Should Black People in the USA Leave ...

“Leading the Revolution”

Since: Oct 09

Washington, DC

#92 May 15, 2013
Johnny

Let me briefly answer a few of your questions:

Yes Africa has many different languages and cultures, yes they have different histories, all of those things are true. This is not going to stop Africa from uniting because at the of the day we are all Africans!

Now with respect to languages, that issue has already been addressed, there will be four business languages: english, french, arabic, and Swahili.

The only mission of the African Union is to make Africa one country, that's it! The main opposition to a united African Nation are all leaving power. Nigeria, South Africa, those leaders will struggle to win re-election. I say by 2017, the other issues will be resolved.

The only main issue is currency, which I think will be backed by gold, I can't imagine it happening any other way. I heard a speech by the finance minister of Senegal, and he was basically giving a status update.

As for AA, many will support and many will not, but I'll say the way the World is changing, many will be tempted to uproot. Those countries in West Africa have all of those items you mentioned. It's not a place with nothing there! Yes there are minerals, but that should not be the only reason we leave.

In closing Africa is going to unite, and many in the Diaspora are going to leave.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#93 May 15, 2013
kas91 wrote:
My Proposal for Black Separatism in the United
Race relations in the USA have always been rocky and ambivalent. Racism within the country, on the most part has not progressed and has simply adapted to suit new surroundings.
On the one hand you have White Americans, who seem to be frustrated and irritated about what they view as being a burden on the nation - the continuous plight of African Americans. Whether it's to do with the social, economic and fiscal costs of building prisons to hold Black inmates, propping up welfare payments for a relatively higher unemployed group of people or managing and rehabilitating poor Black towns and cities, everyone else ends up footing the bill.
However, I could hazard a guess that many White Americans are still too cut off and racist towards Blacks to actually understand their struggle. I also believe that many do not want to dig deep into their pockets and pay the Black man the reparations that he deserves for his contributions towards building an industrial empire and the ills suffered by him during this development process.
African Americans have broken their backs, labouring for no working wage as slaves for hundreds of years; they have fought and died in wars to defend the country's freedom, while suffering the institutional and psychological racism waged upon them by the educational system, the judicial system, the housing market and of course, the occurrence and legacy of the Jim Crow laws. Not to mention the disproportionate impact that the national "War on Drugs" policy has had on the Black community. In the process of all of this they have been taken away from their homeland and separated from their religion, language, cultural and ancestral heritage to the point that they have lost their true sense of self. In return for all of this hardship, Blacks have been recognised (politically) as human beings equal to all Whites and other races, and have been given (in some states) rights to affirmative action for the past 40 or so years. Does this all seem fair?
On the other hand, Blacks want to help themselves in becoming self-reliant and share in the "American dream" but find that in a country where Whites dominate in the economic and political spheres of life that the odds are stacked against them. Particularly given that Blacks (clearly) do not start on a level playing field against Whites.
A solution to all of this could involve partitioning a piece of land within the US for Blacks to live and settle in, where they are separate from White Americans and other ethnicities. But, this delegated region would have to be completely autonomous in its own right. It would need its own national borders, Black-run government, courts, foreign policy etc. Essentially, this land must be declared as a self-governing nation-state. At least in this way, African Americans will find themselves much closer to truly being in control of their own destiny. Albeit, some kind of financial backing and general guidance would be needed by the US government, but only in specified areas and only for a set period of time.
To clear something up, I am myself a Black person and do not intend to spread any kind of racist material or propaganda, I'm just throwing this topic out there to see what kind of response I get. What do you guys make of this? In particular, I would like to get the opinions of African Americans themselves on this topic. Also, examples of countries or regions where something such as this has already happened are welcome. I know that something similar may have happened in India with the autonomous Kashmir state and that this could link into the Jewish community of Europe and the "Road to Zion" that was found in Israel but can you think of any others?
Looking forward to getting contributions from you guys on this topic.
You can compress the most words into the smallest ideas of anyone I have ever encountered.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#94 May 15, 2013
kas91 wrote:
My Proposal for Black Separatism in the United
Race relations in the USA have always been rocky and ambivalent. Racism within the country, on the most part has not progressed and has simply adapted to suit new surroundings.
On the one hand you have White Americans, who seem to be frustrated and irritated about what they view as being a burden on the nation - the continuous plight of African Americans. Whether it's to do with the social, economic and fiscal costs of building prisons to hold Black inmates, propping up welfare payments for a relatively higher unemployed group of people or managing and rehabilitating poor Black towns and cities, everyone else ends up footing the bill.
However, I could hazard a guess that many White Americans are still too cut off and racist towards Blacks to actually understand their struggle. I also believe that many do not want to dig deep into their pockets and pay the Black man the reparations that he deserves for his contributions towards building an industrial empire and the ills suffered by him during this development process.
African Americans have broken their backs, labouring for no working wage as slaves for hundreds of years; they have fought and died in wars to defend the country's freedom, while suffering the institutional and psychological racism waged upon them by the educational system, the judicial system, the housing market and of course, the occurrence and legacy of the Jim Crow laws. Not to mention the disproportionate impact that the national "War on Drugs" policy has had on the Black community. In the process of all of this they have been taken away from their homeland and separated from their religion, language, cultural and ancestral heritage to the point that they have lost their true sense of self. In return for all of this hardship, Blacks have been recognised (politically) as human beings equal to all Whites and other races, and have been given (in some states) rights to affirmative action for the past 40 or so years. Does this all seem fair?
On the other hand, Blacks want to help themselves in becoming self-reliant and share in the "American dream" but find that in a country where Whites dominate in the economic and political spheres of life that the odds are stacked against them. Particularly given that Blacks (clearly) do not start on a level playing field against Whites.
A solution to all of this could involve partitioning a piece of land within the US for Blacks to live and settle in, where they are separate from White Americans and other ethnicities. But, this delegated region would have to be completely autonomous in its own right. It would need its own national borders, Black-run government, courts, foreign policy etc. Essentially, this land must be declared as a self-governing nation-state. At least in this way, African Americans will find themselves much closer to truly being in control of their own destiny. Albeit, some kind of financial backing and general guidance would be needed by the US government, but only in specified areas and only for a set period of time.
To clear something up, I am myself a Black person and do not intend to spread any kind of racist material or propaganda, I'm just throwing this topic out there to see what kind of response I get. What do you guys make of this? In particular, I would like to get the opinions of African Americans themselves on this topic. Also, examples of countries or regions where something such as this has already happened are welcome. I know that something similar may have happened in India with the autonomous Kashmir state and that this could link into the Jewish community of Europe and the "Road to Zion" that was found in Israel but can you think of any others?
Looking forward to getting contributions from you guys on this topic.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#95 May 15, 2013
One that note, have a wonderful day!=)

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#96 May 15, 2013
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#97 May 15, 2013
Chaumette wrote:
<quoted text>
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr.
Hmmm, that quote doesn't really do much to address the question. At least come up with a viable alternative that's different to "time will heal all wounds" and "change gone come" etc. You like to call it a small idea but seem to ignore the fact that a number of Black activists such as Garvey and Malcolm X have echoed a similar tune regarding Black separatism.

Just saying, "A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes."
- Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#98 May 15, 2013
Chaumette ---- What you typed up in your posts, you were critical of what the poster kas stated.

But, what kas typed up, was a plan for African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) upward mobility & empowerment.

Even more so, for African Americans to have a form of independence & economic solvency.

So, what was so bad about what the poster kas typed up?
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#99 May 15, 2013
Chaumette wrote:
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr.
__________

Correct, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. did state that.

But, Dr. King Jr. also stated many other points.

A few days before Dr. King Jr. was assasinated in Memphis, Tennessee. Back in early April, 1968. Dr. King Jr. stated that he was having VERY grave misgivings about integration.

Dr. King Jr. likened integration into leading African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) into a burning building.

Because of Dr. King Jr.s integration.--- African Americans LOST their banks & businesses.

African Americans lost their banks & businesses because of these 2 very critical factors.---

1. When integration came, the much smaller African American banks & businesses couldn't compete. With the much, much larger White banks & businessses.

2. When integration came, the African American masses prefered to shop at & spend their money at the White owned banks & businesses.

So, the African American banks & businesses which thrived & prospered during segregation.--- Once integration came, these African American banks & businesses went under.

In the long run, integration worked to African Americans detriment.

Malcolm X & the Jamaican born Marcus Garvey STRESSED for blacks to have independence.

Malcolm X & Marcus Garvey STRESSED for blacks to have economic independence & solvency.

Blacks having economic independence & solvency.--- Political power will then follow.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#100 May 15, 2013
dkanela --- Thanks for the quick response back.

I have to step out now. I might have some time tomorrow. If not, definitely by Saturday. Either way, I'll definitely get back to you.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#101 May 16, 2013
Johnny wrote:
<quoted text>
__________
Correct, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. did state that.
But, Dr. King Jr. also stated many other points.
A few days before Dr. King Jr. was assasinated in Memphis, Tennessee. Back in early April, 1968. Dr. King Jr. stated that he was having VERY grave misgivings about integration.
Dr. King Jr. likened integration into leading African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) into a burning building.
Because of Dr. King Jr.s integration.--- African Americans LOST their banks & businesses.
African Americans lost their banks & businesses because of these 2 very critical factors.---
1. When integration came, the much smaller African American banks & businesses couldn't compete. With the much, much larger White banks & businessses.
2. When integration came, the African American masses prefered to shop at & spend their money at the White owned banks & businesses.
So, the African American banks & businesses which thrived & prospered during segregation.--- Once integration came, these African American banks & businesses went under.
In the long run, integration worked to African Americans detriment.
Malcolm X & the Jamaican born Marcus Garvey STRESSED for blacks to have independence.
Malcolm X & Marcus Garvey STRESSED for blacks to have economic independence & solvency.
Blacks having economic independence & solvency.--- Political power will then follow.
Wow, I actually didn't know about any of this thx. Where can I find out more Johnny?
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#102 May 17, 2013
dkanela ---- You said "Yes Africa has many different languages and cultures, yes they have different histories, all of those things are true".--- Yep.

Way more so, Africa has A LOT of divisions & polarization along ideological & class lines.

Especially along ideological lines.

You said "This is not going to stop Africa from uniting because at the end of the day we are all Africans!".---- Granted, they all have African ancestry.

But, still & regardless.--- The different histories, cultures & languages.

Most of all, the ideological & class divisions.

Especially the ideological differences.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#103 May 17, 2013
dkanela ---- You said "Now with respect to languages, that issue has already been addressed, there will be four business languages: english, french, arabic, and Swahili".---- Regarding the business field, yes, I do recall reading about this back in around May, 2012.

You said "The main opposition to a united African nation are all leaving power. Nigeria, South Africa, those leaders will struggle to win re-election".---- Well, it isn't just these leaders.

There are many more black African leaders who are opposed to Africa becoming one nation.

There are many, many black Africans who are opposed to Africa becoming one nation.

Especially black Africans who live in the more economically prosperous black African nations.

Because if Africa would become one nation.--- The black Africans who live in the poorest African nations would benefit.

But, the black Africans who live in the more economically prosperous black African nations.--- This would work to their detriment.

This would work against their economic self interests.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#104 May 17, 2013
dkanela ---- You said "As for AA, many will support and many will not".--- With all due respect, I'm inclined to tilt towards the vast majority of African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) declining to migrate to Africa.

You said "Those countries in West Africa have all of those items you mentioned. It's not a place with nothing there!".---- Oh, I am totally well aware of this.

In my previous response back to you, where I listed those many different factors & variables.--- I wasn't saying that black African nations didn't have those things.

What I was implying, was if those resources would be enough to accomodate tens & tens of millions of newly arrived African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves).
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#105 May 17, 2013
dkanela ---- You said "which I think will be backed by gold. I can't imagine it happening any other way".--- I totally see your point here. I'm in agreement.

You said "The only main issue is currency".--- Well, in regards to the African leaders who want Africa to become one nation, this might be.

But, you are omitting several VERY critical factors. The MOST critical factors at this.---

Western interests.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#106 May 17, 2013
dkanela ----- You said "The only mission of the African Union is to make Africa one country, that's it!".---

Well, this might be the main goal & objective of the black African leaders who are pushing for this.

But, Africa becoming one nation is a MAJOR threat to Western interests.

dkanela, please just take some time out & evaluate what happened to ALL of the top pro African leaders.----

1. Patrice Lumumba.--- His fate.--- Overthrown & murdered.

2. George Padmore.--- His fate.--- Poisened.

3. Kwame Nkrumah.--- His fate.--- Overthrown.

Kwame wasn't murdered, but, after his overthrow.--- He carried no weight up until his death.

Other black African leaders who became a threat to Western interests.

4. Idi Amin of Uganda.--- His fate.--- Overthrown. Idi HAD to leave Uganda. After his overthrow, he carried no weight up until his death.

5. Jean-Bedel Bokassa of the Central African Republic.---- His fate.---- Overthrown. Jean-Bedel was placed under house arrest. He carried no weight up until his death.

6. Thomas Sankara of Burkina Faso.---- His fate.--- Overthrown & murdered.

7. Jonas Savimbi, the former rebel leader of Angola.---- From 1964 till 1992.--- Jonas was on very good terms with Western interests.

But, after 1992, Western interests became disillusioned with Savimbi.---- Jonas' fate.--- Murdered.

8. Laurent Gbagbo, the former president of Cote d'Ivoire.--- His fate.--- Overthrown. After his overthrow, he was seized & arrested. He is currently facing DOZENS of criminal charges at the International Criminal Court in the Hague. He is facing MULTIPLE life sentences.

It is just a matter of time.--- Laurent will be convicted.

Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#107 May 17, 2013
dkanela ---- African becoming one nation is a MAJOR, SERIOUS threat to the West.

A MAJOR, SERIOUS threat to Western interests.

Two other examples. Of leaders who were threats to Western interests.----

9. Haiti.--- Throughout the 1990s.---- Haitis left wing leader, Jean Bertrand Aristide.---

Well, to counter Aristide & Aristides supporters.---

Haitian, Dominican & Jamaican Right wing Paramilitaries / Death Squads went into full operation throughout the 1990s. Hunting down & neutralizing all of Aristides top supporters.

10. Haiti.---- Back in early February, 2004.----Jean Bertrand Aristide & Aristides support base in Haiti were considered to be too much of a threat to Western interests.

The result.---- Haitian, Dominican & Jamaican Paramilitaries / Death Squads who were based in the Dominican Republic invaded Haiti. Neutralized Haitian army Generals, army officers, security force leaders & police officers who were loyal to Aristide.

Then, Haitian, Dominican & Jamaican Paramilitaries / Death Squads neutralized all of the main politicians, union leaders, journalists & student leaders. Even certain judges & university professors were neutralized.

Next, Haitian, Dominican & Jamaican Paramilitaries / Death Squads conducted a campaign of mass neutralization of Aristides supporters. This mass killing campaign was primarily conducted in the Haitian cities of Port-au-Prince, Gonaives & Cap-Haitien.

Tens & tens of thousands of Aristides supporters were massacred. Actually, entire families were completely wiped out.

11. Libya.--- Back in early, 2011.--- Libyas leader back then, left wing dictator Muammar al Gaddafi advocated that Africa become one nation. That Africa have one currency & one military.

Well, Gaddafi openly stating this, this was an OPEN threat to Western interests.

Gaddafis fate.---- He was overthrown & murdered.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#108 May 17, 2013
dkanela wrote:
In closing Africa is going to unite.
__________

I'm going to hold off.

African leaders who are proposing Africa becoming one nation.-----Mind if I say, don't be surprised if you see these African leaders getting blocked. Or, overthrown. Or, forced to step down.

This is why.---- Africa becoming one nation.----

Is a MAJOR, SERIOUS threat to the West.

This is a MAJOR, SERIOUS threat to Western interests.

Especially a MAJOR, SERIOUS threat to Western banking & corporate interests.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#110 May 17, 2013
kas91 wrote:
<quoted text>Where can I find out more Johnny?
__________

kas, in regards to authors & other writers, I'm not sure.

I state this, because I was totally aware of that dynamic without any authors or other writers.

In the United States, it is a common view held by many, many Americans.

Especially by Americans who have some African ancestry.

In my next post, I'll expound upon this dynamic for you.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#111 May 17, 2013
kas91 wrote:
<quoted text>Where can I find out more Johnny?
__________

The Jamaican born Marcus Garvey as an example. In regards to the United States economics, integration & segregation.

Marcus Garveys dealings with the United States federal government.

This is what happened.---- Marcus Garvey wanted blacks to have their own nation &/or continent. Marcus advocated for a black nation &/or continent which was black owned & black operated.

Garvey wanted this black owned, black operated nation &/or continent to have been fully self sufficient & self supporting.

Actually & ironically, the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) supported Marcus' goals & objectives. For blacks to have their own nation &/or continent.

But, there were many OTHER Whites who were very vehemently against this.

The Whites in the United States federal government, the Whites in the Intelligence Services, the Whites in the business community, the Whites in the business lobby, the Whites in the fields of entertainment & the Whites in the fields of sports.--- Were totally against Garveys goals & objectives.

This is why.--- These Whites derived profits. OFF of African Americans.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#112 May 17, 2013
kas91 ---- "A continuation".---- About Marcus Garvey. What happened in the United States when Marcus was alive.----

Whites in businesses made money off of African Americans earning & spending power.

Whites who owned, operated & managed sports.--- Made money off of African Americans.

Whites who owned &/or operated sports stadiums.---Made money off of African Americans.

White car manufacturers made money off of African Americans.

White car dealerships made money off of African Americans.

Whites in the clothing field made money off of African Americans.

Whites in the jewelry field made money off of African Americans.

Whites in the furniture field made money off of African Americans.

Whites in the housing market made money off of African Americans.

So, Garveys plan & the Ku Klux Klans plan wasn't to be implemented.

This is why.---- Because there has been (Still are) many, many Whites who make profits off of African Americans.

Regarding Marcus Garveys organization.--- Right at the very beginning of Marcus' organization forming.--- A particular African American fraternity also formed.

It has been alleged, that several members of this particular fraternity were utilized as infiltrators into Garveys organization.

These individuals sabotaged & totally destroyed it from within.

Marcus' organization & movement was only tolerated for awhile. Until it got some traction. Then, it was SMASHED.

Actually, right from the beginning of Garveys organization forming.---- It was doomed right from the beginning.

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