warning - frankie goes to hellywood

warning - frankie goes to hellywood

Posted in the Top Stories Forum

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#1 Dec 25, 2013
"For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones..." Mark 13

OPINION

Relax guy. Kick off those hot, stinky shoes... pet the dog or cat, get something in the kitchen to eat and just sit... no... "relax" in front of the big screen or your laptop display. Let the RF signals (radio frequencies which are a form of invisible light) just stream in audio/visually. Entertain your brain. Massage those brainwaves. A little manipulation doesn't hurt.... A little bit of Will & Grace? <<<switch channel>>> ...how about watching a science discovery about a gay gene found in male fruit flies... no, er... <<<switch channel>>> Glee...no. Modern Family, <<<gee whiz>>>...no. <<<switch channels...>>> "XENA!!!!!! The Warrior Princess!...YESSSSSS. Yes. Yes. Yes." You congratulatory say to yourself while punching the air... remote in hand.

So while just a minority 2-4% of the U.S. population is said to be lbgtq (lesbian, bi, gay, trans, queer or questioning)... they have a very strong influence in what is now deemed as the "new media". In the case of the homosexual rights agenda here in the U.S., the media plays largely, an extremely important role in influencing a majority of Americans and their perceptions of homosexuality via positive lenses through what is called "mass media consumption"... AKA the time-proven method called * "brainwashing" *.

Have you ever wondered how people that you've known very well, who were once strongly supportive of traditional marriages only, now have over the years suddenly become supportive of gay marriage & in general, homosexuality? Brainwash.


Ever wondered why your college kid may suddenly think that he's gay? Brainwash. Okay. You don't like the term brainwash? Social Engineering, Socialization or whatever tickles your fancy.

Ever wondered how you keep hearing "stop the hate" from gay or straight people (when you really don't hate, you simply support traditional marriages) or have you ever wondered how suddenly the new fad thing is to be called a bigot for those who don't agree with the homosexual agenda? Brainwash.

Sound crazy? Think again. And again. And again. Same-gender loving organizations have the hordes of hell, I mean, hordes of cash to sway media. Professional Media Analysts know how to reach a certain demographic of people and many different socio-economic backgrounds. And overwhelmingly, they know how to train you how to think. Interestingly, with various media models, they can teach straight people "what to think" about gay marriage & the like.

To those Christians who are on the fence on the issue:

"You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil...the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God." Ephesians 2

http://www.gatecreepers.com/entries/23-tools-...

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#2 Dec 26, 2013
Matthew 7:15-23. Good luck with your version of Christianity, the book says you are going to need it. Whether self-professed Christians like you agree or not, God loves his lesbian and gay children just as He created us to be.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#3 Dec 27, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
Matthew 7:15-23.
Rick, let's expand this scripture:

"“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

True and False Disciples

“Not everyone who says to me,‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, BUT THE ONLY ONE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day,‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly,‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

********

Rick, it is true that false prophets are rampant on the earth. It is a person who preaches false doctrine. If a person disagrees with the New Testament then obviously that is there choice. But if they proclaim something to other people other than what is contained in the heart of scripture then they are proclaiming something falsely.

In the particular instance of homosexuality or some other fornication, scripture clearly says that it sinful. If a professed Christian proclaims that homosexuality or other fornication is not sin... or if they lend specific support (example: like voting for gay marriage) or by upholding the continuation of these sins... then in this particular instance, they are proclaiming falsely and that is what makes them a false prophet in this instance.

Here is what one of the scriptures says concerning fornication: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality" I corinthians 6:9

Wake up Rick... please don't be deceived. Any one who proclaims something other than the scripture is not in the Will of God in this particular instance. They are an evildoer.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#4 Dec 27, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
Good luck with your version of Christianity, the book says you are going to need it. Whether self-professed Christians like you agree or not, God loves his lesbian and gay children just as He created us to be.
It is true that God loves you Rick. And God also does love all those who made their own choice to live a gay lifestyle. He loves everyone but He doesn't love sin.

You see, God cannot lie. He didn't lie to Adam & Eve and He certainly isn't going to lie for us. The wages for sin is death... and particularly the 2nd death, and God has to judge sin.


He truly doesn't want us to be destroyed forever. We can see His mercy in our own lives. But from an eternal perspective, that is why He sent His Son... to die "for us" and our sins. And only those who come to TRUST in Him will be saved if they continue to do the Will of God. Being saved doesn't give one a license to sin. But if one is doing the will of God but that person slips up... and that person repents by truly being sorry for the sin and forsaking it then that person will be forgiven. But if that person just sins willy nilly without any remorse then that person will not be forgiven at the Judgement. These things I can back up through scripture.

If you believe in Once Saved Always Saved... then you are believing something that was proclaimed falsely.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#5 Dec 27, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>Rick, let's expand this scripture:
"“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
True and False Disciples
“Not everyone who says to me,‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, BUT THE ONLY ONE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day,‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly,‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
********
Rick, it is true that false prophets are rampant on the earth. It is a person who preaches false doctrine. If a person disagrees with the New Testament then obviously that is there choice. But if they proclaim something to other people other than what is contained in the heart of scripture then they are proclaiming something falsely.
In the particular instance of homosexuality or some other fornication, scripture clearly says that it sinful. If a professed Christian proclaims that homosexuality or other fornication is not sin... or if they lend specific support (example: like voting for gay marriage) or by upholding the continuation of these sins... then in this particular instance, they are proclaiming falsely and that is what makes them a false prophet in this instance.
Here is what one of the scriptures says concerning fornication: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality" I corinthians 6:9
Wake up Rick... please don't be deceived. Any one who proclaims something other than the scripture is not in the Will of God in this particular instance. They are an evildoer.
You thought that quoting an English translation of the Bible, which had to be deliberately mistranslated from the oldest known copies of the work, in order to refer to homosexuality, was going to be convincing? I'm so sorry. The last group on Paul's hit list of those not entitled to the kingdom of heaven were someone he referred to as being arsenokoites. The Greeks who copied the epistles had words for same sex sexual acts and even for those who committed them. Homosexuality, though in existence, wasn't seen as an "identity", even heterosexuals engaged in same sex acts, it might even be your civic, military, religious or social obligation. Arsenokoites is not a word that those reading it would have recognized as covering any of that. The problem is, it's a word which appears only in early Greek versions of the epistles to the Church in Corinth and Timothy. There are no other known uses of the word to compare its translation. It's a unique hybrid of man and bed. For early Christians, all sex was sin, it was forgivable by God if it was for procreative purposes only and only then if you got married after you did it. Anything and everything that didn't or couldn't lead to the miracle of reproduction, fornication and strictly off limits, regardless of the sex of the participants. Paul was unlikely singling out same sex activities in his epistles, he had already condemned fornication and it's known that this verse was being taught as a condemnation of those fornicating by themselves. Christians, understandably, have distanced themselves from the fundamentals of Paul's teachings about sex for themselves.

THAT is how you tell the difference between true prophets and false ones. It's called thinking for yourself, you might try it some time.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#7 Dec 27, 2013
If you want to worship a God who hates, that's your problem, not mine. That's your unfortunate lifestyle choice and while I have to respect your right to it, I don't have to have to do any more than accept you, I don't have to kowtow to you.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#8 Dec 28, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>You thought that quoting an English translation of the Bible, which had to be deliberately mistranslated from the oldest known copies of the work, in order to refer to homosexuality, was going to be convincing? I'm so sorry. The last group on Paul's hit list of those not entitled to the kingdom of heaven were someone he referred to as being arsenokoites. The Greeks who copied the epistles had words for same sex sexual acts and even for those who committed them. Homosexuality, though in existence, wasn't seen as an "identity", even heterosexuals engaged in same sex acts, it might even be your civic, military, religious or social obligation. Arsenokoites is not a word that those reading it would have recognized as covering any of that. The problem is, it's a word which appears only in early Greek versions of the epistles to the Church in Corinth and Timothy. There are no other known uses of the word to compare its translation. It's a unique hybrid of man and bed. For early Christians, all sex was sin, it was forgivable by God if it was for procreative purposes only and only then if you got married after you did it. Anything and everything that didn't or couldn't lead to the miracle of reproduction, fornication and strictly off limits, regardless of the sex of the participants. Paul was unlikely singling out same sex activities in his epistles, he had already condemned fornication and it's known that this verse was being taught as a condemnation of those fornicating by themselves. Christians, understandably, have distanced themselves from the fundamentals of Paul's teachings about sex for themselves.
THAT is how you tell the difference between true prophets and false ones. It's called thinking for yourself, you might try it some time.
Rick, concerning the Greek word ARSENOKOITES that is used in I Corinthians 6:9 which you made mention of in your former post ... it isn't just a word that was used by Paul, but it was also used by elders who transliterated the Hebrew Tanakh (the Jewish Bible, basically) into Greek. That same Greek word that you made mention of can be found in the Greek Septuagint in Levitcus 20:13:

"kai os an koim&#275;th&#275; meta ARSENOS KOITEN gunaikos bdelugma epoi&#275;san amphoteroi thanatousth&#333;san enochoi eisin"

http://biblehub.com/sept/leviticus/20.htm

Leviticus 20:13 transliterated from Greek to English says:

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."


As you can see Rick, the Jewish Elders' use of the Greek word matches Paul's use of the Greek word for a person man who sleeps with another man. There is no disharmony between the Elders' use and Paul's use of the word. The Septuagint was transliterated by these elders 200-300 years before Paul was even born.

Undeniably, based upon earlier references.... Arseno (man) koites (bedder or laying with)... is referring to homosexuals. I Corinthians 6:9 still stands in regards to the homosexual instance. So unless there is true repentance of that particular behavior (along with the other instances mentioned in that verse 9, homosexuals also will not enter into the God's Kingdom).

********

By the way, going on old mem... but the reason why they had transliterated the Hebrew Bible to Greek is because the younger generation Jews was so infused with Greek culture that many had a hard time reading Hebrew except for the more conservative Jews... so that is why they translated to the greek. There is more to that story of course.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#9 Dec 28, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
If you want to worship a God who hates, that's your problem, not mine. That's your unfortunate lifestyle choice and while I have to respect your right to it, I don't have to have to do any more than accept you, I don't have to kowtow to you.
Again, God doesn't hate you personally... but He does hate sin. I don't mean to say this lightly... but if we mess up... we have Jesus Christ as our Advocate. When we repent (turn around and go the right way) then He will forgive us because of what Jesus accomplished. If we continue our strut in pride... ignoring God's loving chastisement then we will perish. Obviously we are free to make our own choices but all choices have consequences.

One day, all of us will kow tow before Christ and give an accounting of ourselves and our choices.

Love Quin

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#10 Dec 28, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
Rick, concerning the Greek word ARSENOKOITES that is used in I Corinthians 6:9 which you made mention of in your former post ... it isn't just a word that was used by Paul, but it was also used by elders who transliterated the Hebrew Tanakh (the Jewish Bible, basically) into Greek. That same Greek word that you made mention of can be found in the Greek Septuagint in Levitcus 20:13:
"kai os an koim&#275;th&#275; meta ARSENOS KOITEN gunaikos bdelugma epoi&#275;san amphoteroi thanatousth&#333;san enochoi eisin"
http://biblehub.com/sept/leviticus/20.htm
Leviticus 20:13 transliterated from Greek to English says:
"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."
According to the transcribers of Paul's work, he didn't use the Jewish euphemism for male on male bed activity. Which the Jews of the era viewed as a prohibition on Temple prostitution, by the way, given its context in the work. See Philo of Alexandria. Greek readers didn't share in this particular euphemism for male on male bed activity, they had their own, none of which Paul used and from the Jews around them, they knew their euphemism as a ban on sex in THEIR Temples, especially of the paid variety, NOT as a prohibition on all same sex sexual practices. Any version of the Bible which translates these lists in the epistles to the Church in Corinth and to Timothy to include homosexuals is willfully lying to its readers. How Christian.
Qu_innocence wrote:
As you can see Rick, the Jewish Elders' use of the Greek word matches Paul's use of the Greek word for a person man who sleeps with another man. There is no disharmony between the Elders' use and Paul's use of the word. The Septuagint was transliterated by these elders 200-300 years before Paul was even born.
Undeniably, based upon earlier references.... Arseno (man) koites (bedder or laying with)... is referring to homosexuals. I Corinthians 6:9 still stands in regards to the homosexual instance. So unless there is true repentance of that particular behavior (along with the other instances mentioned in that verse 9, homosexuals also will not enter into the God's Kingdom).
********
By the way, going on old mem... but the reason why they had transliterated the Hebrew Bible to Greek is because the younger generation Jews was so infused with Greek culture that many had a hard time reading Hebrew except for the more conservative Jews... so that is why they translated to the greek. There is more to that story of course.
I really don't mind breaking this to you again, but those Jewish Elders you are referring to, thought that their men in a bed was a reference to Temple prostitutes, it says nothing of what they thought was going on in Paul's man/bed. Reality, early Christians believed all sex, regardless of the sex and/or sexual orientation of its participants, to be a sin. Sex strictly for the purposes of procreation is easier for God to forgive, but their little tykes are still going to be born of a sin that mommy and daddy were forgiven for 9 months or so ago. Paul didn't single out same sex sexual acts in these passages, he didn't need to, they were included in fornication. What's not included in their concept of fornication is playing a solo. The most likely concept that Paul had in mind going on in his man/bed. Just so you know, the first time we know of Christians getting around to officially prohibiting same sex acts, in and of themselves, wasn't until the early 4th Century. Christian preachings against the sin of masturbation, a whole lot older.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#11 Dec 28, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
Again, God doesn't hate you personally... but He does hate sin. I don't mean to say this lightly... but if we mess up... we have Jesus Christ as our Advocate. When we repent (turn around and go the right way) then He will forgive us because of what Jesus accomplished. If we continue our strut in pride... ignoring God's loving chastisement then we will perish. Obviously we are free to make our own choices but all choices have consequences.
One day, all of us will kow tow before Christ and give an accounting of ourselves and our choices.
Love Quin
So, God does not hate ****, just those things you imagine **** do, but in the end, you are praying that God hates a part of me, not some existential concept that hangs out when I'm not around. It's your right, God bless America, but I wish you could hear what you are really saying. I don't consider myself to be Christian, but I've read the book, even non-Christians can learn more than a few good things from the teachings of Jesus. It's a damn shame that so many self-professed Christians learn so few of them. If the Bible's right, God's going to be judging the content of your character not mine at that point, whether you've repented for YOUR sins, not whether you have convinced me to repent for mine and whether you have done your best to avoid repeating YOUR sins, not whether or not you convinced me not to repeat mine. You are merely praying that you're right, all statements to the effect that God actually agrees with you, wishful thinking.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#12 Dec 29, 2013
Rick, the basis of your argumentation regarding I Corinthians 6:9, in the homosexuality instance, is that the Apostle Paul does not refer to homosexuality being a sin in general... but rather that Paul only meant it is an euphemism for Temple male prostitution. To be clear, pederasty and older male to male prostitution was provided by certain Greek temples as an ultimate act of worship to Artemis and to other Greek mythological god(s/esses) but both of those homosexual acts did not limit itself to just one particular institution in Greek culture or other cultures. It was unfortunately prevalent throughout society. What Paul wrote here was meant to speak about any "who participate" in homosexuality, Arseno (man) koites (bedder or laying with)... in this instance. If Paul only referred to male prostitutes then he would have only settled with the "male prostitute" greek word "Malakos"....(effemi nate). But he goes on to single out homosexuals by using the Greek word Arsenokoites.

Clearly, a statement that Paul only meant this particular scripture solely to refer to male prostitutes is out of touch with the reality and consistency which is contained throughout the Bible and the rest of Paul's writings for that subject matter. If Paul only referred to male prostitutes then he would have only settled with the "male prostitute" greek word "Malakos"....(effemi nate). But he goes on to single out homosexuals by using the Greek word Arsenokoites:

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR effeminate (malakos - male prostitutes), NOR abusers of themselves with mankind (arsenokoites - man lying with)..."

Regarding your own general view in the non-condemnation of homosexuality... Are you seriously arguing that men having sex with men is not being strictly condemned here by the Apostle? Out of all of his writings on the matter, does Paul now single out a particular use of homosexuality to condone it as invalid and the rest valid? No, of course not... neither did the 70 elders who congregated to write the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint). Regarding the greek word Arsenokoites, which is also used in the Septuagint's Leviticus 20:13 hundreds of years prior to Paul's writings... IF it does not refer to general homosexual sex in I Corinthians 6:9 then what does the same greek word refer to in Leviticus 20:13?

"If a man also lie with mankind (arsenokoite - man lying with), as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination..."

With all due respect, it appears that the basis of your argumentation is without merit and a way to excuse the sin of homosexuality.

Not all sex is a sin, Rick. The notion that your view is that sex between two married (opposite-sex) individuals is a sin and that it is easier for God to forgive those two married individuals for having sex and procreating requires some serious mental gymnastics.

Hebrews 13:4

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#13 Dec 29, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>
See Philo of Alexandria...
Philo of Alexandria, Abraham 135:

"(135) As men, being unable to bear discreetly a satiety of these things, get restive like cattle, and become stiff-necked, and discard the laws of nature, pursuing a great and intemperate indulgence of gluttony, and drinking, and unlawful connections; for not only did they go mad after women, and defile the marriage bed of others, but also those who were MEN LUSTED AFTER ONE ANOTHER, doing unseemly things, and not regarding or respecting their common nature, and though eager for children, they were convicted by having only an abortive offspring; but the conviction produced no advantage, since they were overcome by violent desire; (136) and so, by degrees, THE MEN BECAME ACCUSTOMED TO BE TREATED LIKE WOMEN, and in this way engendered among themselves the disease of females, and intolerable evil; for they not only, as to effeminacy and delicacy, BECAME LIKE WOMEN IN THEIR PERSONS, but they made also their souls most ignoble, corrupting in this way the whole race of man, as far as depended on them. At all events, if the Greeks and barbarians were to have agreed together, and to have adopted the commerce of the citizens of this city, their cities one after another would have become desolate, as if they had been emptied by a pestilence."

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#14 Dec 29, 2013
Philo of Alexandria, The Special Laws 3:37

"Moreover, another evil, much greater than that which we have already mentioned, has made its way among and been let loose upon cities, namely, THE LOVE OF BOYS, which formerly was accounted a great infamy even to be spoken of, but which sin is a subject of boasting not only to those who practise it, but even to those who suffer it, and who, being accustomed to bearing the affliction of being treated like women, waste away as to both their souls and bodies, not bearing about them a single spark of a manly character to be kindled into a flame, but having even the hair of their heads conspicuously curled and adorned, and having their faces smeared with vermilion, and paint, and things of that kind, and having their eyes pencilled beneath, and having their skins anointed with fragrant perfumes (for in such persons as these a sweet smell is a most seductive quality), and being well appointed in everything that tends to beauty or elegance, ARE NOT ASHAMED TO devote their constant study and endeavours to the task of CHANGING THEIR MANLY CHARACTER INTO AN EFFEMINATE ONE."

*******

Rick, did you know that ILGA (the Internat'l Lesbian and Gay Alliance) at one time colluded with NAMbLA (North American Man/boy Love Association)? Yea... they also aided in the work back in 1992 for the push to force the Boy Scouts into accepting of gay scouts and gay scout leaders. ILGA broke away from NAMbLA because the late senator Jesse Helms pushed to block any public funds going to any organization who supported pedophilia. Not only did ILGA break away from NAMbLA for that particular reason but they also had a loss of their U.N. consultancy status for supporting pedophilia which they had regained in the early 2000s...'05 or '06 if memory serves me correctly. NAMbLA isn't popular among gays anymore but they still do show up at gay conventions and parades... and declare themselves a gay organization. Meanwhile, many gay organizations still prod the Boy Scouts to allow gay scout leaders into the troop.

*******

See also, "Queering Elementary Education"

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#15 Dec 29, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>So, God does not hate ****, just those things you imagine **** do, but in the end, you are praying that God hates a part of me, not some existential concept that hangs out when I'm not around. It's your right, God bless America, but I wish you could hear what you are really saying. I don't consider myself to be Christian, but I've read the book, even non-Christians can learn more than a few good things from the teachings of Jesus. It's a damn shame that so many self-professed Christians learn so few of them. If the Bible's right, God's going to be judging the content of your character not mine at that point, whether you've repented for YOUR sins, not whether you have convinced me to repent for mine and whether you have done your best to avoid repeating YOUR sins, not whether or not you convinced me not to repeat mine. You are merely praying that you're right, all statements to the effect that God actually agrees with you, wishful thinking.
God doesn't hate us personally... but He does hate a part of us that is called the sinful nature. If we by choice (Christian or not), unashamedly continue to indulge in that sinful nature post-crucifixion... then yea... we're gonners.

As far as skin color is concerned, it is not a choice. As far as homosexuality is concerned... it is behavioral... and from a biblical perspective it is sexual lust. Any angel, any evangelist, any professed Christian or other messenger who supports or declare that it is not so is accursed, from a scriptural context.

"When tempted, no one should say,“God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death..." James 1

*******

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#16 Dec 29, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
Rick, the basis of your argumentation regarding I Corinthians 6:9, in the homosexuality instance, is that the Apostle Paul does not refer to homosexuality being a sin in general... but rather that Paul only meant it is an euphemism for Temple male prostitution.
Incorrect. The use of the two words in the Septuagint are used as a euphemism for male to male sex in the context of a condemnation of temple prostitution. The reason for Paul's use of them as a single word aren't fully understood. What is known is that the last group on the list weren't singled out as homosexuals or practitioners of homosexual acts until the modern era.
Qu_innocence wrote:
To be clear, pederasty and older male to male prostitution was provided by certain Greek temples as an ultimate act of worship to Artemis and to other Greek mythological god(s/esses) but both of those homosexual acts did not limit itself to just one particular institution in Greek culture or other cultures. It was unfortunately prevalent throughout society. What Paul wrote here was meant to speak about any "who participate" in homosexuality, Arseno (man) koites (bedder or laying with)... in this instance. If Paul only referred to male prostitutes then he would have only settled with the "male prostitute" greek word "Malakos"....(effemi nate). But he goes on to single out homosexuals by using the Greek word Arsenokoites.
In the era and places where Christianity came about, consensual same sex acts could be your religious, civic or military duty and a legitimate way for some folk to earn a living. Pederasty wasn't a religious rite, but a societal custom with a number of different forms in a number of different cultures. It was a relationship that was homosexual in nature but it didn't require the participation of anyone even remotely homosexual. It was your responsibility and his duty. Other forms of homosexual behavior were also accepted for those who took part, from full on sex cults to long term same sex relationships as long as you were at least trying to fulfill your assumed heterosexual responsibilities. Sex also sells real well, in all its flavors. You've got all these religions with all these temples that are just setting empty between services, why not rent out the space? The Jews, as a group, had a problem with the practice, hence their condemnation of it Christian churches would continue to tax prostitutes, if not run themselves, for another four centuries or so. Paul was not using the Leviticus reference to same sex sex, or even one his readers in Corinth would have recognized as one.
Qu_innocence wrote:
Clearly, a statement that Paul only meant this particular scripture solely to refer to male prostitutes is out of touch with the reality and consistency which is contained throughout the Bible and the rest of Paul's writings for that subject matter. If Paul only referred to male prostitutes then he would have only settled with the "male prostitute" greek word "Malakos"....(effemi nate). But he goes on to single out homosexuals by using the Greek word Arsenokoites:(edited for length)
Paul isn't singling out male temple prostitutes and I don't know why you thought I he was. Paul believed abstinence was the Christian's highest calling, your falling short of that is your problem with God. Paul is most likely talking about are those playing by themselves, because that how that verse was being taught for centuries. PS, malakos means soft, like the quality of the fabric in a woman's clothes, not effeminate. It was being taught as a condemnation of those whose morals were soft, not a condemnation of "unmanliness".

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#17 Dec 29, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
<quoted text>God doesn't hate us personally... but He does hate a part of us that is called the sinful nature. If we by choice (Christian or not), unashamedly continue to indulge in that sinful nature post-crucifixion... then yea... we're gonners.
As far as skin color is concerned, it is not a choice. As far as homosexuality is concerned... it is behavioral... and from a biblical perspective it is sexual lust. Any angel, any evangelist, any professed Christian or other messenger who supports or declare that it is not so is accursed, from a scriptural context.
"When tempted, no one should say,“God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death..." James 1
*******
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9
You do realize that those of us who are homosexual don't stop being homosexual when we are not engaging in any of the behaviors you like to associate with us, don't you? If simply breathing while homosexual is an indulgence of that thing that God hates in us, our sinful nature, your God hates us all the freaking time, because it goes where we do. It's not just hanging out somewhere without us for you and of course God to condemn. If you want to believe in a God who hates, that's between you and Him, it's not my problem.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#18 Dec 31, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Incorrect. The use of the two words in the Septuagint are used as a euphemism for male to male sex in the context of a condemnation of temple prostitution. The reason for Paul's use of them as a single word aren't fully understood.. PS, malakos means soft, like the quality of the fabric in a woman's clothes, not effeminate. It was being taught as a condemnation of those whose morals were soft, not a condemnation of "unmanliness".
Happy New Year to you Rick.

1. It is true that Paul does condemn temple prostitution. You mentioned only part of what malakos means... here is the rest of the definition:

Malakos: "... of a catamite, of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man, of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness, of a MALE PROSTITUTE..."

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/l...

* Obviously the malakos is the playing the role of the passive, receptive female.


2. Then separately on purpose, The Apostle uses another word... separate from prostitution to describe homosexuals in general... if Paul or the elders of the Septuagint was just talking about temple prostitution then they would of simply left off with malakos.... or in the elder's case, they would have used malakos but they didn't:

Arsenokoites; one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/l...

*******

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR effeminate (MALAKOS - male prostitutes), NOR abusers of themselves with mankind (ARSENOKOITES - man lying with)..."

Sorry Rick, that's just how it is written.

“Runner John Green disqualified”

Since: Aug 12

4 Bible Scripture on headband

#19 Dec 31, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>You do realize that those of us who are homosexual don't stop being homosexual when we are not engaging in any of the behaviors you like to associate with us, don't you? If simply breathing while homosexual is an indulgence of that thing that God hates in us, our sinful nature, your God hates us all the freaking time, because it goes where we do. It's not just hanging out somewhere without us for you and of course God to condemn. If you want to believe in a God who hates, that's between you and Him, it's not my problem.
Oh, I know that you are attracted to men more than you are to women.

Some people are born more susceptible to certain emotions than others... while you may be stronger than I am in an area that I am weaker or I may be stronger in an area in which you are weaker. If I am more susceptible to being angry... should I follow that passion fully to the end? Or if I was naturally a gifted speaker, can get everything I want by influencing others, should I use that gift to get what I want at the expense of another? No of course not... I would have to bring it under control.

I'm not blaming you at all with the following but just to swing the pendulum to the other side in trying to make a point... but some people (adult men & women) are unfortunately attracted to children more than they are adults... and some are attracted to animals for interspecies sex and some are attracted to fruit for fruit sex more than they are to their own natural kind... but those "feelings" that they may have "doesn't make it right for them to fulfill, nor are they natural desires... they are obviously unnatural. Those lusts are extremely psychological in those cases.

From a spiritual standpoint.... lust, rage, etc... are all part of the sinful nature that was passed down to all of us when Adam allowed sin to enter into the world. Various manifestations of that sin nature can show up randomly and are more pronounced in certain people more than others. Some of the sin manifestations we all commonly share but perhaps not all in the same way or there may be overlap.

One person may be born with a good talent of being an artist but whose weakness is being more susceptible to being a liar, another is born with having initiative but whose weakness is more susceptible to be enraged more easily... etc. Those weaknesses come from the sin nature but that does not mean one should follow through with it but aught to keep it in check. And yes, obviously this is the part that you don't care to hear... but from a biblical standpoint, homosexuality is a part of that sin manifestation that shows up randomly in certain people.

But Jesus came to bring those who come to believe AND TRUST in Him back into right relationship with the Father (God). That is why Jesus said, "If any man wants to be my Disciple, let him deny himself, pick up his cross, AND come follow me..."

If a person wants to follow Jesus what would they have to deny about themselves? Their own way of going about things. What did Jesus mean when He said, "...pick up his cross"? He meant that it would hurt and that they would suffer.... much like a disciplinary act. Like when I had joined the Navy I had to go to boot camp and learn to re-live the way the military wanted me to be. Understandably, it's harder to concentrate when there are distractions in our lives... that is why he military separates us from the population when going first being initiated...

And when we have those first two priorities in check then can we follow Christ.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#20 Dec 31, 2013
Qu_innocence wrote:
Happy New Year to you Rick.
1. It is true that Paul does condemn temple prostitution. You mentioned only part of what malakos means... here is the rest of the definition:
Malakos: "... of a catamite, of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man, of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness, of a MALE PROSTITUTE..."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/l...
* Obviously the malakos is the playing the role of the passive, receptive female.
The Greeks associated malakos with cowardice, weakness, being unmanly. The word took on its expanded meaning as the Jews translated their works from Hebrew to Greek. They attached their own concepts to the word. Paul's use of the word in his epistles as a condemnation of those with lax morals, not of men who were effeminate. Besides, effeminacy doesn't necessarily prove homosexuality, it's not a trait that's unknown among completely hetero men.
Qu_innocence wrote:
2. Then separately on purpose, The Apostle uses another word... separate from prostitution to describe homosexuals in general... if Paul or the elders of the Septuagint was just talking about temple prostitution then they would of simply left off with malakos.... or in the elder's case, they would have used malakos but they didn't:
Arsenokoites; one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/l...
*******
Yet early Christians taught that the last group on Paul's hit list wasn't those who committed same sex acts, but as a condemnation of playing with yourself. It's only in the last century or so that the Christian faith has gotten over some serious hang ups when it comes to masturbation. A while back I bought a set of 1913 YMCA sex education books for boys becoming Christian young men. It's a five book set, about a hundred pages each. There's a paragraph, in one book, telling them to avoid same sex sexual acts and the hazards of not doing so, on the subject of avoiding masturbation and the hazards of not doing so, it's brought up in all five volumes, two of which have full chapters devoted to it. Paul didn't single out same sex acts, he had no need to by having already brought up fornicators, which included same sex acts.
Qu_innocence wrote:
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR effeminate (MALAKOS - male prostitutes), NOR abusers of themselves with mankind (ARSENOKOITES - man lying with)..."
Sorry Rick, that's just how it is written.
That is how it has been tortured into English, NOT how it was being taught by Christians for CENTURIES. It's use as a condemnation of homosexuality and/or homosexual practice, a relatively modern one.

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