in Sanskrit and tamil. It is been found. And Aryan theory is a myth which has been used by Britishers to divide and rule. More divided we are more weak we are and their formula worked too. It made them easy to rule.the scholars for south were also well in Sanskrit. Well as per new genetic findings it is found that first human developed was in Africa and nearly 80000 years back they came to india and then from here nearly 30000 years back they moved to other parts like Europe etc. And the changes in appearance are due to climatic conditions. Mutations might have happend. Recent example of mutation is a different kind of butterfly has originated in Japan due to atomic blast. You can read about it. Albanism is common in animals too.
shruthi

Bangalore, India

#1812 Dec 27, 2013
jacob tirunelveli wrote:
<quoted text>
how dump you are . iam giving you proof and you are argueing without any proof. then who is dump. you idiot sikh riot was against sikhs and indian govt. but tamil eelam is a fight against tamils and srilankan govt indian govt helped srilankan govt to kill tamils. first understand the subject and give your idiotic answers. why you sanskrit fools are not giving any proof. why you are just raising voice without any hold.this shows that you all are fools. half baked eggs.
you are being dumb here for not understanding simple things. Like Srilankan govt. discriminated Tamils same way you are also abusive discriminatory towards others for their origin. What is difference between those few dumbhead Srilankans and you . All are same people . You are being abusive for others language and culture then how can you expect respect for yours. Your kind of people are in every community to spread hatred be it religion, caste, colour or Language. Why dont you show same emotions for Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh. There are many countries that treats there minorities badly. Same question I ask you.
shruthi

Bangalore, India

#1813 Dec 27, 2013
Thrivikraman wrote:
<quoted text>
shiva means "the auspicious one" in sanskrit...auspicious means "mangalakaram" in tamil and "mangala" in sanskrit...usually tamil gives direct meaning while sanskrit gives indirect meaning...vishnu means "found every where" in sanskrit while in tamil it means  vinnavan(vinnu->vitnu->v ishnu) ie he who is the space that spreads every where...same way mangala in sanskrit indirectly refers to red colour...mangalawara is tuesday denoting red planet mars...mangalawara in tamil means "sevvaai" which is also red...red coloured kungumam(kumkum) and fire is considered as auspicious...arunachalam is one of the name of sivan means the red mountain which came after when sivan appears as a fire mountain infront of vishnu and brahma as per thiruvannamalai history and siva puranam...and equating sivan to red skin is not merely to whoever looks red with reference to wikipedia is not exactly true since anybody can edit this,sivan is not merely a red skin god but a flame god,red fair skin denotes when sivan tooks human form as somasundharar as the ruler of madurai...even a black african or a white caucasian's face turns reddish when he is in angry it is because of the increasing flow of blood...so red here not denotes the skin but the blood that makes the skin looking reddish which denotes rudra a form of sivan,routhram in sanskrit and uruthiram in tamil is getting reddish or angry...uthiram(uruthiram,urut hiran,rudran) all are refering to blood means raktha in sanskrit and raththam,uthiram,kuruthi in tamil...the hidden blood of our body is similar to the hidden fire of earth,so our face turning red because of angry is similar to emission of the fire in form of lava from earth when it dish upper part of flame,kadavul-god,thandha-givi ng...means tamil was given by the god who is the red flame seen by uncovering the fire (similar to uncovering a banana fruit)...soodamani nikandu a 10th century tamil dictionary gives one of the name of sivan as sentheevannan(reddish fire coloured)
I respect your view but just wanna give you some more reference for your help in connecting thing. Similarly as you told for red color it can be mangal word derived from Tamil word manjal which means turmeric (yellow) in color which is used in auspicious ocassion that is not only tamilnadu but entire country turmeric or japdi is used so let's now derive new meaning that manjal has become mangal in Sanskrit. It is funny now I have given you a better derivation for word mangal. You gave it with red I gave with yellow. So if simply connect some things from one language to other you will definitely reach out to some conclusions which will make no sense. And Vishnu mean special atom. It is a sandhi or combinations of two words vi means vishistha and anu means atom. So he is a special atom which controls everything. Similarly word vigyan is combination of vishistha, vi (special) gyan (knowledge) in English vigyan means science. Hinduism is more of spirituality and science than being a religion. It always teach people to live in harmony. For eg in a same house you will find one krishna bhakta and other devi bhakta but there will not be any conflict among both. Hinduism is way of living not a religion. It is universal law. GOD means generator (Brahma) operator (Vishnu) destroyer (shiva). Among all Shiva is worshipped most because his work is very beautiful because if something new has to come then something old has to destroy. If a rose is there permanently then you will not find it beautiful but its beauty is that it blooms only in its season.
sam

Dispur, India

#1814 Dec 27, 2013
Ther is no lord Shiva. ..ther is only 1 god called jesus, dnt be confused....
jacob tirunelveli

Kolkata, India

#1815 Dec 27, 2013
please dont misunderstand the word sivan. sivan means sivanthavan. red means sun not the colour. sivan is represented by holy light. even is vedas sivan is the light. light is red. thats why sivan is called red. pirazhnava explains the whole concept. the space was first motionless. there were micro particles that was motionless it is called nun porul(brahma) by mayan. this micro particle starts to vibrate and revolve it become octogonal shape due to the motion it is named as vishnu in vedas. as the nun porul vibrates and revolves in great frequency light is formed. this light has no start and end this light is called oli thoon in veda it is called siva. the nunporul vibrates that creates a wave form the nunporul becomes 8x8 structure and then 9x9 structure that forms swastika the 8x8 structure is transformed to 9x9 and then to a circle. the 8x8 structure of the nunporul is called kanasathuram and the circle is called kan'asathuram.this is the first proces the veda named kana'sathuram as ganapathy the 9x9 structural cube which still exist inside this circle is named in vedas as shanmuga. this is how the pirazhnava ie the twisted nine has been changed to pranava veda and the science to hindu god names.
Mudaliar

Bangalore, India

#1816 Dec 28, 2013
shruthi wrote:
<quoted text> yes both sanskrit and Tamil lived in our country for ages. Not only these two there were many languages in ancient times which did not survive.so Tamil language was created by sage agastya. There is a story that he crossed vindyas and went there and populized that area. You can read agastya rishi story and he is mentioned in ramayana. When lord rama was in forest in exile, he went to meet him. Even if you coins published in Tamil kingdoms were both in Sanskrit and tamil. It is been found. And Aryan theory is a myth which has been used by Britishers to divide and rule. More divided we are more weak we are and their formula worked too. It made them easy to rule.the scholars for south were also well in Sanskrit. Well as per new genetic findings it is found that first human developed was in Africa and nearly 80000 years back they came to india and then from here nearly 30000 years back they moved to other parts like Europe etc. And the changes in appearance are due to climatic conditions. Mutations might have happend. Recent example of mutation is a different kind of butterfly has originated in Japan due to atomic blast. You can read about it. Albanism is common in animals too.
Clarification needed for the following from Shuruthi and Jacob

1.What period we find Coins with Sanskrit and Tamil?
2. When Grantham letters were used in Tamil region?
3. When Brahmi Tamils inscriptions were used? before Asoka or after Asoka?
4. Is it true that there were no Sanskrit letters during Asoka ?
5. When Devanagari became modern /classical Sanskrit scripts.?
6. What proof we have that Mayan^s Aintiram is 10000 years old?
7. Aintiram Tamil ? how was it written? from when?
jacob tirunelveli

Kolkata, India

#1817 Dec 30, 2013
the term aryan is not a new word. we have lot of references in sangam literatures about aryans. before the brahmins came to india. india was classified into two states. the northern india was aryar nadu and the southern india was dravidar nadu. we have references to this there is a poem in kurunthogai "villon kaalana kazhale thodiyon, melladi melavunj silambe nallor, yaarko laliyar thaame y'aariar, kayiraadu paraiyir kaalporak kalangi, vaagai vennet trolikkum, veipayi lazhuvi munniyore" in this poem it is said about the ariar koothu. that means the ariar perform dance on a rope that is tide between two poles. this ariar koothu is done by nats in india nowadays. if we trace their origin itis said that they are one of the rajputs of ancient time. the reference to ariar is also seen in silapatikaram and kambar ramayanam. so, it is clear that rajput are the ariars and they ruled north india in ancient period. there are lot of references explaining the relationship of the rajputs and he tamis. in mahabharatha it is said that viswamithrar who was a kshatrya(rajput,ariar) fought against vasista who came from beyond the mount abu. viswamitrar received deadliest weapons from the southern island kings. after a long time it is said that viswamithrar was converted to brahmin. the language of rajputs is prakrut. prakrut is a group of language 1.adhdhamagahi,2.shourseni,3.m arhatti,4,apbransh etc. so the vadasol referred in tholkaapiyam is prakrut not sanskrit. sanskrit was derived from prakrut with the tamil grammer.
Aravinth kodi

Ashburn, VA

#1818 Dec 30, 2013
Sanskrit is indo- iranian or indo - aryan language . It means mix of two languages but our tamil is the single language. The tamil Evolution year cannot be found. Harappa & mohenjedaro peoples was spoken in tamil(Bhrami) in 3300 BCE years ago. Lemurian peoples was spoken in tamil in 70000 BC years ago.
Aravinth kodi

Ashburn, VA

#1819 Dec 30, 2013
Lord jesus was spoken in three languages. They are 'Tamil', Aramaic,
Greek
Shaludrrsss

Richmond, VA

#1820 Dec 31, 2013
Tamil
Mudaliar

Bangalore, India

#1822 Jan 1, 2014
Aravinth kodi wrote:
Sanskrit is indo- iranian or indo - aryan language . It means mix of two languages but our tamil is the single language. The tamil Evolution year cannot be found. Harappa & mohenjedaro peoples was spoken in tamil(Bhrami) in 3300 BCE years ago. Lemurian peoples was spoken in tamil in 70000 BC years ago.
Wish you all happy new year..Please provide the source . It is a pity that this forum is not addressing the main theme. i.e scientific proof. Is their any research work seriously addressed on ancient South Indian history, quoting all available sources from across the world.Unless we stop comparing with euro Greek centric, as well as north centric history, issue of Tamil language which was patronsed by Pandian kings whose timeline will not come to light to the world .Also what is being done to Tamil so that future generation will embrace in all fields.
suba

Chennai, India

#1823 Jan 1, 2014
hindu warrior wrote:
sanskrit is the oldest language in the world.tamil is not the oldest language in the world.sanskrit was created by lord siva.vedas were in sanskrit.vedas are ever exixting.they r not composed.they r called god's breath.vedas has no begining same like god.tamil came afterwards.sanskrit is the father language of all the languages of the world.tamil is not superior to sanskrit.it is very idiotic even to think tamil is superior to sanskrit.
i think u r really mad and know nothing about language do u have any proof for that first submit and talk about tamil.until dont talk rubbish untruth things
Vikram

Asia/Pacific Region

#1824 Jan 3, 2014
F**k all people who support Tamil.. Sanskrit Rocks and it is the oldest and mother of arrogant child Tamil.. Tamil s**ks all dicks of Sanskrit
Arun

Chennai, India

#1827 Jan 6, 2014
tamil is the world oldest language ...that's it
Truth

Mumbai, India

#1829 Jan 6, 2014
Arun wrote:
tamil is the world oldest language ...that's it
Are you kidding here? Even Maharashtri a dialect of Sanskrit and the ancestor of Marathi is older than Old Tamil.Vedic Sanskrit is the most oldest language in the world.Accept it..

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