Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#52 May 13, 2013
kas91 wrote:
<quoted text>
Jamaica
__________

Oh okay. Cool.

The Jamaica Labour Party (JLP) is a very good organization.

Mind if I say, you being a Jamaican, typing up posts which are sympathetic to African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves).---- What's up with that?

I pose this question, because African Americans have NEVER taken up for any Jamaican.

African Americans don't even care about themselves.

African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) don't even have respect for themselves.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#53 May 13, 2013
kas91 wrote:
<quoted text>I don't see Black people as inferior, if I did then I wouldn't think that they would have the capabilities to separate from the US and run a nation of their own..
__________

kas (With all due respect), one cannot lump all people of African descent in the same boat.

African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) are VERY much different. Compared to all of the other respective groups.

This is the deal.---- African Americans do dominate in American basketball & in some positions in American football.

In American football, African Americans dominate as wide receivers, running backs, cornerbacks & defensive linemen.

There are some good African American comedians, actors, actresses & singers.

There are some other "professional" African Americans.

Dr. Ben Carson is a capable, competent & good African American.

But, Dr. Ben Carson is the very RARE exception among African Americans.

The reality is that most African Americans CANNOT function or survive on their own.

African Americans like the side benefits of the United States capitalist system.

African Americans like the welfare & other entitlements which this nations capitalist system provides.

African Americans like the public sector jobs which our nations capitalist system provides.

African Americans do NOT like the competition in the United States capitalist system. Because most African American cannot compete with other Americans in this nations capitalist system.

For one to succeed in the United States capitalist system requires drive, discipline, motivation, commitment, competence, dedication, goals, ambition, desire, work ethic, morals, decency & family values.

In addition, valuing education, law & order.

All traits & attributes which most African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) lack.

Most African Americans need help from other Americans for their functioning & survival.

Most African Americans NEED help from American governmental entities at the federal, state & local levels.

For aid & for jobs.

Most African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) just CANNOT function or survive on their own.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#54 May 13, 2013
kas91 wrote:
<quoted text>the Confederate States were willing to go to war with their fellow Americans and even considered seceding from the USA for the sake of maintaining this status quo.
__________

Somewhat true. Primarily not true.

American slavery was NOT at the forefront of the United States Civil War being fought.

What was at the forefront of the outbreak & what was the factor of the United States Civil War being fought for its duration was this.--

Rivalry between the banking & big business interests of the Northern states. Against the banking & big business interests of the Southern states.

In addition, as it pertained to the undeveloped western states.

These were the factors which were at the forefront of the outbreak of the United States Civil War.

These were the factors which were at the forefront of the Civil War being fought throughout its duration.

Actually, at the outbreak of the Civil War.--- Leading up until the Battle of Gettysburg. Which was fought from July 1-3.---- The Southern states could have come to a negotiated settlement with the United States president back then, Abraham Lincoln.

But, the Southern states didn't, because the Southern leaders still thought that they could have achieved a large tactical victory on the battlefield. Where the Southern leaders could have forced the Union leaders to accept Southern independence.

Also, to hand over some Northern territory which had substantial industry. Primarily territory in Northern Maryland, some territory in Pennsylvania & some territory in New York State.

Abraham Lincoln was NO "friend" to the African American slaves.

In my next posts, I'll expound upon this dynamic.

“Leading the Revolution”

Since: Oct 09

Washington, DC

#55 May 13, 2013
Johnny

I beg to differ with you on the point you made about AA and Jamaicans, we actually do support one another. AA have to regain their African roots, as for a separate nation, why not just blend into one already established. We are already recognized as the sixth region of the African Union, and have the right to petition Africa for the right to come home and acquire land. Just because the information is not getting to all AA slowly but surely there is a huge awakening movement going on now. AA are starting to wake up, and don't be surprised if you start to seeing AA leaving this country in masses. That day is coming, probably after 2017,when Africa becomes one country. The United States of Africa or USA, look out for it!
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#56 May 13, 2013
kas91 wrote:
<quoted text>the Confederate States were willing to go to war with their fellow Americans and even considered seceding from the USA for the sake of maintaining this status quo.
__________

American slavery was NOT at the forefront of the outbreak of the United States Civil War.

American slavery was NOT at the forefront of the Civil War being fought for its duration.

Examples which show this.----

Politically, Abraham Lincoln could NOT have outwardly said that the North was fighting the Civil War due to Northern banking & business interests.

Abraham put forward the Emancipation Proclamation back in January 1, 1863.

This respective date, was well AFTER the start of the Civil War.

Lincoln put forward the Emancipation Proclamation as a rallying cry for the North.

Abraham did this, to make it look like the Norths "cause" in fighting the Civil War was "just" & "noble".

Lincoln putting forward the Emancipation Proclamation.--- This made it outwardly look as if the Norths "cause" in fighting the Civil War was "just".

In addition, the timing of Abraham putting forward the Emancipation Proclamation.---- The Norths armies were not doing well at all in the Eastern theater of operations.

So, Lincoln & the armies of the North NEEDED a rallying cry.

Here's another factor as to why Abraham put forward the Emancipation Proclamation.--- To keep England & France from supporting the Confederate forces.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#57 May 13, 2013
kas91 wrote:
<quoted text>the Confederate States were willing to go to war with their fellow Americans and even considered seceding from the USA for the sake of maintaining this status quo.
__________

The institution of legal American slavery was NOT at the forefront.

Another example.--- What the United States president back then, Abraham Lincoln stated about the African American slaves.

Abraham issued these statements at the exact, same time that he issued the Emancipation Proclamation.

To show that Lincoln was NO "friend" to the African American slaves.

This is what Abraham stated.----

"I have urged the colonization of the Negroes back to Africa, and I shall continue. My Emancipation Proclamation was linked with this plan of colonization. There is no room for two distinct races of Whites and Blacks...I can think of no greater calamity than the assimilation of the negro into our social and political life as our equal...Within twenty years we can peacefully colonize the Negro...under conditions in which he can rise to the full measure of manhood. This he can never do here. We can never attain the ideal union our fathers dreamed, with millions of an alien, inferior race among us, whose assimilation is neither possible nor desireable".

The United States mainstream media, when reporting on Abraham Lincoln.---- They make Abraham to be a really liberal, open minded, tolerant & enlightended dude.

But, in reality, Lincoln was absolutely nothing of the sort.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#58 May 13, 2013
kas91 wrote:
<quoted text>the Confederate States were willing to go to war with their fellow Americans and even considered seceding from the USA for the sake of maintaining this status quo.
__________

Last points. Which show that American slavery was not at the forefront of the United States Civil War being fought.-----

Abraham Lincoln, & pretty much all of the Republican & Democrat politicians in Washington D.C. back then did not consider the African American slaves to be "equal".

Abraham even made a comment during his presidency, where he stated.---

"That the only way that Whites & Negroes could get along would be if they'd be an ocean apart".

There was an incident during Lincolns presidency, where he was watching some young African American kids doing a theatrical play. Abraham made an outward comment where he said ---- "Ha, are these little monkeys funny".

Lincoln, & pretty much all of the Republican & Democrat politicians in Washington D.C. back then were in favor of rounding up & deporting African Americans.

But, when the Civil War ended.--- Due to Abrahams assassination & due to the high financial costs which would have been involved of rounding up & deporting, the deportation plan was then shelved.

So, American banking & business interests & also the politicians in Washington D.C. back then.--- Decided to use the newly freed African Americans as a cheap labor supply in agriculture & in industry. Maybe, as a voting bloc.

Had the deportation plan went forward, these areas would have taken in the deported African Americans.---

The nation of Haiti. Also, areas in what are now the present day nations of Guyana, Belize & Panama.

The African Americans who were destined to be deported to Panama, were to be utilized to contruct a canal. This was decades before work ever began on the modern canal in Panama.

But, the main nation which was to take in most of the African American slaves was the black West African nation of Liberia. Liberia was actually created by the United States federal government back in 1821. Specifically for this purpose.

This was decades even before the United States Civil War happened.
Sharkey

Vallejo, CA

#59 May 13, 2013
kas91 wrote:
My Proposal for Black Separatism in the United
Race relations in the USA have always been rocky and ambivalent. Racism within the country, on the most part has not progressed and has simply adapted to suit new surroundings.
On the one hand you have White Americans, who seem to be frustrated and irritated about what they view as being a burden on the nation - the continuous plight of African Americans. Whether it's to do with the social, economic and fiscal costs of building prisons to hold Black inmates, propping up welfare payments for a relatively higher unemployed group of people or managing and rehabilitating poor Black towns and cities, everyone else ends up footing the bill.
However, I could hazard a guess that many White Americans are still too cut off and racist towards Blacks to actually understand their struggle. I also believe that many do not want to dig deep into their pockets and pay the Black man the reparations that he deserves for his contributions towards building an industrial empire and the ills suffered by him during this development process.
African Americans have broken their backs, labouring for no working wage as slaves for hundreds of years; they have fought and died in wars to defend the country's freedom, while suffering the institutional and psychological racism waged upon them by the educational system, the judicial system, the housing market and of course, the occurrence and legacy of the Jim Crow laws. Not to mention the disproportionate impact that the national "War on Drugs" policy has had on the Black community. In the process of all of this they have been taken away from their homeland and separated from their religion, language, cultural and ancestral heritage to the point that they have lost their true sense of self. In return for all of this hardship, Blacks have been recognised (politically) as human beings equal to all Whites and other races, and have been given (in some states) rights to affirmative action for the past 40 or so years. Does this all seem fair?
On the other hand, Blacks want to help themselves in becoming self-reliant and share in the "American dream" but find that in a country where Whites dominate in the economic and political spheres of life that the odds are stacked against them. Particularly given that Blacks (clearly) do not start on a level playing field against Whites.
A solution to all of this could involve partitioning a piece of land within the US for Blacks to live and settle in, where they are separate from White Americans and other ethnicities. But, this delegated region would have to be completely autonomous in its own right. It would need its own national borders, Black-run government, courts, foreign policy etc. Essentially, this land must be declared as a self-governing nation-state. At least in this way, African Americans will find themselves much closer to truly being in control of their own destiny. Albeit, some kind of financial backing and general guidance would be needed by the US government, but only in specified areas and only for a set period of time.
To clear something up, I am myself a Black person and do not intend to spread any kind of racist material or propaganda, I'm just throwing this topic out there to see what kind of response I get. What do you guys make of this? In particular, I would like to get the opinions of African Americans themselves on this topic. Also, examples of countries or regions where something such as this has already happened are welcome. I know that something similar may have happened in India with the autonomous Kashmir state and that this could link into the Jewish community of Europe and the "Road to Zion" that was found in Israel but can you think of any others?
Looking forward to getting contributions from you guys on this topic.
Nice try on your "proposal" but your "Reeducation Plantation for blacks" idea will never fly.

Now why don't you go live on your own planet?
Sharkey

Vallejo, CA

#60 May 13, 2013
Johnny wrote:
<quoted text>
__________
The institution of legal American slavery was NOT at the forefront.
Another example.--- What the United States president back then, Abraham Lincoln stated about the African American slaves.
Abraham issued these statements at the exact, same time that he issued the Emancipation Proclamation.
To show that Lincoln was NO "friend" to the African American slaves.
This is what Abraham stated.----
"I have urged the colonization of the Negroes back to Africa, and I shall continue. My Emancipation Proclamation was linked with this plan of colonization. There is no room for two distinct races of Whites and Blacks...I can think of no greater calamity than the assimilation of the negro into our social and political life as our equal...Within twenty years we can peacefully colonize the Negro...under conditions in which he can rise to the full measure of manhood. This he can never do here. We can never attain the ideal union our fathers dreamed, with millions of an alien, inferior race among us, whose assimilation is neither possible nor desireable".
The United States mainstream media, when reporting on Abraham Lincoln.---- They make Abraham to be a really liberal, open minded, tolerant & enlightended dude.
But, in reality, Lincoln was absolutely nothing of the sort.
Sorry, buddy, your "proposal" for "The Black Reeducation Plantation" will never fly.

Why don't you take your ass to another planet?
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#61 May 13, 2013
kas91 wrote:
<quoted text>Going by your logic is to say that if a bank lent millions of dollars to a business over a certain period of time, and that business repaid the bulk of it, say, 60-80% then that bank should be given a pat on the back for writing off or suspending repayment of the deficit. The bank is clearly still winning in all of this, would the bank be happy if that business decided to go and move on to another bank tomorrow? No, because despite their credit history not being perfect if that business goes they still lose millions in custom.
__________

Your points above about the bank & business.--- I do see your premise.

But, it is still different from African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) claims for reparations.

Your analogy above, as it pertains to African Americans claims for reparations.---- Is like comparing an apple with a steak.

The dynamic is different.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#62 May 13, 2013
kas91 wrote:
<quoted text>A better example which may hit closer to home for you could be the current trade relationship between US and China. Every year China is financing the US's trade deficit to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars (please do correct me if this figure is exaggerated), clearly one country is paying more into this relationship than the other. Nevertheless do we follow the logic suggested by you and say that China is "helping" the US by doing, they "paid their reparations"? No, we're not silly enough to fall for that, it's clearly in China's interest to ensure that the USA as the world's largest economy is in the best shape that it can possibly be in to help foster global economic stability, is this beginning to make any sense?
__________

kas, your analogy above about Chinas trade relationship with the United States.--- This is still quite different from African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) claims for reparations.

With all due respect, it is like comparing an orange with a lobster.

The dynamic is different.

Your point above about China financing the United States trade deficit.---

You are correct.

But, there is much, much more to this.

This is the deal.--- China has issued what correlates to a form of low grade world bond to the United States federal government.

The Chinese government has absolutely NO way of enforcing this.

The United States federal government, Israeli government & the United Kingdoms government are very well invested in China.

Examples of this.---

1. The American Apple & Microsoft are well invested in China.

2. All of the biggest Israeli & British corporations are very well invested in China.

3. Way before Chinas government concluded trade agreements with these respective black, Sub-Saharan African nations.--- Ghana, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Kenya & Ethiopia.----

The United States federal government, Israeli government & British government had the FIRST pick with these black African nations.

But, the United States federal government, Israeli government & British government DELIBERATELY set very high interest rates with these black African nations.

Even with China concluding trade agreements with these black African nations.--- The United States federal government, Israeli government & British government maintain the core weight with these black African nations.

This is how.--- Via banking funds.

One such example is via the Vulture Funds.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#63 May 13, 2013
Sharkey wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry, buddy, your "proposal" for "The Black Reeducation Plantation" will never fly.
Why don't you take your ass to another planet?
__________

Uh, excuse me, what are you talking about?

My previous post which you quoted & were responding to, I was responding back to the poster kas. The points which I typed up, were in reference to what Abraham Lincoln & what the other politicians in Washington D.C. back then proposed for the newly freed African American slaves.

Never once did I state any such points about any such "Black Reeducation Plantation".
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#64 May 13, 2013
kas91 wrote:
<quoted text>the current trade relationship between US and China. Every year China is financing the US's trade deficit.
__________

True. But, there is much, much more involved with this dynamic.

Even with China doing this, the United States is still way, way ahead of China.

A comparison of China with the United States.----

Granted, China has been experiencing economic growth. But, Chinas economic growth has been VERY superficial.

The ONLY reason why China has more money than say, a European nation such as Estonia is because of this critical factor.--- China has over 1.4 billion people.

Less than 25% of Chinas population is comprised of a middle class. A middle class according to the standards of Chinas left wing communist dictatorship.

This is not according to the economic standards of the United States federal government.

This is also not according to the economic standards of any respective European government.

The average Chinese person who lives in China is paid way, way less. Than what even a Grenadian citizen who lives in Grenada is paid.

Chinas Gross Domestic Product is not even six trillion.

Chinas Gross Domestic Product isn't even half of what the United States Gross Domestic Product is.

Chinas per capital Gross Domestic Product on average, is very low.

In addition, there are over 300 million Chinese citizens in China who live on LESS than one dollar per day.

I list these examples to show.---- That China still lags very, very far behind the United States. In every sector.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#65 May 13, 2013
kas91 wrote:
<quoted text>
But really, how does one actually pinpoint how and when reparations have been fully paid?
__________

Very good question.

I'm sure that most African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) feel that they are owed reparations.

But, clearly, the vast, vast majority of White-Americans think & feel that everything is squared up & settled.

I point this out, to show, that this is yet another instance of where African Americans & White-Americans are looking at an issue. But, through a very different prism.

Of where African Americans & White-Americans are not on the same page.

Of where there is yet MORE division & polarization between African Americans & White-Americans in the United States.

It is yet another instance, as to why African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) & White-Americans will never be close in this nation.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#66 May 13, 2013
kas91 wrote:
<quoted text>
But really, how does one actually pinpoint how and when reparations have been fully paid?
__________

kas.--- Don't wait for the United States federal government to pay reparations.

This is why.---- Back in 1989, was the first time that the topic of reparations was brought up in the House of Representatives. By an African American Congressman from the Democratic Party.

From 1989 till now, on several occasions (For a very short period of time).--- The topic of reparations has been mentioned, discussed & debated on the United States mainstream television news venues.

From 1989 till now, absolutely NO headway has been made in regards to reparations.

I wouldn't doubt, that our nations president, Democrat Barack Obama, deep down, is in favor of reparations.

But, never once has Barack ever pushed for reparations.

Obama has never once ever pushed for reparations, because he realizes that it won't be happening.

If reparations was to happen, it would have happened back in the early 1990s. But, it didn't.

Reparations won't be happening.

Bottom line.---- African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) are on their own in the United States. African Americans only have themselves in this nation. That's it.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#67 May 13, 2013


dkanela --- I have to step out now. Hopefully, I should have some time by Thursday. Either way, I'll definitely get back to you.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#68 May 13, 2013
Johnny wrote:
<quoted text>
__________
Your points above about the bank & business.--- I do see your premise.
But, it is still different from African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) claims for reparations.
Your analogy above, as it pertains to African Americans claims for reparations.---- Is like comparing an apple with a steak.
The dynamic is different.
Not really, the principles are still the same. If anything it's even worse because the reparations relate to what the USA owes to AAs while in the case of the bank it owes nothing to noone but still relies on borrowers to survive as an entity.

Please do explain how in principle the dynamic is different please.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#69 May 13, 2013
Johnny wrote:
dkanela --- I have to step out now. Hopefully, I should have some time by Thursday. Either way, I'll definitely get back to you.
Ahh look forward to speaking then, you've contributed alot to this topic, regardless of whether we agree or not.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#70 May 13, 2013
Sharkey wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry, buddy, your "proposal" for "The Black Reeducation Plantation" will never fly.
Why don't you take your ass to another planet?
How is this "The Black Reeducation Plantation"?

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#71 May 13, 2013
Max wrote:
Black people creating their own country. Hahaha. When did they take up arms and fight? Only for their republican white landlords, back in the 19 th century up to today in the US military.
But you don't disagree with the point that it should be done, no?

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