Absolute Truth Does Not Exist

Absolute Truth Does Not Exist

Created by Brother Marine on Aug 21, 2011

87 votes

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Absolutely True

False

Normand Guay

Winnipeg, Canada

#22 Jan 13, 2013
Humblebee wrote:
Normand, so now we're "picking sides"? I thought this was a discussion regarding 'absolute truth'... Perhaps I was incorrect.
I did notice no one is able to provide a concise, consistent, clear definition of 'truth', though some people think my comments are 'clueless' and 'nuts'... and therefore 'not-truth'. I welcome ANY comments that lend themselves to rational and constructive narration.
I also noticed some people 'disagree' with my claims. That's fine. I am more than willing to amend, change or abandon any of the definitions and explanations I have provided. Simply provide your own. As long as the definitions and explanations are rational, clear, concise and consistent, I have no reservations for accepting different claims. It's easy, just provide definitions for the terms and fill in the blanks below:
exist:_________
object:_________
concept:________
truth:_________
absolute:_______
I will await your response so the constructive discussion may continue...
---Humblebee, bottom line is that, "GOD THE TRINITY AND GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS" ARE ABSOLUTE TRUTHS and there are 2 sides... WE are either on GOD'S SIDE "TRUTH" or lucifer's side "LIES" and we get to pick and then we get what we pick...Humble, I hope to meet you in the Heavenly Jerusalem...Thankyou, GOD Bless you with the Truth...
Humblebee

Sparks, NV

#23 Jan 13, 2013
Normand,

Blind assertions may seem convincing to you, but the rest of us require reasons to accept the claim 'absolute truth exists'. Since you are unwilling to provide definitions for ANY of the terms you use, I can only presume you don't understand the terms, and therefore don't know what you are talking about.

If you choose not to engage in rational discourse, that's fine. But then, why are you on this post? This is NOT a post about god, or gods, and the 10 commandments. Please stick to the topic at hand, "Does Absolute Truth Exist". I'm sure there are other threads where your convictions can be elaborated and more relevant.

Cheers...
Normand Guay

Winnipeg, Canada

#24 Jan 13, 2013
Humblebee wrote:
Normand,
Blind assertions may seem convincing to you, but the rest of us require reasons to accept the claim 'absolute truth exists'. Since you are unwilling to provide definitions for ANY of the terms you use, I can only presume you don't understand the terms, and therefore don't know what you are talking about.
If you choose not to engage in rational discourse, that's fine. But then, why are you on this post? This is NOT a post about god, or gods, and the 10 commandments. Please stick to the topic at hand, "Does Absolute Truth Exist". I'm sure there are other threads where your convictions can be elaborated and more relevant.
Cheers...
--- Humble be, IT is written that truth will set us free from the evil ones, the evil ones are sin, death, satan, demons etc...That is what Truth will do for you... Please read one page of GOD'S HOLY SCRIPTURES daily and you will find "THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH"... I am 63 years old and after reading the HOLY SCRIPTURES for close to 40 years, I can tell you that "GOD THE TRINITY AND GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE "THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH" AND JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD THE FATHER...THANKYOU...Respect your elders...
Humblebee

Sparks, NV

#26 Jan 14, 2013
Normand,
Are you still commenting on this post, just to get the last word in?
The redundancy is getting boring, but I will respond to your last comment, then let you have whatever diatribe you wish and let you alone.
"...truth will set us free..."
Truth is NOT a bailiff at the county jail. Truth is the metric we use to determine if a sentence or proposition resolves to the world. It ONLY applies to sentences and propositions, not objects or concepts.
"...from the evil ones...sin, death, satan, demons etc..."
Again, this post is about 'Does absolute truth exist?', and is NOT a Christian theology lesson. As I've mentioned in my previous post, perhaps you should visit a more appropriate thread where your religious convictions can be shared and accepted without question to their veracity.
"That is what Truth will do for you..."
I did not realize "Truth" was an action... maybe it can "do" the dishes for me, tonight.
"Please read one page of GOD'S HOLY SCRIPTURES daily and you will find "THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH"..."
Maybe one of the "ABSOLUTE TRUTHS" you are referring to would be that illness is caused by demonic possession, not disease. That is one of the "Truths" the Bible claims, by the way. If that is "true", then when you have been sick in the past, you must have first visited your local parish priest requesting exorcism for the "demons" that have caused your ailment.
It would never have crossed your mind to go, instead, to your local medical clinic and seek treatment from abject sinners who are arrogant enough to believe your quality of life is worth preserving. This is just another example of how 'believers' want to post one thing, "the bible is truth", but act differently in their day-to-day routines.
"...I am 63 years old and after reading the HOLY SCRIPTURES for close to 40 years..."
So, you know what I'm talking about...
"...I can tell you that "GOD THE TRINITY AND..."
I think I've already addressed this issue. I am not interested in your theology and doctrines. This post is about determining if "absolute truth" exists. Your assertion makes an EQUIVALENCY, NOT A DEFINITION. It tells the audience NOTHING relevant about 'absolute truth', what it means, or even if it exists.
"...Respect your elders..."
Not sure what you mean, but I can only image you might have taken offense to my, "...you don't know what you are talking about" comment. Let me reiterate, if you use terms you don't know the definitions for, how do you know what you are talking about, and are you communicating 'truth' if you don't know what it means?
Besides, if anyone should 'feel disrespected', it should be me! I have asked you on several occasions to 'please define your terms'. You have completely IGNORED my requests, but expect to be revered for your mystical insights??? Please... if you want my respect, honor my questions with answers, or go get jobs for the homeless. You would make me, and baby Jesus, very proud...
That's about it for me, Normand. Perhaps you were expecting an angry response, but none will occur from me. I believe OUR conversation has expired its usefulness...
Urgent

Provo, UT

#27 Jan 14, 2013
If you are saved and know the communion of the father, son, and Holy Ghost, you have the ABSOLUTE truth in your heart, and no one can take it away!
Humblebee

Sparks, NV

#28 Jan 14, 2013
...And here I thought blood was in my heart...

Truth does not have a location, nor does it have shape, like an object. It does not exist, so how does 'absolute truth' exist?

Appreciate the comment, Urgent, but how about DEFINING 'absolute truth', then we can determine if 'it exists'. Merely 'citing' an example of 'absolute truth' or where you think it might reside, does nothing to determine its existence. It either exists or doesn't exist, regardless of your beliefs.

After you have determined its existence, then we can explore what constitutes "absolute truth"...

The Gloop

Since: Sep 08

.

#29 Jan 14, 2013
Gloop.
Normand Guay

Winnipeg, Canada

#30 Jan 14, 2013
Humblebee wrote:
...And here I thought blood was in my heart...
Truth does not have a location, nor does it have shape, like an object. It does not exist, so how does 'absolute truth' exist?
Appreciate the comment, Urgent, but how about DEFINING 'absolute truth', then we can determine if 'it exists'. Merely 'citing' an example of 'absolute truth' or where you think it might reside, does nothing to determine its existence. It either exists or doesn't exist, regardless of your beliefs.
After you have determined its existence, then we can explore what constitutes "absolute truth"...
---Humble BE, I told you what "Truth" IS... Truth only comes from GOD and so If you do not know GOD then you will never know TRUTH... Read your Bible daily and you will find TRUTH...Thankyou, and I will not argue with you...
Hitherepeople

Richmond, KY

#31 Jan 14, 2013
Nancy Botwin wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi There.. In the sixties they introduced "New Math" which is based on the binary system. I remember there were different "bases" that yielded different answers than the math we had grown up with. For instance...2+2=8 in base 4. Well, it sure screwed me and a generation up when it came to math. Here's the wiki page on it. Hope it helps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Math
Hi Nancy,

Base-ten is the one we use; the 0 through 9 digit system.

Is base-ten mathematics 2+2=4. That is an absolute truth.

2+2=4 can never ever be disproven in base-ten mathematics; it will always equal 4 in this base.

If you want 2+2 to equal something else, then you have to move to a different base.

In Base-four, 2+2=10. This is also an absolute truth, and will always equal 10 in this base.

2+2 can equal different sums depending on the base you're using, but one thing is for certain (absolutely), it will *always* equal the same thing in the same base.

In base 10, it will always equal 4.

In base 4, it will always equal 10.

This is absolute.
Hitherepeople

Richmond, KY

#32 Jan 14, 2013
Humblebee wrote:
...And here I thought blood was in my heart...
Truth does not have a location, nor does it have shape, like an object. It does not exist, so how does 'absolute truth' exist?
Appreciate the comment, Urgent, but how about DEFINING 'absolute truth', then we can determine if 'it exists'. Merely 'citing' an example of 'absolute truth' or where you think it might reside, does nothing to determine its existence. It either exists or doesn't exist, regardless of your beliefs.
After you have determined its existence, then we can explore what constitutes "absolute truth"...
Hi Humblebee,

In light of your argument (which I can certainly appreciate), I have a question...

Do numbers exist?

Can you show me one? Show me a photo of one?

Not what you think one looks like, nor a drawing of one...but a real number...? Can I touch it, see it, smell it? Like a dog, or bird?

As far as that goes, do letters exist?

:)
Humblebee

Sparks, NV

#33 Jan 14, 2013
Hitherepeople,

What makes ANY numerical base system 'absolute'? Perhaps what you mean to say is that within an axiomatic system, derivations FROM those axioms are necessary... That I would agree with. But 'absolute' has yet to be defined, let alone your presupposition that an absolute is equivalent to an 'axiom'.

Furthermore, providing an 'example' of an absolute does not get us any closer to defining what an 'absolute' is, whether it exists or not, or how it relates to the notion of 'truth'.

To avoid misunderstanding, please provide your definitions for the following terms:

truth :_______

absolute :________

exist :_________

I've included the term 'exist' because the post begins with the assertion, "Absolute Truth Does Not Exist". It is necessary to define ALL terms, including 'existence' so that we can lay this question to rest...

Cheers!
Humblebee

Sparks, NV

#34 Jan 14, 2013
Hitherepeople,

You are on the right track! NO, numbers do not 'exist'. They do not have shape, nor location, but are concepts relating two or more objects.

And again, letters, words, statements, propositions, language, et. al. do not 'exist'. They are concepts we have formulated in order to explain the relationships between objects in the world/universe...

Great questions, keep them coming. But we should stay on the topic of 'Absolute Truth' and its "existence"...

Cheers!

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#35 Jan 14, 2013
Humblebee,

I think you may be assuming that in order for something to exist it must have a known shape and known location...

Can something exist with an unknown shape and unknown location? I think it can. Otherwise, no one/thing exists outside of ones sight! Unless you've seen your heart, you're operating on the assumption that you actually have one... ;) But the fact that you are alive is a self evident truth that you do have a heart (one that works, anyway).

I can understand how you may think this axiomatic; you having a heart. But if we look closer, being 'alive' is absolute. We use the absolute of being alive to develop the axiom of having a heart, yes?

Do we need to crack open everyone's chest to be absolutely sure that they have a heart? Of course not; having a heart can be absolute, even though we may have never seen our own.

So in a similar light, truth, although seemingly axiomatic, can be absolute - existing in an unknown shape and unknown location.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#36 Jan 14, 2013
Exist: To have actual being.

Being: The fact of existing.

Absolute: Complete.

Truth: The state or character of being true.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#37 Jan 14, 2013
Urgent wrote:
If you are saved and know the communion of the father, son, and Holy Ghost, you have the ABSOLUTE truth in your heart, and no one can take it away!
This assertion is greatly undermined by the fact that none of the adherents to this supposed truth can ever completely agree on what that truth is. Tellingly, God always thinks just like each believer does.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#38 Jan 14, 2013
Humblebee wrote:
Hitherepeople,
You are on the right track! NO, numbers do not 'exist'. They do not have shape, nor location, but are concepts relating two or more objects.
Well, Plato would probably disagree with you on that.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#39 Jan 14, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
This assertion is greatly undermined by the fact that none of the adherents to this supposed truth can ever completely agree on what that truth is. Tellingly, God always thinks just like each believer does.
This is an excellent observation!

There is much I'd like to say about it, but I'm afraid it would be pointless.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#40 Jan 14, 2013
Hitherepeople wrote:
Exist: To have actual being.
Being: The fact of existing.
Absolute: Complete.
Truth: The state or character of being true.
Thus it would be possible for truth to be absolute, but humans probably don't have the capability, even collectively, to comprehend it.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#41 Jan 14, 2013
A bit off topic here, but I think you may enjoy this, Humblebee...

http://www.creationtoday.org/category/type/vi...
don-quixote

Pompano Beach, FL

#42 Jan 14, 2013
Saying there is no absolute truth, is, well, your view of an absolute truth.

It is similar to saying "I always lie."
So if that statement is true, then the person is not always lying so the statement must be false.

You cannot state absolutely that there are no absolute truths.

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