Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple...
Liam

Saint Paul, MN

#40274 Mar 30, 2014
I would love more than anything to share my Catholic faith with you all. Not to covert you, but to help you understand why we believe as we do. After all, aren't you a tiny bit curious about what 2 billion Christians believe and why?
The Scriptures are presented beautifully, when read thru the Church. People don't understand what the Bible is or where it came from; how it arrived into a codex book and labeled "the Bible".
It saddens me, that you all have such deep rooted hatred for the Catholic Church, which is fueled by ignorance and paranoia. Sustained by constant slander.
You wanna ask me what the Catholic Church actually teaches or do you wanna tell me? Because you ain't going to succeed telling me what I believe. I know what I believe and why I believe it. Nothing disgusts me more than people who ask me about my faith, i tell them what the Church teaches, they ignore what they just heard, and continue on with their snake-like deceit.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#40275 Mar 30, 2014
Liam wrote:
u have proven to be a liar.
I'm a liar now, because I shared with you the information I've learned about your precious religion?
Liam wrote:
I once suspected that you were a sincere man.
And now, my sincerity is doubted because I don't agree with you in regards to the Roman Catholic religion?
Liam wrote:
Devoted to God. I have the utmost respect for all peoples who seek God with a sincere heart, using the only resources they have. In your case, you used the Bible to search for God. That's ok. I don't believe God would judge a sincere hearted man.
I use only that which is profitable and can be proven by the law and testimony of our Godhead. And like our anointed Savior, I eschew man-made traditions.
Liam wrote:
The Bible has been ....sorta hijacked.... by people since it first became available on October 22, 1454 AD, when the Catholic Church printed it.
You mention this "Gutenberg" Bible as if it were something to be proud of. Yes, it was printed. But, it was still in Latin, which made it virtually impossible to read for the common person. And it was very expensive, so only the wealthy was able to afford it.
Liam wrote:
The first generation after, decided to remove the Church upon which the Bible came, and design their own theology, making up terrible lies about the Catholic Church.
The next generation, after reading the Bible for themselves, learned just how corrupt the Roman Catholic hierarchy was. Had this not been true, a reformation would have never had been pursued.
Liam wrote:
The data is in, the fruits of this strange doctrine of sola scripture has sent truth scattered into a million different directions.
But, man-made traditions that are passed down from one generation to the next are exempt from such mishaps?
Liam wrote:
Anywho, i do not respect someone who hears a truth, then immediately removes reason and logic, and carries on with their slander with even more 'motivation'.
Apologetics and excuses don't equal truth.
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#40276 Mar 30, 2014
When did the pope start wearing red shoes, counting beads and esplain the practice of priests only consuming wine at the Eucharist but the r&f only get a wafer.
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#40281 Mar 30, 2014
"How the Vatican created Islam."
The astonishing story from an ex-Jesuit priest, Alberto Rivera, which was told to him by Cardinal Bea while he was at the Vatican. 2006 04 13

http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports...
lovewithin

Denver, CO

#40284 Mar 30, 2014
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Colosssians 1:13-15
13 He delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love,
14 by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
BY HIM [the father JEHOVAH] SON OF HIS LOVE [JESUS] FIRSTBORN [JESUS]
Firstborn of all creation....means Jesus INHERRITED all creation. "By Him and For Him"

So are you saying ..student...even though the Bible says that Jesus Christ created all things,;;
you don't BELIEVE that Jesus created the heavens and the earth , in the beginning.?

Is it really that hard for you to BELIEVE in Jesus Christ and who He really is ? Jesus was with God... "Let US go down" ....who was GOD talking to there student?

Jesus was not created...student.. Jesus was "In the beginning" ..Jesus created ALL things...making Him (Jesus) the CREATOR.

I can see why the person I know that left your CULT organization....said she found herself "Leaving Jesus Christ " out..... Jesus was slowly leaving her,...that He wasn't really as important as she once thought.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#40285 Mar 30, 2014
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
1 Cor. 15
20 However, now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep [in death].
21 For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man.
22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.

I am embarrassed for you.

You have drank the JW Koolaid.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#40286 Mar 30, 2014
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Colosssians 1:13-15
13 He delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love,
14 by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
BY HIM [the father JEHOVAH] SON OF HIS LOVE [JESUS] FIRSTBORN [JESUS]

Pitiful.
Liam

Saint Paul, MN

#40287 Mar 30, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>I'm a liar now,search who destroyed your Bibles because I shared with you the information I've learned about your precious religion?
<quoted text>And now, my sincerity is doubted because I don't agree with you in regards to the Roman Catholic religion?
<quoted text>I use only that which is profitable and can be proven by the law and testimony of our Godhead. And like our anointed Savior, I eschew man-made traditions.
<quoted text>You mention this "Gutenberg" Bible as if it were something to be proud of. Yes, it was printed. But, it was still in Latin, which made it virtually impossible to read for the common person. And it was very expensive, so only the wealthy was able to afford it.
<quoted text>The next generation, after reading the Bible for themselves, learned just how corrupt the Roman Catholic hierarchy was. Had this not been true, a reformation would have never had been pursued.
<quoted text>But, man-made traditions that are passed down from one generation to the next are exempt from such mishaps?
<quoted text>Apologetics and excuses don't equal truth.
The word of God does not mean the "grammatical copying of letters". The word of God is the MEANING behind the writings. I can demonstrate Catholicism appearing in every decade since Christ. The word of God was safeguarded from generation to generation in unbroken succession. Whether or not laity like you could read Latin is irrelevant. The word of God doesnt filter through you or me. We are not authorities. We can read much of Scripture and learn many truths just from that. Thanks be to God! But the minute we begin to form our own truths, outside of the Church, we are on our own and will need to be held into account shall we begin teaching contrary to what was taught.
In short, you can not present one shred of evidence that your theology was the accepted theology of Christians in every decade since Christ. You see, the word of God has to be:
1. Known
2. Clear
3. Safeguards

So what happened? you can't embrace a lie about a Roman Catholic Church who supposedly tried to confiscate everyones Bibles in an attempt to prevent the Word of God from reaching you. Why? because it didn't happen. This idea is simply not true.
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#40288 Mar 30, 2014
Do you think that at the return of Messiah that the Vatican would offer to send him a fish hat and some red shoes via FedEx along with an invitation for a sit-down pork dinner in Rome - all expenses paid?
lovewithin

Denver, CO

#40289 Mar 30, 2014
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
1 Cor. 15
20 However, now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep [in death].
21 For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man.
22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.
It is actually better for you not to reply to anybody's post than to recite scriptures that don't even relate to the subject.....it is like you close your eyes and let your finger just hit whatever scripture !

If you think you are answering the posts with scripture...your not ! you are a foolish one.

It is quite PITIFUL!!!

yon

Miami Beach, FL

#40290 Mar 30, 2014
Maybe they'd have a parade and they'd let him ride in the pope-mobile.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#40295 Mar 30, 2014
Liam wrote:
But you can't prove Catholic apologetics wrong. No one can. It's bona fide truth. People devote their entire lives to trying.
What bold statements. No disrespect intended, but it's obvious, to me, that you coast through your religion with blinders on. My contention against the Roman Catholic religion is in regards to their gross misinterpretation of Mathew 16:18 to prove their origins while they wholly disregard the more-than-tumultuous and unrighteous history of the Roman Catholic religion. The adherents of the Roman Catholic religion take to the historical whitewash and penumbra, false doctrines, and man-made traditions, like an infant to it's mother's breast.
Liam wrote:
Sure you can insert your own history if you will; your own false accusations, and perhaps that'll satisfy your predicament....But the task of bringing down truth is fruitless. Many have tried and many will try and fail.
And what is truth? Praying to Mary as an intercessor and co-redeemer with our anointed Savior, blatantly contradicting 1Timothy 2:5? The belief that Mary was sinless, blatantly contradicting Romans 6:23? The belief in purgatory, blatantly contradicting Hebrews 10:10? The claim that the Roman Catholic religion is necessary for salvation, blatantly contradicting Hebrews 5:9? The removal of the second commandment in the Decalogue and the dividing asunder of the tenth, blatantly contradicting Deuteronomy 4:2? What is truth, Liam?
Liam wrote:
Cardinal Newman, a once staunch anti Catholic English Protestant, hated the Papacy and the "Roman" Catholic faith. He was an educated man; a Biblical scholar. He sat down to write a book that would debunk the Catholic claims once and for all. He attempted to refute all arguments with truth, so that no one would ever question Protestanism's claims against the CC again.
He ended up throwing his half complete book against the wall and joining the Catholic Church. He simply could not debunk the Catholic Church unless he used deceit. Unless he forced himself to embrace a series of untruths, could he justify not being Catholic.
That was him.
Liam wrote:
"To understand history, is to cease being Protestant"
~Newman
Seinfeld's nemesis?
Liam wrote:
Now I know you are not a Protestant, as you believe that there really wasn't a Church to "protest" against. You believe the Bible didn't need a Church.... it was going to hand copy itself by "real Christians" in spite of the Romans.
Thats a pure fantasy.
Now, you're just being foolish, Liam. I'm going to end my response here.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#40296 Mar 30, 2014
Liam wrote:
I would love more than anything to share my Catholic faith with you all. Not to covert you, but to help you understand why we believe as we do. After all, aren't you a tiny bit curious about what 2 billion Christians believe and why?
If importance and curiosity are determined by numbers in membership, then shouldn't we focus on Islam considering that the membership of Islam has exceeded that of the Roman Catholic religion?

Deuteronomy 4:5-8 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as YHWH my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as YHWH our God is in all things that we call upon him for? And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

With over 4-billion adherents, combined, to Catholicism and Islam, and yet suffering is at an all-time high throughout the world. Where's the appeal, Liam?
Liam wrote:
The Scriptures are presented beautifully, when read thru the Church. People don't understand what the Bible is or where it came from; how it arrived into a codex book and labeled "the Bible".
It saddens me, that you all have such deep rooted hatred for the Catholic Church, which is fueled by ignorance and paranoia.
I don't hate the Roman Catholic religion, or any religion for that matter. Rather, I feel sorrow for all those indoctrinated with false-doctrines and man-made traditions. I feel sorrow for those that live with such delusion and deception.
Liam wrote:
Sustained by constant slander.
I've not made one slanderous remark about the Roman Catholic religion, so.....
Liam wrote:
You wanna ask me what the Catholic Church actually teaches or do you wanna tell me? Because you ain't going to succeed telling me what I believe. I know what I believe and why I believe it. Nothing disgusts me more than people who ask me about my faith, i tell them what the Church teaches, they ignore what they just heard, and continue on with their snake-like deceit.
People should be able to tell what it is you believe by your actions, reactions, and speech. The three should reflect the teachings of our anointed Savior, which derives from the law and testimony found in the Bible.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Psalm 119:9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

Psalm 19:7-8 The law of YHWH is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of YHWH is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of YHWH are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of YHWH is pure, enlightening the eyes.

Traditions? Traditions? We don't need no stinkin' traditions!

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#40297 Mar 30, 2014
Liam wrote:
The word of God does not mean the "grammatical copying of letters". The word of God is the MEANING behind the writings.
The Word of "God" is the means by which all thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech, should derive. By obedience to the Word of "God," one becomes like "God."

2Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Liam wrote:
I can demonstrate Catholicism appearing in every decade since Christ.
By the definition of "universal," I agree. But, if you're referring to the Catholic organization, then neither, you, nor anyone else, can.
Liam wrote:
The word of God was safeguarded from generation to generation in unbroken succession. Whether or not laity like you could read Latin is irrelevant.
It's most relevant when people are commanded to believe certain doctrines that contradict the law and testimony of "God" and have not the ability to read, for themselves, what's actually expected of them.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord YHWH, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of YHWH.
Liam wrote:
The word of God doesnt filter through you or me.
The Word of "God" should filter through each and every believer, primarily by our actions, reactions, and speech.
Liam wrote:
We are not authorities. We can read much of Scripture and learn many truths just from that. Thanks be to God! But the minute we begin to form our own truths, outside of the Church, we are on our own and will need to be held into account shall we begin teaching contrary to what was taught.
And that's my reason for posting biblical quotes that, as I believe, prove why I believe as I do.
Liam wrote:
In short, you can not present one shred of evidence that your theology was the accepted theology of Christians in every decade since Christ.
Sure, I can. But, you already own a Bible.
Liam wrote:
You see, the word of God has to be:
1. Known
2. Clear
3. Safeguards
So what happened? you can't embrace a lie about a Roman Catholic Church who supposedly tried to confiscate everyones Bibles in an attempt to prevent the Word of God from reaching you. Why? because it didn't happen. This idea is simply not true.
No, but the Roman Catholic religion did try to keep the Bible from being translated into tongues spoken and understood by common-folk.
Anonymous

Dawlish, UK

#40298 Mar 30, 2014
Missionary Man wrote:
Dear Friends,
Close scrutiny of the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrinal position on such subjects as the Deity of Jesus, Salvation, the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, the Atonement, etc., shows beyond a doubt that they do not hold to orthodox Christian positions on these subjects. Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is Michael the archangel, the highest created being. This contradicts many Scriptures which clearly declare Jesus to be God (John 1:1,14; 8:58; 10:30). Jehovah's Witnesses believe salvation is obtained by a combination of faith, good works, and obedience. This contradicts countless Scriptures which declare salvation to be received by faith (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5). Jehovah's Witnesses reject the Trinity, believing Jesus to be a created being and the Holy Spirit to essentially be the power of God. Jehovah's Witnesses hold to a ransom theory of the atonement, in which Jesus' death paid only for what mankind lost when Adam sinned - namely, the right to perfect life on earth. Thus, they believe in a faith + works arrangement, where sin and death are freely atoned for by Christ, but physical perfection is attained through personal effort, coupled with faith in Christ.
How do the Jehovah's Witnesses justify these unbiblical doctrines?(1) They claim that the church has, over the centuries, corrupted the Bible, and (2) They have re-translated the Bible in what they call the New World Translation. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society altered the text of the Bible to make it fit their false doctrine – rather than basing their doctrine on what the Bible teaches. The New World Translation has gone through numerous editions, as the Jehovah's Witnesses discover more and more Scriptures that contradict their doctrines.
Jehovah's Witnesses are readily shown to be a cult that is only loosely based upon Scripture. The Watchtower bases its beliefs and doctrines on the original and expanded teachings of Charles Taze Russell, Judge Joseph Franklin Rutherford, and their successors. The Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is the only body in the cult that claims authority to interpret Scripture. In other words, what the Governing Body says concerning any Scriptural passage is viewed as the last word, and independent thinking is strongly discouraged. This is in direct opposition of Paul's admonition to Timothy (and to us as well) to study to show yourself approved of God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of God. This admonition, found in 2 Timothy 2:15, is a clear instruction from God to each of His individual children in the Body of Christ to be like the Berean Christians and search the Scriptures daily to see if the things they are being taught line up with what His Word has to say on the subject.
There is probably no religious group that is more faithful than the Jehovah's Witnesses at getting their message out. Unfortunately, the message is full of distortions, deceptions, and false doctrine. May God open the eyes of the Jehovah's Witnesses to the truth of the Gospel and the true teaching of God's Word.
Blessings,
Missionary Man
Source: gotquestions.org
Im quite sure that the bible states Jesus is the son of god?????
Anonymous

Dawlish, UK

#40299 Mar 30, 2014
Nathan wrote:
Oh Bubba; you are such a fruit cake. Let me educate you, you silly kook, A cult is something that is very very hard to find and very easy to join and very hard to leave. On the contrary, Jehovah's Witnesses are very easy to find, Kingdom Halls are every where, very very hard to join, I can assure you ( and here is a test for you, youmay visit but I assure you, you would not get in so fast) and it is very very easy to be dismissed from if you are not leading a righteous life. You my dear have no knowledge on what is truth as these people are intelligent enough to work for God Almighty himself. so I would be mindful before your pea brain splats out and exposes you for the idiot you are and before you have any knowledge of what you are talking about. Get your facts straight. This is certainly just the opinion of a uneducated nut., who probably is gay and has no regard to truth or Jehovah God's requirements in the first place.<quoted text>
bubba ive been studying the bible independently for over 20 years and am now thinking of becoming one is that uneducated or brainwashed?
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#40300 Mar 30, 2014
Liam wrote:
I can demonstrate Catholicism appearing in every decade since Christ.
Matt 13 The Parable of the Weeds

24 Jesus told them another parable:“The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said,‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him,‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered,‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
Liam

Saint Paul, MN

#40301 Mar 30, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>What bold statements. No disrespect intended, but it's obvious, to me, that you coast through your religion with blinders on. My contention against the Roman Catholic religion is in regards to their gross misinterpretation of Mathew 16:18 to prove their origins while they wholly disregard the more-than-tumultuous and unrighteous history of the Roman Catholic religion..
Ok..... how can I be clear... you erroneously believe that the so called "Roman Catholic religion". Wait, I can't even say that title like that because it doesnt make sense. "Roman Catholic religion"?? What is that? How is it different than the Byzantine Catholic religion or the Ethiopian Catholic religion? There is no separate Church called "Roman"Catholic. "Roman" describes a diocese and liturgical rite, not a separate Church. I don't entirely blame you for your error as most western English speaking peoples have slowly come to identify the Catholic Church with the adjective "Roman" and that's that.

Anyway, you erroneously believe that the Catholic Church in Rome was presented with a codex Bible; it was labeled "Word of God" and they opened it and read it. They came upon Mathew 16: 18 and thunk 'this verse says Peter was the first Pope!!" That scenario is impossible. The Bible didn't come to us like that.

Mathew 16:18 physically happened. It was an action put into motion. Not a verse that was written and later organized around. The Church came first, then the Bible. Before all the NT manuscripts were completed, men like Clement of Rome were already running the Church. He was ordained Bishop by Peter. See, Clement didn't read Mathew 16:18, he was the product of Mathew 16:18..
Liam

Saint Paul, MN

#40302 Mar 30, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
And what is truth? Praying to Mary as an intercessor and co-redeemer with our anointed Savior, blatantly contradicting 1Timothy 2:5? The belief that Mary was sinless, blatantly contradicting Romans 6:23? The belief in purgatory, blatantly contradicting Hebrews 10:10? The claim that the Roman Catholic religion is necessary for salvation, blatantly contradicting Hebrews 5:9? The removal of the second commandment in the Decalogue and the dividing asunder of the tenth, blatantly contradicting Deuteronomy 4:2? What is truth, Liam?
.
Let me first point out the lies above. Then maybe sometime this week I'll address the Marian doctrines in scripture as well as purgatory.

1. We do not believe Mary is co redeemer.

2. We do not believe that the "Roman" Catholic religion is necessary for salvation. However, denying the divinity of Jesus Christ puts a person pretty far from truth.

3. We did not remove the second commandment.

Ok Brother Lee, people spread an awful lot of deceit about the CC.
Liam

Saint Paul, MN

#40307 Mar 30, 2014
To understand teachings about Mary you have to understand what she was and who was in her body.

In the old covenant, the word of God was on tablets and housed in a gold ark. This ark was so Holy, that no Jew would dare look at it much less enter it.

In the new covenant, the word of God became flesh and entered the world through another ark. This time the ark wasn't a gold chest, it was a human person. Mary. The belief of the early Church (and held to this day) was that God being perfect and without sin, couldn't have procreated with sin to create the perfect manifestation of Himself. Jesus. God and sin are opposite.

Joseph, being a devout Jew, would have understood that His wife was the Holy Ark that bore forth the word of God, and knowing the scriptures well, Joseph wouldn't dare "enter the ark" if you know what I mean. God didnt call Joseph to be Mary's husband to procreate. Joseph's calling was much bigger than a normal spouse. He was to protect the ark so the Holy Mother could give birth and nurture the word of God.

* That's how you get the jist of how teachings of Mary derived from the early Church.

** to demand an exact Bible verse that explicitly states these things is pointless. The Bible didnt come to us like that.

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