Which is the Oldest Indian Language? ...
Chaste Hindu

India

#1697 Nov 25, 2013
Tamil Tiger wrote:
<quoted text>
You better believe you jerk Tamils rule!
Tamils rule? What?...
Tamil Tiger wrote:
Tamils are the original inhabitants of the subcontinent!
Who told you that buf.foon? You have any proof to back your words? The actual natives of the subcontinent are the 'ARYAS' of 'AryaVrata'. Today they are known as Hindus. They belonged to the dravidian race, an offshoot of the Caucasian race. You tamils are of neg,roid descent [Hybrids] that's why you don't look like the rest of the Hindus. The Mongolians are the same. You both are migrants who migrated to Hind for its wealth, treasures and food resources. You don't belong here.
Tamil Tiger wrote:
How dare you insult Tamil culture pride and language!
When did I insult tamil? You are the ones trying to prove tamil to be oldest language without any proofs. Stop chalking out translated words from tamil, and give credible evidence to prove your claim. If you cannot then shut your ar,se!
Tamil Tiger wrote:
Get lost and go away from this forum!
Why, do you tamils own it too? You better go to back to your africa where you and your ancestors came from!
Tamil Tiger wrote:
You are a Hindu pig
Then WTF are you doing on the land of the Hindus? This is 'HIND' not tamil nadu. And remember you and your tamil nadu is in 'Hind', the land of the 'Hindus'..
You tamil community didn't even exist when this world used to call our motherland 'Hind'. Its only ours and none else's. If you cannot digest the truth then keep your mouth shut instead of farting out BS.
Qtiyapa

India

#1698 Nov 26, 2013
Tamil Magan wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey dont get tensed from the facts..There is no evidence that tells Sanskrit is the oldest language..and for Tamil too..the older versions were lost due to flood..the last thing that exists in Tamil is Tholkappium which ages 2200B.C belonging to the last of the Sangam age and it means there were more Sangam ages before and it means more of the evidence suggesting the oldness of Tamil was last..Even more archaeologists suggest that Tamil could be the oldest of the languages..and there are Tamil Inscriptions in Nayagara Falls..there are Tamil coins unearthened from Rome,Greece,South east Europe,Mohenjadaro and Harappa..indicating the trade
Thirukkural:

Which
One of the most notable literary and ethical treatises in the Indian languages, Thirukkural, is written by Thiruvalluvar. There is a general consensus among the historians and literary authorities that Thirukkural was written around 2000 years ago.
Dr. Albert Schweitzer, Nobel Laureate, notes that,“There hardly exists in the literature of the world a collection of maxims in which we find such lofty wisdom as in Thirukkural”
Dr. G. U. Pope, a Christian Missionary and Translator of Thirukkural in English writes,“The Kural is an integral painting of a civilization which is harmonious in itself and which possesses a clearly recognizable unity."
India’s father of the nation, Mahatma Gandhi, notes,“I wanted to learn Tamil, only to enable me to study Valluvar’s Thirukkural through his mother tongue itself…. It is a treasure of wisdom…”
Interesting Facts about the Language:
Classical Hebrew terms like tuki and ahalat are close to the Tamil words tokai and akil respectively. Although English words like 'sandalwood' and 'rice' are borrowed from the Greek language, their origin, some claim, is in fact Tamil.
Even the minutest of fractions have a place in ‘Tamil’ language. Some interesting examples include the term immi referred to the fraction of 1/320 x 1/7, one-seventh of this fraction termed as anu, one-eleventh of an anu as mummi and one ninth of a mummi as kuNam.
On Why Tamil is a Classical Language:
University of California, Berkeley, holds a ‘Tamil’ Conference annually. Its Chair in Tamil Studies, Prof. George L. Hart, writes,“To qualify as a classical tradition, a language must fit several criteria: it should be ancient, it should be an independent tradition that arose mostly on its own and not as an offshoot of another tradition, and it must have a large and extremely rich body of ancient literature. Unlike the other modern languages of India, Tamil meets each of these requirements. It is extremely old (as old as Latin and older than Arabic); it arose as an entirely independent tradition, with almost no influence from Sanskrit or other languages; and its ancient literature is indescribably vast and rich.”
Tamil is the first legally recognized Classical Language of India, as formally announced by the Indian Government.
Tamil literally means="Common Speech or Way to Speak"
Which flood? All tamil books were written by modern day scholars and asked to write crap and stupidity in it. They purposely copied everything from saskrit literarture just to counter other languages.

There was a hurricane in ancient times which destroyed all sanskrit literature before Vedas. now they are not available. once found it will prove that who is old :D
jacob tirunelveli

India

#1699 Nov 26, 2013
In 2006 indian govt gave some palm leaf scripts(olai suvadi) to tamilnadu govt to translate the tamil script to english. Dr. sthapati is a vastu professionalist, and he was asked to translate those scripts. when he started to trnslate them he was shocked. because that script was written in 10000bc by a tamil scientist called mayan. he compared that scripts with the hindu vedas and found that the vedas are the imperfect transilation of that science script. It says how the empty space of the universe transformed itself to living matters like galaxy. It says nunporul(micro particle) was first in a inactive form of cube(veda names it brahma). It then activates itself and vibrates and gets the second stage of octogonal shape(veda names it vishnu). when this cube shape particle starts to create energy it becomes bigger in size of 8 times. as the energy was created as light the light beam takes a shape and it is the oli thoon(pillar of light).(veda names it siva). this process converts the micro particle into a matter. the process also makes sound waves in a form of ohm. the process of converting micro particle to matter is called chuzhi. and the end product is called ganna sathuram.(veda names it ganapathy). this script also has all the astrological datas which are memmorised and translated to vedas.

you can verify this with mr.stapathi mamallapuram. aintiram has been already published and the vaasa literature(vaastu)the original in tamil is yet to be published.
brahmins are not the natives of india. according to mr.sthapathi they were the dwellers of afganistan. they came to india along with the velir(dwellers of the lost dwaraka)after drought destroyed indus.they learnt aintiram and vaasa(vaastu) from the students of maamuni mayan. they memorised it and translated to an unknown language called sanskrit and made the indians(tamils) beleive that vedas are given by gods.
Mudaliar

Bangalore, India

#1700 Nov 27, 2013
mr.stapathi mamallapuram-may his soul R.I.P(passed away sep 6^2011.)Please be cautious when quoting something like 10000 years etc without documentary proof acknowledged by scientific community . What type of writing existed 10000 years before , neither Tamil nor Sankrit. No olaisuadi can survive for so many years even by copy for generations, and so many were carried away by Arabs, Greeks, Europeans etc. Enough of political mileage that have been already capitulated with Brahmin, non Brahmin, Aryan and non Aryan ,Dravidian etc. theory. Regarding Velirs, less said it is better. There is a Parasurama episode running for reclamation of Kerala land by throwing AXE in the sea and settled along with velirs..Even one Pandian king did the same.Velirs existed even before Muvender.Velir became Muvender etc.
Enough of this fight for antiquity. Both language existed for ages and contributed immensely. Now both will extinguish by another century and Indian , Tamilian identities will have to be rewritten and origin and root fight will be hijacked by the way globalization and IT are revolutionizing the humanity. If you love Tamil, try and do something. At least for Sanskrit there is a backing by center.Tamil is solely depended upon Tamilnadu, Sri Lanka, Malaysia and some foreign universities. Enough of blowing the trumpets.
Tell in this forum what steps are giving results in revealing the antiquity and beauty of Tamil.
How it can be also a bread winning language. I already mention sometime ago in this forum ,that 150 years back learnig tamil by Tamil thatha made him a eligible bachelor for marriage. Will those days come?
jacob tirunelveli

Bangalore, India

#1701 Nov 27, 2013
Mudaliar wrote:
mr.stapathi mamallapuram-may his soul R.I.P(passed away sep 6^2011.)Please be cautious when quoting something like 10000 years etc without documentary proof acknowledged by scientific community . What type of writing existed 10000 years before , neither Tamil nor Sankrit. No olaisuadi can survive for so many years even by copy for generations, and so many were carried away by Arabs, Greeks, Europeans etc. Enough of political mileage that have been already capitulated with Brahmin, non Brahmin, Aryan and non Aryan ,Dravidian etc. theory. Regarding Velirs, less said it is better. There is a Parasurama episode running for reclamation of Kerala land by throwing AXE in the sea and settled along with velirs..Even one Pandian king did the same.Velirs existed even before Muvender.Velir became Muvender etc.
Enough of this fight for antiquity. Both language existed for ages and contributed immensely. Now both will extinguish by another century and Indian , Tamilian identities will have to be rewritten and origin and root fight will be hijacked by the way globalization and IT are revolutionizing the humanity. If you love Tamil, try and do something. At least for Sanskrit there is a backing by center.Tamil is solely depended upon Tamilnadu, Sri Lanka, Malaysia and some foreign universities. Enough of blowing the trumpets.
Tell in this forum what steps are giving results in revealing the antiquity and beauty of Tamil.
How it can be also a bread winning language. I already mention sometime ago in this forum ,that 150 years back learnig tamil by Tamil thatha made him a eligible bachelor for marriage. Will those days come?
mr.mudaliyar this forum is to argue about tamil and sanskrit. we know how to protect tamil and we are doing it since it is born. no one or no language can destroy tamil. western language affect tamil only in chennai. tamilnadu is so bigger than chennai. come to tirunelveli, you can count the number of people who know to speak in englsh. and you can see how many sangams operating here. please dont teach us. if you have any idea about the subject please convey it. all literatures written by mamuni mayan is in tamil. pranava veda is in tamil. approved and applied by american university of mayonic science and technology. please refer the articles about aum s&t. iam not speaking without proof. if you have proof that aintiram does not belong to 10000bc you pleaase show me. i dont want your own opinion about how long olai suvadi will survive. have sense in what you are speaking.
In bhagavatam 9th skanda 14th chapter sloka 48 krishna dwipiyana(veda vyasa) who is the editor of all vedas says "eka ava pura vedah pravano sava vangmayah". that means there was the veda called pranava which existed in the unknown age. now indian govt has given that olai suvadi to tamilnadu to translate properly because the pranava veda which was rewritten in sanskrit is confusing. the olai suvadi is in tamil written by mamuni mayan. it is approved by indian govt. please dont argue without sense.
jacob tirunelveli

Bangalore, India

#1702 Nov 27, 2013
mr. mudaliar please give me the qualities of palm leaf. if you really know about it. palm leaf has the most powerful defense system in the world. according to researchers if you cover a hiding place with 2 feets of palm leaves you can survive an atomic bombs radiation from being fatal. palm leaf can not be destroyed very easily. our anscestors are not fools like your vedic anscestors. our anscestors had brain to research and invent.your anscetors had brain to fool people. there are lot of difference between them. and for people who deny the aryan invasion theory please refer the dna research of afganistan. in all vedas and also in tamil literatures it is mentioned that after the destruction of dwaraka people migrated to afganistan and pakistan. 18 kings were brought to tamil land after the drought in indus valley. the brahmins who were the dwellers of afganistan. came along with the dwaraka people. and occupied india.
Mudaliar

Bangalore, India

#1703 Nov 28, 2013
Jacob tirunelveli,
Thanks for your concern. But Tamil , if it can be made a bread and butter language I will be delighted.
I had spent over a year researching on languages,classical Sanskrit, vedic Sansskrit, distorted Euro-Greek centric history, Jainism, Buddhism, Saivaism, vaishnavism, Christianity, Catholic, Protestant etc etc.Moreover I was searching for my roots, velir, Vellalla, Mudaliar etc.So I will love to rethink my inference if you provide the links.Probably you have misunderstood my post. You may have to revisit all my posts if time permits.
Well, let us do some introspection on writing. What type Tamil script existed 10000 years ago.
I wonder even Indus script is yet to be deciphered satisfactorily, Is it mixture of Tamil, Kannada, Telugu etc etc.
Once again do not quote anything without providing some links, sources which anyone can lay hands easily..
Do you know that Tamil Brahmins colluded in rewriting the original Vedas> Where is the first edition of Max Muller translation of Vedas?
How much effort was made to rewrite Thirukkural by Christian Missionaries. Thiruvalluvar was about to be paptised ,How do we prove that Tholkappiyam was written several thousand years before Christ was born.What old records are available at various foreign Universities? for both Tamil , sanskrit, Persian, Greek etc. And how old are they?

If this discussion process can bring some proof, research reports, links etc, at least it will help future generation to value our antiquity. Aryan, in and out are already a dead theories.
Once upon a time If Tamil ruled all over the world so what? Can your Tirunelveli document the same to the world at large. It is good if passion to learn Tamil is rekindled.Ayurveda documents from Sankrit is being vigorously documented , probably over 60%, But what about Sidda, I belive hardly we have scratched the surface even.Once again do not bring politics,I repeat blindly trying to hate Sanskrit or belittling the same will benift the vested interests perpetually. We will lose the missing links for ever.
I am happy that Tamil literature I read 50 years before and able to see the difference in current contribution by our scholars.
But that is not enough, if Tinnelveli do not want to change, they can remain for ever in dark ages. If cat closes its eyes world is not dark.Do not hate English which is now an International language. If Chinese , Africans are mastering English why not Tinnelveli. It is better for mothertoung language given preference first with English language as link language.

Well I am digressing too much, if I have anyway disturbed your sentiment, correct me if you can.
Right now I am too busy in learnig Biological anthropology, Genomics, Secret of life etc.Hope you will take my views in true spirit and continue the hard work you are putting.
Mudaliar

Bangalore, India

#1704 Nov 28, 2013
Just out of curiosity I am posting the following
Gypsy mtDNA

The Gypsies (Romani people) originated in the Indian subcontinent and mixed with local population in the Middle East and Eastern Europe over the centuries. About half of the Gypsy population belong to haplogroup M, and more specifically M5 (reflected by Y-haplogroup H1a), which is otherwise exclusive to South Asia. The other mtDNA haplogroups found among the Gypsy community are mostly of Eastern European, Caucasian or Middle Eastern origin, such as H (H1, H2, H5, H9, H11, H20, among others), J (J1b, J1d, J2b), T, U3, U5b, I, W et X (X1b1, X2a1, X2f)(sources). The same diversity exist on the Y-DNA side (45% of H1a, followed by I1, I2a, J2a4b, E1b1b, R1b1b, R1a1a^
Any further explanation on the statement mean that ^Originated from Indian subcontinent^ Any explanation from Aryan IN Aryan OUT India groups.
I assume that Aryan invasion into India and Aryan(South Indian, Tamils etc went out of India) will take part in this discussion between Tamil and Sanskrit.Well I will have my own opinion when I complete the course on Biological Anthropology, Linguistic Anthropology etc.Any constructive comments please.
Veera Tamilan

Mumbai, India

#1705 Nov 28, 2013
mohan_frm_hyderabad wrote:
sanskrit is the oldest language . sine most of the words in sanskrit is appearing in other languages and in tamil too.
Okay bro, then why u r speaking hindi instead of sanskrit.
we are a tamilans before 2000 years we spoked tamil & now also we speaks tamil. but u guys earlier sanskrit & now hindi, dont know what u guys will speak after 500 years. but we at that time also we speaks tamil.
Qtiyapa

India

#1706 Nov 29, 2013
Veera Tamilan wrote:
<quoted text> Okay bro, then why u r speaking hindi instead of sanskrit.
we are a tamilans before 2000 years we spoked tamil & now also we speaks tamil. but u guys earlier sanskrit & now hindi, dont know what u guys will speak after 500 years. but we at that time also we speaks tamil.
yOu need to upgrade bro...U don raom around naked like people used to 10000 years back
Qtiyapa

India

#1707 Nov 29, 2013
jacob tirunelveli wrote:
In 2006 indian govt gave some palm leaf scripts(olai suvadi) to tamilnadu govt to translate the tamil script to english. Dr. sthapati is a vastu professionalist, and he was asked to translate those scripts. when he started to trnslate them he was shocked. because that script was written in 10000bc by a tamil scientist called mayan. he compared that scripts with the hindu vedas and found that the vedas are the imperfect transilation of that science script. It says how the empty space of the universe transformed itself to living matters like galaxy. It says nunporul(micro particle) was first in a inactive form of cube(veda names it brahma). It then activates itself and vibrates and gets the second stage of octogonal shape(veda names it vishnu). when this cube shape particle starts to create energy it becomes bigger in size of 8 times. as the energy was created as light the light beam takes a shape and it is the oli thoon(pillar of light).(veda names it siva). this process converts the micro particle into a matter. the process also makes sound waves in a form of ohm. the process of converting micro particle to matter is called chuzhi. and the end product is called ganna sathuram.(veda names it ganapathy). this script also has all the astrological datas which are memmorised and translated to vedas.
you can verify this with mr.stapathi mamallapuram. aintiram has been already published and the vaasa literature(vaastu)the original in tamil is yet to be published.
brahmins are not the natives of india. according to mr.sthapathi they were the dwellers of afganistan. they came to india along with the velir(dwellers of the lost dwaraka)after drought destroyed indus.they learnt aintiram and vaasa(vaastu) from the students of maamuni mayan. they memorised it and translated to an unknown language called sanskrit and made the indians(tamils) beleive that vedas are given by gods.
Please provide some refernce where Indian Govt gave those Palm leaves to Tamilnadu govt. Whatta fake stories everybody is posting here.:D bogus
jacob tirunelveli

Ahmedabad, India

#1708 Nov 29, 2013
mr. mudaliyar i have very little knowledge about kannada.that even from literatures only. when dwaraka was swallowed by sea arjuna lead the people to western region and made them settle there near the saraswathi river. indus civilisation is not a single clan of people. it is a different group of people who had lived there. we dont have history of indus valley and the dna results also are complicated and we cant come to a perfect decision on indus people. so we have to gather knowledge from the literatures we have today. i have refered all religios books and literatures regarding indus valley. this is my perception. it doesnt have to be the fact.
indus people were not gypsies because gypsies dont build temples and stay in a place for very long period. there are many different types of temples and different types of cultures seen in indus from india to afganistan.according to hindu religious books the people of dwaraka settled in the banks of river saraswati. and according to bible also jacobs family were from afganistan only. they crossed arabian deserts to reach egypt. idol worship was there in a particular group of people. and the jews group are against it . that is clear. after saraswati river dissappeared in a drought the jews went to egypt and it is said in tholkaapiyam that agathyar brought the dwaraka people from saraswati river to tamil region and made them to settle in what is now karnataka. so according to this literature kannadians are the people of dwaraka. tamils called them velir. historical proofs are there regarding velir group. and their origin.
jacob tirunelveli

Ahmedabad, India

#1709 Nov 29, 2013
and if it is true that kannada people are the dwarakans then the pure kannada language should be equal to tamil because we have dwaraka as the proof.that pure kannada must be the devanagiri language that gave birth to sanskrit.(just an assemption). if we can prove that sanskrit is derived from devanagiri language then sanskrit is not the older language comparing to kannada. we have to argue with kannada and tamil only.(if it is proved that sanskrit is derived from devanagiri )
jacob tirunelveli

Ahmedabad, India

#1710 Nov 29, 2013
Qtiyapa wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide some refernce where Indian Govt gave those Palm leaves to Tamilnadu govt. Whatta fake stories everybody is posting here.:D bogus
mr. i have given you the reference of aintiram. please visit that site and clear your doubts.
jacob tirunelveli

Ahmedabad, India

#1711 Nov 29, 2013
Qtiyapa wrote:
<quoted text>
yOu need to upgrade bro...U don raom around naked like people used to 10000 years back
10000 years ago our anscestors wore vetti and saree. not like your barbarian anscestors. whats up with you ? if you have any stuff to prove sanskrit is older than tamil give that. barking dogs wont bite you know. behave like human
Mudaliar

Bangalore, India

#1712 Nov 30, 2013
jacob
^mr. i have given you the reference of aintiram. please visit that site and clear your doubts^.
Well,
Please provide the link to make it easier to find out and read.
First clear or accept the following
1.Devanagari is a script like Grantha in South to write
the Verbally translated vedas, upanishads, puranas etc through centuries by shear memory by Brahmins at a later period but originally created by the great Rishis belonging to neither cast nor any religion.Do not bring the names like Hinduism, Sanatana Dharma etc which are the names created by Arabs to differentiate with the people belonging to Bharath and muslims and Hindu fundamentalists who are strong supporter of Sanskrit and the birth of Scriptures in Sanskrit..
2. Is Kerala land was reclaimed from sea by Parasurama
3. Did velirs became Vellalas and became Muvender?
or Vellalas were the original cultivators of land since ages if so from what period?
4. Kannada is elder sister to Tamil or daughter of Tamil?.
4. I know from whatever I have studied so for, that South Indian history has very little recognition in the world and North was more studied, researched and documented for varoious reasons including the South and North divide.
5 Where and what records we can trace the proofs that Tamil was spoken across whole globe.
6. There is a school of thought that Tamil and Sanskrit existed side by side when common people spoke Tamil and elite, kings learned Sanskrit.And Sanskrit is a coded language . That is why so many interpretations exist .
7. Both Tamil and Sanskrit have literature and grammar which are the sources for many Indian and European languages .

8. Tamil was patronized by Pandian kings who did not get due recognition in history.Because, the references came from our literatures only .

9. It is long road may take century but Internet is boon to current generation if we can apply our commonsense and trash that exists and being created by vested intersts.
10. Keep open mind and search for truth, instead of refuting other comments bluntly .Try to build constructive arguments.
11. If you cannot argue one by one , take the help of clubs and develop constructive arguments.
12. If one take time and pain from the posts of this forum as well as from another forums where arguments are more logical ,we can certainly come to a logical conclusion and rewrite the history.
13. I repeat, do not fall into the trap of Euro Greek eccentric history records as well as fundamentalists from all religions^ propaganda.

Keep up the good work .I am learning and continue to learn.
jacob tirunelveli

India

#1713 Dec 1, 2013
mr.mudaliyar i told you i dont know much about kannada and devanagiri languages. but velirs are kannadians who were the people of lord gopala(krishna).moovendars are defferent they are tamils. they basically the cholas. if you read indian history it will be written that the pandian kings ruled small villages.they are rubbish. refer international researches. read about rome turkey, greek, ancient china, and lot more you can find reference of tamils in every research. pandians were sea faring people they traded around the world. did you refer aintiram literature. it is amazing proof for tamil. sanskrits school of grammer is named after this ancient tamil book aintiram.
bala

Mumbai, India

#1714 Dec 1, 2013
tamil is the oldest language in the world,tamil language found in 5000 b.c (tholkappiyam) but there is no evidence that sanskrit is oldest language.
jacob tirunelveli

Bangalore, India

#1715 Dec 1, 2013
mr.mudaliyar it seems you are wishing that tamil will die oneday. dont even dream about that. fourth tamil sangam is going on now. iam trying my best to participate in that. iam trying to publish my poems . tamil is doing great here. more than 10 tamil channels started teaching pure tamil. vj and djs speak in pure tamil to promote pure tamil like eelam tamil. our love for tamil is an endless sea. chennai is a metro , people live there are people from all over the world. so dont figure out tamilnadu by seeing chennai.
Mudaliar

Bangalore, India

#1716 Dec 1, 2013
Again and again Jacob, you are jumping to conclusion and building arguments without providing proper links and references for any lay man to pursue. I do agree that last decade has seen documents are being uploaded and lot of effort is being put to learn Tamil.But is that enough , Are you able to make a living out of your love and devotion or younger generation are taking seriously to learn and contribute to Literature, science, history etc in such a way, Sankrit , Greek, Latin , Arab etc languages in the past and now English. Will Agasthyar^s Rananool can be practiced to help the poor and challenge modern medicine.(just an example)
Can Agasthyar^s period has been proved satisfactorily, or How many Agasthyars lived ? Who came from North ? and when? Is people taken his name and published and passed as if they were from the Sage?I do have seen the olaisuavdis have been uploaded and whether all the records available at British library(u.k) have been uploaded in Tamil virtual university web? How many web sites are available to learn about Agastyar etc.Give links and references clearly to follow up. It is nearly impossible to read and understand those old Oaisuadis. Do any group is working to to describe them in modern Tamil?. Have you ever tried to understand Tholgappiam and practice it. Is there any web site which explain the old Grammar in simple and lucid way I am just now about to complete the English Grammar through online from foreign University without spending any fees. Just internet and P.C are sufficient.I want to learn Tamil grammar too , how do I go about it. For Sankrit , it is not a problem at all. Can Tamil match the same?

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